What's this whole deal with Danzig?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaipėda_Region

No.
If Poles bend, they would end like Bohemia.
At best they would be forced to cede rest of Corridor and part of Silesia plus Posen which would kill any chance to stand on their own legs and make them fully dependable on German Industry.
Then they would be used as cannon fodder on the East front.
For some promises on gain on the East9and we know how good Germans are at keeping promises).
Poles would end on the losing side if Germany lose and even if they win they will become protectorate exploited by Germans with no chance to rise again.

Das Memeland is where Memes come from.

>give Poland all of Ukraine and Belarus in exchange for the entire corridor
>Poland now hueg, has all dat top tier soil and access to Azov
>Germany and Prussia connected again, now with a nice Polish buffer to keep Ivan away

Why couldn't Germans just be chill?

Its more likely than you think. High ranking NAZIs almost uniformly admired the autocratic right-wing Polish government and multiple times offered alliance in return for just the corridor and a war with Russia in which Germany gets the Baltics and Poland got its prized Federalization with Belarus and Ukraine.
In that situation, with France being stalwart in its defensive treaties with Poland, good relations between Germany and a Slav Federation would be good if and when the Powers returned the colonies to Germany.

Because being the best at everything for 50 years makes you think you deserve better than an East European tin can nationality.

If you didn't notice, continuous concessions is what started WW2 in the first place.

Germany should've gotten an ultimatum from the Allies the moment they openly said they were going to invade Czechoslovakia.

That's basically what they had worked out with Pilsudski, but Beck took over and he was just a real asshole and refused to negotiate. Hitler just said "fuck it, they haven't stopped me before now" and invaded.

What really irks me is that Beck was the best diplomat left in Germany when the nepotism and internal politics had turned the department into the worst in the civilized world, and he fucked up bad on this one.

Well, except for Hitler's crusade except Slavdom.

it's pronounced "meme-lul" not memel

'conceded Austria' he says

I don't care if you think hitler wanted to gas all non whites and establish a global reich, but he did invite poland out of 5 countries originally to sign the anti-commitern pact

Someone's bought the comic book villain Hitler headlines. Despite his demeanor, before 1939 Hitler did act on advice of informed opinion and didn't use his book of rants as policy. That came after already realizing the means to fulfill them.
Hur-dur, history should be read backwards.

His question was could war be averted not if Poland could switch sides

"World War II" being as such is dependent on France and GB's involvement. France pussing out in any event less than Germany's invasion of Poland is historical fact. Without Poland, France did not have the strength to dare confront Germany and would not have done so without GB at any rate, and GB would have likely ended up funding Germany and Poland in a theoretical war against the Soviet Union.
Read a book nigger.

they had acess to Danzig familia.
From the Eastern Prussia. What you wanted to say
>ey yo Polan gib us corridor
>nope
>k, mane no hard feelings
>"Breaking news: Polan super invaded because they said no to corridor"

>if Germany got all of its land taken off them because of versailles treaty

*fxd

And no, the soviets were going to start a war anyway

Hitler didn't want the colonies back. He tried to use them as a bargaining chip to get an alliance with Britain. Then when Britain and France actually offered to start talks to return the colonies Ribbentrop had to awkwardly refuse after asking for them for months.

>alliance
He was pretty much asking if it wanted to become a substate.

I hear this in context for multiple states antebellum ww2, what the fuck does it even mean? It sounds like some napoleon tier ego to excuse not allying with anyone

Yeah, that exact instance would support your claim except the decision was due to the fallout of negotiations with Poland in 1937, after the death of Pulanski and the diplomatic nightmare that ensued.
A lot of things happen between the sentences found in textbooks, you should read something not written by Jews from Harvard or U. of Cal. I suggest Munich: Price of Peace or the first biographies of Daladier and Neville Chamberlain.

Which tends to be the norm of less advanced neighbors of nations with better military traditions,technological capabilities and three times the population.

Care to make a point among those terrible memes? Perhaps you'd like to postulate that conceding Danzig would prevent Hitler from rising to power.

If the border were negotiated between exclusively German and Polish elements, it is unlikely the NAZI party itself would have existed. The reactionary element would have gone to DNVP and developed into a more pliant conservative platform. That's something all but French observers agreed on until WWII.

Makes sense. Defining a timeframe is often helpful when dealing with hypotheticals.

MOTHER
TELL YOUR CHILDREN NOT TO WALK MY CORRIDOR

Yeah, but why would they choose to become Germany's bitch when they though they had France and England backing them?

Nah, not really. Danzig wasn't really that important to Poland, since their only privilige there was protection of Polish-Kashubian minority and a military base on Westerplatte. However, there were also minorities in Germany proper, which did not face outright discrimination (such as in Upper Silesia and Masuria regions). The city of Gdynia was also a major port back in 1939 and it could acommodate small Polish Navy. Truth be told, as retarded was Polish diplomacy after Piłsudski death, it hoped that France will go to defend Poland in case of war, making it short and unimportant.

However, giving in to the German demands could result in them taking Silesia (which was the heart and soul of Polish industry) and very developed Greater Poland region (Poznań and adjacent areas). Perhaps, if that proposal would come from someone with better reputation than Hitler, or before Munich, they would give up Free City of Danzig and we would see a big alliance to defeat Soviet Union. On the other hand, if Polish diplomacy was a bit better, we could see an early war in defence of Czechoslovakia, which would be pretty damn close and end up like the Winter War - with small territorial concessions, but a prestige and diplomatic victory for Poland and Czechoslovakia.

All in all, I think that Hitler was retarded not to just take Danzig after the invasion of Poland and try to peace out with France. That would make for a strong Germany, without making everyone hate him. I could even believe that other countries would agree to deport the Jews, and attack Soviet Union when it was the weakest.

I believe that if nothing else, France would have probably agreed to deport Jews. France's upper classes were anti-Semitic to the core.

>Beck was the best diplomat left in Germany
Beck was Polish.

Oh shit, you're right. I was thinking of a German Beck who did most of his work in Italy.
Now I have someone else to read about, thanks.

The importance of Danzig can not be understated inasmuch as its importance was stated by Polish plenipotentiaries. Sure, in the form of the Free State, it just blocked Germany from a quarter million military aged men and provided a customs united port of medium importance to Baltic trade, but the defensive width aspect and the pointlessness of a Germany divided by less than fifty miles can't be understated. Without Danzig, the corridor ceases to make sense.

No it actually doesn't

Germany had lost every war it fought in, and was consistently shown to be a tin can nationality itself

Because obviously that was the wrong horse to back.
The NAZI led rearmament was a total clusterfuck and both organization and R&D never even compared to Reichswehr standards and still the Wehrmacht steamrolled Poland with 1.5 to 1 numbers. The difference of quality unit per unit were so enormous, that the standard of "impressive" instances of Polish resistance is holding unit to unit for over a week. That's pathetic even by early war, high mobility standards.

Many Poles probably like him for saying "fuck you" to Germany, but he's probably one of the biggest reasons WWII happened. He was a huge entitle cunt and Pilsudski was a lot cooler.

Tin cans don't turn the entire world on its head every time they get uppity. Germany acting as it did is on the official policy of England more than Germany, and Napoleon III before Wilhelm II or Bismarck.

I'm reading "Bitter Peace" because my understanding of diplomacy leading up to WWII is extremely favorable to Germany and while I am Biodeutsche and know more of its history and language than anything else, I value balance above all. Even considering this, Pilsudski is a flawed, admirable character in a pile of divisive assholes who led Poland to its non-inevitable failure. If anything I'm becoming more biased in favor of Germany.

underrated post

>Why couldn't Germans just be chill?

because they believed poles to be an inferior race

Yeah, Germany wasn't the "good guy", but there's no such thing in history. It's a real double-think problem that people will say that there are no good and bad guys in history, and then call Germany or the USSR the bad guy. What I always wonder when people think of WWII as some noble battle for Europe is why Britain declared war on Germany for the partition of Poland, but not Russia.

No, just Prussians. Hitler admired the Poles and speculated on the possibility of blending the races to create a more powerful people.

>What is Drang Nach Osten
>What is Generalplan Ost

Germanification only applied to the most Aryan Poles, user, not all of them.

>That's basically what they had worked out with Pilsudski

Bollocks.

Hitler did have nice things to say about Pilsudski (whether it was honest or not is another matter).

Pilsudski on the other hand literally wanted to make war on Germany in 1934 and only settled on signing a non-aggression pact with Germany after the French told him it's out of the question.

>If Poland conceded to the Danzig corridor, would WWII have been averted?
Well Czechoslovakia conceded Sudetenland to stop the war...

No. German economy was unsustainable without conquest.

Yes

de.metapedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Zollinspektorenstreit

>"We will force this war upon the germans whether they like it or not" - Pan-slavist polish imperialist generals at the time

de.metapedia.org/wiki/Chronologie_antideutscher_Gewalt_von_Polen
de.metapedia.org/wiki/Polnische_Verbrechen_an_Volksdeutschen_zwischen_1918_und_1939
de.metapedia.org/wiki/Polen_als_Aggressor_1918–1938
de.metapedia.org/wiki/Polnischer_Imperialismus
de.metapedia.org/wiki/Polenfeldzug#Eskalation_durch_polnische_Grenzprovokationen
de.metapedia.org/wiki/Abstimmungsgebiet_Oberschlesien#Polnischer_Terror
de.metapedia.org/wiki/Polnische_Paßkrise
de.metapedia.org/wiki/Polnische_Konzentrationslager
de.metapedia.org/wiki/Oder-Neiße-Linie#Polnische_und_panslawistische_Grenzvorstellungen_vor_dem_Zweiten_Weltkrieg

>.de

hmmmmmm

No, Russia was preparing to invade Western Europe regardless. Conceding Poland for either side wouldn't make a difference. They wanted a war in Europe. Russia received no condemnation for invading the other side of Poland.

>Pan-slavist
>polish
does not compute

psheks fucking hate panslavism

"polish panslavist" is like a nazi jew

Nice meme

Actually many nationalists have liked that idea.

Yeah, Russian nationalists.

Poland needed a port.

because they thought that the peace of versailles was too insulting and because they didnt like the democracy and wanted a strong leader instead

This.

>m-m-maybe if there had been one more round of appeasement everything would have been worked out
no. get a brain, op.

>If Poland conceded to the Danzig corridor, would WWII have been averted?
>implying Hitler would of stopped at Danzig
war was inevitable with the war path Germany was on, the question was what war was going to be caused by

I feel like this is the wehracuck version of proof 9/11 was an inside job

what if Czechoslovkia went against the Allies appeasement plan and ignored the demands to succeed the Sudetenland? they were already mobilized and ready for a defensive war. what would happen, would they get any help? what would France and England do since they defied their orders?

None of what you wrote is true. Prussian kings were compelled to learn Polish until Wilhelm II, who was raised by a liberal father who thought Germany to be for only the German language; and the Kulturkampf (a misnomer in this case) sought to buy out Polish land owners rather than seize their assets, meaning they treated them as equal citizens if undesirable ones.

Because he thought the NAZI's rise to power, like the rest of Europe, to be a sign Germany, diplomatically, was closed for business. He had nothing but good relations with Germany after the establishment of borders.

>Because obviously that was the wrong horse to back
It's obvious to you because you have the power of hindsight, it's not so obvious to the people actually making the decision

Nazi Germany was a paper tiger.

Had France called Hitler's bluff when he remilitarized the Rhineland, or when he annexed Czechoslovakia, there would have been no ww2.

Poles offer join them but Pepiks refuse and surrender.

There was no bluff about the Rhineland, everyone knew Germany would have been helpless do do anything if there was an intervention against them, it's just that the prevailing sentiment in France was still characterised by WW1 war weariness.

Yes.

>conceded austria

No

>The unforgivable sin of Hitler's Germany was to develop a new economic system by which the international bankers were deprived of their profits.

Sort of true, except that system was literally to take on shitloads of debt, spend it all on the military then not pay it back and declare war on everyone.

You've got to use Jude's resources against them

Reminder that Germany forced the Greeks to give them half a billion Reichsmarks' worth of loans during the occupation and never paid them back.

I don't really get those who think the Poles should have trusted the promises of the Germans, for all I know the Germans have done nothing else than shown their promises were worth less than the ink and paper they used to write it with.
Am I missing something?

Reminder that Greece has gone into default for half of its history, and reparation money would have changed nothing in averting their recent crisis.

Bollocks. The Greeks only defaulted once in the 20th century. They did it in 1932 and so did Germany. As I mentioned the Germans also bailed on their debts when WW2 started and again in 1948 via the currency reform and Marshall plan.

The Greeks have defaulted quite a few times in the 19th century but so did most of Europe including the individual German states.

>As I mentioned the Germans also bailed on their debts when WW2 started and again in 1948 via the currency reform and Marshall plan.

The elaborate on that, this was a white hot issue between 1948 and 1953 when the London Agreement postponed the settlement of post-1933 German debt to most countries (including Greece) until German unification.

Then after German unification the Germans refused to consider it.

It's not a question of reparations but of Germany bailing on their debts.

Also the Greeks had to go into debt themselves to give the Germans their money during WW2 and they've actually paid THAT back.

No, it was common knowledge to all of Europe how pitiful the French military was for the entire 15 years immediately before the war. Czechs knew any resistance was pointless after their fortifications were annexed because literally no stock could be put into French capabilities, against Germany or any European power. Even Belgium and Italy stood 30/70 chances against them.

>give Poland all of Ukraine and Belarus in exchange for the entire corridor

Except this would have never happened, as Hitler also wanted all of Ukraine and Belarus in addition to all of Poland.

>If the border were negotiated between exclusively German and Polish elements

GERMANY: "Give me everything."
POLAND: "No, how about this and that instead?"
GERMANY: "Or how about... give me everything?"
POLAND: "Wait... WTF?"
GERMANY: "Blitzkrieg time!"

Here's the peace deal offered to Poland.

France and Britain offered Poland Guarantees of independence after this and Poland then refused to negotiate.

Britain wasn't really trying to tell Germany to leave Poland alone or tell Poland not to negotiate but it happened. Supposedely Hitler sent a message to Britian that ended up sitting on somebodys desk in London by accident and Hitler then assumed that British government ignored it rather than they had not actually received it.

The Polish government had been friendly with Germany for most of the 30s and Hitlerpersonally had praised them but leadership changed and the government of 1939 was not friendly with Hitler.

In Mein kampf Hitler says that his Eastern Policy is to emulate the Teutonic Order, who historically conquered and claimed Prussia and Danzig.

It could be argued that Hitler's eastern Liebensraum was limited to this corrider and the Sudenland.

Hitler doesn't really mention Poland as a target for destruction at all in Mein Kampf and only notes it as a French military march between Russia and Germany which would make a German-Russian alliance strategically useless for defending Germany from France.

I think it is very very likely that had Poland played ball with Germany an anti-communist block would have formed with Poland, Italy, Germany, Finland and others in eastern Europe.

Hitler DOES state in Mein Kampf that Russia has a very large amount of land relative to its population and that Germany does need more farmland if it wants to feed its people on its own.

It is therefore my theory that Hitler absolutely wanted Danzig or war but wasn't offended by the Polish state the way Prussian/Russia were for most of history ( t. Czar Alexander of Russia for example).
Poland was only trouble to Germany in that it was allied with France.

Hitler was not in anyway hostile to Great Britian or France but was wary of France.

All of this mostly stems from Mein Kampf,aka 10 years before WWII.

France was the most anti-Semitic country and probably currently is.

>It could be argued that Hitler's eastern Liebensraum was limited to this corrider and the Sudenland.
It could not be. All other points are largely correct.
Politically, lebensraum meant emptying the existing area of Germany of at least 1/3 of its inhabitants to ensure healthy societal values. You cannot fit an additional 30 million people into areas with no major cities (excepting Danzig).

Because Poland was being belligerently uncooperative due to their enormous ego-boost from the allies guarantee. Hitler postponed the invasion 3 times in order to keep trying negotiation until his generals started throwing junker hissy fits because they had not played war in a few decades and he finally gave the order.

To be fair, Poland was going through the same nationalistic phase just about every country was at the time. the annexation of Slovak lands and push to remove non-polish cultural elements wasn't that different from contemporary Germany's actions.

Trying to make them his vassal is the same as being offered an alliance?

The city's name is Gdansk,it was even founded and originally built by Poles for God's sake.

Better military traditions?Friend,the Germans have formed their first country at the very end of the 19th century and before that,the Holy Roman Empire and it's regional lackey,the Teutonic Order have never succeeded in conquering Poland,in any of her forms,for that matter.

Germans knew very well that the Poles are going to refuse such demands,they've only needed their formal refusal in order to get the proper justification for their impending invasion.

>Uses Metapedia as a source,even though Metapedia articles have absolutely no traceable sources in it's sections whatsoever.

They would've held the line,considering all the heavy fortifications on their northern borders.