Would Fascism have succeeded if Western capitalist countries stopped their meddling and trying to make it fail?

>muh commies
Communists being dumb shits too does not invalidate the fact that Fascist economic policy essentially amounts to getting a loan from a bank to buy guns to go back and rob the same bank.

Better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.

this is the dumbest shit i've ever read.

do you know what male lions do? they don't do fucking shit. they're neets. the females do all the hunting, the females raise the children, the females make sure everyone is safe. male lions ain't shit.

furthermore the life of a lion is boring as shit. i don't think the life of a goat is all that much more interesting, but you sure as hell see more interesting things in a hundred years than you do in 24 hours.

this saying is very much representative of fascism, in my opinion.

when you first read through it you think: "oh, that makes sense. i'd rather live one day with pride than live a hundred years as a slave animal!", but then you use your brain for just a split-second and you realize it's a retarded idea. like fascism.

you might think you're alexander the great for a day, but I get to be diogenes for a century.

autism

>the idea of an external enemy
They don't just use the idea. In most cases they actively seek one and fight them.

The USSR may have gone "m-muh capitalists" and built up a large army, they still didn't hop the into West Germany nukes flying the first chance they got.

When fascists aren't seeking an external war, they're more likely to focus on the internal enemy of communism.

Why do fascists always resort to MUH COMMIES like anyone likes them too, or that there's actually a significant number of fascists, and the only other viewpoint from theirs is communism?

Franco and Mussolini prove you wrong

It's a quote. It has less to do with the reality of nature and more to do with perceived reality. Most people perceive sheep to be meek and lions to be strong. Nothing else matters.

Autist.

Also, the original quote makes no reference to gender. Your "point" on male/female lions is worthless.

>le fascism stared the war meme

Because so they are so delusional that they think everyone making fun of them must be communist shills.

No, Fascist countries failed because Autarky is a pretty fucking stupid policy.

;~)

No it's not.

Yes it is. Having no trade outside your nations borders never works out. You lose markets in exchange for a fucked up economic clusterfuck.

>implying Western capitalist countries AREN'T fascist

If a government passes legislation that benefits corporations, bails out corporations, and/or receives products from corporations, then that government is fascist.

>"Fascism is the marriage of corporation and state."
t. Mussolini

>They don't just use the idea. In most cases they actively seek one and fight them.

pretty much this.

the spenglerian idea of strength through struggle was critical in building nazi ideology. spengler argued that the history of human existence is not a history of time but rather a history of culture. through the aeons the way that culture has provided stability and prosperity for its people was through victorious conflict. kulturkampf, volkskrieg, these are all ideas that would be fundamental in Nazi thinking. also refer to junger's storm of steel, the notion being that even though the first world war was a horrific defeat, the german people found a sense of national brotherhood and cultural unity through the sacrifice that they had never had before.

in the discussion of facism people tend to forget that a fundamental element of it is a highly militarized, martial society. there were plenty of radical right-wing thinkers in the inter-war period that held the idea that through a state of constant marital struggle was how society and culture was going to flourish.

>Having no trade outside your nations borders never works out
That's why you invade Europe and expand your borders
>You lose markets in exchange for a fucked up economic clusterfuck
In a WW you can't rely on trade because every country will pick a side. It is better top be independent

i was only pretend to be retard etc

This.

Spain (my country), had to ask for financial help to the US in 1956 because autarchy fucked the rest of the economy that survived after the civil war.

Franco continued in power, but not with real convinced fascists, but with technocrats.

>Being this ignorant
Corporations meant something else in that context. They were organisms supervised by the state where business owners and employees discussed their interests.

>Can't find a single communist regime that didn't go genocidal on its own population either.
that's WHY THEY BOTH SUCK MOTHERFUCKER

>force people into makework and the military

>we don't say 'slave labor', we say 'zero unemployment'

>the spenglerian idea of strength through struggle

wat

Oswald Spengler?

precisely him.

>In his later works, such as Man and Technics (1931) and The Hour of Decision (1933), Spengler expanded upon his "spiritual" theory of race and tied it to his metaphysical notion of eternal war and his belief that "Man is a beast of prey".

it's important to note that spengler himself was not a nazi (at least IIRC), but his writing had a major influence on the inter-war radical right.

All ideologys require boogymen to propel it

Socialism - Capitalist Bourgeois
Liberalism - Totalitarians, oppressors of individual rights

Corporatism =! Corporate Bussiness

The Fangalists never had the oppurtuntiy to implement their social-economic policies under Franco, Spain always remained a conservative capitalist state so it's not a example really of Fascist performance

It's just from my reading (admittedly not in the German), it didn't seem like it would support the right wing.

There is the division between 'kultur' and 'zivilization', which the radical right (and left) are the only ones to really explore, the mainstream ignores the distinction.

>Fascist economic policy essentially amounts to getting a loan from a bank to buy guns to go back and rob the same bank
kek, so true. I hadn't thought of it this way before.

You don't understand what he means by corporation.

Then go on...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

>That's why you invade Europe and expand your borders
Then you get rekt and wonder why everyone hates you.

>Spain always remained a conservative capitalist state
So you agree it was fascist then

Are you 12?

It would also have to be Christian for it to be fully fascist...

oh yeah Spain is Christian.

Just kill yourself

The corporations user was talking about are certainly a form of corporation that corporatism talks about.

The difference seems to be between some countries allowing an unlimited number of corporations to be established, and some assigning a limited number of corporations to specific sectors/fields/industries.

Are you? Mussolini states perfectly that fascism doesn't seek to usurp the capitalist system, rather to bring it under the arm of the state.

Conservative, capitalist, corporatist, Christian, it's pretty much standard fascist growing conditions.

German 'fascism' is the real outlier, and I blame protestantism.

It's a shitty quote, who's thematic elements are based off a dubious understanding of nature. And it goes on to say basically nothing other than:

AssERRT YOURSelf! yAY!!!1

I could have gotten that message from thinking maybe 5 minutes about my day to day. No dime-store Platonism is necessary, no matter how desperately those who use them try to be deep.

>what is the second italo-abyssinian war

To be fair, both of you are wrong. Western Capitalist Democracies stayed entirely neutral during the Civil War.

Franco wasn't a fascist

...

For everyone who responded seriously to this thread: it's nothing but a parody of .

But fascism is Western capitalism.

Also this.

Define capitalism.

Why do people forget that Ford, IBM, and a shit ton of other corporations/capitalists aided in the development of fascist countries because of their fascism?

So Fascism was meddling itself. Wow I never knew that.

Ford also aided in the development of communist countries, though.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ

>

In May 1929 the Soviet Union signed an agreement with the Ford Motor Company.[1] Under its terms, the Soviets agreed to purchase $13 million worth of automobiles and parts, while Ford agreed to give technical assistance until 1938 to construct an integrated automobile-manufacturing plant at Nizhny Novgorod.

Private ownership of the means of production, operated for capital accumulation via a wage labor and market relations economy.

Capitalist systems are a prerequisite for fascism, ya dunce. Nearly all the western capitalist societies had a fascist movement, it's just that they didn't kindle the same way the German and Italian strands did.

Fascism is the wedding of corporate and state power. The state is armed and buttressed by industry, while industry is ravished by state sponsored endorsements, investments, contracts and legal support.

>Private ownership of the means of production

Doesn't exist anymore.

Capitalism as an historical phenomenom existed in the XIXth to the early 20th century.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

>Private ownership of the means of production
Is it always capitalism when there is private ownership?

>Doesn't exist anymore.
Honestly kys

Yes, always.

Even when 0.00000000001% of the ownership is private?

Are you talking about absolute monarchies? Feudal states didn't have private ownership of the means of production. Hence early capitalist theorists (classical liberals) arguments for a new economy based on private property.

No. I'm asking whether or not it would still be capitalist if 0.00000000001% of the ownership is private, I don't care about feudalism.

>Hence early capitalist theorists (classical liberals) arguments for a new economy based on private property.

There were no "arguments for a new economy". Private property developed in England in the 16th and 17th centuries as a result of political changes (most important one was the Dissolution of the Monasteries) and only later classical liberals like John Locke and Adam Smith began to analyze and rationalize what happened, the labor theory of property from which both capitalism and communism are derived is an example of such rationalization.

One of the greatest insights of neo-reaction is it's rejection of Lockean property theory.

>The enlightenment failure has been to begin its analysis of property from the problem of justification [...] To depart from an axiom of legitimate original property acquisition through work, as Locke does, is already proto-Marxist in implication, resting on philosophically hopeless metaphor, such as that of ‘mixing’ labor with things. It is property that defines work (over against non-productive behavior), not the inverse [...] ‘Property’ — as a social category — is a legitimation of control. It cascades conceptually from sovereignty, and not from production [...] Property, in the end, is not sociopolitical recognition of rights, but keys. What you can lock and unlock is yours. The rest is merely more or less serious talk, that only contingently compiles.

Nick Land

This is why I say private property doesn't exist, since sovereignty ultimately rests with the central government. Private usufruct, even of the biggest businessmen, is only possible through buying political influence from the central government, who is the true owner.

That's why I joke that the Brazilian banker Daniel Dantas is the first private proprietor in centuries. Since the government cannot obtain access to his obtain access hard-drives, all the information and the "means of production" therein is truly his.

I see. It's a strange question because at that percentage private ownership simply doesn't exist. The means of production is exactly that, value productive private property. If 0.00000000001% of the means of production is privately owned, even if he can somehow produce a commodity he wouldn't have buyers since 99+% of the means of production is commonly owned.

>Nick Land

>There were no "arguments for a new economy".
No, Adam Smith is pretty clear about opposing mercantilism for a liberal economy, granted mercantilism was a downward trend by that time.

And that's not what private property means, it just means it's owned by someone and they have rights to it. I could come into your house and murder you and take all of your things but just because I'm able to do so doesn't mean it's not private property. Similarly, governments can sometimes seize property and that may be a kind of philosophical conflict to some, but it doesn't change that the same government enshrines the right of private property. Also there are other aspects of capitalism.

10/10 bait.
Nobody is this stupid.

What did he do wrong?

Nothing.
He was also not a "fascist".

But he admired mussolini.
He went fash during the 30s and went back later on in order to not be outrightly called out as one of the last fascist standing.

>In Spain, where the western capitalist democracies directly opposed the fascist movement, the fascists won.

The Soviet Union was the largest contributor to the Republican Spanish, IDK what you're talking about.

He wasn't immortal
>his smile, gone forever

Will he come back and save us?

You're already waiting for someone

remove dirty mouro pls

>Would Fascism have succeeded if Western capitalist countries stopped their meddling and trying to make it fail?

Western capitalist countries loved that shit.

clearest and most concise summary of fascism ever put to print

Absolutely nothing. He did far more good for Portugal than bad, and as said, he wasn't actually a Fascist. He's an excellent example of a benevolent dictator.

Well shit I guess this one rule of law invalidates the day-to-day operation of every major business across the world.

You sure schooled them with your wikipedia knowledge!

this

remember henry ford and his blueprint book that created the reich and ford continued to lead them to greatness

ford got plenty of reich medals for all his efforts, much like GM and the other corporations

nazi germany would not have existed and not have been able to kill millions without corporate support and partnership from GM, Ford, IBM, Carnegie, Rockefeller...

why do we ignore and tolerate the fatal, genocidal dictatorship of corporations?

>General Motors and Ford creates the motorized nazi war machine
>IBM partners with nazis to efficiently run the extermination of millions in Europe with IBM systems
>The Carnegie Institution and its sponsored movement spent millions to propagate American eugenic theories in post-WWI Germany, financing race science programs in universities and official institutions. These included the idea that Jews must be eliminated.
>Rockefeller funded Hitler’s chief raceologist Otmar Verschuer and his insatiable twin experimentation programs.

U.S. oil companies sold oil to Nazi Germany

it is well known that corporations exterminated billions in the last 200 years.

edwinblack.com/
nazinexus.com/

>GM's Opel was the largest car and truck maker in the Third Reich. When Hitler came to power, his nation was still primarily a horse-drawn country. From the outset, GM consciously mass produced cars and truck for the German military, becoming a major and indispensable spear of Nazi rearmament. This included the Blitz truck which became the mainstay of the Blitzkrieg that conquered Europe. GM concealed its American control of Opel through special executives committees and board directorates. After the War, GM took all the profit, including that gained from slave labor. After a Congressional investigation, GM tried to obscure the facts and pressured Washington about a special report on the company's activities. To this day, the company frustrates research efforts into its protracted and profitable involvement in Nazi genocide

>General Motors, James D. Mooney, received the Grand Cross of the German Eagle for his distinguished service to the Reich. "Nazi armaments chief Albert Speer told a congressional investigator that Germany could not have attempted its September 1939 Blitzkrieg of Poland without the performance-boosting additive technology provided by Alfred P. Sloan and General Motors".[20][21][22] During the war, GM's Opel Brandenburg facilities produced bombers JU-88, trucks, land mines and torpedo detonators for Nazi Germany

>confiscate Jewish assets. IBM solution: all banks and financial institutions were run by IBM cards which could be programmed to seek out the Jewish names and their accounts for seizure. Fourth: ghettoize the Jews. IBM Solution: cross-match families from their existing residences into crowded dilapidated slums so that in a single day, thousands of people could be efficiently transferred from point A to point B. Fifth, deport the Jews to camps. IBM solution: most of the railroads in Europe were routed by IBM punch cards. Create special depots to ensure that trains with cattle cars were made available to transport Jews to camps. Inbound, these trains were crowded with helpless humans. Returning, they were empty.
>IBM systems efficiently identify, track, manage, transport, and route of millions of prisoners to extermination
>IBM systems maintained efficient scheduling of trains transporting millions to camps

ibmandtheholocaust.com/

it was not mere business they actually made germany great again

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_occupation_of_the_Dominican_Republic_(1916–24)

>United Fruit wars
web.archive.org/web/20120717004708/http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/colombia/santamarta.htm

>Native US decimated
youtube.com/watch?v=lDeP7UiHz4w

would be logical to have a Museum of Smedley Butler

>I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

>That's why you invade Europe and expand your borders
Then (a) you lose.
(b) you realize even the entirety of Europe cannot provide everything you want indefinitely.

Fascism or Keynesianism? You decide.

Also
>Paid employment
>Slave Labor

[Also, given the state of the world at the time and limited nature of most welfare systems, zero unemployment, even in busywork, was a laudable goal. In a modern economy basic income is preferable to busywork as automation takes hold in more sectors.]

Fascism uses whatever economic system is most immediately convenient, which was capitalism many times.

would you call sucking ass being a lion?

Guess what happens after your day of being a lion is finished? You live as a bitch and then a sheep for 200 years. Also, that is the most edgy teenager thing I've read all week.

>reddit

Soviet Union wouldn't have existed and not have been able to kill millions without financial support from Armand Hammer, Jacob Schiff, Olof Aschberg, Alexander Parvus etc

Why do we ignore the role of Wall Street in financing the Bolshevik Revolution?

Smedley Butler was a communist agent full of bullshit and the United Fruit Corporation did nothing wrong. Central America has gone to shit ever since they left.

>Waste lots of money on pointless wars in Africa against a bunch of commies/nationalists that you had no chance of eventually winning.

Maybe he did good for Portugal, but by not nurturing proper democratic tendencies in the colonies his heavy-handedness led to communists/retards taking over Angola and Mozambique.