Do you guys realize that most people who earn over 100k a year do shit that you could EASILY do if someone taught you...

He's not a code monkey, he's a senior dev. I imagine that means he's doing UML diagrams, specifications, talking to the client, that sort of thing.

He probably has a team of programmers under him

more or less i fucking hate uml it's retarded as nine hell. i have sort of my own notation that i use when i specify things much simpler and cleaner.

You know I'm trying to be a programmer in the US and I didn't really give a fuck about anything until I was over 20.

I'll probably be a really shitty programmer even though I work hard.

I think it's fucked up that I make more money than your underlings even though I don't even have an associates degree yet

like i said such is life.

i kind of made peace with it i don't plan to work till the grave anyways that is why i'm interested in Veeky Forums and stuff i spend most of my nights learning stuff about finance and economics and how to trade stocks and whatnot.

when i get tired i learn some astronomy or physics stuff that really interested me when i was a child.

when i'm too tired for that i just shitpost here and there.

Keep it up, man.
Where are you from?

hungary (ex commie block shithole)
sad thing is now i get to watch my country getting fucked up we will end up like kosovo i tell you. fucking overbearing putinist mafia state shits up the economy and the future.

there was a time like a decade ago when i had hope. no i just wait for the right moment to split before it's too late.

Yes I discovered this over the last year.

All life is either salesmanship or nepotism.

ie: you're born into the haves, or you can convince the haves to let them join you.

Even the most complicated job on earth is still just memorization followed by application of the knowledge.

Connections and know how > legit being smart.

Connections and know-how IS legit being smart.

Approaching people who are more powerful and resourceful than you to engage in a relationship that will benefit you is fucking hard, way harder than rolling out of bed every day and learning/working

Wrong. Billionares for example, need to be smart, work hard and take risk.
Mathemeticians need at least 150 iq to truly wrestle with concepts that progress current understanding.
Working hard has nothing to do with it. Most of the ppl who make ovef 100k got there by kissing ass, and promising they wouldnt spill the secret that i am spilling now.
The reality is that there are alot of lazy ppl who deserve to be payed more.
And that alot of hard workers, like you, deserve to be payed less.

Why do you think people go to college?

Also, as for hard work to be an inventor, watch shark tank, and look at how hard some people have worked their brains to produce worthless ideas. Most of the ppl on shark tank literally worrked themselves and their brains to the max capacity, and all they could come up with is some soap with coconut oil in it- basically shit a 5 year old could come up with. Its funny how they think working hard = success. People in india with the equivalent iq of these shark tank inventors are literally eating rats and tarantulas to survive

They shouldnt. You can learn anything u need to learn from wikipedia, forums, and if u need, hiring a tutor or grad student for 20 bucks an hour. The latter still being cheaper than college by orders of mag

I wouldnt go that far.
I am a trump supporter/ libertarian.
I believe that if you dream up the cure for cancer on your own, you are einstein tier and deserve your multi-billion dollar capitalist reward. Most very rich people are stupendously talented. The reason many people seem to do well because of nepotism is actually because iq is 80 percent heritable. The kids of einstein and marie curie would do big things, no matter what field they entered. Ppl would then falsely assume its because einstein and marie curie were rich.
The point im making is that there are alot of very stupid people who, short of billionare/millionare status, still make a shitload 100k+ etc because ass kissing and feigning professionalism/competence is easy.
Steve jobs for example was mostly lucky with little talent. He couldnt do things that his engineers could do, yet he payed his engineers about one thousanth 1/1000 of what he payed himself. There more people in this world who can dream up pretty hand held music players and computers than there are people who can actually build them. Just like there are more winklevosses than zuckerbergs. Zuckerbergs are the limiting factor.
I think the people who are actually making the crushing engineering developements should be the billlionares. But most settle for being the workhorse for people like steve jobs.
Apples engineers are smart enough to realize they cant cure cancer by thinking about it, but jobs obviously wasnt. Yet jobs was paid more before lunchtime than his engineers earned annually.

>You can become whatever you want if you just work hard enough

When will this meme die? You can become a decent athlete by practicing a lot, but there are other circumstances that factor in. Things like metabolism and height factor in, and good luck becoming a world-class ice hockey player growing up in rural Texas. If you don't have access to ice your entire childhood it doesn't matter how hard you work, you'll never be able to make up for all that lost opportunity to learn.

I actually believe you mathematics one to be decently apt though I don't know enough about the development of the human brain to say for sure if there are genetic/developmental differences in the brain that determine intelligence or if it is simply a matter of caring, studying, and practicing.

Inventor sure, but you need a fuckton of luck to make it big. You can slave away on something only to be beaten to market, find out there is no market, realize you've been pursuing a stupid idea the whole time, or have some chinaman rip off your design and sell it for a fraction of the cost.

Billionaire, same thing. If you thing effort translates into wages you're simply wrong. If you're talking Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerberg style billionaires, you need the same kinds of luck as mentioned in the inventor category. If you're talking about investing, you need capital if you're going to get three commas. You're not going to get there by chipping ten thousand a year and playing the market right.

You can work hard as fuck and not reach your goals. That's life. It's not unfair, it's just the reality. It's not something society needs to change, and we don't need to pretend it isn't true. So don't.

>Okay user, welcome to your interview. It says on your resume that you have no formal postsecondary education. Where exactly did you learn how to design a fusion reactor?
>Uhh... I read the wikipedia page on cold fusion once

Thats why you should major in finance

In my previous post I disagreed with your education statement but I do agree with what you have here. Lots of people who make the actual earth-shaking discoveries, doing the hard work, are making other people rich. Not that engineers don't get a solid wage, but they're the backbones of the companies, not a figurehead like Jobs.

Unfortunately for the engineers, most of them don't have the resources on their own to form a research group to tackle big projects, so they go work for corporations that do. In the process their hard work in designing the product needs to subsidize the cost of all the administrative, sales, support, and legal positions.

Such is the way of the world.

vast majority of people who earn more than 100k are people who have been in the same house for 10-30 years. only

depending wheter you live in usa or europe, and if your salary includes insurances and other costs, only 4-6% of people earn over 100 pre tax

a true capitalist would open the borders so he can hire for less wages and stick his middle finger up at the plebs

If wages drop too far across the board, so do sales. You need those plebs to keep buying your product, and they can't do that if they're unemployed. There's a tipping point somewhere, but removing minimum wage and opening the borders will go far beyond equilibrium in the direction of lost sales, unless you're like Wal-Mart or some other business that caters to people on welfare.

I actually graduated one of the best colleges in the us. When cannon was the writing center. It just disgusts me how people try to make a nich for their intelligence level by overcomplicating everything they come across. Alot of fields try to overcomplicate/muddy the waters so that the participants can seem more expert by learning a bunch of conceptually trivial shit that they can grasp. Example- law school, med school.
Right of passage shit. "I memorized the law/medical textbook in which the most difficult concepts were understandable to the avg 12 year old... now pay me my 200,000$ a year!"

>You can become a world class athlete
no I can't
I have no agility whatsoever

>25k$ a year in hungary
>bad
pls

Hey at least you wont go...
. Baboom ching!

>I have no agility whatsoever

Because you've never trained.

You don't just wake up with "agility" one day

>But most ppl who earn 100k+ want you to believe that most ppl cant do what they can do.
Duh. I'm at 60k right now with 2 years of experience in my field. I'll likely jump to 75 this year on my third year review so 100k isn't far off at all. If everyone trying for 100k+ jobs then they wouldn't be worth that much. Keep yourself in demand by keeping supply of workers with your skills low. If that means spreading maymays like 'CS work will be outsourced so don't bother" then so be it.

>But most ppl who earn 100k+ want you to believe that most ppl cant do what they can do.
>I can teach soneone with an 80 iq how to be a pharmacist

Is that why you're earning $100k/yr?

Yeah thought so. You're posting on Veeky Forums, you are a NEET or a college student just like all of us here.

>You can become a world class athlete
In terms of weight loss, muh genetics is a lie that fat people tell themselves to feel better. But in terms of being a pro athlete, it really is genetics and you will always fail compared to the genetic freak that is running a pharmacy in his anus.

explain... what are may mays

Same poster but wrong post. The maymay (a meme for the wrong pronunciation of 'meme') is that jobs in programming will all be sent over to India where Pajeet will do it for a fraction of the cost so new people trying to study CS shouldn't bother because they'll end up with a worthless degree.
The truth is that Pajeet is a terrible programmer and companies that outsource end up hiring american firms to fix the shit fest that pajeet pulled off the streets. If you say you're a developer with any kind of experience on LinkdIn, expect a never ending stream of recruiters trying to pull you in. If you can't find work with this degree, you're worthless.

>senior dev
>25k
P A J E E T
M
Y
S
O
N

>But most settle for being the workhorse for people like steve jobs.
I think it's because most engineer types live pretty simple means. A place to sleep a night, money for your tech junk, food in your stomach, clothes on your back and maybe a decent car. What more do you really need?

That's an exaduration. Anyone can learn problems just the lower in you have the longer it will take to learn the problem. Noone is always pushing them selves to learn something. For my math exams I could only study the same week of an exam for every exam and still get an a in the class. Imagine if I tried doing that the entire month before the first exam? I'd be ready for the final and then some.

>If you say you're a developer with any kind of experience on LinkdIn, expect a never ending stream of recruiters trying to pull you in.
I dunno man, I'm a dev with 3 years of experience and I get maybe 1 recruiter a month and it's usually bullshit.

I'm trying to get out of webdev and won't touch oracle or microshit though.

im a senior dev that makes ~140k/yr and I can do/be trained to do your job.

Myth busted.

>Implying jobs merely pay you for the work you do, but not also the working conditions and decreased quality of life.

I think most people could do my job. I know most people can't handle the life and sacrifices involved in it though.

WTF did I just read?

Nah, Steve Jobs had a quality that almost nobody who worked for him had. Or else they would not have been working for him; they would have been getting rich on their own.

I'm not sure what that quality was. Steve disowned his own child (no sense of obligation to anything). He would work ridiculous hours and expect others to keep up. He claimed that LSD changed his life.

There are a lot of people who are too scared to be bold; it would be a "risk" to their family, though some are able to build empires by getting their families to be very supportive - or very forgiving of the busy schedule. There are many (very intelligent) people who simply don't want to work more than 8 hours a day once they've reached a certain level of comfort in life. Maybe certain drugs truly unlock some sort of genius or passion, and LSD worked for Jobs. I'm sure I could find more potential qualities that set Jobs aside from others, but this is what I know anecdotally.

The point is, Jobs had some quality that made him one in a million.

He was just a good marketer.

>i think i'm the retarded that i didn't split for a more developed country
You only got hired to do what you do because you work so cheap.

engineers who actually do the stuff(iphones, new tech etc) should be the billionares because they are doing the actual work

in reality the billionares are(mostly) only people who are, in all fairness, replaceable

legit

but it's not easy
going from zero to $30k (in an expensive area) and it's going to take a measure of effort to move up from here & you can guarantee the easiest way is to look the part, maintain a funnel of potential jobs and lie lie lie on that resume

OP has a point. Currently making $85k in banking with a partial bachelors. I will hit $100k in a few years. And this is for a gig where I do maybe 30-35 hours of actual work per week. Technically, my job isn't difficult. In the end it's about experience and making good professional judgement calls

Nails it. If you're born into white trash you simply cannot get a high paying job for someone smart. You will have a chip on your shoulder and will not know how to behave in proper society.

You live in a place where the cost of living is lower.

Some of the people who state relatively high salaries live in places where the cost of living is so high that they pretty much have to get lucky on stock grants or options to really be able to buy housing.

I'm not sure where you are but $25,000 may actually be a relatively strong wage in your country.

>hard work equal sccuess
point at him and laugh
it's all connections.

bro what the fuck are you doing? Hungary is in the EU so you don't really have an excuse.

if you are not bullshitting, i can literally get you a job in the UK doing the same thing for a proper wage. i know of at least one systems integrator that is crying out for people like you.

>Because you've never trained.
4 years karate, 2 years cuu long vo dao and one year of gymnastics
and I've never been good at these

>You don't just wake up with "agility" one day
as a kid/teen, in sports class, everyone succeeded in basic tasks (like playing volleyball, running...)
I didn't, had less than 10/20 grades and was always in the handicapped row, with the fat asses and the retarded (although I was skinny and normie)

you are in the 1% i guess, i never said nobody can i said very few can compared to how many earns way more than me. but a couple of ten or hundred thousands on the world easily.

it is relatively, but price parity is only 1.6 with the us so it would be $40k salary in the us or something like that.

i'm not bullshitting sadly there are two factors that hold me back, my gf who don't want to leave the country till her parents are alive and i kinda never finished my degree so i will start on it next year.

eventually i will split no question, right now might not be the best time for me. till then i will gain some more exp and learn some more stuff and earn some money so i can last a couple of months in a western country till i find work.

It's not even because of unions, it's just the simple fact that most jobs do not require much more than a 16 year old's maths skills and literacy. Social skills and hard work on top of those basically ensure you can be successful

Being capable still means you have to learn but OP means that everyone is capable of learning.

And you're overrating your job massively. "Capable programmers" are not rare. "Programmers who can be hired and already know the domain specific knowledge of my specific workplace" are rare... but people who are capable of learning are not.

i feel bad now. I got a job paying 80k a year in the tech field and i know shit all about anything.

Yeah I feel like OP is characterizing this as a case of a bunch of loser shmucks missing out on a golden opportunity, when the reality is that it's all about your ultimate desire and only a handful of people are willing to make the tradeoffs in life that the path to Steve Jobs-tier success demands from you.

i can't help but laugh at how stupid people are. they dedicated their who deluded lives to make a piece of shit.

maybe they are rare in my country because all the ones that had some sense left for england or germany.
plausible enough when i think about it.

To be fair working with straight TCP/IP is a huge pain in the balls.

Try to move.

that was just an example how the communication problems from late ACK between a PLC and a PC can fuck everything up in a timing sensitive industrial automation scenario. it was a completely overlook minuscule detail in that solution that fucked us. the incompatible frame size used by the two network card also contributed to the problem.

My main point is that most ppl who are earning over 100k a year are nothing special. i think you should be payed based on value, not based on how hard you worked. As an example, If a guy picks a smart ugly girl to have kids with over a dumb good looking girl, he should be rewarded by having his kids intellect give him a better life. The kid payed for his iq by also getting his mothers not so great looks, so he should be rewarded for the sacrifice that was manifested in his creation.
Alot of seemingly competent 100k'ers dont deserve to make what they make. Like the typical real estate agent who smiles so hard they look like they are taking a shit. You shouldnt be payed 500-1000 bucks a day to walk people around a house an say "Heres the kitchen".
Alot of people who dont make that much, on the other hand, deserve to be payed more. Engineers deserve to make much more than they do, even if they are currently making plenty of money.
Mainly, i think there are too many stupid people in the us who get payed way more than they deserve, just because they worked hard and feigned competence. And alot of lazy brilliant ppl are being taken advantage of.

>My college dropout girlfriend makes 120k+ cleaning after patients and calling a doctor when something actually happens.
>Literally a robot can do her job... and likely will in the near future.

Nursing probably has the highest pay to lowest work skill set ratio of any high paying career.

The only worst skill to pay ratio are Silicon Valley VTA fucking Union Bus drivers...

Get paid 120k (not including overtime) average for driving a bus...

WTF? Fucking Unions.

>most ppl who are earning over 100k a year are nothing special.

This is why Unions exist and why they fight tooth and nail to protect their ridiculous salaries

>My main point is that most ppl who are earning over 100k a year are nothing special.

"$100,000 bus driver pay explained"

One of the reasons many VTA bus drivers make more than $100,000 a year is that transit labor Unions makes it extremely difficult to fill driver positions, VTA General Manager Michael Burns told the Palo Alto post."

"But the longshoremen who move the goods the shortest distance, between ship and shore, have shrewdly protected pay that trumps that of many white-collar managers. About half of West Coast union longshoremen make more than $100,000 a year — some much more, according to shipping industry data."

My college graduate friend is trying to get into the Oakland port longshoreman's union.

He's in a waiting list of like 5,000... and the list doesn't move. The only people that get in are relatives of the Union members and people who are either connected, or pay bribes.

"The Bay Area VTA employs 75 bus drivers who make $100,000 a year or more, including one, Kenneth Darden, who made $191,210 last year."

Why does a bus drivers deserve to make $100,000?

> Burns said bus drivers have a difficult job because they are in the public eye, forced to deal with the citizen face-to-face and because they can’t just take a bathroom break whenever they need to.

let me repeat that: Bus drivers deserve $100k salaries because they have to deal with PEOPLE! and can't pee anytime they want!!!!

>kid payed for his iq by also getting his mothers not so great looks
It's a horribly naive assumption to make that being intelligent and being attractive are mutually exclusive, if not even positively correlated.

What you get paid isn't a function of how hard you work, it's a function of how desirable and difficult to acquire the work you do is. Polishing rocks on a beach is hard, but no one wants polished rocks so nobody pays for it. Working at McBurger might be valuable to McBurger but it's not hard to find, train, or replace McBurger employees so the pay is shit.

The guy up above whining about how he makes shit pay doing higher level software work seems to miss the reason software devs make so much elsewhere in the world: those places aren't ex-soviet shitholes and workers doing work in those areas are less desirable than someone of equal skills in already in a first world country.

People get this idea that your paycheck is something you "deserve", or "earn", or that there is someone or something measuring the value of a man and assigning him a dollar value. It's just not true. A CEO makes millions of dollars not because they deserve or earned anything but because the company needs a CEO and the smart money is on attracting a hopefully talented person with pricey salaries and benefits rather than taking a spin on training John From Accounting for the job.

> What you get paid isn't a function of how hard you work, it's a function of how desirable and DIFFICULT to acquire the work you do is

And that's where labor unions come in.

How do we protect easy, low skilled jobs that anybody can do, yet earn ridiculously high salaries?

Create unnecessary barriers to entry.

Labor Unions create these barriers with miles and miles of red tape and "safety" "security" regulations.

>A CEO makes millions of dollars

Because they can do something that you cannot. The free market chooses to pay them those salaries... no body is forcing this high pay.

Labor Unions on the other hand... get paid ridiculously high salaries for doing things that ANYBODY can do. The free market does not choose to pay them their ridiculous salaries, but the Labor Unions forces them to through extortion and thuggery.

People thinking corporations are better served by cutting CEO salaries really should be targeting labor unions and their artificially Forced cost...

>Why does a bus drivers deserve to make $100,000?
>> Burns said bus drivers have a difficult job because they are in the public eye, forced to deal with the citizen face-to-face and because they can’t just take a bathroom break whenever they need to.
>let me repeat that: Bus drivers deserve $100k salaries because they have to deal with PEOPLE! and can't pee anytime they want!!!!

BTW, private sector bus drivers in Palo Alto average $55k salary. That means there are a pool of workers happy to drive busses for half the pay of a TWA bus driver.

How does the TWA justify their $120k salaries extorted form the tax payers?

>muh unions
I don't know what the fuck is wrong with the US, but here no one with a six figure salary is unionized (except doctors, if you call their organization an union.)
Meanwhile I see plenty of bumbling incompetent idiots getting paid to ""manage"" shit badly because they "network" with the right people.

My job is in outside sales, which is easy to learn but hard to be successful at. I sell services to legal firms in Wash DC.

I leave the house at 8 in the morning, and usually dont get home until 10ish. Everyday is a business lunch with clients, and a few nights a week are dinners as well. Do happy hour once a week with some younger clients, and once a week with rest of sales team.

Lawyers in DC work 24/7, so if a client needs something at 3AM, I have to work. Type A alpha lawyers are not easy to please. My "free time" is spent with my phone in hand, constantly monitoring emails and the occasional shitpost on /pol/.

I have no life or relationships with anyone other than clients/coworkers and a few bros from high school. My girlfriend left me. I come home to a empty $2500 apartment every night.

99% of people would not make it in this job. You need to not care about anything other than making money. That being said, the money is fucking good.

I'm projected to make ~$300,000 this year.

specifically what do you mean by outside sales? what services do you sell to attorneys?

>Let's cut eachother's throats in a race to the bottom guys!
>What could go wrong?!
You're looking at it all the wrong way. There are companies willing to pay $100k a year to bus drivers. As such, other bus drivers should be asking for more.

Outside sales meaning I don't really have a office/desk that I report to every day. I go from client to client office's throughout the day.

The company I work for sells alot of shit. My entry level service is access to our database which organizes antitrust+competition law, banking and consumer finance law, securities and corporate law, bird law, etc. into streamlined, searchable entries that save a lot of time for the law firms.

Individual State laws are constantly changing wrt securities shit. I sell access to software that supplys the latest news, laws, regulations, cases, policy statements, etc and allows you to make pretty graphs to show off to clients.

Just a few examples.

>Because they can do something that you cannot.

Not always true. Many people inherit such statuses and use it to generate passive income. But then again I suppose not everybody can be born into a nepotistic network. If you see that as a talent, then I suppose I can have no qualms with what you've said.

>Labor Unions on the other hand... get paid ridiculously high salaries for doing things that ANYBODY can do

Go start a welding internship tomorrow, Arguile.
Or maybe dynamite some tunnels. Or operate heavy and complex machinery.

Not eveyone can do that.

This is true. Every middle manager I've ever met was playing a retarded game where they fluctuated between trying to actually run a business logically, and trying to meat their own bosses ridiculous, uninformed demands and deadlines, borne from some Goebbelsian bullshitting of some filthy rich client who isn't interested in the implementation details of anything they pay for

how are you making that much? from google, it looks like outside sales ppl make 30-60k

>falls for the lolbertarian meme

Everyone else does the same thing with nepotism, cronyism, degrees, and certifications. Everything sucks because everyone has a vice grip on each other's testicles, and if we just collectively loosened that grip, we'd be free to move around a bit. But anytime someone points this out, the collective grip tightens, and everyone ironically says "That's collectivism, Hoss. Collectivism don't work."

Or idealism. Or whatever.

I anticipate responses in which the symbolic grip on my nuts is tightened. Or no responses at all.

My salary is only $35,000 a year. The rest of my money comes from commissions.

For example if a sign a law firm up for a service, I get a certain percentage of the upfront cost that we charge that company. That's what that $10,000 check was that I got on May 12th in my screenshot. We then bill the company for using the service every 3 months, and I get a cut of that as well.

wow , what kind of degree do i need for your job? im assuming same job different companies exist in every state? Do you do the pitch yourself or do you have partners that help you ?

On a different WiFi so don't mind the change in IDs.

Yes, we have people in every major city internationally.

As far as pitching is concerned, I am in charge of my getting my foot in the door. I get the clients started using our systems, and then once I build a rapport with the customer I offer more high end services which I bring in specialists for who know more than i do. I basically have been taught just enough about our offerings to plant the seeds for future services.

I graduated with a communications degree (kek) from a state school. I started out cold calling for Groupon right out of college. Did well, and got recruited to sell pharmaceuticals after that. Did well there, and moved on to selling sailboats/yachts. My current boss bought a 62' Marlow Explorer off of me and offered me an opportunity because of how dedicated I was to his satisfaction.

I got u man. Ive actually read that good looks and intelligence are positively correlated. All im saying is that the chance of landing a girl both as smart and as good looking as natalie portman is much smaller than the chance of landing a girl as smart as natalie portman but not so good looking. There are going to be about as many smart good looking girls as smart not so good looking girls. But bc of the demand structure you will have an easier time landing someone like scheldons girlfriend than natalie Portman. Girls that are both very smart and very attractive have egos that make charlie sheen and the dolan look tame. Its hard to tap that shit. If it isnt its because they are the typical hot/smart girl who for some reason has esteem issues so becomes a massice slut. It happens.

In this case you'd be increasing the consumer base. Adding more people with low wages will not drag on sales. There will still be those making higher wages.

lol is this a joke?

not everyone can be a word class athlete.

>I'm trying to get out of webdev and won't touch oracle or microshit though.

why even bother posting your response? no wonder you're not desirable, and you know it...

yes its soooooo simple. keep telling yourself you could be the next steve jobs if only you applied yourself.

>"I memorized the law/medical textbook in which the most difficult concepts were understandable to the avg 12 year old... now pay me my 200,000$ a year!"

So why aren't YOU memorizing those books, if it's so easy?

Thats cool man. Eventually what your offering is going to be everywhere tho, so the open season is going to end. If your company can innovate and continue making better case-google big data improvements, you will be set. But if not the niche you find yourself in will eventually close up. The only consistently stable investment is iq. Samsung surprised alot of idiots, but wasnt surprising to ppl who knew south koreans had the highest national avg iq in the world.