Holodomor

Was it a genocide against the Ukrainians or "an unintended result of the Soviet regime's re-direction of already drought-reduced grain supplies to attain economic and political goals and part of the wider Soviet famine of 1932-33?"
strawpoll.me/10421773

The Holodomor genocide question consists of the attempts to determine whether the Holodomor, the catastrophic man-made[1] famine of 1933 that claimed millions of lives in Ukraine,[2] was an ethnic genocide, an unintended result of the "Soviet regime's [re-direction of already drought-reduced[3] grain supplies to attain] economic and political goals',"[4] or democide.[5][6] The event is recognized as a crime against humanity by the European Parliament,[7] and a genocide in Ukraine,[8] while the Russian Federation considers it part of the wider Soviet famine of 1932-33 and corresponding famine relief effort.[4] The debate among historians is ongoing. There is no international consensus among scholars or governments on whether the Soviet policies that caused the famine fall under the legal definition of genocide.[9][10]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Considering it was just one in a series of famines in the area that extended far beyond the Ukraine, that it was precipitated by drought and war conditions, that Stalin himself sent extra aid to that area than other areas affected in the Sovietsphere, and that to this day it's not recognized as a genocide by the UN precisely because it fails to meet the definition of a genocide: no.

First post best post.

fuck are so many hohols doing in my country

It was intended alright. The problem is figuring out whether Ukrainians were targeted specifically or it was a matter of destroying self-sufficient peasantry in general, and that's where you believe what you want to believe.

By the look of how many of them are women probably sucking dick for money just like back home.

Holodomor was a genocide because...
Stalin can control weather I guess?

And Mao. Somehow every communist ever has the magical ability to control weather. Liberals unironically actually believe this though and keep using it as part of their ideology, whew.

No it was not, but It had the effect.

Fuck off, Putin.

...

first post best post

No.

Stalin didn't had any reason to specifically target Ukrainians. There were many groups in the Soviet Union who suffered under Stalin but there was no reason to specifically target Ukrainians.

While Ukrainians have of course always and rightfully remembered the Holodomor, it was only Yushchenko who, after failed economic reforms, turned to symbolism and turned the Holodomor into a genocide and into the founding myth of modern Ukraine.

Also, the Ukraine was the "bread basket" of the Soviet Union and the Donbas in the East delivered the coal the Soviet Union needed.

If you look at the propaganda of the Soviet Union, you'll actually find that Ukrainians were celebrated: the beautiful nature, the hard working miners, etc.

There was no reason to artifically and willingly start a FAMINE to kill off the people working in the "bread basket" and the "coal basket" of the Soviet Union.

>muh over 300000000 billion holodomor victims
>kazakh famine what? russian famine who?
goddamn I hate ukies and their special snowflake syndrome

Not denying that Kazakh famine wasn't horrible but the world kept forgetting about Ukraine's existence, that was bound to ruffle some feathers.

>the world kept forgetting about Ukraine's existence, that was bound to ruffle some feathers

Who is "the world"?

Of course the USA doesn't care about the former Soviet countries, as long as they can't use them to attack Russia.

I think America has since recognized it, but only because of the Ukraine coup and Donbass crisis that happened a few years ago

Where's your argument, lad?

>I think America has since recognized it

America makes up weapons of mass destruction if they don't like a country, so why would it be surprising if they'd make up a "genocide."

They could control the allocation of people and resources. You're genocide apologists.

Completely agreed, that people still defend these biggest hypocrites in history is disturbing.

So could any state that had a famine within their borders.

And interestingly Stalin actually did direct resources towards famine relief.

The "Holodomor" and the Three Bad Years aren't even close to being genocides, twat.
>yfw Maoist collectivization led to increased population, calorie intake, the highest life expectancy rates in China's rural history, and the last famine ever in a country whose history is famously "a history of famine"

Yeah, never mind the food requisition, the keeping people from leaving, the aid refusal along with exporting food, the punishment on discussion about it (even death penalty for those who blamed the authorities).
Commies dindu nuffin, they good boys.
>British maoist
>Troll face meme
Just sad.

Not British or a Maoist, I just don't think with a meme brain and tertiary-at-best "sources".

Mao giving an order to kill all birds cause they "eat the seed" and then the lack of birds causing a famine cause the spike in insects ate the harvest WAS in Maos control though.

>protesting famine
>"The Irish Times" banner behind them
top kek

It was one kind of bird, and the sparrows that were notorious for eating crop seed in great amounts. Even Mao himself said this was a short-sighted mistake but no one was aware of how much the sparrows fed off of locusts as well. Not the first time in history, including the US and other advanced nations, that such a thing occurred, but they had the intelligence to stop the attacking sparrows (dealing with he other three pests proved successful however). Luckily, despite this, the drought/flooding, and necessary export of grain, collectivization and partnership between communes prior to this allowed peasantry to have unprecedented access to their crop, resulting in historically low percentage of deaths caused by famine.

>It unintended consequences
Not knowing that communism starves people is ignorance. You can be held responsible for ignorance.

Doesn't matter though since he knew what he was doing. It was a planned mass starvation. It's an undeniable fact.

ITT: Bootyblasted liberal damage control

Nice """"""facts"""""" ya got there, Winston

Oп, нe нaчинaй.

>yfw Maoist collectivization led to increased population, calorie intake, the highest life expectancy rates in China's rural history, and the last famine ever in a country whose history is famously "a history of famine"


proofs?

He likes to pretend that Mao didn't kill more people than any other dictator in history

You mean than all others combined?

>Yeah, never mind the food requisition, the keeping people from leaving, the aid refusal along with exporting food, the punishment on discussion about it (even death penalty for those who blamed the authorities).

>commies literally feed people in cities and factories to prevent them from dying
>unfortunately, not enough food to feed all population, so the priority is to feed educated people in cities
>peasants start to die
>somehow it's only Ukrainians live in villages
>now it's called genocide of Ukrainians

>Unfortunately
All planned economies fail you retarded dumbass

it was genocide. Ukraine is the leading producer of wheat and sunflower oil in the world with the best black earth fertile soil known to man. it could feed a population as large as China yet apparently it could not feed its people but fed those others who confiscated the grain?

Stalin could have genocided races and leftist would say its fine as long as he didn't admit racial IQ differences, in fact he genocided all of the crimeran peninsula

>300k deaths
>"Armenian genocide by turk smells"

>10 million deaths
>"kohol scum whining"

hmmm I wonder could be behind these spammed opinions

USSR was still selling Ukrainian grain overseas, trading Ukrainian lives for industrialization.

this belongs on GoT General on TV

>Ukrainians

As a matter of fact, yes. Read pic related, written by an agricultural scientist that lived through the whole period.

>>All planned economies fail
>literally every successful economy in the world is a planned economy

Except for, like, every successful economy.

>an-caps

>an

UA politicos using deaths of their own people for political points is quite disgusting

creating a special term exclusive for famine in Ukraine while it was going on across Soviet Union?

and creating a narrative that it was ebil russians who did it?

who do you literally think WERE local administrators whose brain failure, retarded actions and adherence to stupid political dogma led to famine? ancient aliens? black romans? magical fairies?

no, it was literally the very same ukrainians because communists as a rule raise locals to rule over themselves

Bolsheviks were sent by Germany to destabilize Russia. Germany is literally responsible for WWI, WW2, AND THE EXISTENCE OF COMMUNISM.
Holodomor is the fault of germans. Katyn is the fault of germans. The killing fields is the fault of germans. The purges in the Soviet Union are the fault of germans.

1941–1944 Famine in Greece caused by the Axis occupation, killed 500,000.[97][98]

1941–44 Leningrad famine caused by a 900-day blockade by German troops. About one million Leningrad residents starved, froze, or were bombed to death in the winter of 1941–42, when supply routes to the city were cut off and temperatures dropped to −40 °C (−40 °F).[96] Russia 1 million


1940–1945 Famine in Warsaw Ghetto, as well as other ghettos and concentration camps (note: this famine was the result of deliberate denial of food to ghetto residents on the part of Nazis).

1845–1849 Great Famine in Ireland killed more than 1 million people and over 1.5–2 million emigrated[67] Ireland 1.5 million

1708–1711 Famine in East Prussia killed 250,000 people or 41% of its population[48] East Prussia 250,000


1896–1902 Series of famines in India due to drought and British policies.[76][84][85] India 6 million (British Territories), Mortality unknown in Princely States

One of the worst famines in all of Russian history; famine killed as many as 100,000 in Moscow and up to one-third of Tsar Godunov's subjects; see Russian famine of 1601–1603.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

This. Germans ruin everything.