How can you be so fucking retarded?

how can you be so fucking retarded?

found on some Bernie sanders fb group

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Waiting for the $10 gallon of milk from the $15 minimum wage

Wages should never go up, because the economy.

i don't get it who said it's the only thing driving up prices / driving inflation?

Wages should stay the same, or go down even, no matter how a company is doing, because economics

C.E.O. bonuses should only go up, because Capitalism.

i hope you are just trolling nigga

Here on Veeky Forums, we don't just tolerate low wages and poor working conditions, we demand them! Because we deserve it, and our masters deserve to be wealthy. It's the natural order. Everyone has the same opportunity, it's completely fair. So quit asking for handouts, we take whatever they choose to pay us, and we're grateful.

Don't quote me faggot quote the samefag

let me tell you what happened in my country when minimum wages got implemented:
we got 135% inflation in the next 10 years before the minimal wage raise lost effect and purchasing power fell right back to previous levels. in the short run a lot off people was let go or employed by the black market this created a shortage on the market this in turn raised the wages all across the board. until balance was restored by the market then they raised the min wage again and it all started again.

short term effect: more unemployment, more black jobs
long term effect: inflation which is a hidden tax on the middle class

you are both green sorry

We're all green, yay!

What country is that?

Shit like this makes me so mad. The idea that America is entitled to a middle class disgusts me. It would be the 1% and the peasants. Cost of living adjustment to make up for the lack thereof in the last 40 years is nothing less than socialism. We should really aim for a wealthy-disparity model more akin to other successful countries, like Somalia.

You're fucking retarded

ooh scathing comeback by 21D. 8wle, do you have anything to add to that analysis?

*8+g2 I mean hehe.

stupid autocorrect.

hello frank underwood

I'll be the first one to admit that I've never worked a real day in my life. I mean, I have two part time jobs (one 24 hours and one 28 hours, no one will let me go full time because I (rightly) don't deserve benefits) and am taking 17 credit hours at Uni, but I've never "worked". I just get spit on making my 9/hr by real human beings. Yea, I go to work, but I've never had a +$5 million dollar day on the stock market by investing $15 million my daddy gave me to short a stock that I knew would plummet because my best friend (whose dad owns the company) was going to embezzle hundreds of millions, so I dont know the feeling of REAL work.

this thread somehow lures in the trolls with the lowest iq. is the entire bernie campaign like this?

Great point bro. You're full of great points. Every retarded comment out of your mouth is a never before considered insight into how the world truly works .

>people thinking it's a "win" or "lose" situation with only two possible outcomes
>not realising they're all screwed either way, no matter what they do

If your country increases the minimum wage and companies turn around to fuck everyone into oblivion then there are some pretty fuckin significant issues in your country.

I understand that it can cause inflation if you over-saturate a country with tons of money; but how a national minimum wage going to have that significant an impact.

Anyone acting like the sky is falling because of this is someone with money. I hope you cunts get dragged out into the street and shot next time your banks put your economy in the toilet.

>mfw americans wont vote for somebody if they call themself socialist

>mfw americans wont vote for somebody who believes in higher minimum wage

>mfw americans will only vote for wall street puppets

>mfw americlaps will vote and applaud a man who talks about the time he was down at 7/11

You just cant make this up!

there are to ways to keep economy going "good" or "better"

1. cycling like is now everywhere in the world. (ups and downs - which makes the rich get richer with rigged economic system, they "speculate" and buy your family at the cheapest price because later your mother will cost +100% thus making money for them
(sell your mother to the rats, lower her price, buy her from rats, increase her price and repeat cycle - to lower or increase the price they use all the factors [and more] stated below)

2. or increasing its price with no limit. (uptrend for ever - everyone would be much happier, you can still speculate, buy now because tomorrow its price will be higher)


price rises because employment rate, liquidity flow of money, total fiat value of the pop as a whole, weather, country's fiat value against other countries (how competitive they are to export) etc etc and etc

if workers know they'll be paid because they are"workers" & regardless of how hard or productive they work thats socialism. that's why it fails

The workers have to make more money to the boss than the worker's real value
(health care, social security, or what ever fee's a worker incur to the boss for having a worker employed in the business + make more money than the worker's salary)
otherwise no business can survive.

It's all based on exploitation.

Its a trade, in which both sides tries to get the most out of each other.

Enjoy satan's control. God wouldn't do this to any of us.

at least i don't just talk shit (sorry it's more incoherent rambling really) like you that's a plus.

>It's all based on exploitation.
that's not exploitation capital doesn't come free returns on capital don't come free. the capitalist takes the risk in business and thus he gets the greater return.

pretty basic rule of economy less risk lower return high risk higher return. if these don't come true then the market will immediately reorganize new actors will flood the low risk high payout sectors and some will leave the high risk low pay sectors.

exploitation is a marxist buzzword.

>It's all based on exploitation.
It's not, it's mutually beneficial, are you delusional?

The employer's profit is his payment for assuming the risk of running the business. If the workers want a share of that they can either open their own businesses (or a cooperative) or buy stock

>B-but the worker cannot open his own business!
So you agree that the employer is providing something valuable to the workers?

Forget about minimum wages. The problem with the economy is all the rich people who can afford $20 for a hamburger driving the prices up.
Instead of mucking about with minimum wage we should implement a maximum wage.

yeah imagine if a corporation wouldn't hire you unless you but at least $10k stocks.
people would be royally pissed how it's discrimination against the poor and how it forces people into debt just to be able to work i think. even tho it would make sense in many ways.

kek an other wonderful socialist idea.
guess what money works around limitations like this inn a heartbeat. but you lose on tax revenue quiet a lot.

my countries prime minister is estimated to be the wealthiest man in the country (he achieved it in a few years of office) officially he makes around $65k a year. his estimated wealth is about $1.8 billion. math doesn't add up too well. i mean that is how socialism works it's a fine example. even if you maximized his wage in $20k a year what would that change about how much he can steal?

Pick one country, Any country that has shown where socialism/communism works. I'll give you a hint. They don't exist.

countries gdp is just above $100 billion for reference he stole more than 1% of the total gdp over a few years. and that's just his personal little stash the amount that went to various friends and supporters in total dwarves this.

the way i see it economy would work great if politicians wouldn't fuck with it all the time. which only breeds corruption a loss of efficiency a fucking dead weight on the overall performance. minimum wage is one of these typical meddlings but pretty much the only thing they can't just outright steal or make profit off it's just plain harmful.

>socialism dosnt work

Jeb pls go

if you think scandinavia is socialist i have news for you abdul.
i grew up in a socialist country and it's nothing like the north up there. it's pure undiluted piss and shit nothing works everything is crap quality and the fucking nanny state micromanages your entire life from education to employment wages and benefits and what you can buy and how much you can buy how long you have to wait for a car (you can choose from 1 or 2 types) or a landline. that's socialism.

the upside is nobody pays taxes cause everyone is a state employee so it would be pointless to tax anything.

>There is only one kind of socialism and it cant include free market forces

Well at least they gave you a good education :^) :^)

thing is if there is free market it's not a socialism imo. but sadly the free market doesn't really exists anywhere so it's a moot point to have.

socialism leads to what i described anyways doesn't matter where it starts off it always increase state meddling never decrease it. the entire mindset that the state can make you be better off is what drives that insanity. and it ends in totalitarian regimes.

You mean the economy would work if it weren't for corruption and greed, fixing the system in favor of those who already have power, money, influence. True in a capitalist, or socialist system. Minimum wage is a (possibly ineffective) way to try and mitigate the problem. What country did you say you were from again?

kek, fucking pleb. Funniest mentality for plebs to have is the "THE ONLY WAY TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN ANY WAY IS NEPOTISM AND ILLEGAL SHIT THAT I WOULD NEEEEEEVER GET AWAY WITH"

Keep getting butthurt that your classmates are getting internships. It shows how young and fragile you must be

hungary
we pretty much have experience with all systems now. currently implementing the putin system. and somehow a great portion of the imbecile population thinks that's a good idea.

i personally think capitalism with small state and little intervention / monopolies where it's unavoidable and great overall transparency would be the best system to live in.

sadly this is the only system we haven't tried yet.

yeah socialism sure has been working out great for you retarded cucks, especially sweden.

>abolish minimum wage
>prices of goods, services and housing stay the same and continue to rise
>people work borderline slave labor for peanuts resulting in more homelessness and more inefficient welfare cases
>income disparity rises substantially causing even greater social unrest which leads to more crime causing an even greater need for taxes

Wow what a great system you guys came up with.

>Not just having Basic income

Tick tock wageslave, the people gullible enough to continue working need to pay for the NEET master race. don't worry, your taxes are going to a good cause... my hobbies :^)

they would stay the same because they would just get more welfare.

are you seriously so daft as to think that the bulk of people earning minimum wage aren't on some sort of government assistance?

>thing is if there is free market it's not a socialism imo

Ok its pretty hard to discuss things with someone who can define everything by himself. But socialism can have both private and non-private markets.

>ends in totalitarian regimes

wew famelam

Why not just raise the minimum then?

you can raise it a dollar or so to keep the purchasing power more in balance with inflation, but not directly to 15 dollars like the retarded leftists want.

that will just lead to more automation, especially in the service sector as we're seeing in fast food.

I agree that the minimum should be in check with inflation.

But I don't think it would directly cause automation, I think it would just speed up the transition.

The fact is, automation is on the tipping point right now. It's just a matter of time before the technology matures and the price is right for the large scale.

>>ends in totalitarian regimes
>wew famelam
just take a look at russia typical example of where this shit leads to.
they were down the capitalist path. it was pretty hard sure but they had hope. then it all went to shit and now they back on the good old "communist" oligarchic mafia state path.

the more power you give to the state the more money it will rob the economy and you of. and the more power it wants because never enough money to steal there is always potential for more. simple as that.

>Ok its pretty hard to discuss things with someone who can define everything by himself. But socialism can have both private and non-private markets.
>Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production,[7] as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim at their establishment.

no socialism does not allow for free market it is all about state regulated market by the "people's will" of course only it's not the people that get rich of only a select few gets dirty rich everyone else gets so poor that western fags can't even begin to fathom unless they went to africa or north korea.

>no socialism does not allow for free market

wew i guess everyone was wrong then.

Its pretty funny that you found that on wikipedia but in the next paragraph it says "Socialist economic systems can be divided into both non-market and market forms." kek

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism

And if you argue that the interaction of goverment and market means that the market isnt a "Free market" then lets just conclude that the free market is a fairy tale outside of Somalia. Because even the american market is under goverment regulation and subsidies

Daily reminder to filter this guy

i know this state affects markets by regulatory power and distorts them. sometimes it's necessary for long term viability like regulation about protecting nature and people from pollution effects and general harmful practices that are profitable on the short run but cause long lasting damage to the population and thus the individuals. some regulation is inevitable i guess. but it should be minimal and really focusing on the essential safety not stuff about fair and unfair and other social justice bullshit.
>"Socialist economic systems can be divided into both non-market and market forms."
thing is if you control production you control the market. socialism aims to control production thus the entire market. you can have a market of course it will not be anything free or resembling to one.

i have lived this. we had money we had shops we had free choice that we bought bread or milk but of course there was only one kind of bread and one kind of milk. that's market socialism.

and the tragedy of it it strives to decrease inefficiency caused by greed capitalists and competition. but it does the opposite.

>liberal intellectuals

University can be kinda like this. Except people go a lot more than 10k in debt.

>and the tragedy of it it strives to decrease inefficiency caused by greed capitalists and competition. but it does the opposite.

It is true tho. Im not really a fan of socialism and i do vote the most liberal party in denmark (granted americans will still think im a commie since they aim for 20-40% income tax).

My original point was that i found it funny that american wont vote for a guy that kill himself a socialst although Bernie inst a real socialist.

Why are you like this

lololol u r so retardad XXDDDDD librals r so stuepid Xdddddddlol

argumant disporved

Because I hate champaign socialists

Oh man this guy sounds like a delusional high school kid who thinks he's part of the royal family or something

I've been licking these boots for a few weeks now, and I'm starting to think that I may never own them. I-it'll happen, r-right?
I'm sorry for doubting You, Mr. Friedman, it's just difficult sometimes... I'll keep licking... society will collapse if I ever get these boots. I'm not worthy of boots because I am not pure. Sorry, Mr. Friedman. Sorry for doubting you.

I also hate dem dam champaign socialists man

Im not that delusional

it's funny to me how people who never experienced socialism for a day think that taxes and unemployment = socialism while they live in wonderful venture capitalist countries with actually working economies.

>raising the minimum wage increases prices
It's not that simple.

>PEASANTRY: THE DEBATE

this minimum wage nonsense bothers me in the least, if you are earning minimum wage then you are:

a) under 16
b) an idiot
c) an illegal alien

who in their right mind expects to work as a cashier in McDs for 20-30 years

yeah imagine the people who made more than under 16 idiotic illegal aliens this far but suddenly they see they make exactly that or just a tiny little more. they will feel under appreciated and demand a raise so their earnings and the comparable value they add to a business is more in balance. then people with higher pay-grade notice hey these guys used to earn a lot less than me wtf now they earn almost as much... and so on.
you can't fuck with the market without a domino effect or more like waves in a pond going left and right and colliding and all.

end result is inflation either way. not immediately it takes years but the purchasing power of min-wagers will fall back to where it was. that is the nature of market.

Well, we're told it can never ever be executive and shareholder greed. because reasons. And since services use labor, services use products produced by labor, and products are produced from materials extracted by labor...

I guess the question is more "how can NON-liberals be so stupid?"

everyone who says you're going to be paying 15 bucks for a hamburger due to a minimum wage increase doesn't remember econ 101

No one seems too be able too explain this.

>"how can NON-liberals be so stupid?"
i really lost track that who is liberal this year and what do the think about stuff. it became a meaningless word to me.

Alt-right is the new term de jour. And they are all over this thread..

Alt-right non-intellectuals, you could say.

i thought the altright was the /pol/ inclined literal faggot male supremacist bunch.
did i miss something?

Yes the price increase is due to inflation but higher wages wouldn't really make a huge dent in their profitability. If it makes them invest in robots, good. If not, they get a livable wage.

We need basic income.

Exactly. This board is mostly /pol/'s bitch. Who did you think had such profound insights and deep opinions?

There are right wing intellectuals? How do they get a word in edgewise between the religious nuts and the labor-is-worthless-but-how-dare-you-strike-omg-government-help-meeee lolbertarians?

social market economy > pure capitalist economy

faggot

capitalist economy = reward people based on performance
socialist economy = reward people based on needs

guess which one actually works! in socialism everyone just pretends to work and shits on everyone elses head because they get the same money and won't get fired anyways.

i remember when i was a kid i went to the grocery shop there was leftover bread from 2 days before and some fresh bread i could smell it. i wanted the fresh bread thy said no can do until there is leftover from previous days. of course the shop personnel did not bring home the 2 day old bread they took the fresh ones. everything was like that. everybody stole everything from their job they could and we had a secondary black market actually functioning where people provided value to each other. that is how you got shit done.

was a troll post to see how dense you really are. I said social, not socialist, you fruitbowl.

Get back to macro101.

Inflation is a side effect of a growing economy

This is basic economics.

>The social market economy was designed to be a third way between laissez-faire economic liberalism and socialist economics.
i see, that's basically what's going on in most developed countries.
my problem with it is i see a huge trend pushing everything to the left toward more state intervention more redistribution. and that is bad news. hopefully it will swing right back in a couple of decades.

>It's all based on exploitation.

Confirmed for fucking idiot.

>getting internships
>successful

I wish I was as naive as you are.

actually when the economy grows with the currency supply you don't have inflation.

Politicians can steal from that.

Polits set national minimum wage.
Most union contracts are based off minimum wage (ie, starting pay at 3 times minimum wage, and then scales from there).
Unions take forced dues from its members.
Unions then contribute dues to the politicians directly responsible for setting and raising the nation's minimum wage.

Under this money laundering set up, every time the politicians raise the minimum wage, they get larger political contributions and larger yearly gifts from the unions.

There's not going to be a $10 gallon of milk, they're just going to fire the guy that organizes the cart. Jobs that have easy tasks can be given to other employees.

lol fucking hell there is indeed nothing they can't touch.

Because all governments, where ever they are and whatever form they take, see that the answer to all problems is more government.

As government grows, the citizens lose freedoms and choices until eventually you end up in a nanny state where the government decides everything.

As long as the citizenry keep their government in check, they advoid this. But as citizens become more and more urbanized, it is easier for them to see how having government take care of things for them is a benefit to themselves. So they start demanding the government then do things TO OTHER PEOPLE because they don't like how those OTHER PEOPLE do things. Like smoke, or walk their dogs, or decide whether or not they'll cater a wedding.

But it is either that or Somalia, so what are you going to do?

You just described what happens here in Brazil.

The difference is that you don't choose whether or not you join a union, you are forced by law to pay union dues. The Worker's Party created this when Lula was the president, in exchange unions defend him and the party, Dilma is about to suffer an impeachment and they have even threatened to start chaos if it happens.

Such is the life on a socialist shithole, only the stupidest, most ill willed and rotten of people would wish socialism upon their own countries. Assuming you are american, these Bernie supporters will doom your country once the older traditionalist generations start to die off, get ready for it.

Same here in the US.

Even in places where you have the "right" not to join the union, if a union is in that workplace, they take the same amount of money out of your check as from a union member. In other words, if you are unfortunate enough to work in any kind of workplace with a union, you are effectively a union member "because". So far, our courts have decided that is perfectly legal, "because".

A lot of people need to have some form of work to function. And they don't have the brains to do voluntary work if they are on unemployment dole.

Also
>Live in country where everything is unionized
>No formal minimum wage, but there is tariffs for minimum
>Normal citizen dead end jobs is well paid

>But it is either that or Somalia
whatever happened to classical murrican libertarianism?

MPC vs MPS
Dipshit consumers raise prices
Not wage increases.
Pizza goes up, switch to tacos.
Wages increase, don't be a nigger. Save that shit.

If smoking causes cancer,
why doesn't cancer cause smoking?

kek
i guess it's more like why do we have lung cancer if we don't smoke?

True, I didn't put too much effort in it

Holy fuck, this entire thread is one massive shill endlessly shitposting with like two or three other supporting shitposters.

Incredibly, honestly trying to argue that Unions are a threat to anyone in the 21st century after the enormous union busting of the 1970's and 80's.

Its just one factor, another is inflation.

For example, we have Billion (with a B) dollar movies, but because of inflation, Movies are actually making less money than ever.