Did he do anything wrong?

Did these three ever get together and hang out

If Hitler wouldnt have sperged out so soon, mosley may have come to power and we would have historical photos of the three trying to outfash each other.

Mosley personally disliked Hitler and thought he was a bit of a prick for reasons largely unknown to us (one of the major issues with Sealion was finding any Brits willing to even consider running a collaborationist government), but the two did meet. Largely due to Mosley's second wife Diana being on good terms with Hitler, and her sister Unity belonging to Hitler's inner-circle (Diana and Unity attended the Nuremberg rally rather than Mosley). Mosley was however married to Cynthia at the home of Goebbels, with Hitler present - but not as best man as some rumours suggest.

Mosley and Mussolini however were on good terms, owing to both sharing a common political background, and Mosley's conversion to Fascism beginning with his leg in Italy on a European tour. Mosley took too largely publicised and documented trips to Italy (taking the salute from the armed forces rather than Mussolini on the second), but I highly doubt these were the only times the two met, and it's not out of the question that Hitler could have been present during a private trip involving the three men.

Mosley's first wife Cynthia not to be outdone by Diana, corresponded by letter often and visited once in Turkey, the then exiled Leon Trotsky.

he was a larper

The embarrassment that was the invasion of Ethiopia

Africa is a bitch

Not taking absolute power from the monarchy and proclaiming himself Emperor of Italy.

That was a highlight of his career. He conquered a country that his predecessors failed to do decades earlier and he just shrugged of the League of Nations when they got all pissed.

what are some good books i can read about him and his policies?

considering he ended up getting shot by communists and hung upside down in front of a crowd he must have gone wrong somewhere.

While it was a political and public relation success, it was a military embarassment because of how ineffective the italian army was. It was really, really shit. All the way through. The Ethiopian campaign was the only military campaign they managed to pull through in one piece, everywhere else they fucked up - unless accompanied by germans.

Mussolini by Jared Ridley. Interesting read and Mussolini was an interesting character. A teetoler, a hard worker and a fondness for socialist policies at heart. He started out as a socialist, but got caught up in the nationalism in WW1, which converted him to fascism.

It wasn't just Mussolini, the entire socialist movement fractured into Nationalist and Internationalist sides

The militaristic nature of fascism was a mistake.
While emphasis on strength and the state was a good thing, outright militarism and war fetishism was always going to lead to being BTFO

Can't help but view these two images in combo as "Two LARPers prance around wearing pseudo-military uniforms in front of soldiers while Oswald looks onwards disapprovingly, secure enough in his nationalism to just wear a normal suit."

I went into greater detail in the last thread but in short

+

-Handled the great depression issue fairly competently
-made headway in elimating the mafia
-drained the marshes and eliminated malaria as an issue in Italy
-established the vatican city
-was an expert fence sitter

-

-Screwed up the southern economy in his desire for autarcy
-stopped the iron prefect from actually ending the mafia
-allowed the military technology to stagnate
-failed to reform the officer core
-engaged in persecution sometimes goofy sometimes cruel of both the left and right

All in all when those lads pressured Hindenburg into appointing Hitler as Chancellor Mussolini was what they had in mind - a populist who was bound to the aristocracy

> "Two LARPers prance around wearing pseudo-military uniforms in front of soldiers while Oswald looks onwards disapprovingly, secure enough in his nationalism to just wear a normal suit."

They werent LARPers both Hitler and Mussolini were genuine soldiers, especially Hitler who had a more prestigious and courageous experiance than both of them put together.

Whilst he was running messages and getting gassed and shot at Mosley crippled himself after crashing an observation balloon whilst showing off to his mother and Mussolini got hit by a grenade in training.

While they were genuine soldiers before ascending to power, they were statesmen after that. I went with LARPers because it's the kind of impression I got, although it undersells them. [Basically playing dress-up, even if they once did it for real.]

On a point of technicality:
Wasn't Mosley's injury from crashing a fighter plane, not a balloon? [While indeed showing off to his mother like a very silly billy.]

>While they were genuine soldiers before ascending to power, they were statesmen after that. I went with LARPers because it's the kind of impression I got, although it undersells them. [Basically playing dress-up, even if they once did it for real.]

Yeah I see that, however I saw uniform wise I saw it more as them proudly showing off their important veteran status which at least in the Nazis cases was something that was a key part of their parites membership and rise to prominence.

Mussolini was nothing like Hitler.

Franco was basically Mussolini without the alliance.

Oh I double checked it and yeah it was a plane crash - I assumed it was ballons given how early his service as an observer was

No. Franco was very religious and made a huge part of his ideology while Mussolini was pretty anticlerical

At least he tried

>Mussolini's military experience is told in his work Diario di guerra. Overall, he totaled about nine months of active, front-line trench warfare. During this time, he contracted paratyphoid fever. His military exploits ended in 1917 when he was wounded accidentally by the explosion of a mortar bomb in his trench. He was left with at least 40 shards of metal in his body. He was discharged from the hospital in August 1917 and resumed his editor-in-chief position at his new paper, Il Popolo d'Italia. He wrote there positive articles about Czechoslovak Legions in Italy.
Mussolini: A Study In Power, Ivone Kirkpatrick, Hawthorne Books, 1964

Franco was a catastrophic boob that was a fascist in name only. He was willing to unleash Moorish dogs of war on the nation in the name of "muh monarchy".

His ideology had no trace of the modernism that was inherent Mussolini's fascism.

He wasn't a little girl

He was fat.

Was he Sicilian or just fat?

I trust the sources used on the more comprehensive Italian wiki page more desu which stated it was during a training exercise

IL DUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=OOv-Ncs7vQk

>especially Hitler who had a more prestigious and courageous experiance than both of them put together.
Really? IIRC, Mussolini gained a lot of prestige fighting in Alps.

And wasn't Hitler a messenger or something?

Franco was a reactionary. The FE-JONS party resembled much more Italian fascism.

>Really? IIRC, Mussolini gained a lot of prestige fighting in Alps.

Not as much, the prestigie seemed to be more based on how he handled his recovery in hospital.

>And wasn't Hitler a messenger or something?

Before being promoted to a messenger he served in the first battle of Ypres which was a horrifically bloody and dangerous battle (remeber all this took place over about 20 days)

>During the war, Hitler served in France and Belgium in the 16th Bavarian Reserve Regiment. He was an infantryman in the 1st Company during the First Battle of Ypres (October 1914), which is remembered in Germany as the Kindermord bei Ypern (Massacre of the Innocents) because approximately 40,000 men (between a third and a half) of nine newly enlisted infantry divisions were killed in 20 days. Hitler's regiment entered the battle with 3600 men and at its end mustered 611.[5] The regimental commander was killed and thereafter they were known as the Regiment List in his honor. By December Hitler's own company of 250 was reduced to 42.

After becoming a messenger whilst safer than his inital assignment was not without its dangers and it was here that he was shelled and hospitalized before later being hospitalized again after being hit with mustard gas.

When you look at Hitler his iron crosses weren't medals he awarded to himself like other leaders did.

>Did he do anything wrong?
yes
-made a pact with the industrialists and abandoned the corporatist principles which more 'radical' interpretations of fascism espoused
-established a personal dictatorship, such as...
-->making himself head of the army/navy/chief of staff in addition to making himself head of all the ministries. although in reality most of the work was done by deputy ministers, the lack of a competent head of ministry made it hard to coordinate the bureaucracy and the implementation of policy.
-->refusing to formulate a mechanism for succession which made him indispensable to the system he established but which caused much anxiety and betrayed a serious concern with institutionalizing the fascist state
-->when he did get involved in policy he didn't have the expertise to make sound decisions
-->he overestimated his popularity; his propagandizing was ultimately unsuccessful. his decision to align himself with Hitler was not popular; no Italians really wanted war or conquest to the extent that Mussolini did (Ethiopia was very popular but the Italians had a massive advantage and it was gained at relatively no cost) and when World War did come their response was utterly unenthusiastic.
-->Similar to the question of succession, Mussolini did not create formal organs of government that would transform it into a truly fascist government. Almost immediately Mussolini sidelined the black shirts, the ministry of corporations, the syndicates and more importantly the grand council of fascism (which desposed Mussolini in 1943 kek)

He was moe~

I can't tell if he's just being Italian or if he's actually putting in his own emotions and being genuine in his speech in making a greater and better Italy.

Is there anything weaboos haven't ruined?

Mussolini was definitely one of those dictators who cared a lot about their country, he seems pretty genuine in wanting to Make Italy Great Again

Yo gotta admit that hand movement is pretty Italian though

also forgot to add that mussolini loathed competitors or those he those whom he was jealous of. on the flip side he was pessimistic, even misanthropic, to the point that he trusted nobody and thought he could do everything himself. by surrounding himself with sycophants instead of wise counsel, his bad traits became accentuated more. in short he was a shit dictator who couldn't delegate power properly

this. i read the same in a different book. that greentext sounds like bullshit

It isn't, we don't do hand gesture like that, obviously. Mussolini exaggerated his hand gestures and facial expressions because they were meant to be seen by people in a crowd far away from him.

...

I never learned anything about Mussolini because my country's history classes (Netherlands) about this period are pretty much
>Germany was naughty
>We were naughty too
>BRAVE RESISTANCE HEROES who... mostly hid Jews in their basement. That's it.
>APOLOGIZE
>Oh, and Mussolini was there too... I guess

Can someone give me a tl;dr on Mussolini, especially his person and policies prior to allying Hitler?

>all these anglo whitebois haters

he at least brought stability to Italy, who had had 37 prime ministers in 60 years (i.e. pretty much from the time of unification).

He was actually not a bad leader, and if not for staying in power too long and allying with Hitler his reign would probably be regarded a necessary dictatorial period

Man, I never thought of it that way before.

In that bizzaro world Italy is the only major power untouched by the war. He probably could have got Tyrol out of as well if he jumped on the bandwagon in the last weeks of the war.

without WW2 Italy would have become Spain 2.0

Unlike Spain, it hadn't been raped by a civil war.

Spain wasn't much better before the civil war though, WW2 brought Marshall plan money to Italy after all and helped them to integrate with the rest of continental Europe

Invading Ethiopia for literally no reason

best case scenario would have been not invading Ethiopia, staying neutral in WW2 and Mussolini dying from some accident or resigning in the early to mid 1940s, allowing Christian democrats to get in power

>Mussolini dying from some accident or resigning in the early to mid 1940s, allowing Christian democrats to get in power
I mean, besides that, that's literally just Franco.

Which is ok, Franco was pretty cool.

Franco was a shittier leader in any case

Franco was pretty great though, his only real mistake was buckling to pressure from communist bog niggers before dying.

nah, too much conservatorism and catholicism

That's arguably how he kept it all together for so long, he wasn't a revolutionary like Mussolini.

The catholic bit may have been a bit silly though because
>spaniards
>catholic
>ever

keeping it together wasn't enough, change was needed

>change was needed
hrrrrrrmm

Spain has been on a steady downward slope ever since the constitution in 1978.

sure catching the train late doesn't help

Yeah instituted one of the worst version of national socialism
Protect the aristocracy while compleatly selling public assets to keep the party in power

You mean it as a good or bad thing? Italy is better off than spain these days

a bad thing

>Italy is better off than spain these days
as it has always been

Franco fucked up majorly by creating a dictorship based on himself rather than creating either a strong monarchy or other conservative institution or even simply the falange.

Whilst he made it easy for him to rule by squashing these groups his cucking of them ultimatley would guarantee the collapse of his successes on his death.

He did nothing wrong

Actually, on that note, are there any good reads on the rise of Nationalism and Fascism in post WWI Europe that don't demonize fascism, but treat it like any other political ideology.

I want to know more, but lots of it seems to be more about why fascism is bad, rather than what happened, where, why and with whom.

He killed 13% of all Ethiopians. Not sure if that counts.

He came to my grandmothers school in 1939 and picked her up to take a photo.

>Spain wasn't much better before the civil war though,
yes it was you idiot. read a book

Yeah

But those are ethiopians.

They've been irrelevant since time immemorial.

>>spaniards
>>catholic
>>ever
no. Franco instituted many policies favoring the church. There isn't anything that disqualifies spaniards as "true" catholics. you're argument sounds like muh scotsman.

and here I thought Hitler was the only lolicon at the time

>Claimed were the loss of 2,000 churches, the loss of 525,000 houses, and the slaughter and/or confiscation of six million beef cattle, seven million sheep and goats, one million horses and mules, and 700,000 camels.

>tfw glorious Franco won over the pinkos
>tfw Mussolini didn't protect Austria

VIENI A DIRMELO IN FACCIA MENAGRAMO E VEDREMO CHI NE AVRA SPEZZATE LE RENI

I like 1920s Mussolini, before he starts dressing like an imbecile.

Southern Italians deserve to suffer, and needed to get dragged into the industrial revolution, instead of serfs serving their Neapolitan and Sicilian masters.

youtu.be/tTXhez2mNmM

He sounds a lot like Berlusconi when speaking English.
youtu.be/pZ9P6s8WkKg?t=132

Could he actually speak English, or is that a script for him?

except mussolini did none of that. all that you mention happened after 1945, and even then not completely or immediately.

>"make america great"
oh shi-

Now we need a person to make America great again.

It might just be his tone but Mussolini has a much thicker accent. Some of the stuff he said I couldn't even make out.

I truly believe Mussolini cared about Italy, unfortunately he was not that competent. I mean truly he was one of Italy's better prime ministers, perhaps only a few being better. His succumbing to Hitlers racialist philosophy was bad, But you know i'd rather loose a war than be born a slav.

>just shrugged of the League of Nations when they got all pissed.
Couldn't be more wrong. He threw a massive hissy fit when they put sanctions on him even though they didn't shut the Suez canal which would have completely ruined the occupation of Ethiopia and he still cut all ties off with them and joined a pact with Hitler even though just a year before he was threatening to go to war with him if he didn't calm down.
Mussolini was an arrogant sperg and a massive idiot who never did anything good for Italy, he even made the economy worse during the great depression with his retarded quota 90 shit.

t. Amadeo Bordiga

>even though just a year before he was threatening to go to war with him if he didn't calm down.

Source

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stresa_Front

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Dollfuss
See the part on his assassination.

He made the trains run on time

Ethiopia was pretty relevant during that time though and before uf you bother to crack open a book idiot boy.