Basic Income

>ALSO, due to automation, masses of jobs are going to disappear, so even if people want jobs, there wont be enough.

love this meme. People like like to pretend that it's going to happen overnight and all jobs that could be automated will be within only a few years time.

No, it's a slow progressive shift, and people find new jobs.

What happened to all the map makers 200 years ago? What happened to all the people that manually did metal working? Those poor farm workers that harvest crops by hand! Oh no! Better give them all basic income!

So many things have been replaced by machines, but we're still doing fine and we will continue to do fine.

20,000 usd a year with no required labor

15 years of ching chong work in terms of exchange rate is handed to somebody every year with no labor to back it up.

I love it when leftists roleplay as economists.

Here's a nice little video on the topic;
youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

There won't be new jobs.

Once manual labor is mostly phased out, then the only real jobs left will be creative ones, and you only need to look at the music industry to understand that only a tiny portion of the human race can be successful in music. Same goes for other fields.

Cooool.

neet life here it comes!

You'll be living in a shitty apartment, likely with other people, eating shitty food. But if that's enough for you, go nuts!

>once manual labor is phased out

yeah, in 250 years? Yeah, ok. Again, people move on progressively and new jobs open up.

What about all the people that bred horses during the advent of the automobile.

What about people that made horse drawn carriages. With the assembly line pumping out so many cars a day, they'll all die!

Industries die all the time as new technology comes up, and PEOPLE ADAPT.

Watch the video dude.

It addresses all of your snide remarks.

Basic income is inevitable. At latest when 50% of the world's worforce is robot. But it's not happening too soon. People like to keep familiar structures.
I expect it for the next generation or the generation after that

I expect to see significant changes over the next 50 years.

The company that produces iPhones just fired 60,000 employees and replaced them with robots.

>nobel prize

> (You)
>You'll be living in a shitty apartment, likely with other people, eating shitty food. But if that's enough for you, go nuts!

I got savings from working until then tho.

Ill be nice and comfy

>this time, it's different
>Meet baxter
>he's the computer of the 1980s

wow, you sure got me with a still in development prototype!

Yes, we'll see manual labor jobs phased out in time, but that means that certain jobs aren't worth pursuing and higher jobs are.

Should I get basic income RIGHT NOW if I want to start a farm with people that manually pick crops instead of using harvesters?

No, because that would be stupid, and there is no point.

All of the stuff in this video is still expensive, still in development, and is decades from being used.

Their example of horses is also retardedly stupid. Humans are capable of great varied skill. Horses can only pull things.

This video is terrible and you're an idiot. Congrats

kek

I never understood how intelligent people are so delusional about the relationship most of society has with their work/money.

A basic income is a good idea if you are protecting a class of people, or maybe citizens with a few other conditions, but it is extremely easy to exploit the fuck out of the people who benefit from it. You'd have to change the entire culture and maybe structure of the economy long before you try it with any success. If you're just saying give everyone money regardless, it would only change the number going in and out of their accounts, not their lifestyle. And I bet many people would just leave their jobs and it would shit on production and services for many things.

Also it's completely retarded to even use "income" as the driving force to save all these poor little souls who can't read a book or two to support their families. If the intention is to provide security, opportunity and food for them, just make it free (not that this would work either in america).

>only musicians can be creative
lets assume you think for some reason that the entire world will be covered in robot populated metropolises with no more poor/undeveloped areas anywhere, in your lifetime.

well it would take every man on earth to plan, organize, assess, and monitor that shit.

in the extreme example that everyone has to go into the music or art industry, people would still get paid fine. right now tech is huge right? the vast majority of tech workers don't do anything valuable or successful. i work in pharma its the same shit. 150 employees here and maybe 1 or 2 are valuable in any way. we spent the last year just cleaning the labs/facility and checking that its clean, then rewriting a bunch of documents without any new information. if the economy shifted to some creative industry because time traveling robots with hoverboards from mars are doing all the manual labor and intelligent work, then the money would be in that industry to pay everyone in it. the way jobs work is that somebody has money and wants something done. if you think money will go away then the whole argument is pointless, but i'd call you a moron if you think people will stop thinking of things they want done.

the problem with basic income is that it will most likely restrict economic freedom as you'll be taxing profitable businesses to generate businesses that haven't proven themselves profitable yet. these businesses that are profitable can lobby to restrict you from being able to buy their competitor products or that you have to spend up to a capped amount per month or whatever you haven't used will be deducted from your account, not rolled over, and given back to the government/company.

What many people don't understand about Basic income is that it isn't simple welfare.

It is actually monetary reform. If not done, we will be stuck in a period of terminal deflation. This lack of money would "choke" the economy and impede human progress. You have a accept that "work" in the old sense is going away. The market can't just magically create jobs. Basic income will act as a monetary stimulator or perhaps front end demurrage. This will lead to the creative economy, which humans will finally be able to do the highest skilled and meaningful work.

There are no side effects of Basic Income.

There will still be innovation(even more than before)
There will not be laziness (research was done and it disproved this concern)
There is no such thing as "not affording it" (anyone who says so doesn't understand MMT)

what do you mean you don't want to be beholden to the company store?? you will take your mandatory income and you will like it. now buy our goods

Can you explain, how would you stop the continuous influx of foreigners from the third world into the first world countries?
Especially when you take into account the current tendencies in the developed countries (a.k.a "open borders" immigration policies).
Literally billions of people are going to flood the countries with the BI.
>inb4 muh wall

>It's coming in the next few decades.

Look around you (I assume you're american) and tell me that again with honesty

Because the way I see it going down is an expansion of our shoddy means tested welfare system and nothing more - they just need to keep us pacified enough not to notice our lives of quiet desperation - no way they hand out cash to the plebs

>New Ontario pension plan coming next year aka more taxes
>Carbon tax inc
>Free uni and college for immigrants
>Basic income coming in soon aka more tax for the working poor >Highest youth unemployment rate
>High cost of living

Whats the point of working anymore

Because you're a sociopath who belongs in a different time.

I grow weary of the regurgitation of these myths.

Just be glad you and your family weren't traded like chattel for 400 years, treated like second class citizens for another 100 years (see reconstruction, lynching, violence at the polls, and the sad, paranoid efforts by white men to keep black men as far away from their communities/women as possible), and even today they regularly get the shit end of the legislation stick with regards to education, zoning, policing, etc.

The socioeconomic ramifications of being kept down (and having the people keeping you down snidely remark that it's all your fault) often lead to substance abuse, and mental illness, and is it any surprise that addictive substances are advertised and pushed by corporations most often in poor, minority neighborhoods? It's almost like white WANT this perception of blacks to continue. It's almost like they don't want it to be fixed so they can continue to have a convenient cultural scapegoat, resulting in such statements as "We can't have wellfare, just look at the nig-nogs."

Not to mention the countless things the CIA has done to the black community. See the Tuskegee airmen to see how black war heroes are treated.

But you'll just say I'm some whining SJW buzzword reddit villain and will continue to insist that an entire demographic of people are leeches, while failing to even consider what statements like yours do to their psychology.

It's almost like it's impossible for you to believe that depression, mental illness, and your own society hating you for no good reason could some how result in cultural stagnation.

But no worries. It's only because you're a piece of shit.

>Either basic income gets implemented (or something similar), or society collapses and billions of people die.

That's the most bullshit thing i've seen in quaite a while.

...

*quite

see It's okay, You can continue to socipathically want everyone else to fail and suffer, tho.

>Just be glad you and your family weren't traded like chattel for 400 years, treated like second class citizens for another 100 years (see reconstruction, lynching, violence at the polls, and the sad, paranoid efforts by white men to keep black men as far away from their communities/women as possible), and even today they regularly get the shit end of the legislation stick with regards to education, zoning, policing, etc.

Go whine somewhere else. Slavery continues to exist to this very day in Africa and many peoples in history have gotten even worse deals than American blacks. In this day and age, that race card bullshit should be disregarded as soon as it's tried.

It's a brilliant idea, and will transition us well into an era of otherwise overwhelmingly rapid technological advancement.

This board isn't /pol/.

You want the good life? Go out and get it. Nothing is a given and it's an uphill fight all the way to improve your position. I sure as hell am not where i want to be in life, but i'll be damned if a bunch of inept lazy motherfuckers who can't be bothered to get their heads out of their asses get free money for doing nothing while myself and others are working hard to get somewhere.

You'll get the free money too. And you'll get more out of your work since this incentivizes paying people more (as they have the option just not to work).
Universal Income is not like welfare where you won't get it and only some people will.
Your argument is unsubstantial.

If at all possible, i'd take the option to refuse the money. To me it's a personal insult.

Of course people have gotten it worse, you piece of shit. That was longer ago, in further away places, and the effects of it aren't still lingering in America.

That doesn't justify anything, and I'm not pulling a race card.

The things you say are stupid. And I'm not whining. You even went exactly for the rhetorical line I said you were gonna go for, that's how uncreative you are, and how little effort you're putting into backing up your vile statements, while there's mountains of evidence on my side.

The only shock is that people who unironically whine about "welfare niggers" from a place of comparative privilege exist.

So you'd rather destroy the economy than have someone not have to work at McDonald's? The economy is shitty because of wage stagnation that's hurting consumer demand. To have "an economy" in the first place you need flow of money, but that doesn't work anymore with extreme capital crystallization.

>>inb4 muh wall
Exactly.
T R U M P

Donate it to charity

>You want the good life? Go out and get it.
No shit. I have been.
>Nothing is a given and it's an uphill fight all the way to improve your position

I know. I don't need this condescending speech every time I point out that there's injustices that need to be fixed in our society. It's almost like you guys want to believe that everyone starts out level 1 with the exact same skills.

>. I sure as hell am not where i want to be in life, but i'll be damned if a bunch of inept lazy motherfuckers who can't be bothered to get their heads out of their asses get free money for doing nothing while myself and others are working hard to get somewhere.

The oligarchy has tricked you into fighting and resenting lazy lower-class people while their financial crimes of hoarding and tax evasion, which do much more damage in the long term, go unnoticed.

In America, the vast majority of welfare benefits require that you be working, and that you be incredibly poor. Those benefits can be taken away on a moment's notice. Even the most cunningly lazy people I've met accrue relatively few benefits compared to incredibly rich people, And those lazy people fight constantly to keep being lazy, often they fight harder than they would have to work, and so it's a pointless struggle. The rich meanwhile often inherit a lifetime's worth of basic income because of what their father or grandfather did, and then use it to buy up means of production, hire wage-slaves in third world countries, hide their taxes offshore, and live a life of incredible leisure for no effort at all.

As for the bureaucratic effort of setting that all up, they hire middle-class people to do that white-collar labor for them.

I'm so tired of watching working class people turn a hateful eye to people one step below them on the ladder while ignoring corporate welfare and the schemes of the rich. You've fallen right into their trap. They want us to resent each other. It's the oldest trick in the book.

Tough fucking shit and too fucking bad. Deal with it.

Make me laugh everytime when i read this now tired script and realize the increasing numbers of Hispanics who know of but simply don't give a shit about the history of racial relations in the US. They have their own problems and issues. Also, quite a number of Chicano gangs in LA have quite an anti-Black agenda but you sure don't hear much about it in the world at large.

That's a damn good idea.

hahaha that stupid 20 billion dollar wall That he's apparently going force mexico to pay an entire year of their GDP for.

And they said universal health care was a pipe dream.

Not to mention the effort it will take to forcibly round up and deport 11 million people.

Fucking naive kids listening to a corporate populist who's only in it for himself. He will use the presidency as the most advanced lobbying platform of all time.

Yea I still don't understand why this isnt painfully obvious. Mental illness and poverty and drug abuse are not just likely, but guaranteed among any group of people who have been systematically downtrodden.

> but my white family was poor and they worked hard and now they have money!

That's great! I love it. Study after study shows, however, that lower social class and income is significantly correlated with drug abuse and mental illness. Yes, white people and Asians too. Now tell me, wtf do people expect when the black wealth in this country is and black income are significantly lower than average? White people in power know this virtually guarantees that the black stereotypes continue, which is why many politicians who rely on prejudice to get elected (read: Republicans in redneck areas) are inclined not to do anything about wealth gaps.

So next time you see some broke nigger smoking crack and blasting shit tier rap, know that you voted for this to continue.

That sucks that minorities are tearing each other down.

I also know that people murder more often in their own race (even though Trump pulled up /pol/ made statistics the other month saying otherwise and got the nation vomiting up unscientific data)

Doesn't change that the things I'm talking about are still wrong.

You keep going "look at this other wrong stuff" as though it invalidates the wrong stuff I'm talking about. And I keep acknowledging what you're talking about and going "uh-huh. that's right." while you fail time and time again to acknowledge what I'm saying on even the most basic level except

"u whine bitch."

You're an idiot.

>I also know that people murder more often in their own race (even though Trump pulled up /pol/ made statistics the other month saying otherwise and got the nation vomiting up unscientific data

It was a copy/paste error in the non relevant column. And it was cripplechan who made it.

>Also, who is going to pay for this?

People who work.

The nobel prize lost all credibility when they gave Obama one.

Why would anyone work if they don't have to and there is no benefit to doing so?

Once we invent a replicator and limitless energy people will work for the betterment of themselves. Or die of the beetus. I'm not sure which.

Welfare was designed in a way to decimate black families and keep them voting for gimmedats. A basic income might actually help in that regard since now the man is no longer required to be out o the picture, but all other forms of aid must be abolished if done.

Obviously yep, with basic income all aid forms would be eliminated. No more welfare and stuff. Not sure what would happen to social security desu. I guess it could be eliminated just fine right?