Celsus writings record that Jesus was fathered by a Roman soldier called Panthera

>A historical connection from this soldier to Jesus of Nazareth has been hypothesized by James Tabor, based on the claim of the ancient Greek philosopher Celsus, who said that some Jews claimed Jesus was the result of an affair between his mother Mary and a soldier. He said she was "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Panthera".
>hypothesized by James Tabor, based on the claim of the ancient Greek philosopher Celsus, who said that some Jews claimed Jesus was the result of an affair between his mother Mary and a soldier
>based on the claim of the ancient Greek philosopher Celsus, who said that some Jews claimed Jesus was the result of an affair between his mother Mary and a soldier
>said that some Jews claimed Jesus was the result of an affair between his mother Mary and a soldier
>some Jews claimed Jesus was the result of an affair between his mother Mary and a soldier
>some Jews claimed
>some Jews
>Jews

Tanakh, ew gross.
Also if you want to check prophetic passages - check the Qumran scrolls - they agree with Septuagint ( Greek ancient translation of original long lost hebrew texts ), actually all scrolls that came from before Christ birth just simply disagree with how messianic passages and written in modern masoretic text - it just shows how desperate your rabbinic cult really is.

In what way?

>How does prophecy prove the virgin birth when independent unbiased sources show that Jesus father was the Roman soldier Panthera?
Nigga, Celsus said we worshipped demons and ate babies.

>Also if you want to check prophetic passages - check the Qumran scrolls - they agree with Septuagint

Except they don't. Here, for instance, is a Qumrani Isiaah scroll.

dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah

Notice how it agrees with the Masoretic and not the Septuagint? Funny that.

...

?

Hello /pol/

It's interesting you think mortgages that enable ordinary people to buy a house are the result of a Jewish conspiracy surrounding a 2006 book.

Did you have any non-batshit crazy points that you wanted to make?

>Nigga, Celsus said we worshipped demons and ate babies.

You can't seriously be suggesting ancient sources shouldn't be taken at face value!

But if you don't take sources at face value, you won't be able to deal with all the problems in the Gospels, and then where would you be?

Well go to Isaiah 7:14 it reads from the scrolls you just posted - VIRGIN - yet your texts read women, because it was not comfortable - it was so obvious in there that you had to remove it in order to perpetuate your cult.

Column VI Isa
29.[{Behold}] the virgin shall conceive and bring forth a son and he shall call his name Immanuel. (15) Butter [{and honey}]

Sure there are parts where masoeretic text agrees with older scrolls but not in messianic prophecies - in other aspects like when king of Sodom told Abraham to keep the horses.. in reality it's the goods.

I study the masoretic text often - because it developed in its own direction and it sometimes give an interesting perspective over some verses - but over all LXX is the core of research and faith - even Jesus Christ quoted from LXX, and he spent his whole life making chairs and tables and never wrote anything.

whats the source of the comic?

According to the bible the messiah has to be a descendant of king david. But jesus was born of a virgin who was not a descendant of david, so he can't be the messiah.

Hell what's funny is that in some places in LXX it's not obvious that various passages are a messianic prophecy but in Masoretic it's even more obvious... really funny.

Anyway no time or energy to care about your cult, it's small and insignificant - there are more Christian heretics today that are the real problem...

Every scholar takes texts that slanders a certain group with a grain of salt..
Except mister "i am gonna base my argument on an anti-christian writer that took his argument from a smear campaign by some jews".

>But if you don't take sources at face value, you won't be able to deal with all the problems in the Gospels

Why?

In other words we can ignore all the gospels as a smear campaign against Jews for claiming they were responsible for Jesus' death.

On the other hand Celsus was an unbiased Greek historian unbiasedly recording the truth.

Marry couldn't be a descendant of David?

>Well go to Isaiah 7:14 it reads from the scrolls you just posted

How can I tell you didn't look at the link? It's almost like they didn't provide trasnslations.

And let's not forget that the text in 7:14 says that she HAS conceived (literally been inseminated with the masculine conjugation) and that she WILL give birth in the future, and that the Qumrani version says that I, the speaker, (i.e. Isaiah) will name him Immanuel, which means that the kid is Isaiah's and his wife is pregnant at that moment.

So once again, the Christian is wrong. Shocker.

>Sure there are parts where masoeretic text agrees with older scrolls but not in messianic prophecies - in other aspects like when king of Sodom told Abraham to keep the horses.. in reality it's the goods.

I have no idea what you're talking about. If you're talking about Genesis 14:21, the Masoretic text gives

> וַיֹּאמֶר מֶלֶךְ-סְדֹם, אֶל-אַבְרָם: תֶּן-לִי הַנֶּפֶשׁ, וְהָרְכֻשׁ קַח-לָךְ

And the king of Sodom said to Abram, (He's not Abraham yet) "give me the souls, and of the goods take for yourself". Care to explain why you think רְכֻשׁ
means "horses"?

>I study the masoretic text often

And yet you don't seem to know its contents. That's a special brand of pathetic.

>even Jesus Christ quoted from LXX,

Yeah, it's almost like the Gospels were written decades later by a greek speaking community or something. It's totally not like they didn't have a fucking clue about the local languages. John certainly didn't claim in chapter 19 that a number of obviously Aramaic words were in fact Hebrew.

>Why?

Well, if you start asking questions like why don't the Gospel writers know basic facts about the geography and current religious climate of the 1st century Judea, why John can't tell the difference between Aramaic and Hebrew, why Mark misquotes extant Jewish law, why Matthew quotes nonexistant prophecies, and why he and Luke give conflicting geneologies for Jesus, and why each and every one of them gives a different claim for what Jesus's last words on the cross were, you might come to the conclusion that they weren't written by actual eyewitnesses inspired by God to be perfect. And without that, you don't have much left of a Christainity.

bump for sauce!

>identifying the antichrists makes you /pol/
Not really.

See btw.

kek.

Alien comes out as a raging anti-semite.

Damn stop - it's been 2000 years, it's awkward... please stop you're literally brainwashed - I thought protestants and bapsits were brainwashed but no... rabbinic cultists have to be the worst.

There's no reason, no facts - nothing - it's the lies you're brainwashed with and trough them you try to modify everything, alter it to suit your lies.

It's funny that you used your Hebrew text to explain a passage, really comical. Doesn't help your lost cause in any way.

In Septuagint it is written horses, your Hebrew word for fast horses rekheș have the same consonant with the word used for goods... I've actually made quite clear in first post that I said there are mistakes in LXX as well it's not the holy sacred, absolute text.

For example in 21:16 Hebrew text - reveal that mother of Hagar is crying, which is more logical considering that Ishmael was 15 years old when Abraham told them to leave his house.
In Septuagint it says that the child was crying. And this is one example that came to mind, that's why studying both texts is optimal.

You seem to underestimate power of God - He does not have to fashion a penis to impregnate a woman - He can do it with His intention, and fashion the required seed inside Mary womb.

But that was obvious - God Almighty is omnipotent.

I'm really tired, If I felt better I would've argued with you more over clarity of messianic verses in Qumran and other scrolls, I've studied it personally long time ago and I've recorded my findings in an agenda.

Maybe another day with another zealous rabbinic cultist.

I'm anti-antichrists.

If I hated jews I'd hate the Holy Family, Apostles and faithful early Christians.

Come back anytime. Take a nap. I wouldn't want you to bring less than your a-game.

>If I hated jews I'd hate the Holy Family, Apostles and faithful early Christians.

Oh right. So it's just modern Jews and Jews that weren't part of early Christianity you hate.

Good clarification.

I did not say: "the only jews I don't hate are..."

Don't put words in my mouth. Are you jewish?

>You seem to underestimate power of God - He does not have to fashion a penis to impregnate a woman - He can do it with His intention, and fashion the required seed inside Mary womb.

Kinky stuff.

Is it just me, or do they make god look like Chuck Norris?

>I did not say: "the only jews I don't hate are..."

No you described them as "anti-christs" defended an anti-semitic post and linked to your own anti-semitic posts in order to do so and when challenged said "I don't have a problem with Jesus and his chums".

>Are you jewish?

That makes a big difference to you does it?

Here's the relevant stuff.

imgur.com/a/3yK8a#6

It's side story in some other comic that I can't remember the name of.

the invisible sky magician is not real

>you described them as "anti-christs"
"them" ----> antichrists

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. (1Jn2:22-23)

>an anti-semitic post
It is my post and there is nothing anti-semetic about it. It is simply about antichrists.
>linked to your own anti-semitic posts
See above.
>That makes a big difference to you does it?
You tell me. Are you jewish?

This is your post and there is nothing anti-semitic about it?

You disgust me, Alien!

What's that got to do with these....

Did you get the thread a little bit mixed up? lol.

>A historical connection from this soldier to Jesus of Nazareth has been hypothesized by James Tabor, based on the claim of the ancient Greek philosopher Celsus, who said that some Jews claimed Jesus was the result of an affair between his mother Mary and a soldier. He said she was "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Panthera".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius_Iulius_Abdes_Pantera

Is wikipedia anti-semetic?

This post I made is about this article and OP's claim.

What's that got to do with these....

Did you get the thread a little bit mixed up? lol.

...

>This post I made

You made the post ranting about Jews and about how mortgages are a Jewish conspiracy to do with Richard Dawkins.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Oh dear, Alien, you are priceless.

I made the post, not the pic. I made this one though.

Stop shitposting buddy.

I know it's from Doc Frankenstein but can't remember the issue.

Doc Frankenstein #6

>I just posted the pic in post ranting and raving about Jews

It's like you are trying to humiliate yourself! Kek. This is brilliant.

>Implying Yahweh seduced Mary

Yeah, no, he straight up raped that bitch.

He only raped her at first, user.

>copying and pasting two sentences from wikipedia
>ranting and raving about jews
You're the one who's embarassing himself user.

See >This post I made

he's saying that it's from wikipedia you fucking retard

I don't see any Wikipedia entries about how mortgages are a Jewish conspiracy involving a 2006 book that end with "JEWS, JEWS, JEWS", my slow witted chum.

Wow, you got blown the fuck out and didn't have an argument, so you went straight to brainwashed.

I don't think the atheists claiming that Jesus never existed are the same ones claiming Mary wasn't a virgin, though it's entirely possible for both to be true.

>You tell me. Are you jewish?

Why should he tell you when you wont even own up to your own nationality?

No, it has to be through the patrilinial side.

My nationality isn't important; Christ and His enemies are though.

You are the enemy of Christ, goy.

Paul is the great deceiver and the true anti-Christ.

Then why is other people's ethnicity so important?

If you talk about nationality then it's Israelian if you live in Israel, or w/e country you were born in.
You can be ethnically a Jew - if so you desire, but being a Jewish have to do allot more with the religion - a Jew is an active member of Jewish community.

One of my Jew teachers talked about this
He said some Roman fathered Jesus and died in Germany
I dismissed it as Jewish lies but is this the same guy?

You sure?
I know Jewishness is passed through the mother not the father

Not him, but yes. Jewishness passes through the mother, but tribal affiliation and inheritance passes patrilineally.

>Roman soldier called Panthera

Do you mean Sex Panthera?
Cause 60% of the time, he's the father every time.

/thread

Panthera is a pun it mean Father in law in greek, when the jews called Jeus "Ben Panthera" they wanted to mean that he was the son of his Father in law aka Joseph, they basically denied his divine ascendance.

Because your life is irrelevant. And you care about irrelevant things.

This

It was a lie made up by Jewish rabbis so they could continue denying the Messiah

>Don't fulfill Messianic prophecies
>Do 'fulfill' vague statements that could literally apply to anyone and sentences taken from non-prophetic parts of the Tanakh.
>GUISE HE'S TOTALLY THE MESSIAH GUYS WHY ARE YOU ALL SO BLIND?

How could the Messiah not fulfill Messianic prophecies - there's a fallacy in your logic.

Both Isiah 53 and psalm 22 - show clearly the Messianic aspect of Jesus - look at dead sea scrolls.

What is amazing that usually some quotes used in new testament - appear to be different in Masoretic text, while the dead sea scrolls show the respective passages in the same structure LXX still holds today ( LXX being the one used by early Christians and today Orthodox Church - the only Church ).

b-but Jews and Christians aree the samme!

Jews just ignore everything after the Books of Moses!

Israel is our greatest ally!

We're all men of the same booK!

Fucking hell Jews will always be parasites won't they?

...

>How could the Messiah not fulfill Messianic prophecies - there's a fallacy in your logic.

How could a guy who didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies be the Messiah is the much more natural flaw in yours.

>Both Isiah 53

You mean the extended monologue that starts in the previous paragraph and is talking aobut the City of Zion?

> psalm 22

Psalms. Are. Not. Prophecy. They were not written by prophets. They were not put in a prophetic part of the work.

>What is amazing that usually some quotes used in new testament - appear to be different in Masoretic text,

You know what's really amazing? There are quotes used in the New Testament, from supposed authentic Judeans, which can't tell the difference between Hebrew and Aramaic, like John 19:13. It's almost like, and wait for this, the Greek written manuscripts were written by people who spoke and read Greek as their first language and used a Greek bible.

> while the dead sea scrolls show the respective passages in the same structure LXX still holds today

Except when they don't. Funny how that part always gets skipped over.
OP

I like those odds.

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Panthera

And who says they aren't prophetic? Modern day rabbinical Judaism? Yeah, I'm sure their opinion counts for a lot.

More than yours does.

Actually, even pre"Rabbinical" Judaism, given that with a few named exceptions, they're attributed to David, who wasn't a prophet.

According to Daniel 9 the Messiah was supposed to be "cut off" and to arrive before the destruction of the second temple. Do you have any other candidates you'd like to propose?

And why couldn't David have recieved inspiration regarding the future just because he wasn't a full-on prophet?

I looks like the "messiah" never showed up. Who ever would have thunk such a shocking possibility?

or we could say the prophecies themselves are also bogus

Sure. If you like. The question, though, is directed at fellow Jews or at people who buy into their arguments not at atheists.

Your information comes from a known heretic disputing an obvious heretic.

Do you really think that a "young woman giving birth to a boy" is a sign to the world that something miraculous had happened?

hmm... in that situation they could go full Origen and say that the prophecies are metaphors for some deeper truth

So, even though Jesus showed up and was cut off exactly 483 years after the event Daniel prophesied, you think there is no messiah.

Exactly 483 years, to the day.

Daily Reminder that Origen is a known heretic.

that's not the whole prophecy

even so, he is constantly used to defend the idea that the church has always not taken Genesis 1 literally