Muslims of Veeky Forums

Assimilate how

not wanting to shoot up a nightclub in the name of god for starters.

Bid3a kaffir learn to logic before sucking cock

What's illogical about this?

your cool

Learn logic before following your bloody warchief Mohammad

You can't reform the religion if it's against the core of the religion. Seriously kaffir try harder at pretending to be a Muslim

>atheist
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Well if that's your definition of assimilation, then a lot of people have already done that. Islam does indeed need a reformation, specifically in terms of the attitude of Muslims worldwide. The fact that there's no central body to govern what Muslims should believe and not believe, there's no authority to reform, so it would be a shit storm with essentially each individual scholar/imam having his own interpretation, which what the current situation is essentially.

> implying i am atheist

off yourself

>atheist lying
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> when a muslim has no arguments
Oh boy! I sure can't wait for pic related!

>atheist role playing
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Sunni Muslim here, AMA

>meme that is constantly spewed of Islam being a "religion of peace"?

Which meme? The fact that "religion of peace" is used ironically by people who know nothing about Islam?

>neo liberal progressive Muslims

wtf does that even mean? shut up.

> have come across a few violent passages in the Quran
> they completely dismiss it.

No, we don't. We don't view the Quran like a list of rules. it's a contextual, historical text. The violent texts in the Quran are texts that arose when the Meccan pagans declared a war of extermination against the Muslims. The Muslims allied with 2 pagan tribes, and 2 Jewish tribes in Medina (one Jewish tribe betrayed the alliance) and the Muslims were told the defend themselves against the Meccans.

>going on about how Islam should never be altered,

Not true. There are 4 major schools of thought, and a bunch of different sects. And only 1 major school of thought says it shouldn't be altered. and even then, they say the QURAN shouldn't be altered. Islam not being altered would mean we should be living life like tribal Arabs in 650, not using any technology or speaking a different language. It's more complicated than your psuedo-intellectualism.

>said act is immediately labelled as "not a true Muslim"

This was a crazy guy who happened to be Muslim. Most Muslims haven't shot up gay clubs. a vast majority, actually. Muslims have lived in the US for decades, in large communities. New York has more gays and Muslims condensed side by side, and shit like this didn't happen there. but by your shitty logic, it should've already happened several times.

My opinion is this is much more complicated and people are varied and do shitty things all the time, inside and outside of Islam. Islam isn't a monolith. It's extremely different from mosque to mosque, community to community. It's a fluid religion, and has fit very well into western society. If anything, this shooter did something very American.

> being pic related

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>wtf does that even mean? shut up.

Pretty self explanatory.

>The violent texts in the Quran are texts that arose when the Meccan pagans declared a war of extermination against the Muslims. The Muslims allied with 2 pagan tribes, and 2 Jewish tribes in Medina (one Jewish tribe betrayed the alliance) and the Muslims were told the defend themselves against the Meccans.

Applying your own interpretation to a myriad of examples of violence in the Quran doesn't work. There's many examples in the Quran which don't fit your interpretation of those verses being "for that time period".

>Islam not being altered

Looks like the attitudes haven't changed in 1400 years though.

>Most Muslims haven't shot up gay clubs

The attitudes of Muslims towards gays is pretty self explanatory as well. Please don't play the "not all Muslims card". It's old now.

>islam is a religion of peace

It's a literal meme saying in some muslims areas. It comes about because the word for 'submission' and the word for 'peace' both share the same etymological root word ('islam' literally means 'submission').

peace = salaam
submission = islam

It's kind of like saying "you can't spell 'trust' without 'us' :^)"

*the religion

exactly what a Sunni practicing taqqiyah would say

I can't practice taqqiyah though.

To the communists party, peace was then absence of resistance to socialism. To snackbar reactionaries, peace is the absence of resistance to sharia. This means the moderate Muslims are the first "scrutinized*

And it's not to "confuse and lull" it's used to survive since sunnis literally tried to genocide all shias and they had to adapt.

Sunni Muslim here. No, it's retarded to think Islam is a religion of peace. However, I genuinely believe it does not condone wanton/unnecessary violence and advocates for rule following/adhering to the status quo above all else.

There is no religion of peace in my opinion.

However, the current ails of Muslim society stem from the works of the Sheikhs ibn Taymiyyah, ibn Qayyim, and Binabdel Wahhab, which call for a "traditionalist interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah" (code for lets kill anyone who disagrees with us), which is the ideology (Salafism) both ISIS and US ally Saudi Arabia have.

So long as S Arabia exports its nonsensical ideology, there will be no peace in Islam.

...

exactly what a Sunni practicing taqqiyah would say

Taqiyyah is an interpretation of the Quran allowing Muslims to lie in the face of extreme persecution, I.e. Elliot Rodger 2.0 comes to school with an AK and starts killing off Muslims, some schools of Islam say that it is permissible to deny being Muslim rather than dying.

...

>You can't reform the religion if it's against the core of the religion. Seriously kaffir try harder at pretending to be a Muslim
Bull shit. Christianity was redesigned bottom up, by the Romans, to be a tool of oppression. In medieval times the Muslims in many places where so tolerant that they allowed atheists to publish papers. In fact the concept of secularism is a Islamic one. Compare this to Europe where up until the enlightenment no god = deaded

You are funny with that "evil pagan"war. After the retreat in Medina, Muhammad started raiding camel caravans that went to and from Mecca. This is why Mecca tried to stop him.

Muslims of Veeky Forums

Why don't you go to /pol/ and start Jihadding over there

Convert them infidels

We didn't start this thread, we're answering questions posited by the OP. Why don't you go back to /pol/ instead?

I'm not a muslim anyway.

Its not raiding when you try to get your stuff back

Literally didn't understand anything

That's the best one I heard so far.

"I attack innocent merchants and pilgrims, (even when I was myself a cael caravaneer and a pilgrim) because I have been expulsed from a city in which I became a social menace."

...

I was forgetting something. El Hajjah, when he bombarded Mecca with catapults, was he claiming something back too? Even when the local government was muslim, though they weren't sided with Damascus?

Nobody said "Islam is a religion of peace" except people saying it sarcastically to criticize Islam. It's supposed to be something Muslims say all the time but they really don't.

Islam isn't a religion of peace it has pretty clear rulings on war.

>know a lot of Muslims, especially these moderate neo liberal progressive Muslims have come across a few violent passages in the Quran, but when asked to speak on the topic, they completely dismiss it. Muslims are always going on about how Islam should never be altered, or how traditional Muslim values should never be discarded, but whenever a tragedy ensues by the hands of a Muslim, the individual performing said act is immediately labelled as "not a true Muslim"
Does it matter? Murdering random civilians is definitely not endorsed by the Quran.

To be precise, I'm referring to El-Hajjah Ibn Youssuf, the Ummayad caliphate governor.

Pew Research also did a poll asking if people supported ISIS and overwhelmingly they said no, despite ISIS wanting to bring about that sort of Caliphate.

Secondly, notice how those are all Sunni states (except for Azerbaijan which has the lowest support for Shari'a). This calls back to what I said in this post: There is a terrible movement in the Sunni sect perpetrated by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which is supported by America. As long as the US is funding the Saudis, Salafi terrorism will not cease--no country on earth will be safe.

So what you're saying is, is that Muslims are the true manipulative jews of the world.

So as much as their weird backward laws might be supported by them, almost all of them do not support terrorism.

Got it.

>You are lying
>No I'm not and here's why
>Thats a lie!
Impossible to beat that logic, i suppose.

pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

see for yourself

yea, that's the problem with being a liar.
maybe you shouldnt have introduced it tin the first place.

It's not a meme, eastern and original definition of peace differ from the newly created western one.
For more information look how mongols replied to the pope letters when he was looking for peace for christians.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_non_solum

Cum non solum was a letter written by Pope Innocent IV to the Mongols on March 13, 1245. In it, Pope Innocent appeals to the Mongols to desist from attacking Christians and other nations, and inquires as to the Mongols' future intentions.[1] Innocent also expresses a desire for peace (possibly unaware that in the Mongol vocabulary, "peace" is a synonym for "subjection").[2]

This message was carried by the Franciscan John of Plano Carpini,[3] who successfully reached the Mongol capital of Karakorum, where he attended the election of the new Khan Güyük on August 24, 1246.[4]

Guyuk, who had little understanding of faraway Europe or the Pope's significance in it, other than that the Pope was sending a message from an area that the Mongols had not yet conquered, replied to the Pope's letter with a fairly typical Mongol demand for the Pope's submission, and a visit from the rulers of the West in homage to Mongol power:[5]

"You must say with a sincere heart: "We will be your subjects; we will give you our strength". You must in person come with your kings, all together, without exception, to render us service and pay us homage. Only then will we acknowledge your submission. And if you do not follow the order of God, and go against our orders, we will know you as our enemy."
—Letter from Güyük to Pope Innocent IV, 1246.[6][7]

>

you didn't get it. at all.

Compare graphs like these with pollings done in secular countries and you'll realize there is a strong connection between le religion of peace and terrorism

Glad to read that from a Muslim. You sumed up my opinion, more or less.

>guy who happened to be Muslim. Most Muslims haven't shot up gay clubs. a vast majority, actually. Muslims have lived in the US for decades, in large communities. New York has more gays and Muslims condensed side by side, and shit like this didn't happen there. but by your shitty logic, it should've already happened several times.
>My opinion is this is much more complicated and people are varied and do shitty things all the time, inside and outside of Islam. Islam isn't a monolith. It's extremely different from mosque to mosque, community to community. It's a fluid religion, and has fit very well into western society. If anything, this shooter did something very American.

Atheist here. I don't like Christianity and I don't like Islam.

That said, Christianity's key figure was non-violent and let himself be killed for God instead of starting a violent movement to kill non-believers.

While the key figure of Islam basically led a war of extermination and no forgiveness to his enemies. And he is considered very perfect from my understanding.

How can you reconcile the religion to be a religion of peace when its founder exterminated entire tribes just because they backstabbed him where in Christianity they taught forgiveness even to those who are not of the faith.

Which I meant to say... Even if Islam isn't a monolith, why to they all put Muhammad on a pedestal.

Unless you are saying there are some Muslims who think the wars of extermination were wrong.

That's an interesting way to spin a poll showing that 584 million Muslims believe murder is the right response to apostasy

Mate don't be a cuck.

No, I'm just saying that religions are ideological viruses that build up their own immunities to skepticism by employing the use of various techniques (promise of heaven, threat of hell, license to lie, etc.)

I'm a Muslim who immigrated young to the West. My thoughts are as follows:

There are, classically and historically, several different religious traditions that have fallen under the label of Islam. And I don't simply mean the legal schools or the Sunni-Shi'a divide, but subcultures. You have the aforementioned legal tradition, itself split into the imperialist and the antinomian schools of thought. You have the aristocracy, the upper class of Islamic societies throughout the ages whose practice of religion differed substantially from the commoners, the masses made up of the lower classes of Islamic society. And you have the border culture, those who live on the theoretical edge of Islamdom and find meaning and purpose in raids and conflict with everyone around them.

The debate between whether Islam is a religion of peace or not seems to me a modern battle between followers (and their non-Muslim supporters/detractors) of two of the above traditions over which is the 'true' Islam. In times past these conflicts were subdued thanks to segregation, both natural and man-made, but today the rise of the modern state, communications, and travel has forced them all together. Thus for those who faithfully profess they are Muslim and their faith is a religion of peace, if they're not just signaling for whatever reason, they mean to say that they themselves are a nonviolent person who comes from an Islamic background of some kind, and are attempting to define their belief as the right and correct, and maybe only, Islam. Meanwhile those who believe they are Muslim and are violent are much the same, only theirs is a tradition of expansionism, imperialism, and so on, and they push their own views as the one true form of Islam.

The difference is less religious and more cultural. Like the difference between an American liberal from a bustling city and an American conservative from a small town.

wow how did they interview a billion people

>You can't reform the religion if it's against the core of the religion
What the fuck did you think Protestantism was?

Or a protestant!

It's hard to assimilate when you're being singled out and called terrorists. Being divisive and brandishing all Muslims as violent individuals only alienates them and fuels more terrorist behavior.

>he doesn't know about simple random sampling and confidence intervals

Git fucking gud

This thread has nothing to do with history.

Yeah, because there are no such things as Shiite terrorist groups, Shiite theocracies, and Shiite death squads.

Jesus was sure non-violent when he decided to chase people with a whip in his hand. Or maybe when the Christian bible commands Christians to stone their son to death if he's being disobedient.

My point is the fundamental difference in that the Shi'a don't preach "kill everyone but Sunnis" in their mosques; they started Quds Day, Islamic Unity Week, etc. Shi'a leadership are trying to extend the olive branch whilst the Sunni leadership is calling them Rafida and supporting terror groups like al-Qaeda, ISIS, and Boko Haram.

The Shia are too weak to do the same bullshit Sunnis do.

That's the only difference. They love killing Americans, they love to inflict pain and suffering on non Muslims and Muslims of different sects.

Iran has the most powerful military (aside from Israel) in the region and enjoys backing from Russia and China.

In Iran, there is one member of Parliament reserved for each Constitutionally recognized religious minority (Christians, Zoroastrians, Jews, Sunni Muslims), pilgrimages and holidays are allowed.

Iraq, Lebanon, and Yemen are total fuckholes with no laws or governance and Shias have the bulk of the military might in those areas, though in Iraq the Shia militants fight alongside Sunni villages against ISIS.

Their "love of killing Americans" is rather a distrust and dislike of Western interference in the region. Americans enjoy great hospitality in Iran, many people who have been there will attest to that.

On the other side, the Salafi doctrines teach to kill everyone in sight who isn't a Sunni, has had pogroms against Shia for hundreds of years, and when the Shia defend themselves, they twist the media in such a way as to say they started it.

While the Shia have a great deal of their own problems, they are far better for the region than the Sunni KSA, who executes people like Sheikh Nimr who called for democracy, and beheads and subsequently crucifies his nephew.

Let me ask you user, is this pastor (advocate.com/religion/2015/11/24/kill-gays-preacher-kevin-swanson-gods-his-side) that is preaching for the death of all homosexuals, and he himself says he means actual death and not something metaphorical, representative of all Christians?

Everyone seems to think the terrorism has its roots in Islam instead of the disenfranchisement and alienation of Islamic teenagers after the decades of foreign occupation and the insane amount of civilian casualties as a result of the unending wars.

A war is never religious, religion is nothing but a uniting factor and a tool to lull the gullible into your cause. Some other factor has caused ISIS and has caused the new wave of terrorism, starting with 9/11.

Is Ramadan as hard as it sounds? I'm a fat cunt and I've never fasted in my life

>people thinking the concept of lying to protect your life over your religion is Muslim only

How do you think the Christians survived the Romans?

Not him, but try not eating/drinking from dawn to sunset yourself. I fast (outside of Ramadan) every Monday and Thursday, so I'm pretty used to it.

What I can tell you is that my first Ramadan was tough, it's a bit tougher to concentrate (but you get used to it), and the food you eat when you break fast is the best tasting stuff in the world.

How do you function though? I admit I have a bad coffee habit, but I get the shakes if I've not eaten all day.

I'm fasting at the moment, I finished some homework and now I'm watching youtube videos and posting on here to keep myself occupied.

A lot of people with nicotine addictions also have a tough time fasting, so I suggest trying to wean yourself off of caffeine up until when you decide to fast to make it easier on yourself.

And again you get used to it after a while. A lot of people eat a tonne over the night to have energy the next day, you could try doing that for starters. Or just train yourself (start fasting for 4 hrs, move to 6, 8, etc.) if you're that adamant.

Lmao, fasting is the stupidest shit. At least all the abrahamites are united in their masochism for God.

Fasting is a universal tradition of most religions senpai

I know, they are all nuts. Abrahamic ones seem to love it so much more, though.

>There's many examples in the Quran which don't fit your interpretation of those verses being "for that time period".

OK. Where are they