Manchukuo

>you will NEVER be chased through gleaming neon lit skyscrapers in 1990s Manchukuo by Kempeitai officers in immaculate white jumpsuits, gloves, and helmets after finding out too much about what goes on at 731 Biochemical Research 株式会社

Put the FUCKING revolver in my MOUTH

Why is this even a thing? It was a Japanese puppet state and not much more on its own. Its like being a fan of Vichy France and wondering why French people look down on you. The Buddhist flag is aesthetic though.

qts tho

>you will NEVER be chased through gleaming neon lit skyscrapers in 1990s Manchukuo
Lel
Japan was painfully backwards in city tech compared to Europe and the US. Their idea for "Early warning radar" was a giant megaphone hooked to a guys ears. They still built houses out of paper for fucks sake. If Japan hadn't been spit roasted with nukes and napalm, US reconstruction would have never come, and who knows, Asia could be stuck in perpetual Meijii period traditional style with paper lanterns instead of neon.

True enough. Having lived in several places though I will say even a big American city like LA feels like a sketchy boring and kinda gross provincial town compared to Tokyo or Seoul. Definitely America is the backwards one when it comes to cities now.

People like Manchukuo...why?

>to get so many fans on this board?
its a cool sounding name desu. also the japanese putting the last chinese emperor as the puppet leader kek

some books:
Young, John. The Research Activities of the South Manchurian Railway Company, 1907–1945: A History and Bibliography. New York: Columbia University Press, 1966.
>Covers much more than the South Manchurian Railway. In particular, gives guidance to economic and sociological field studies carried out by Japanese researchers in northern China.

Duara, Prasenjit. Sovereignty and Authenticity: Manchukuo and the East Asian Modern. Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefield, 2003.
>Provocative postmodernist analysis of the assimilation of Dongbei (东北) from its initial status as culturally and politically separate from China through two competing forms of imperialism—the external variety (creation of the artificial nation-state Manchukuo, controlled by the Japanese military) and the internal variety (mass immigration of Han Chinese).

Akita, Shigeru, and Nicholas White. The International Order of Asia in the 1930s and 1950s. Farnham, UK, and Burlington, VT: Ashgate, 2010.
>Chapter by Akita (pp. 17–48) argues that the relationship between Great Britain and Japan was complementary in several important aspects. Chapter by Cumings (pp. 103–130) stresses the central role of Korea in Japanese imperialism. Both quite informative.

Duus, Peter, Ramon H. Myers, and Mark R. Peattie, eds. The Japanese Informal Empire in China, 1895–1937. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1989.
>An important book. Duus notes that “what often obfuscates the study of modern imperialism is the fact that not every imperialistic relationship is necessarily a colonial one” (p. xi). Duus also makes the important point that imperialism is based on mythologies, and that the Japanese created “potent and complex” myths about China to justify their expansionism (p. xiii).

Fogel, Joshua A. Articulating the Sinosphere: Sino-Japanese Relations in Space and Time. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2009.
>Focuses more on the cultural than the economic issues in this relationship. In three essays, presents three perspectives: macrohistory, microhistory, and the in-between approach. Notes that each approach has strengths and weaknesses.

Duus, Peter, Ramon H. Myers, and Mark R. Peattie, eds. The Japanese Wartime Empire, 1931–1945. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1996.
>High-quality collection of essays. Part 2 deals with the empire in Northeast Asia, both Manchukuo and, to a lesser extent, China.
If you want to know the precursor to Japanese rule:
McCormack, Gavan. Chang Tso-lin in Northeast China, 1911–1928: China, Japan, and the Manchurian Idea. Stanford, CA: Stanford University Press, 1977.
>Zhang Zuolin (Chang Tso-lin) 张作霖 was the dominant warlord in Manchuria until his murder in 1928. This is an excellent portrait.

Matsusaka, Yoshihisa Tak. The Making of Japanese Manchuria, 1904–1932. Harvard East Asian Monograph 196. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Asia Center, 2001.
>Explores Japanese development policies in Manchuria up to 1932. Argues that the early 1930s did not involve a radical break in trend and that many of the later features of both military and economic policy can be traced to the earlier period.

Mitter, Rana. The Manchurian Myth: Nationalism, Resistance, and Collaboration in Modern China. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2000.
>Discusses the realities of the occupation during Manchukuo’s early years, focusing on collaborators, exiles, and resistance fighters. A myth of Chinese resistance to Japan was important in the formation of modern Chinese nationalism, providing both another enemy against which the nation could define itself and a positive model of resistance.

Young, Louise. Japan’s Total Empire: Manchuria and the Culture of Wartime Imperialism. Twentieth-Century Japan 8. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1998.
>Study of the Japanese presence in Manchuria, beginning in 1931, dealing with the military (the Manchurian Incident), economic (colonial development, 1932–1941), and settlement (farm colonization program, 1932–1945) aspects.

for even more ;)
pastebin.com/BCutpP9b
and the section on "Manchuria, Japanese Imperialism, and World War II"

Reminder that you're not aloud to post in this thread if you only know about Manchukuo from Hearts of Iron

movie when?

a) there are a lot of weeaboos/weeaboo apologists and people who like Japan or are Japanese on Veeky Forums

b) a lot of people on Veeky Forums don't like the PRC

So when you add A with B you get Veeky Forums's strange fascination for the Japanese empire who was China's worst enemy.

Seconding this, God Tier flag with seal. While the standard one is bottom pool of the shit.

Its funny how Manchuria was memed by Japs as SEPARATE FROM CHINA REEE while the realm used Chinkscript and Chinkspeak and used a Japanese designed Mon as an """""imperial seal"""""" when the seals.of actual manchu emperors during the qing period was...their names. In seal script.

Manchu people have a right to self determination. The situation they had under the Japanese wasn't ideal but neither is being genocided by the Chinese.

There's a different France to be fan of, though. No (independent) Manchuria apart of Manchukuo.

>Also any books you'd reccomend on it?

Not on Manchukuo itself, but 'Emepror to Citizen ', Puyi's autobiography

It's possible to like the idea of an independent Manchuria without having a positive or even a specific opinion of the Japanese Empire. I will not call myself manchuboo but I sympathyze with most separatist movements.

>Manchus
>Genocided by the Chinese.
Did not happen. At all.

>Independent Manchuria
>Self determination.
See, both of you, this is where it gets dicey. The Manchurians literally cucked themselves when they built the Qing Empire. They fostered intermarriages between Manchus and Chinese/Mongol to integrate them into the greater Qing Empire. They weren't like the Mongols who created clear castes and separated Mongol from Chinese, the Manchus built the Qing Dynasty and said "Look at me, I'm the Chinese Emperor now." That was it, the Qing was their state. People forget that the Manchu identity was born literally years from their conquest of China, and before that, them as the Jurchens spent centuries under Chinese/Sinic-Style Culture (respectively, the Jurchen Jin, the Mongol Yuan, and the Ming dynasty). Hell what will be known as "Manchuria" is the province of 3 Dynasties. Manchuria was not the case of a foreign power invading China, but a Non-Han Chinese minority breaking away and , as what Nurhachi did in 1616 when he united the Jurchens and founded a dynasty called the Later Jin, in honor of the first Jurchen Jin dynasty, and started probing the Ming dynasty until he got his biggest break in 1640s when Li Zicheng and his Shun rebels caused the dynasty to collapse.

just finished watching the last emperor, good movie lads

I don't think previous events are an argument to justify a nation not being independent and gradually disappearing. They explain the situation, but don't justify it. Specially when in the past the native minority wasn't literally replaced by the dominant majority.

Of course, it's too late today to stop it.

contd

Ok, that said, why is Manchukuo bullshit? Well Japan's Colonial Ambitions is pretty much Wilhelm II tier Germany by 1890s, with the Sino-Japanese War and the 1904-1905 Russo Japanese war as evidence for that, and it wanted a big piece of Chinese territory.

Japan's break came between 1911-1916 with the collapse of the Qing, the short lived Republic, that silly state Yuan Shikai built, and the collapse of the Republic, most importantly the Beiyang Faction. the Republic of China was divided between the Republic, various warlords, and Tibet declares independence.

Now the important bit for our discussion is Manchuria. Namely: there was no HURR MUH INDEPENDENT attempt by the Manchurians. What we get instead is the Fengtian Clique. A Clique during the Warlord Period, was the name given to the collection of Northern Generals and Warlords who banded together and acted s De-Facto rulers of their piece of Balkanized China. The Fengtian, named after the province of their Warlord, Zhang Zuolin, ruled everything from Shandong, controlled Beijing, and all of Manchuria.

The Fengtian is best remembered in Modern Chinese history as a collection of mutually hostile generals with colourful personalities, Zhang Zongchang being the funnest guy of that bunch of psychos. It is also best remembered as a Japanese puppet, as Zhang Zuolin's fiefdom contained the whole of Manchuria, a province that Japan had its eye on since the end of the Russo Japanese war. Zhang Zuolin received direct military and economic help from Japan, in hopes that the Fengtian Clique can extend its rule a little longer.

Long story short, in 1926, the nightmare of the Northern Warlords happened when the Republic of China, under Chiang and some of the SOuthern Generals, got their collective balls together and launched the Northern Expedition. Like the rest of the Northern Warlords, the Fengtian suffered defeat after defeat that Chiang was set to unify all of China proper

With their dog in the fight threatened, Japan weirdly assassinated Zhang Zuolin by bombing his train as the general was retreating from his latest setback versus Chiang's armies during the end of the Northern Expedition in 1928. Three years later, Japan said "what the heck, let's just take the damn place before the ROC establishes de facto rule over there" and took Manchuria in 1931. Since this was the Post-Treaty of Versailled/League of Nations era which looked down on neo-colonial attempts, they created an artificial state based on "Manchu Identity" that curiously resembled Northern China anyway, since the Manchurians have been culturally dead ever since the first half of the Qing Period.

tl;dr, no such thing as a Manchurian independence movement Post-Qing. Manchukuo is a fake country.

>I don't think previous events are an argument to justify a nation not being independent and gradually disappearing.
The Manchus had no concept of Manchuria. Manchu was an ethnonym not a toponym.

So what?

Now that's an actual argument, at least against the specific state of Manchukuo (which is the subject of the thread so I have 0 complaints) and not "Manchus cucked themselves".

>But yes, there are Manchukuoboos, and they are definitely autistic, because they also have a thing about trains.

The existence of manchukuo basically owes it's existence to the railway - maybe that's why autists love it so much?

Los Angeles is barely a city, it's a glorified fucking suburb compared to places like Tokyo

lol... you know that manchurians had been a minority in Manchuria since at least the 19th century?

good info user. I like how you go into the details of the warlord and republican period, which in other discussion on the board is almost avoided or superficially touched upon (though i suspect it's not from lack of wanting to talk about the period but the lack of good literature on the subject, which the pastebin bibliographies have now resolved imo)

>the biggest metro in the world is a lot bigger than the 25th biggest metro in the world
Deep insight friendo.

>vaporwave spy movie set in a world where Germany loses but Japan wins
Sign me the fuck up

Communism was more of a threat to China than the Japs, they were a temporary one.
t. Grandchild of a Nationalist Chinese soldier