Why cant people just start little farms and live comfy with their families?

However, specialisation of an individual does not bring the necessity of any form of government, or does it?

Government comes from the need to regulate those large associations I mentioned. After you go past the monkeysphere you can't just have big man societies, you need something more structured.

They also generally hold the monopoly on force (de jure, not 100% de facto).

yes we can

Because as far as human motivations are concerned, dissatisfaction is in the abstract what pussy is is the concrete - ie. the main driving force for men do pretty much anything beyond tend to their immediate needs. As long as someone thinks that something better is out there and achievable, they'll be dissatisfied until they get it.

That said, agriculture is immensely gratifying and many people throughout history have found themselves perfectly content living out their days on a small farm with simple creature comforts.

Yes.

Civilization was invented by Autistic people desperate to prove who is the most relevant. No neurotypical human could invent something as asinine as private property or borders or what have you.

Why weren't people just happy with living as hunter gatherers?

>Why cant people just start little farms and live comfy with their families?
women despise this, because there is less potential providers for each woman.
women gain strength once that they let men compete between them to gain women

They probably were, it's just that when agriculture came along that seemed like a good idea. Then they were a little happier for a couple of generations until they forgot the old struggles of hunter-gathering and learned the new struggles of civilization.

Some where.

Others liked stability. Those populations grew while hunter-gatherers staid about the same.

>you give out farmland
What's your plan for the other 300m civilians dipshit?

Is this not wrong though? Peer pressure has prove very capable of rulling societies. We could cite Gaulish tribes, anarchist until war where a leader would be elected for the period of trouble. (Don't laugh, Gauls rose themselves to be quite influencial, and even more: rich. That's what started the wars with Rome. Economical interests and the Roman hunger for revenge. The later being propaganda of course). We also have the Paris Commune that proved to be fairly successfull, until both the French and German armies decided to """""free"""""" them

>muh libertarian idealism
Governments (even big governments) aren't going away. Learn to live with them.

My mom was a subsistence farmer and hated it, so did her 14 siblings. They all ran off to San Francisco during the summer of love (lower Haight was a black neighborhood before hippies came and they had relatives there) only to meet stupid white hippies who went to the south to start communes and homesteads only to leave for local towns or back to cities to make a cash income.

Don't romanticize poverty and inaccessibility. I even do sometimes but find the idea of tending a perennial food system that doesn't need much attention that I can visit occasionally and have people crash at to care take much more realistic.

Gauls had druids, sometimes kings and war-chiefs. Their societies were quite a bit stratified compared to hunter-gatherers today.

Are you saying the revolutionary Council didn't govern the people? What do you call setting and enforcing policy over a large number of people?

You are literally describing Maoism.

I hope you're happy being a monster.

7 billion people

Go ahead user, see how long you like living in poverty. Then your crops fail, your kids starve, your wife dies from childbirth and you put a bullet through your head because you failed your family.

Polpot please go.

more stratified than hunters gatheres for sure, but light years from our society still.
also, what revolutionnary council are you talking about? Paris Commune is 1870, not 1789

But that isn't the point. Our society is also a lot bigger and more complex. Agriculture is so efficient nowadays that it frees up most of the population for other work and we reap the benefits everyday: we are a lot less likely to be victims of disease, starvation or violence than the Gauls. We can't just leave all of the law, medicine and art to a priestly class anymore. It's simply not efficient, we would find it intolerable.

The commune had a Council which regulated public services and produced decrees. You could say they were something of a democratic government.

Lets start with the fact that human interaction is inherently full of conflict.
Family, friends, co workers. We are constantly at conflict with each other and we all draw lines and let others know of our lines that we do not want them to cross.

Next there is the problem of the human mind which cannot remember or deal with an amount of people bigger than a certain number and time.
There is a limit to how many people you can have a relationship with. the rest are not humanized to you and you do not care for them as much.

Then there is the problem of interactions between people from different distances.
If I come to visit some place, I can cause some chaos and leave and it will cost another person a lot of effort to get back at me.

We are still fighting with basic limitations of space and time, our body and our brain.

Let us first knowledge our limitations so that we can build an informed system.

Pretty much. Civilisation was invented by people in whose interests it is for social stratification to exist, i.e. small, scrawny and incompetent incapable of fighting off other people or seizing land for themselves. It's why things like taxes fundamentally exist.

>Civilisation was invented

Excuse me
>developed

Not trying to imply that any of it was conscious or intentional.

>farm life
>comfy
Fuqqin pleb, bet youre a commie that has never worked...

Because a constant struggle between the authoritarians (those seeking to control the actions of others) and libertarians (Individuals wanting full autonomy) is going on and if you don't at least meet the other side at the platform you are going to lose the rights you have. That is why society must exist, because people are always going to get together and do stuff despite the wants of others, this way tabs can at least be kept on what's going on, limit the shenanigans, protect what you see as your property, family, land, ect. Also idk about you but i rather like things, the internet is cool, hell even basic metal working is useful af. Couldn't do or have any of those things if we were all responsible for our basic needs, the market increases quality of life for all because it allows for specialization and division of labor that produces better products at a cheaper price. And then finally there's the enduring conflict of "that guy has something that i want" and it's just good to have a system in place to hopefully at least discourage a home invasion shootout. Oh, and human narcissism, the root of all human problems. The inability to recognize your personal insignificance in the universe, or even the unwillingness to do so. People are fucking ridiculous, stupid apes

>Civilisation was invented by people in whose interests it is for social stratification to exist, i.e. small, scrawny and incompetent incapable of fighting off other people or seizing land for themselves.
Are you saying that competent fighters didn't benefit from having a dirty bunch of pushovers toiling to feed them, cloth them and build for them?

It's not a one-way street. Civilization wasn't a scheme to benefit one particular group. It benefited different groups differently, but those groups came to work together because it would generally be beneficial or necessary to them.

control

people are afraid and they think they know whats best in general, that implies they think they know whats best for you and themselves

control

some people get their rocks off on reigning above others and all it takes is a minority to run a majority, fear is their tool to do this

control

if you aren't dense, you know that our reality, in relation to the human makeup, not the physical makeup, but the human aspect, boils down to the polarity of good and evil. since evil is an option, some people can access this part of the polarity and within it is the methods to exploit the weak and poor and less knowledgeable for..you guessed it, control.

as a believer in God and Jesus Christ though, i've come to learn that the flesh, the human flesh, that the word of God spoke vehemently about...it seriously does have a separate "tug" of it's own, it has a separate "tug" on the soul, or if you dont believe you have a soul, the flesh has a tangible "tug" on your cognitive motives.

it's the "tug" of the flesh that we submit to that produces levels of evil. it's the insatiable desire of our appetite, or more accurately described, the insatiable desires of the flesh.

the flesh wants more. when not put under control or sacrificed as the word of God states, it can run the show.

the flesh wants more, it wants not only from itself, it wants others belongings, it wants others in general, it wants to consume. all of this leads to transgressions against your brother in vain attempts for control. this is why fasting and denying of ones self is considered a virtue in terms of voluntarily physical actions.

but yeah, the source of all this vain desire for control stems from an insatiable appetite. the appetite stems from fear, a fear one might run out, or a fear that one does not have enough, it's all a deep fear for self preservation within the subconscious.

as opposed to living in what God calls righteousness. being content with what God can supply you with. we have all the supplies we will ever need, yet out of sheer morbid psychology, which is really just a collective of subtle evils....we attempt to withhold the never ending source of supplies from people. we gather the supplies to a choke point and only give them up for a ransom, ie; money in our case. all because people want to be on top of other people. now we've all been trained to think like this.

but evil is clever in it's frequency, it gets men to do some pretty unjust and disgusting acts as we all know, which just gives fear based ammo to the ones who want control.

the ones who want control, out of sheer opportunity, will tell you to look at the people who practice highly visible evil and say "you see, look at how they act, now you have to join us, we will protect you."

evil truly is efficient at consuming and controlling. it's supporting itself from every angle possible, like a room with walls that close in on itself. that's how evil infects mankind.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 8:6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

>Why are the state and the market necesary?
Because they are mutually beneficial.

You want your farm and family life? That's nice. I want my car and iPhone.

This
Because of state and market you can have farm and family life and also car and iphone.

OP just go work in farm throu summer, its stressfull and definitely not comfy work

No, it doesn't. But governments naturally form as a consequence of city building, so the answer to the question "why can't people just not have government" seems to be "people apparently form governments by nature"

What a beautiful idea! I am sure it would work fine, if only we could prevent those pesky intellectuals from ruining our glorious farmer society! By the way, do you wearing glasses, OP?

Shhh... Don't tell...

...

because I don't want to spend my life on a little shite farm with every day being the same till the end of my life. I'm only gonna live for ~90 years and that's the end of everything, I would never be able to relax in a small farm like that. It'd turn into a prison in no time.

Just join a hippie community if you want a life like that or become an amish

Because Jews.

The history of civilization ever since the French Revolution has been the history of human autonomy being eroded and all the individual prerrogatives being usurped by the State, which assumes absolute political, economical, cultural and social power. The farmer lifestyle, on the other hand, is independent on the state, therefore it must be destroyed.

>muh Maoism

Maoism didn't celebrate independent farmers, but instead subjugated peasants to the State through collective farming, like in the Soviet Union. My model is not the Maoist peasant, but the kulak, whom the Jews slaughtered in their bloodlust.

It's ironic to see progressives using Mao's image to criticize their enemies, when Mao was the ultimate progressive, and the Cultural Revolution was the ultimate SJW convergence attempt.

Because an agrarian society with no state doesn't give you the Internet, healthcare, unemployment benefits, Law enforcement (no laws), Insurance, social security, easily affordable clothing and food, nor a varied diet of fruits and vegetables.

Your health and well-being would be impacted drastically without any of these things.

>Famine or drought kills your crop
>Nothing to fall back on, everyone dies hungry and killing each other over scraps.

I can't really understand why anyone would want us to move back to pre-industrialization standards but not pre-agriculture ones.
You had to toil hard on some farm for a big part of the years, the risk of famine always hanging over you as you will be completely dependent on the local climate. If you don't end up being taken by one of the nasty plagues evolving from human close contact with animals due to animal husbandry you may very well die in some war because your noble ((There will be nobles, someone gotta protect people from those travelling bandit gangs)) wanted to start a war somewhere because of "muh borders" or you will stave/die to death when some other noble thinks the same and invades your land.
Then as the icing of he cake you will have to spend quite a lot of time working, for free, because of some noble asshole and his divine rights.

I don't really see what reason you got to think the other guy was progressive

>Then as the icing on the cake you will have to spend quite a lot of time working

Pre-agricultural people had to work even more than pre-industrial people, and in more mundane and repetitive tasks.

>that picture
it's true. Farmers are such selfish and dumb people.
They only care about their own hide and whether it's gonna rain the next summer or not. They will never raise a finger against anything as long as you let them do what they want on their little piece of land.

That might kinda make you appreciate them and think of them as the "masters of their own destiny" who only want to be left alone and cause no harm but that's also why they never rebel against dictatorships, press censorship, corruption in the system or anything at all unless it concerns them or their fucking crops

>Why cant people just start little farms and live comfy with their families?
They can and should.

>Why are the state and the market necessary?
They aren't.

There's still all those other things to consider.

>itt: retards with delusional nostalgia
Because people like not having to do subsistence farming, and to have basic things like medicine, heating, and electricity.

managing logistics in a different way than "lol just make everything yourself" has huge returns.

also it is perfectly possible to do that. it's just that you're fucking up your own access to things like healthcare and electricity.