Gender pay gap

w8t4u
w8t4u

You guys are economists, right? Are some of you bosses/employers? Enlighten me on the gender pay gap ($0.77 women for every $1.00 men) in Western countries, which people for some reason won't shut up about and still think is a problem.

1) How much of it due to direct discrimination? I'm sure it's probably not much but how much?
2) If you are a boss/employer do you pay your women less just because they're women? If so, why?
3) If so, how are you able to do it without being caught?

Please provide sources where you're able. No bully pls.

All urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=msSDI328UPc

Emberburn
Emberburn

It doesn't exist

Firespawn
Firespawn

Okay, but can you verify that? I'm in a debate with someone and I need to prove it to them.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Don't get me wrong, /pol/ and /r9k/ are fucking retarded, but in this one instance they're right. There is no such thing.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

1) How much of it due to direct discrimination? I'm sure it's probably not much but how much?
$0
2) If you are a boss/employer do you pay your women less just because they're women? If so, why?
Seeing how this board is /r9k/-lite, you will get plenty of yes answers in this thread. Odds are they're disgruntled NEETs though
3) If so, how are you able to do it without being caught?
See 2. No person or business would risk it in the real world because of the massive potential for lawsuits.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

first you need to diferentiate wage gap based on completed education.

you can't compare a man with a degree in engineering with $60.000 starting with a woman with degree in some bullshit women's studies earning $40.000 and spouting wage gap meme.

when you account for most of these things, I'm betting it comes to a slight difference in total, not nearly enough to give a reason for their bullshit movement

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

use basic logic
if you people could pay women less, why would anyone hire a man?

Lunatick
Lunatick

The person I'm speaking with claims that the discrimination is "not blatant" and the employer can't get caught because he makes it so there's a stigma around employees discussing their wages, so employees don't know they're being paid differently for the "same work." How do I tell them this is retarded?

Booteefool
Booteefool

If you can't justify your opinion, even if it's correct, it's not an opinion worth having.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

I call bullshit. Where I live have no problems discussing their wages. depends on the country though

employees will always know how much their counterparts are being paid

King_Martha
King_Martha

I'm trying to form an opinion, moron, that's why I started the thread

Soft_member
Soft_member

how do I tell them this is retarded
Sounds like you do have an opinion.

girlDog
girlDog

Because anons already told me it's not real

happy_sad
happy_sad

forming an opinion from opinion of others is a poor way to having a correct opinion on any matter, since anyone can cherrypick the results in their favor

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

It is true over a lifetime. But liberals always make it sound like it's an hourly discrepancy. For example:

A woman with 2 children typically takes a full year off work between them both
Men tend to work longer hours and are more likely to work weekends
Statistically, women retire earlier than men
Uneducated men take skill trade positions, while uneducated women gravitate towards low-paying retail positions

Take all these things into account and an average women makes 80% of what an average man makes OVER A LIFETIME. Hourly, however, they make damn near the same, dollar for dollar

5mileys
5mileys

I asked for sources, moron

takes2long
takes2long

There is zero falsifiable evidence that it even exists

This is the old cliche rebuttal, but if the pay gap did exist, why don't businesses only hire women to do the exact same job for less pay?

askme
askme

yes, and anyone can give you some hurr durr source that confirms their opinion

that's why you went to pol and got ass blasted about how it doesn't exist and now you believe the same, even though you saw no data on the matter.

fuck off and do your own research you goddamned idiot

massdebater
massdebater

but can you verify that

That's not how debate works user

Tell them to verify it for you with real research.

Blogs, Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook, opinion news pieces, and Hillary Clinton are not verifiable sources of information.

iluvmen
iluvmen

employer can't get caught because he makes it so there's a stigma around employees discussing their wages, so employees don't know they're being paid differently for the "same work."

God damn, laughing my fucking ass off.
You can't argue with these people. They are literally super left wing conspiracy theorist victims. Instead of "THE JOOS" it's just "THE PAYTREEARKEY."

It always come back to psuedo-psychological oppression bullshit.

likme
likme

that's why you went to pol and got ass blasted about how it doesn't exist and now you believe the same, even though you saw no data on the matter.
The fuck are you talking about faggot, I didn't go to /pol/, stop shitposting

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Everyone gives pol a bad name, but this is the kind of argument they put up with all day everyday.

Liberal makes claim of sexism/racism/ect-ism
Opposition asks for verifiable and falsifiable proof
Liberals realize no proof exists of their claim
Resorts to ad homs and straw men and posting interracial porn
Repeat day in and day out
Eventually, opposition doesn't even engage them in debate at all and just insults them
Liberals then eventually proclaim how the opposition is stupid and won't even debate the issue with them

Methnerd
Methnerd

Because anons already told me it's not real
not /pol/

k

TreeEater
TreeEater

idk where you are from, but here in Austria (and I think in Germany too), it's really bad etiquette to talk about your own salary with other people, be it friends or coworkers and there really is a certain stigma about it

Skullbone
Skullbone

Literally everyone in this thread is telling me it's not real, and I'm not supposed to glean something from that? Now fuck off or stay on topic

Firespawn
Firespawn

supply and demand,

women for every $1 men earn, women only put in $0.77 worth of work, its that simple

there is no gender discrimination that exists in the business world, because the only thing that matters in making $$

My sources
common fucking sense

Flameblow
Flameblow

if you take anything from here as a fact, you're a retard.

with how you're going about this, you might as well go to tumblr and ask them to tell you their opinion as well, so it's nicely centered.

too bad for you it will still be based on political opinion of others instead of facts. if you're hoping any user here is going to give you numbers, you're in for a surprise.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

ask a question
everyone gives the same answer, and it's not "Boku no Pico"
don't take it as fact
tumblr is centered
No, user, you're the retard.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

I answered your fucking question here:

Or are you just here for attention?

DeathDog
DeathDog

just look at it from a CEO perspective,

you need to make maximum $$ for shareholders

would you really care that much about gender when hiring?

no, 99% of people wouldn't

wage gap isn't real, no way to prove it with facts, it's all subjective

eGremlin
eGremlin

No.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Here in the trades world, I know how much you make just from you telling me what year you're in your apprenticeship.
jimmy is a 3rd year apprentice
oh that means he's at 60% journeyman wage

Everyone knows how much everyone makes hourly.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

If you are a boss/employer do you pay your women less just because they're women? If so, why?
i would pay less for a woman of same skills and competence as i know she will be a less effective workforce possibly disruptive.
if she proves me wrong her wage would be raised to par.
but they never do.

happy_sad
happy_sad

problem with discussing wages is that everyone seem to think they work hardest or their work is more valuable to the company then an others.
but this is just their feelings talking. can get messy if a guy wants a raise and he can bully out a raise and 3 other guys suddenly feel under appreciated as they think they are better than him. and so on.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

/thread

5mileys
5mileys

I'm betting it comes to a slight difference in total
women, especially young women introduce more risk for the employer.
they should earn less and not by an insignificant amount therefore.
i'm a firm believer that you handle shit like this as an insurance company would. things must be in equilibrium.

JunkTop
JunkTop

It is illegal to pay one group higher then they other for some shit like sex or race.

There would be no way getting away with it even if there was the amount of outrage over being found out would be killer for a company.

Women just don't work in high paying jobs as men it's that simple, example most doctors are male most nurses are female, if someone said hospital staff have a massive gender gap it would seem that way but, men go into more high paying jobs and also ask for a rise more, also a rise will mean mo money women tend to get a baby in em and stop work meaning no rise meaning less money.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

nurses make almost 40 dollars an hour

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

It comes down to negotiation and life choices. Women shy away from jobs that require long and unusual hours, and those that are dangerous. Such jobs are often better compensated than similar positions that go 9-5 and won't hurt you. Most women also make adjustments to their hours or take leave or switch jobs entirely to accommodate child-rearing. This gets them off track compared to someone whose primary goal is getting paid a lot and advancing. Additionally, many women are bad at negotiating high compensation and initiating conversations about that. The onus is not on the employer to give them more money if they don't give him a reason to.

If you expect someone to move, quit, or take leave soon, why would you go out of your way to pay them more if it won't affect their decision?

Your friend's objection doesn't explain why an employer is obligated to give someone compensation they haven't made a compelling case for.

BTW, I know two women who proved themselves extremely valuable to their respective employers (both of which you'd recognize) and used this to negotiate jaw-dropping deals with regards to hours and pay after they had kids. That took a lot of initiative and damned hard/smart work. Most people are not as uniquely valuable as those women, and their pay and hours are determined by what is essentially a calculation against risk of losing them and how much it would cost to replace them.

farquit
farquit

It is illegal to pay one group higher then they other for some shit like sex or race.
how would you ever be able to prove it when wages are individually negotiated?

askme
askme

By comparing paystubs side by side

idontknow
idontknow

fixed

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

But you'll never get two employees who are absolutely identical in every respect except sex. The employer can always justify the difference in wages by saying that one person is better qualified, more experienced, works harder, is more senior, whatever. Or even that they're just better at negotiating salary.
Ultimately employers want to pay everyone, male or female, as little as possible without harming performance or driving the person to another employer who will pay more. That's business; wages are an expense and if you can reduce that expense without impacting revenue then you obviously will. And the price of wages is ultimately determined by market forces. It is not a direct reflection of the value that a person contributes to the business.

The existence of somethnig like a gender pay gap then becomes self-reinforcing. If I have a male employee who could probably find a job at another company getting 100k, and an equally productive female employee who could probably get another job at 80k, then what am I going to do? I have an obligation to the business to maximise profits; I'm not going to voluntarily give the woman 20k more than the market requires me to. I might never even think about the fact that one of the employees is female; there's certainly no need for any conscious sexual discrimination. I'm just paying market price for labour.

Flameblow
Flameblow

Majority of people work for minimum wage and last time I checked its the same for both men and women.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Yeah, bottom class people are disgusting
They should be more Educated

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Majority of people work for minimum wage
Well no, not even close.

But anyway, when people talk about a gender pay gap, they are not talking about a difference between male and female minimum wage. Obviously.

massdebater
massdebater

all women and men are the same

nice meme, male version of feminist

idontknow
idontknow

You're right, opinions are gay, never ask other people what they think, or try to learn from others

Methshot
Methshot

I don't think I've ever seen a female worker who wasn't lazy as shit. Pretty sure you don't need a two hour lunch break, Denise. Go ahead and call it an early day, it isn't easy texting for five hours straight.

Methnerd
Methnerd

It must really suck to be an ugly woman.

You have all of the male column with none of the benefits of the female column.

TreeEater
TreeEater

It's not a 100% accurate, but it's a pretty simple indicator of all the cons of being a man.

Feminists ignore the cons of being a man.

Skullbone
Skullbone

1) Ask the person you are debating to cite examples of how it exists.
2) Point out the flaws in each example.
3) Go back to step 1 until examples are exhausted
4) Re-cap why they're belief is flawed

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

worst looking woman in the bar yells, "who wants to fuck me?!"
at least 5 guys fight over dibs
worst looking man in the bar yells, "who wants to fuck me?!"
5 ugliest women look at him disgustedly as he is dragged out by a bouncer

That being said, I'll take the struggle over being a hormonal wreck 50% of the time. Keep in mind that women are completely sane and rational about half the time, so they are able to recognize when the crazy takes over the other half. Imagine how infuriating that must be. It's like being schizophrenic, but intermittently sane for just long enough to constantly be reminded of how crazy you are

TechHater
TechHater

I'm not going to bother reading the thread.

It comes down to the way it's calculated.
All the wages of men divided by the male population.
All the wages of women divided by the female population.

If you don't already see a problem here, then I'll give you a hint:
youtube.com/watch?v=msSDI328UPc

JunkTop
JunkTop

Feminists ignore the cons of being a man.

And MRAs or whatever their meme name is these days just like feminists ignore the cons of being female

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Agreed.

Nojokur
Nojokur

Which one of those groups is changing the societal structure and getting laws passed to enforce their flawed ideology?

Illusionz
Illusionz

Where are the sources kiddo.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

There's no such thing once you account for education level, experience, personal ability etc.

Here's a related story for you. I worked for an online broker who would hire people in groups of about 40. We were supposed to study half the day for our series 7 exam and the rest of the day we would do non broker costumer service. About 60% of the men passed their exam, about 20 % of the women passed after being given a second chance. Over half of the men hired tried to negotiate their pay, non of the women did.

Just spitting out statistics is bullshit, you need to understand why those numbers are what they are.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Women don't want to do different jobs, they want child care workers to get the same pay as a boiler maker for example. They feel that female dominated professions are undervalued. They don't seem to have real solutions though. I guess communism would be closest to what they're after, same pay regardless of job.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

When you say things like this out loud, does your audience adopt a slack, uncomprehending expression ?
And then if you go the other way and dumb it down, do they get all butthurt because you're patronizing them?
Looking for pointers, as I fuck it up every time.

5mileys
5mileys

I guess communism would be closest to what they're after, same pay regardless of job.
Even communists aren't stupid enough to do that.

iluvmen
iluvmen

If woman make .77 cents too a dollar, why doesn't every business only employ women?

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

Another Austrian here, the best you can do is to NOT talk about your salary.
a) They hate you because you earn more for the same work
or
b) they think they are better then you and look down at you

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

not proof if someone is not able to negotiate the same wage as an other, that just means exactly that.
hard to prove any discrimination even if there is statistical correlation.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Thanks! Looking interesting, will check this out.

MPmaster
MPmaster

a specific number
"western countries"
you should know right then and there it's a load of shit. Under what circrumstances would a wage gap form the exact same way across so many nations?

It's illegal to pay people different wages for the same work in pretty much all western nations, so if someone complains they're not being paid enough they either arent assuming as much responsibility or hours as their competition, or they should just fucking sue/report them to the proper authorities.
it's a non-argument because the solution is already there.

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