Is joining the Freemasons worth it?

Are you taking the piss?

I bet you think Scottish Rite means the A&AR.

I remember seeing a drawing/chart from the early 20th century that dealt with class in the States (sort of tongue-in-cheek attitude).

It had the various classes on the left and what they ate, what sort of entertainment, what clubs they joined etc. on the right. Interestingly enough the Freemasons were in one of the two bottom classes. The Klan was in it too.

Here we have these.

Sounds about right for the land of one day conferrals, and two days to 32nd.

Rad pic. Always considered joining the Pilot's Guild to get Freedom of the City. But it's pretty hard for

British people can join guilds? I wish my life was like an MMO...

Anyone in the Commonwealth can. They're about as useful as MMO Guilds, though.

Well, that's only true for those that come after no.12 in order of precedence (like the Pilot's Guild). The Great 12 are much more difficult to get in to and due to the high-calibre of their members, their membership is potentially more advantageous. Although one can argue that if you're accomplished/connected/wealthy enough to join one of the Great 12 (or inherit your membership) you don't really need what it offers and you just go there to be among peers.

So who's better

UGL England Masons or Continental Masons?

UGL are more original but the Continentals are secularists.

Eh, sure. I know a guy in the Drapers and a few in the Vintners. Doesn't seem that different. Though of course the latter there has a lot more in the way of perks...

>but the Continentals are secularists.
Only the fake ones are. I want to say UGLE for your question, but after all the shit they've done, I'd go with GLS out of the Home GLs. Plenty of great lodges still in England and Wales, though.

I'd imagine the Vintners would have the best entertainment or at least drinks out all 12 lol. (if that's what you meant)
What are you friends' experiences? Worth joining? I'm thinking of moving down to London for work eventually, so I'd consider it.

Who do you mean by fake? GOdF? I'm in Scotland so GLS seems natural to me too. It's got many more cultural connotations here though, people tend to conflate them with Orange lodges and the whole sectarian thing.

I'm interested in Masonry but I looked at a local Lodge and it's filled with some of the most pathetic, fedora tipping, faggots I have ever seen. Like you could take every one of these people and stick them in a Veeky Forums store and none of them would look out of place.

I mean look at that shit. I can't believe that the organization which boasted names like Washington, Franklin, the Roosevelts, Ford, Rothschild, Hilton, Lewis and Clark could have so far degenerated. It looks like a bunch of neckbeards LARPing a secret society, not like people interested in self-development and the betterment of the world. Are they all like this, or am I looking at an exceptionally poor Lodge? Or am I just being completely shallow in my assessment of these men?

>(if that's what you meant)
Yea it be.
>What are you friends' experiences? Worth joining?
Pretty much like you say, good for connecting with other peeps in the biz. I forget the specifics of what their guild membership entails, though, beyond being able to apply for the Freedom.
>Who do you mean by fake? GOdF?
Yea. Them, La Droit Humain, HOWF, and the like. They call themselves Masons without following the rules.
>people tend to conflate them with Orange lodges and the whole sectarian thing.
Huh, weird. I mean, I kinda get the Orange Lodge connexion from a superficial point, but GL Scotland is pretty heavily Catholic, for obvious reasons.

>fedora tipping
>Masonry
>Okay.I mean look at that shit. I can't believe that the organization which boasted names like Washington, Franklin, the Roosevelts, Ford, Rothschild, Hilton, Lewis and Clark could have so far degenerated.
Ulgh, i hear that. It's mostly America, though. Hell, that one is remarkable for actually having what looks like a dress code, but i bet the majority of their meetings involve reading the minutes.
>Are they all like this, or am I looking at an exceptionally poor Lodge? Or am I just being completely shallow in my assessment of these men?
You're not, because they think shit like this is what people want to see. But it is a poor lodge, however that isn't uncommon. Guys joining an alms-giving group because they're told that's what it is, so they tell new members that. In the end it means when members want to actually be Freemasons, the old crowd tell them that isn't correct. But, there are still glimmers of light in the dark, if you can find European Concept/Traditional Observance lodges, because they're trying to bring back what made the organisation unique and gave it purpose.

I see, the thing is that since they're so far removed from their original trades that you can only hope the Company you join has enough people from your field to make it worthwhile (if connections is all you're after). AFAIK the Vintners still accept people in the alcohol biz, whereas I'm sure the Fishmongers, Grocers and Mercers don't really do that. It would be nice if Guilds in their original sense still existed.

>Yea. Them, La Droit Humain, HOWF, and the like. >They call themselves Masons without following the rules.
I reckon it's also a political/power thing. Obviously the Anglo-Saxon lodges represent the elites of that part of the world, whereas the Continental lodges represent those of mainly Latin, Catholic Europe and while they have to tolerate and co-operate with each other, I don't think these two groups see eye-to-eye on many things.

>GL Scotland is pretty heavily Catholic, for obvious reasons.
What reasons? I did not expect that, the popular opinion over here is more among the lines of this lol:
youtube.com/watch?v=1FPt1FdIxro

It would be interesting to find out more about the GLS, I am in the part of the world where a lot of this originated after all.

>It would be nice if Guilds in their original sense still existed.
I think we call them unions now, and they're ghastly.
>I reckon it's also a political/power thing.
Kinda? I mean, there are still real GLs in those places, but there are fake ones absolutely everywhere. People hate to feel excluded, but want to be part of exclusive things.
>What reasons?
That there's a lot more Catholics up north.
>It would be interesting to find out more about the GLS
You could pop into the Grand Lodge building in Edinburgh to check out their library anytime. I know they have a lot of great books on their history there.

My name is literally mason do you think they would let me join?

No. It'd sound too silly to say Brother Mason, and you would absolutely be the first.

Can I join if I'm an agnostic?

Maybe.

Hilarious

Couldn't help it. But that is a serious response. Technically yes, pending your particular beliefs, but then also on how the members of the lodge you petition feel. Usually it'll be accepted, but if you're somewhere like Arkansas they won't like it if you aren't a good ol' church goin' boy.

You may get personal/religious needs fulfilled if you'll really believe in all that stuff but the main reason why people actually go to lodges is that you may meet many fairly influential people around there who will treat you as friend.

Every wondered how the hell many completely unsuccessful market analytics, CEO's, marketing experts etc. have no problems with finding another losers to leech from? It's all about contacts. They're not necessarily freemasons but they know the right people. At the same time lodges are perfect place for meeting the right people.

The freemasons are diests, which is basically just a step up from agnostic. you will find no religious fulfillment.

>The freemasons are diests, which is basically just a step up from agnostic. you will find no religious fulfillment.

Its more accurate to say they accept deists than they are deists

Deism is only one religious fulfilling concept of God. I bet you don't even tried it, user.

I've already joined a fraternity, not going through all that shit again. I'm pretty sure we're grandfathered into some masonic cult anyway.

how was the hazing familia?

It was kind of wierd, but I was sleep deprived and hallucinating at the time. I treated it like a modern Eleusinian mysteries. I think we might have also pledged ourselves to some daemon or other.

>grandfathered into
No.

like dem niggas in true blood ?

Cthulhu is proud

>American Rite

there isn't an "American Rite"

They just mean York Rite. Backward lodges sometimes call it American Rite

There specifically is. Preston-Webb working with the North/South A&AR, and "York Rite" attached.

No, the "York Rite" is the Septics collection of HRA/Cryptic/KT because of the Antients system.

LGTSS

>"Grand" Lodges of States that weren't one of the original thirteen colonies

Huh?

Example:

Grand Lodge of Massachusetts: good

Grand Lodge of Nebraska: >

Grand Lodge of New York: good

Grand lodge of Oregon: >

Still not getting it. Hell, GL Ohio is > by your standard and they're the best in the USA.

Yeah except guilds were 10 times less shit than unions. People here tend to consider Opus Dei the Catholic equivalent of Masons so I'd never thought of that before, interesting. I'll visit the GL in Edinburgh, it will be cool to speak to someone and get my info straight from the horse's mouth.

>Yeah except guilds were 10 times less shit than unions.
That's what i mean. Unions are fine in theory, but are ruined in practice.
>People here tend to consider Opus Dei the Catholic equivalent of Masons
Really? Never heard that'n. Mostly because Knights of Columbus are meant to be the Catholic version of Masonry, but end up being the Catholic version of Oddfellows.
>I'll visit the GL in Edinburgh
Take a camera, because it's a gorgeous building.
Hope you enjoy the trip, old boy.

>That's what i mean. Unions are fine in theory, but are ruined in practice.
I'm sure that's not the only reason but career unionists (like career politicians) seem to be a huge part of why that is the case.
>Take a camera, because it's a gorgeous building. Hope you enjoy the trip, old boy.
Thank you old boy, I'm sure I will. Although I prefer the design of the London one. You can tell what it is from the outside, whereas the Edinburgh one could be anything and the hall is much more impressive.

Oddfellows seems more like an insurance scheme to me more than anything. Never really got their point.

>I'm sure that's not the only reason but career unionists (like career politicians) seem to be a huge part of why that is the case.
That's exactly it.
>You can tell what it is from the outside
I guess that's why i like the Edinburgh and Dublin ones more. London is a bit ostentatious. Befittingly so, but not in my top three.
Plus, i don't like their Grand Hall. Same as New York, Sydney, and a bunch of others. More like a business conference hall than a lodge room. No style. Or just not the right one.
>Never really got their point.
You just said it. They were a knockoff group of Masonry, but didn't do much in the way of ritual (like Buffaloes or Freegardeners do), but focused on the fraternity aspect. They in particular were among the first groups to offer insurance by way of dues. Which is specifically why they really died out as insurance became privatised.
It's a fun subject, all these fraternal societies.

Opus Dei unlike modern masons are actually shifty and have worked with Dictatorships in the past. And really you view KoC like that?

>That's exactly it.
In theory, people who are specialised in lobbying and the like would be better suited than someone who spends their week working as something else and tries to combine that with being a union rep. The problem is they don't actually end up representing anyone's interests but their own (and their cronies). Interestingly enough, corporations have exactly the same problem with executive staff.

>I guess that's why i like the Edinburgh and Dublin ones more. London is a bit ostentatious. Befittingly so, but not in my top three.
>Plus, i don't like their Grand Hall. Same as New York, Sydney, and a bunch of others. More like a business conference hall than a lodge room. No style. Or just not the right one.

Well yes, London was (and to an extent still is) the centre of the world when that was built. Pretty much everything from that era in London is ostentatious. I agree though Dublin's Hall looks amazing.

>It's a fun subject, all these fraternal societies.
It really is. That is one of the many reasons why living in 18th century Europe must have been a fascinating experience. I bought a book by John Michael Greer on "secret societies" but it was a little disappointing, very shallow information.

People wildly misunderstand Opus Dei ever since Dan Brown. Priory of Sion, too.
But yea, i view KoC like Oddfellows. As in, they've missed the point of what they were hoping to copy, but are still very nice.

>In theory
Absolutely. Which is why i sadly couldn't think of a better system of doing it. Maybe a rotational system, but that could be difficult, and certainly not much less prone to corruption.
I'm a big fan of monarchy, so maybe something in that vein, where the person in charge has a more set benefit, but is above what they're helping, and thus can focus on helping the most.
>Well yes, London was (and to an extent still is) the centre of the world when that was built.
Yea, in that regard i like the building (but not the GH), because it really is seen as the Vatican of Masonry. So that's the burden it gets to shoulder.
>I agree though Dublin's Hall looks amazing.
Oh man, if you ever get the chance to visit, do so. One of my bucket list items includes attending meetings in each of their specialty rooms (Craft, HRA, KT, 18th).
>That is one of the many reasons why living in 18th century Europe must have been a fascinating experience.
Ah, if only. A time machine would be lovely.
>John Michael Greer on "secret societies"
Not heard of it, but that doesn't mean much. I suspect it was trying to be general to include as many as possible.
Better off getting specific histories on the groups. Tobias Churton does some wonderful ones.

Curious does anyone even believe Dan Brown about that shit? I never even knew he believed it until I looked it up. I mean it's basically in line with any other Anti-Catholic Proddie conspiracy

>Curious does anyone even believe Dan Brown about that shit?
Tonnes. People who don't read anything but Dan Brown books, mostly.
youtube.com/watch?v=KHJbSvidohg

>I'm a big fan of monarchy, so maybe something in that vein, where the person in charge has a more set benefit, but is above what they're helping, and thus can focus on helping the most.
Monarchy isn't a bad idea otherwise it wouldn't have existed for so long, but when you have Royal Houses that rule over multiple nations there is definitely a conflict of interests. Also, there are far too many cases in history of monarchies being just a figurehead for a class of bureaucrats and career politicans, much like the one we have nowadays.

>It really is seen as the Vatican of Masonry.
It would have been inappropriate to make it any less grand because of that. Anyway, London must be full of beautiful and historically interesting lodges given the size and history of the city. Livery Halls are also cool, especially the Fishmongers' one, it's location is excellent (back in the old days liverymen used to have exclusive use of that wharf, so theoretically you could have visited for meetings in your boat).

>Oh man, if you ever get the chance to visit, do so.
Do you have to be a mason to visit?

>Ah, if only. A time machine would be lovely.
Indeed. Alternatively, the internet is a great way to revive the original spirit of these societies given the fact that you can communicate with like-minded people from all over the world. I guess that's a big part of Veeky Forums's original appeal.

>Tobias Churton does some wonderful ones.
Thank you for the suggestion, I'll give him a look.

>but when you have Royal Houses that rule over multiple nations there is definitely a conflict of interests.
Depends on how it's structured.
>Also, there are far too many cases in history of monarchies being just a figurehead for a class of bureaucrats and career politicans, much like the one we have nowadays.
Ulgh, i hear that. It's almost worse this way, because they can use it as a defense.
>It would have been inappropriate to make it any less grand because of that.
Exactly. But I am 'mirin that Fishmongers' one. Way prettier and logical.
>Do you have to be a mason to visit?
To visit? No. Only to attend meetings (thought they have open ones some times).
>Alternatively, the internet is a great way to revive the original spirit of these societies given the fact that you can communicate with like-minded people from all over the world.
Heh, it is quite a bit like what Masonry is meant to be.

>Depends on how it's structured.
Well, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha failed spectacularly in WWI

>To visit? No. Only to attend meetings (thought they have open ones some times).
That would be even more interesting. Do you reckon the people at the lodge in Edinburgh would help out in joining or just give generic tourist-tier info?

>Heh, it is quite a bit like what Masonry is meant to be.
Except with a lot more rudeness and lewdness

>Do you reckon the people at the lodge in Edinburgh would help out in joining or just give generic tourist-tier info?
Both. You may have to schedule a tour, though. I'm not sure how they work.
>Except with a lot more rudeness and lewdness
Well, we shall say in spirit, then, if not in form.

>Both. You may have to schedule a tour, though. I'm not sure how they work.
Cool, I'll give them a ring or an email ahead of my visit. Thanks for the info!
>Except with a lot more rudeness and lewdness
Well, we shall say in spirit, then, if not in form.
We could have had secret handshakes and forget-me-nots to identify each other in public, instead we have V for Vendetta masks...pretty sad!

>instead we have V for Vendetta masks...pretty sad!
On so many levels.

Best of luck, old boy. Hope you enjoy it and get plenty out of it.