Ok, I am sick of all these romanboos who post roman threads every day... So now we can finally have the Carthage thread that Veeky Forums might not want, but needs.
So if you have any good stories, pics, videos or anything carthage related, post it!
Phoenicians are welcome aswell.
Here are some good reads:
phoenician.org
Punics (This is also a punic thread):
en.wikipedia.org
phoenician.org
phoenicia.org
Beautiful Carthaginian harbor
The first depiction of Tanit weirdly enough are found in pre-punic Sardinia and date back to the XIII-VIII century bc, while Tanit only appears around the 4th century bc in the Punic world.
T. Baby-eater
Fuck Carthage
looks like the sub pens of ww2, neato
So is Tania of Nuragic origin?
T. Sea merchant baby killer
Could be.
Keep in mind that like half of the pottery in the foundation layer of Carthage came from Sardinia, so they were one of the main trading partners of the Phoenicians during the early iron age and could have influenced their culture.
How many kids have you Sea kikes sacrificed today Akbar?
I like where this thread is going. Sardinia thread pls?
WE
WUZ
How were the Carthaginians in any way remotely better than the Romans
...
Hmmm interesting, thanks.
Here's an excerpt from when Hanno found some negroids:
At the terminus of Hanno's voyage, the explorer found an island heavily populated with what were described as hirsute and savage people. Attempts to capture the males failed, but three of the females were taken. These were so ferocious that they were killed, and their skins preserved for transport home to Carthage. The skins were kept in the Temple of Tannit on Hanno's return and, according to Pliny the Elder, survived until the Roman destruction of Carthage in 146 BC, some 350 years after Hanno's expedition. The interpreters travelling with Hanno called the people Gorillai (in the Greek text Γόριλλαι). When the American physician and missionary Thomas Staughton Savage and naturalist Jeffries Wyman first described the gorillas in the 19th century, the apes were named Troglodytes gorilla after the description in Hanno.
Beter is subjective. How would you define beter?
I guess you could say they weren't. Because they didn't survive as long as the Romans. But they are the underdog. They build their City-state from the ground when they fled from Phoenicia. But in the end they betrayed themselves when they didn't help Hannibro.
Do modern Tunisians ever invoke the Carthaginian legacy?
KARTHIGINIANS
According to Larissa Bonfante the Clanis coins seem to have been minted after Hannibal linked up with his allies in Etruria and he used them to pay his soldiers. The face on the obverse seems to have been to honor the Nubian or Ethiopian mahmouts who died crossing the alps.
The theory that the Clanis coins depict Hannibal seems to have originated with the absolute kook (and non-historian) Aylem von Fleischer.
I'll let his bibliography speak for itself.
>*evolves from chimp*
>negroids
Negroes aren't hairy, especially compared to Semites who are among the hairiest peoples in the planet.
Also, phoenicians already knew about negroes, there are phoenician statuettes depicting negroes.
...
If Carthage won the Punic wars would be the Europe the actual third world and Africa the civilizated one?
no
If by "Africa" you mean "Sub-Saharan Africa" then no. It'd still be the same as it is now.
If by "Africa" you mean "The coastal regions of North Africa along the Mediterranean sea" then probably not. The Romans are the ones who made a lot of North Africa (Sans Egypt) into bustling populace hubs instead of just trading posts. The Carthagians were pretty uninterested in colonization except to form said trading posts, but if we're going all alt-hist then anything can happen (Do the Germanics form their own completely non-Roman influenced civilization after they settle? What happens with the Middle East and Near East? How does Greece react to Carthage? Etc etc etc).
Woah is that a new evolution of spardo? How is it called?
Actually, looking back at Hanno's map and the timeline, assuming the Carthagians for whatever reason opened up long distance trade with some coastal West-Central African empire, I can see them and the Africans colonizing more of the West coast of Africa. That's a pretty fucking big IF though, so if we're playing alt-hist I'd think it more along the lines of a corridor empire along the west coast with the interior being, well Africa.
Some are pretty hairy
If you read the actual text you wuould know they were described as primates basically, anyway much hairer than the average human, even less so the average negro.
If phoenicians (being pretty hairy on average themselves) considered them extremely hairy, basically covered in a fur, they sure as hell weren't negroids, they were most likely primates, maybe Gorilla, though I don't know if island Gorillas exist (if they did exist since most of Hanno's journey seems pretty bizarre/partially invented)
It's like Black people should stop associating with being what they are, historically. How they feel about it and see it.
It is like it is not a coincidence that the U.S. is this known for black people. This near and part of this centre of Western civilisation. That stems from Rome.
Rome: Delenda est Carthago
Nice people based societies normally get miraculous powers of the economy and military.
I think black people should think more Carthago, have their based being. Not this unnative base as now. Invest in Africa, fixing their nativity.
Open to a reply to this. Because this could cause feelings of unrest that only work against it.
קרתגו נהרסה
>Nice people based societies normally get miraculous powers of the economy and military.
Or actually nice people and animal based societies
heard you bitches had pretty good figs
I'm half wondering if they literally just found Gorillas and thought they were weird aggressive hairy humans.
Yes, what else?
Honestly niggers are not hairy, especially when compared to the phoenicians (semites/north africans/southern euros), I've just checked and the island og bioko which is most likely the last island visited by them is inhabited by Gorillas.
Kek. Is he singlehandedly responsible for all this wewuz crap?
I'm not sure if he's one of the big names or if he's just a hanger on trying to profit off it but it's all he writes about.
They are completly different cultures, it's like ancient and modern greeks
>They are completly different cultures
Yes.
>it's like ancient and modern greeks
Not at all, they're way more different. Tunisian arab is not even derived from carthaginian.
Tanit was the middle eastern deity Astarte-Ishtar.
The Tanit symbol we all know just represents a woman. I actually find it very interesting that the symbol was first found in Sardinia, and certainly would imply nuragic influence in Carthaginian culture (or at least art). This is always good because it's an overrated and often ignored culture. But we have to keep in mind that the symbol could represent a completely different godess, although superficially similar to Tanit, in Nuragic culture. The Punics liked the symbol and adopted it for their own godess. This happened constantly in the Mediterranean.
t. Roman propagandist
The Roman nation crushing a Semitic merchant race? Völkisch, fraters
I wish all black people would see this and do this
Here is teom black to stir it up a little more
emmanuel.tv
T. High priest of child sacrifices in Carthage
Relevant: youtube.com
More like the Saltycaust.
Oy vey it's aannudah shoah! (Thanks, b)
It is so taunting how refugees come from a route that involves Tunis this much
Fuck those baby sacrificing fags
Roman propaganda.
There is nothing to suggest Carthaginians ever did this.
The only evidence is a child graveyard, the bodies found had died of sickness and disease rather than by sacrifice.
Again, there is simply no evidence this was ever a practice in Carthage, it is blatant propaganda from the Romans in order to justify the murder of innocent Carthaginians.
>post yfw Rome loses 20% of it's adult male population
>a child graveyard
>a
The tophet was common in the punic world, Not saying it proves child sacrifice, there are like 6 tophets in Sardinia and 5 in the rest of the punic cities.
Most of the bones in the tophets belong to unborn babies anyway, so they weren't necessarily built for child sacrifice which may have not even occured
Well it wasn't exactly the same goddess, the current theory is that the name might have come from the Ugaritic goddess Anat, whole like you said the iconography seems to appear in Sardinia first like 4 centuries before than in the punic world.
An interesting thing is that the sea people tribe known as the Shardan were present as mercenaries in Ugarit, where Anat was worshiped.
>post yfw Carthage loses 100% of it's adult male population
It's not at all blatant propaganda. There's more than enough evidence to at least suggest some sort of child sacrifice might have happened among the Carthaginians. It's silly to just dismiss it as a Roman invention.
...
Except for the tophets
REMOVENDI PUNII
>people complaining about child graveyards
>completely ignoring the fact that infant mortality rates have been astronomically high throughout all of human history up until the mid 1800s.
JUST
You nuragicfags are worst than afrocentrists.
It's entirely possible that some of Tania's symbolism came from the Nuragics, the Punics had extensive contact with them on Sardinia.
>nuragiboos are worse than afrocentrists
Lol not at all
I've only exposed a hypothesis, I've never said it was a certainty, the iconography does appear in Sardinia well before than in Northen Africa or Lebanon, if you don't agree you can argue like a normal person instead of throwing insults at me.
The fact is that in the foundation layer of Carthage over half of the pottery is of Nuragic origins and it testifies a huge Nuragic presence both there and in other Northen african cities, it's a fact, go and look up what has been said by major scholars during the 2013 international Phoenician studies congress if you don't believe me.
So saying they could have had some sort of influence on them is not far fetched, but keep throwing insults if it makes you feel superior.
I'm talking about archaeological finds, not making up stuff, so if they don't interest you because you hate anything related to Sardinia you can ignore them and talk about what you like, but you can't just dismiss them without bringing anything to the table.
Map of the distribution of tophets (cemeteries for unborn and young children) in the Mediterranean.
The weird thing is that 0 tophets have been found in Lebanon as far as I know, from where the Punics originated.
Why so many on Sardinia?
There was a giant tophet in Jerusalem where babies were sacrificed to Moloch
nuragic rape babies
What's the source for this map?
It meant a different thing in that contest, then archeologiats adopted the term tophet to adress the children cemeteries in the Punic world
What is the source of the map?
I enjoyed reading Hannibal’s War: A Military History of the Second Punic War by Lazenby (iirc). He kind of dickrides Hannibal a lot but I think his conclusions are mostly pretty sound. He mainly looks at Polybius and Livy.
I've always said "Carthagean" instead of "Carthaginian". Am I the only one?
>the offering has been made ‘because he heard his voice and blessed him’ ( k sm – ql » brk » ), or ‘because he heard the voice of his words’ ( k sm – ql dbry ). That is to say, the offering
This is from a stele outside of a Tophet in Sardinia. It literally talks about offerings and depicts a man bearing a child's corpse. There are accounts from many different peoples asserting that the Punics / Phoenicians engaged in this act, from the Romans to the Hebrews and here we see abundant archaeological evidence that corroborates these accounts to a high degree. Why are people still trying to deny that these were child sacrifices?
Because they like carthage for some reason
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Spurdo angry rant I believe.
Have you got a template/exploitable for this?
How do black people here feel about having lost their nativity and reestablishing it. So they won't feel unheimlish anymore? Do they feel divided and without a whole foundation?
>Pick related
So what is the source on this round port tring? Was it mentioned in some chronicle or were there some archeological studies that revealed it? I'm not really into the subject, but I was simply wondering about that lately.
War elephants
TEOM BLACK -- TEOM BLACK -- TEOM BLACK -- TEOM BLACK -- TEOM BLACK --
TEOM BLACK -- TEOM BLACK -- TEOM BLACK -- TEOM BLACK -- TEOM BLACK --