Sociology Question

not true...at best there was tacit aceptance like there was in ancient greece and rome....you can be a homo quietly, and only in certain social settings, there are boundaries scocialy and there is still an expectation of mariage and discretion

Several Roman emperors were bisexual with Hadrian being a full on homo. The Byzantine Empire had a female ruler, one of the first rulers of Moorish Spain was gay, Britain has had several very successful queens

None of these things have anything to do with your feelings of sexual inadequacies or your 21st century view on sexual dominance that only exists on the fringes of right wing internet

>western world
>be born into a middle class family with stable finances and altruistic parents
>go to school
>go to college
>spend 100% of your life so far contemplating ideals like democracy, human rights, etc, trough education
>have basically no life experience
>get first job in late 20s/early 30s

>eastern world
>be born into a family of factory workers
>few finances, probaly an unstable country unless you're in south korea or japan
>go to school and better get some good fucking grades or else you're kicked out of home at age of 12
>have a completely different educational system that prioritizes jobs and repetition over thinking stimuli and imagination
>start working in an office for a shit salary at age of 18, working 2 daily hours more than european and american counterparts and 4x extra hours on average
>meanwhile studying engineering at college
>have to go trough all sorts of weird shit in life, from taking completely full public transport to being shit on by work colleagues because labor laws in your country are non existant
>finally get free time for 30 minutes in a saturday
>bronswe the internet
>find out about a website called tumblr where gaijins express how shitty their lives are

I've been there and not really. Maybe in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia but we weren't there. In fact places like Turkey and Tunis are not even worst than for example Italy or Greece in that regard (and I mean in this specific regard) and even in less progressive cities most people is very respectful at least towards tourists. There's a deeply ingrained hospitality culture so they can't go too far with the girl specially if she is with me, I'm a guest and so is she.

The chinese girl was mad at petty stuff like flattering comments or the hotel guy asking who of his male companions was his husband.

Don't put words into my mouth, kid, i'm straight. WTF with your sexual blah blah things ? i just want to show to Veeky Forums some fun history facts.

Typically, when a civil war or large conflict occurs of a revolutionary nature (such as peasantry vs nobility, citizens vs militarized government, etc..) and the revolutionaries lose, things quiet down and go back to status quo. However, in Europe's case at least, when revolutions failed (and oh boy did they almost always fail) within two generations the revolutionaries had succeeded in getting what they ultimately wanted. See the failed revolutions of 1848 which seemed to span every continent. Even Canada had a small armed revolution that year.

When China has a civil war, or gets into a conflict, whatever group wins or loses the status quo remains the same. China has had, more or less, the same method of governance for most of its recorded history until the 1800's.

When you are in a constant state of conflict, and large swaths of your nation rise up in rebellion or split off for a few decades or you are invaded constantly by your neighbors and nomadic tribes you don't have enough time to sit the fuck down and think about things like feminism and gay rights.

This post assumes that West is some kind of magical utopia where working class doesn't exist, everyone has good income and is a liberal.
Yeah, Turkey and Maghreb are relatively okay except Turkey is currently going through some weird semi-islamist phase. But in Saudi Arabia women aren't even allowed to drive a car if i recall correctly.

Also Iran and Afghanistan.

>This post assumes that West is some kind of magical utopia where working class doesn't exist, everyone has good income and is a liberal
No, I never said that.
Working class exists, and that's why there's still a lot of people who are simply not SJWs, if you'd be so kind as to allow me to use this expression.
But for some people, notably younger ones, it is true, and for them life is easy as fuck.
So if my green arrows work for you then you probaly are, in fact, a SJW.

TL;DR there wasn't a problem

Small stigmas existed but nothing like the west where people are burned, killed, raped, put in prison, chemically castrated, etc

The west has always been too overtly emotional in their response and as a result find solutions that are too far reaching.

I've been in Iran and the difference between the law and how people acts is extreme. It's not Europe (of fucking course) but it's completely bearable. I was with a couple of eastern euros for a long time and the locals never did a single thing that made her or her boyfriend complain or feel harassed. She was just mildly pissed at having to wear the scarf and "of course" the fact that the couple wasn't married got them trouble in hotels before they learned you don't have to be sincere since nobody is gonna check it.

Later I got to visit a bit of rural Iran and of course it was very different. Nothing horrible or anything though, just outdated, early 20th century style.

I have not been in Saudi Arabia but as far as I know strangers don't suffer it too much. It may be like in Iran, you just have some silly laws that are not really important. Or maybe not, it's an absolute monarchy in the 21th century after all. As for Afghanistan it would be safe for woman if it wasn't for the fact that groups of fanatics are literally waging a war there. It's not good for them in Syria or Iraq either but it kinda was before the war.

I don't know, maybe it's because I'm not a northern-western european where even speaking too much about gender roles can get your into trouble. But in my experience the treatment of woman in most of the middle east is outdated, not cruel or brutal, specially by the people.

Now you label all who are middle class and go to college as SJW's. Very good generalizations.

thnks

By all this what I come to say is that I'm sure that, de facto, the treatment of woman in China is probably not better. Outside of a few elite urban circles of course.

I've heard Iranian youth is mostly liberally-oriented these days. Kinda funny when you think about it, it was the youth as well who spearheaded Islamic revolution of 1979.

That's mostly the urban middle class youth to be honest. And sadly the first plan of most of them is to leave the country as soon as they can.

You are the one trying to insert obscure "cuck" memes into historical context (no one outside of internet wierdos will know WTF you are even talking about if you started yelling KEK on the street) You put the words in your own mouth

Legalism forbade Homosexual intercourse.

But then again Legalism forbade a lot of things, usually the reason being "people find this fun and it distracts them from righteous behavior, have the law ban this shit."

Muslims treat their women abominably.

You don't have to be a feminist to realize that.

Identity politics are a bourgeoisie luxury and in the end serve the interests of the capitalist. Japan, Worst Korea and (to a lesser extent) Russia had neoliberal capitalism thrust onto them by the West it was not a choice the body politic of those nations consciously chose. The rejection of the upper tiers of the social luxury of identity politics is as many other anons have pointed out due to wealth or the lack thereof in India, China and Russia, and a lack of agency in the case of Japan and Worst Korea.

Asia had its time with feminists but:
1) in China, Vietnam and NK it's the Soviet-style feminism, as in - independent feminist woman is a woman who works at ammunition factory 14 hours a day with no vacations while raising 8 kids, so I doubt it's the same feminism you're talking about
2) in other countries it had little academic support
3) in countries like India, feminism is mostly concerned about getting local muslims to treat their women like people and helping police to find rapists.

And when it comes to gay rights, it's simple - Asians give no shit.

>Britain has had several very successful queens
Two.

There's no such thing as homophobia
Only right judgement, and all faggots need to be put down

Do you reckon it is due to consistent level of conflict that afflicted the mulsim peoples as there was no central authority(No caliph, centralized jurispudence) to mitigate social conflicts that escalated into large scale conflicts without oversight, that caused males to be come dominant and hide their women because of inter-tribal slavery and raids, which led to the 'subjugation' of women.

This became tradition as they had no other alternatve until the past 70 or so years of global modernization. The only nations with change that is still islamic is mostly far removed from origin point like Arabia and Middle east, nations like Albania, some of the central asian nations and maybe Turkey and to an extent Morocco.

But once again this does not entirely explain the attitudes of the South East Asian muslims.

When the economy goes to shit, people tend to revert back to traditionalist and conservative ideals which explains the rise of people like Donald Trump. The Muslim world has been in decline ever since Europeans found ways to sail around the world which made the overland trade routes irrelevant

I wouldnt say there wasnt a problem....if you were gay an clasical china you couldnt lead a gay life...while(social rank depending) you might have been able to discretly lead a side life you were expected to keep such things deeply private and mary and father children.....thats still a pretty homophobic culture

also concepts of gender tended to stigmatize the bottom becuase it was thought of as being imasculatingly effeminate

a decent depiction of some of this is Farewell My Concubine

>The Muslim world has been in decline ever since Europeans found ways to sail around the world which made the overland trade routes irrelevant
But that decline is pretty much turned into a torrent of failures for the Muslims from what I can understand, they lost their hold on the trading goldmine of india and the east, lost their grip on the Silk Road, lost the monopoly on warfare during the 17th century to the european colonizers, armies and fleets.

Because being a faggot is a social construct.

Can't maintain those things without a positive cash flow. Just look at Europe, most European nations have been in recession for years, Germany maintains manufacturing but can't maintain growth without mass immigration, the UK has no industry other than banks and now begs China for investment, Southern Europe is reduced to tourism economies where people live with mommy and daddy into their 40s.

>implying feminism is about individualism
Feminism is collectivist.

Nope

Correct

Women are treated far better in China than in historical China, and most of the muslim world.

Objective studies show this to be true.

>None of these things have anything to do with your feelings of sexual inadequacies or your 21st century view on sexual dominance that only exists on the fringes of right wing internet
What? Who are you even responding to with this?

>Implying feminism isn't more than one thing.

There are communitarian, libertarian, liberal egalitarian, marxist, etc etc etc versions of feminism.

Anyone who bitches about "feminism" is literally the guy in the pic

Because societal infrastructure determines superstructure. You need to understand first why feminism happened in order to understand why and where it spread.
I can only recommend you to read "Why Women Left Home" and "Why the Gays Came Out of the Closet" by Marvin Harris.

nothin' like ad hominems to prove how 'right' you are, aye?

hating women isn't going to get you laid

that's not an ad hom friend

>they lost their hold on the trading goldmine of india and the east
That was the whole point of wanting to get to India the hard way by European explorers and their sponsors.

They couldn't anticipate that there was another continent in the way, but still.

Feminism is very self-contradicting, even specific branches often rely on double standards and unequal treatment.

>we can do whatever we want and if you complain we won't fuck you

And you wonder why people don't like modern feminists

because they sound exactly like men pre-feminism?

feminism means a million different things to a million different people. There is no leader of feminism nor is it an organized movement with a set philosophy

Never did I imply that it is, or that it had. If you read my post, you can see that I mentioned that.

So you're saying feminists are fedoras?

>Why didnt feminism, gay rights and the such spread to Asia as ferociously as it did in the West?
plato.stanford.edu/entries/rights-human/

East Asia is the region of the world that participates least in the international human rights system—even though many East Asian countries do participate. In the 1990s Singapore's Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew and others argued that international human rights as found in United Nations declarations and treaties were insensitive to distinctive “Asian values” such as prizing families and community (in contrast to strong individualism); putting social harmony over personal freedom; respect for political leaders and institutions; and emphasizing responsibility, hard work, and thriftiness as means of social progress (on the Asian Values debate see Bauer and Bell 1999; Bell 2000; Sen 1997; and Twining 2009). Proponents of the Asian values idea did not wish to abolish all human rights; they rather wanted to deemphasize some families of human rights, particularly the fundamental freedoms and rights of democratic participation (and in some cases the rights of women). They also wanted Western governments and NGOs to stop criticizing them for human rights violations in these areas.

At the 1993 World Conference on Human Rights in Vienna, countries including Singapore, Malaysia, China, and Iran advocated accommodations within human rights practice for cultural and economic differences. Western representatives tended to view the position of these countries as excuses for repression and authoritarianism.

There's human rights

And there's irrelevant shit like gay marriage or third gender toilets.

And there are these Asian values that are not part of either program.

>LE CONFUCIUS = AUTHORITARIANISM
Go back to arguing about Marx or something.

Not the same user, but I just want to say, that is a good description of some types, but not all types, of female feminists.

Never did I imply that.

Heaven's sake, you're stupid.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCDuJKKW_s

Yet, as events AFTER 1993 had shown (plus active manipulation of the, ugh, narrative of history before 1993, I hate that term) Singapore, as far as I know, is constantly violating even the most basic of human rights.

Remember that one time in 1997 when they tried to sue a rival politician for being a politician? And took said guy to the British Privy Council where the case was thrown out?

Let's go a bit further. In 1959, the English-educated Lee Kuan Yew teamed up with the Chinese-speaking communists to tap into the Chinese-speaking majority at that time to gain votes, then conveniently sold them all out during Operation Coldstore. Also during the same operation, they gutted the Barisan Socialis using trumped-up charges on them being communist. It also goes without saying that Singapore has, on its laws, forbidding Communist sources to be brought up.

In the 1970s Lee Kuan Yew rounded up some Catholics on suspiscion of them being Marxists, presumably after the Vietnam Boat Peoples and Communist Japan seizing an oil refinery.

Not to mention the recent events of suing conspiracy theorists, jailing rival politicians for crude criticisms of the ruling party, arresting idiot foreigners for being complete fucking idiots and flagrant violations of the UN Rights of the Child.

I'm not denying that there is space for Asian values even within the Western framework. It's extremely telling when Singapore has zero high ground to stand on when history and even Lee Kuan Yew himself does otherwise.

>weird shit in life
>from taking completely full public transport
Here we see another victim of the American car culture

When I was volunteering at a nursing home in the laundry room, the head laundrywoman was Turkish and she kept telling me to take a break and sit down.(I'm a guy) But she didn't tell another girl in the room to do the same.

Islamic cultures tend to be very traditionalist, with domestic roles.
I heard in Iran some woman were supportive of the revolution because their husbands started balling and seeing other women.

I don't think outside Saudi Arabia, radicals and the whole FGM thing women in Islam are particularly "oppressed", though they do deserve more rights.

This is a load of horeshit

2/3 of all female billionaires are Chinese

China literally has twice more female billionaires than every other country combined. The only effective explanation is gommie sexual liberation, which in the long term actually did something unlike the backlash gweilo third wave is doing

No.

That is because a lot of industries are state-owned and influenced, so it is more politics than business acumen.

Or it could be that the Chinese female is massive as the Chinese population is massive.

Different sets of values

Western philosophy is all about introspection and subsequent individualism

Feminism and gay rights are detrimental to established social structures which is a huge no-no for the collectivism of easterners

Communist ideology is about equality, among other things. Most interpretations and implementations communism take that to mean men and women should be treated equally-- at least superficially. Even a revolution overthrowing millennia of imperial rule can't change culture on its own.

What exactly are you replying to? Everything I've said can be backed up with news reports, HRW citations, you name it, I can fucking cite it.

Then do it.

I think eunuchs had a little to do with it.

How come eunuch culture wasn't so big in Europe but was under the Ottoman empire and many East asian countries?

It was among the monarchical Greeks, and with the late Roman Empire, and Byzantium.

Also we can throw in Castratos.

Also Eunuchs were a super tiny minority to ever influence society at large. And they weren't into gay shit. Memefully in China, they're known to indulge in BDSM and Overeating. "May you sleep with a eunuch!" is a common insult among Ming-Qing Period Chinese prostitutes. It means "may you get beaten thoroughly."

How are such people allowed in the academy? I never went to uni and I have a simple professional education, but everytime I see stuff like this I only can imagine hell of these institutions.

This. Edo period Japan wasn't particularly homophobic.

...

>It comes close to infringing some pretty basic human rights.
>honor killings
>stoning
>pretty close

>Women are treated far better in China than in historical China, and most of the muslim world. Objective studies show this to be true.

You mean woman in all of China or just urbanized area? They literally kill their daughters in rural China.

>When I was volunteering at a nursing home in the laundry room, the head laundrywoman was Turkish and she kept telling me to take a break and sit down.(I'm a guy) But she didn't tell another girl in the room to do the same. Islamic cultures tend to be very traditionalist, with domestic roles.

I'm a spic in south-europe and I can tell you this could've happened both in south-europe and latin america. I'm actually surpized you consider it worthy of being told as an anecdote. My grandma literally didn't allow men in the kitchen until my aunts and cousins who are rabid feminists pressured her.

Of course, you can also find the "feminist" mom in her 40s who will constantly tell you men are all lazy, because she's butthurt about her husband, even if you work better than your female companion. But I'm sure they exist in Turkey too and maybe even in Morocco, there's just fewer.

Eunuchs are a result, not a cause. They exist because husbands don't trust their women.

Kek I knew the overeating thing, but not BDSM.

>mfw I share tastes with chinese eunuchs

They stone and honor kill men too in the places they do that.

Do you have a micropenis, perhaps?
It makes sense if you can't brutalize women with your meatstick.

Actually I'm above average. How is brutalizing women with your meatstick not part of BDSM?

How insecure are you?

Well, give me some topics to wrok with then.

I have no idea what you are objecting to.

Yelling "cuck" is a sign of insecurity and sexual jealously with racial connotations.

this is genius on part of the university
its like taking candy from a baby with the idiots that will fork over their parents cash to get a degree on memes and proceed to be unemployed fucks

ha, c u c k

It happens to most religions.

Calling all Chinese women fat is racist and inaccurate, user.

Aw, you don't know how to speak at the table

because asians are smart enough, and have a civilization old enough to know how to embrace modernity without the religious/ideological extra baggage

Ah, so the answer would be very insecure.

wtf my wife's son and I hate men now

How insecure are you?

They did take off, it was called Communism. China destroyed its entire culture, much like te West is doing today.

Many Japanese movies reflect the idea of individuality and personal freedom, and an ambivalent conflict between social expectations and individuality. I mean of course live action and especially art films, not anime.