Well capitalists? I'm waiting for an answer

Like wages are the only expenses that have increased.

>health insurance
>taxes
>regulations
>commodities
> ect.

Raising minimum wage will be just one more burden on businesses.

The end result will be more people will be laid off and will make automation investments more valuable.

Video related

youtube.com/watch?v=JOcz-H5u3Rk

Every smart business should already be moving to automation as much as possible. It's going to happen regardless.

Okay smart guy

How much SHOULD minimum wage be?

As a consumer, I am very much looking forward to ordering from automated machines instead of dealing with some snotty ass, self entitled, nigger who can't speak English and might spit in my food.

Fuck you $15 unskilled laborers.

You are only hastening your own unemployment.

>frequenting fast """"""""food"""""""""" establishments
>ever
Stop pretending you're any different from those niggers, poorcuck

Wages should be set where one person agrees to voluntarily works for and for what the other person or business is voluntarily willing to pay.

Using government force to over pay people should be illegal and a violation of rights.

I know but I wanted to hear what he thinks

>raising minimum wage increases prices even more.

what's hard to comprehend you retard?

Good nuff for warren buffett

>Go to the dollar store in 2004.
>Price of crackers: $1.
>Go to the dollar store in 2016.
>Price of crackers: $1.

$12. A steady increase to keep workers able to afford food and for businesses to shut the fuck up.

Though, since people like you are brainwashed, said businesses can just raise the prices in response and sell it off as, "muh profit margin."

>inb4 cuck faggot bernout numale communist

>no federal minimum
Business A: Okay I'll just pay workers X.
Business B: Hmm, business A is able to pay his workers less. I will too.
Business A: Now that myself and B are at the same wage I can safely lower it again.
So on and so on. Look at China.

cuck faggot bernout numale communist

>why has inflation continued to rise despite constant minimal wage
>because of inflation

great logic there you tit

> Raging against the machine while standing in the welfare line
> Proud soup kitchen regular taking on the corporate beast

lol

We see alot of homeless SJW's like you around sleeping in the streets of berkeley.

Oh look business C raised his wages and took all of our good employees

holy shit they are making more money than us because they have the best workers, better raise our wages to attract better people

McDonald's raked in I believe a billion dollars in profit a year or two back. Why the fuck do I need good employees if I can pay the ones that are stuck with me dirt.

Minimum wage isn't for the businesses that want to pay their workers.

>go to the dollar store in 2004: price of crackers: $1. Ounces of crackers in the package: 16.
>go to the dollar store in 2016: price of crackers: $1. Ounces of crackers in the package: 8.

McDonalds doesn't owe them a job, luckily for them they have managed to make it so easy that mentally retarded people can do it successfully and they have the McUniversity that educates retarded people into managers.

Why should useless people be paid more than they're worth? Mcdonalds will do more good for the world with the capital in their hands than giving it away to niggers that are just going to spend it on an Iphone 6 and new Jordans and still starve.

McDonald's doesn't pay min wage. You're not helping yourself here.

really makes you think... :(

He asked why prices rise

I wasn't quoting OP

>better raise our wages to attract better people

Said no one, anywhere, ever...

Even the tech world which prides itself on being this egalitarian meritocracy was exposed as having absolute wage collusion industry-wide, led by Apple, at the highest levels, to both suppress wages and keep people from jumping companies. If you left the farm, you were basically unemployable, jumping from shitty failed startup to shitty failed startup getting paid in toilet paper stock hoping for a unicorn.

As for the OP's point, it makes the underlying assumption that people make the argument that raising the minimum wage, AND THAT ONLY RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE, leads to inflation, and that's not true. No one's ever made that argument. There's plenty of factors that cause inflation.

As for whether raising the minimum wage does, I actually don't believe it does. No through any voodoo economics shit or communist leftist logic, but through the simple fact that raising wages increase unemployment, hence there isn't this net increase in low level demand. If I'm paying you $6/hr, and now I have to pay you $15/hr, you better increase your productivity dramatically. You either will, and I'll keep you, and my unit labor costs don't actually change much, or I lay you off.

Actually, jury is still out on whether raising minimal wage increases unemployment. Basic micro says yes, but empirical evidence is 50:50. I think the latest studies were done on Seattle and how it works there.

>absolute wage collusion industry-wide

ok buddy keep reading CNN.com and believing that offering more money to attract talent doesn't exist anywhere ever

Even the evil greedy capitalist Henry ford invented the $5 dollar a week pay, which was the first time businessmen thought about treating their works better instead of always trying to cut their pay. Guess what? It decrease employee turnover and increase production.....

You liberals really must drink koolaid mixed with paint thinner to make these anti capitalism rationalizations

>10 cents above minimum
So people really do fall for these tricks then? Look how gracious we are, a whole extra dime.

It varies by industry.

But yeah, depending on the dominating industries of the area minimum wage is changed, there could be dramatic changes in unemployment. Industries with large numbers of minimum wage workers are obviously the most affected, but they are also the most able to take a hit in profits, as they're usually large corporations (again, that varies by area).

This is why a higher federal minimum wage can be a double edge sword. Certain areas will experience better effects than others, and if the overall is beneficial, everyone pats themselves on the backs and calls it a job well done, when there are, in fact, areas that were much better off before. So why didn't the states/areas that benefited just vote to increase their state's minimum wage? People would've been better off everywhere. It's because they're stupid, or don't give enough of a shit unless celebrity politicians are involved (i.e. the fucking president is the only politician most people know anything about).

There are better ways of doing things, but not with such a stupid, apathetic population.

Money is spent regardless, user. Mcdonald's would be more apt to be a liability to an economy in your situation, as at least the niggers you reference are spending. Either way, it will end up in the hands of a big corp and probably be left to stagnant.
>blue is the better color because green isn't

Also, I got so caught up on your second paragraph I forgot to ask how exactly you disproved me.

i was kind of agreeing with you actually. It's just im saying completely ethical and just that McDonalds SHOULD pays their employees dirt because it requires dirt people, where you believe it's immoral that the evil greedy investors keep their profits.

Try $2.

How does it feel getting pulverized?

In Europe maybe, but not here. It's $8.39, user. So 14 cents, my bad.

I'm getting tired of this thread, and I should get some work done. So I'll leave with this.
Just because they're dirt people (I hate the majority of people. Bill Burr calls them 'in the way' people.) But it's in the best interests of society to keep these people fed and complacent/give them a modicum of comfort. Because we need the lowest common denominator. A judge of a country is how well off its poor are imo.
I'm glad this didn't devolve into the usual ad homs or partisan memes.

There are only so many jobs.

Resources are limited and jobs are a resource.

There are literally not enough jobs in the world for all the people to work. You will run into the problem of skilled people working in unskilled jobs.

That's the real problem with people people shitty wages, is that someone who puts in the time and effort can still come out the other end stuck at the bottom.

Last I looked there were 140 million(ish) jobs in America and over 240 million people of working age.

What are the other 100 million people supposed to do?

Start businesses

>altrusim
>self-interst

pick one

The fact is altruist countries do not work and fail miserably

The other fact is greedier more capitalistic countries prosper.

You still run into the issue of market share. There are only so many customers too.

Since 1950 American greed has gotten way out of hand.

The gap now between rich, and middle-class + poor is worse than it has ever been in history.

We could literally raise the minimum wage to $15/hr and not raise the price on a single good or service, if the owners of capital and C-level people in society would just accept less income.

* error
* error
* there is no option for no pickles sir
* takes a full 2 minutes to perform a simple order

Yeah these will go great.

minimum wage is 7.25 retard so try 1.14

Funny thing is, losers like OP sit there and pondering useless shit until he eventually an heroes, or gets a job at a fast food restaurant... fulfilling his destiny as the lowest cog in the capitalist system.

lol

>I'm so right about everything. So so right my reality exists only.

Jesus Christ, its a fast food ordering machine. It's not that complicated.

Japan has been using ordering kiosks for decades and they've worked great. I love their small fast/casual restaurants...

Are there any fools out there that somehow think their fucking waiter/cashier jobs CANT be automated?

Fucking $15 minimum wagers are dumber than we thought.

that happens independently of capitalism

>Under capitalism

The USA should not be even considered a capitalist country anymore, all our problems should now be scapegoated on socialism at this point.

Why do you pick $12? What makes $12 or $15 or $1 the "right amount"? Did you just pull a number out of your ass that is somewhere north of what the current minimum wage "no one is complaining about" but below the "fight for $15" amount everyone acknowledges is crazy? Did you pick your own wage perhaps? How to you square the circle that minimum wage laws don't actually end up paying people more, they just put people who aren't worth the value out of a job?

What exactly IS the logical and rational basis for this answer you've provided aside from "it feels right"?

None, government should fuck off and let people work for what they want to work for. If you won't work for less than $15/hr then go apply to those jobs. If I'm willing to work for $5/hr then I will

It has risen, and the fed are pushing it to be even higher now. The fuck you smoking?

How's the self checkout at the grocery store working out for you?

Which is faster, a human or the self checkout?

Capitalists are right, we shouldn't increase the minimum wage. Hell, there shouldn't even be a minimum wage.

Government should just provide people with shelter, food and the basic necessities of life, the kind of stuff you can get for minimum wage. And we can just take all that money from the rich to pay for it in one way (taxes) or another (printing money).

>>/pol/

Here you go OP.
youtube.com/watch?v=A9UmdY0E8hU

That's called a strawman.

screw a minimum wage. lets just give all citizens a living wage.

The only way to save the world and lead to the best standard of living is to take money from the obscenely rich and give to the less privileged. In addition, the world population needs to be a third of what it is currently for there to be enough resources for high standards of living.

and what the fuck do you think inflation is?

how do you think they measure how the value of currencies change?

This guy ignores so many fucking things, does the standard liberal tear.

>Hurr Durr Look at americunts poo in loo

>minimum wage is the same everywhere
Hah. Minimum in Ontario, Canada is 11.25/hr (roughly 8.50) and YES we get minimum wage from McCucks.

t. A Mcwagecuck

P.S. our top paid wage manager makes $13.70/hr, and he's been working there for 22 years.

>inflation
Wew

>is to take money from the obscenely rich and give to the less privileged
So actual thievery? Not just >tax is theft but literally stealing from them?

Thank Jebus you'll never hold political office

Heard of robinhood? It doesn't matter if you take a billion dollars from someone like Bill Gates. His way of life isn't affected at all. It's not touching the economy sitting in a bank. If it's redistributed to those who need it nobody loses crime rates plumet and standards of living go up. Economies skyrocket. So what if you took from a few people who never needed the money anyway. The alternative is crime death destruction.

Even if you took a billion dollars from Bill Gates that is just 0.006% of the US GDP. It is a massive violation of individual rights for virtually no net gain, I also doubt a single cent would go to the homeless or whoever in a system that corrupt.

Because the treasury department keeps printing money.

>at least 50 years old

LOL just bill Gates. You're funny. The top 1% in this country alone own 35% of the country's wealth and the top 20% own 85% of the countries wealth. That is some extreme inequality there. That sounds like a massively Injust system with the most overpopulated prisons. A system with tons of crime and unnecessary death. Oh wait that's already our system. I'd be happy if the top 20% paid an incremented higher tax towards the creation and funding of social services.

If unskilled jobs ever become machine jobs, the government will just step in and provide more benefits to those who would find themselves without employment opportunities.

Right now the problem is that there are not many well paying, low skill jobs (compared to earlier decades) and people don't want to work for peanuts when they can sit home and collect comparable gov money via disability, unemployment, welfare. Further disassociating them finding employment isn't going to fix shit. It's just going to balloon welfare programs and make everyone that is working pay even more since the economy will have become even more inefficient with the allocation of labor.

So, no, mechanization taking away Jamal's McJob because he wants to make a little more money isn't going to be seen as a punishment. Jamal is making a good effort to participate in the economy, evidenced by his gainful employment, but greedy d-bags such as yourself want to put him onto welfare out of spite.

You know who is going to end up suffering the most for that transition? It's not the corporate overlords at McDonald's who will benefit from automation. It's you, and everyone else in the underclasses. Collective greed against low-income service workers because the common perception is that they are "greedy" is an extremely poor choice in a time where participation in the workforce is at record lows, more people than ever are on disability and food stamps, et. cetra.

Fucking think about it before you shoot the nose off your face. Welfare is not going away (the people won't allow it), so don't make a piss poor decision out of spite when you don't even comprehend the situation which we are now facing. I'm not saying minimum wage has to go up to $15.00/ hour everywhere, but automation without taxation on the beneficiaries of said automation is going to fuck our collective shit up.

Doesn't preclude it either.

Massive violation of human rights. Lel. The right to all the money and capital in the world that everyone else starves and you are left the sole survivor owning everything.

Yeah, I actually didn't think about this tbqh. It would be nearly impossible to get rid of social programs because of how fucked our job markets are. It's only going to get bigger by automation, so what replaces it? Sounds like another 2008 bubble.

Since when are the countries highlighted red altruistic? (I assume that image is thought to prove your point.)

>the government will just step in and provide more benefits to those who would find themselves without employment opportunities

I doubt this.
In Scandinavia, probably. In Central Europe, maybe. In the US? Not so much. You do not even have a public long-time unemployment insurance.

Automation will only be staved off for so long. Ludditry isn't the answer. I suspect we are just going to end up with huge numbers of unemployed people collecting bennies. It's a narrative that fits well with wealth inequality. Of course, not all poorfag jobs are going to be eliminated through automation, but I'm sure fast food still employs millions of workers which could be replaced with ease.

There are multiple ways by which the poor get government assistance. I didn't say life would be good on those systems. There are loads of people who subsist on what the government will give them, even when it's paltry. I personally know a quite a few people like this. They don't have better prospects, so they've become helpless and reliant upon the government.

>There are multiple ways by which the poor get government assistance.

So how comes there are huge amounts of homeless people in the United States?

Not that I do not trust your claims, I am simply interested. In most of Europe, we have transparent social safety nets. In the United States, there are none, yet there is always talk about Americans living on welfare.

There aren't very many homeless people. I believe it's about 500,000 at any given point in the year, which is less than half a percent of our total population.

add 2-3,000,000 to that and you're in the ballpark.

I live in a metro of about half a million people and rarely see homeless people desu. I trust the 500,000 figure. The amount of genuinely homeless people is fairly low (people on the streets, living in their cars, in shelters). If you add in people staying with a friend the figure probably jumps a bit but even 3m people is less than 1% of the US population.

Inflation is the correct answer.
The government is printing money, as such 1 dollar today purchases less than 1 dollar last year.
People sometimes refer to inflation as a hidden tax, which in a sense is true as the government devalues every dollar that exists currently by printing more.

I would really doubt this number, as even in Germany, with better (actually, almost complete) social safety nets and less total population, we have around 300.000 homeless.

Goto Sheetz gas station when its crowded. Holy fuck the imbred retards there taking up 5 minutes at the menu scrollimg through everything hitting every single fucking button.

I want to palm the back of their heads and smash it into the machine like im arnold schwarzenegger.

Bill Gates doesn't keep his billions in the bank though. Most everyone with spare cash above basic savings keeps it in various investments where it continues to do real good for the economy. That money is helping companies build new factories, expand their products and services, and develop new technologies.

The ultimate conceit of socialism is that a bunch of useless layabouts know better how to spend any given pile of money than the man who used his wisdom and skill to earn it.

Raise the fucking middle wage. Those poor ass motherfuckers immediately spend the fuck out of their grubby pay checks. Great for the economy.

Autistes: The Glazed McGuffin Affair.

Increasing the minimum wage doesn't just effect people who earn $8.50, it effects everyone who earns between $8.50-$14.99

Lets have an example shall we?
I own a business that sells Glazed McGuffins.
I have 3 employees that I pay $10 an hour, 20% above the minimum wage.
Each McGuffin costs $1 to make and sells for $2.

Now, lets say that I sell 50 McGuffins an hour.
That's $100 in revenue ($50 is profit)
So, for that hour, I pay each of my workers $10 ($30 total)
So I make $20 an hour, but I have to reinvest some of my profits back into my business so I can produce Glazed McGuffins more efficiently .

Now, lets see what happens when I increase the minimum wage.
I sell 50 McGuffins
$100 in Revenue ($50 is profit)
Of the $50 remaining, each employee gets $15
Now, I the owner, make only $5 an hour.
In response, I increase the price of my McGuffins to $3.
Now, I’d get $150 in Revenue ($100 of which is profit)
My workers get $45 ($15/hr each)
I get $55/hr
but...
Some people are upset about the cost of a single McGuffin and are choosing donuts instead.
I need to take action to keep prices low.
I fire all my workers
I hire skilled laborers to build me a machine that can put out twice the amount of McGuffins/hr that my 3 workers could.
I return my McGuffins to their original price.

3 jobs are gone. I man the register myself.
But, I now make $50/hr .

Pretty cool, right?

You are actually both correct. It's estimated that about 500k people in the US are homeless at any given time, but as many as 3.5 million will experience homelessness at some point during the year. The good news is that only a small portion of the homeless population is chronically homeless. Statistically they are singles, blacks, males, those with less than a high school education, unemployed, and living in a city. Each of those categories comprises more than 50% of the chronically homeless.

PT Barnum noticed this problem back in 1858

The poor spendthrift vagabond says to a rich man:
"I have discovered there is enough money in the world for all of us, if it was equally divided; this must be done, and we shall all be happy together."

"But," was the response, "if everybody was like you, it would be spent in two months, and what would you do then?"

"Oh! divide again; keep dividing, of course!"

good example. this.

the higher min wage makes the ROI for buying machinery work out. Lower min wage, and the breakeven for automation is too far out

And that's not even mentioning the artificially low interest rate for corp debt are great for capex i.e. automation machinery. Those low rates won't last forever and companies know that. The low rates work best for one-time purchases of machinery that eliminate wages. Great timing to raise minimum wage right? Shoot yourself in the face plebs.

But this isn't true at all. The U.S. Could use purely Indian programmers but they don't, because the quality of work isn't as good as American programmers. The companies that only use cheap labor usually suffer

This

You're missing two things.

>I reinvest to make Glazed McGuffins more effciently

Ok, so what is the new production cost? You said it was 1$ before but what is it now? Or were you lying about making them more efficient?

>3 jobs gone

Yeah and 3 potential customers too. Those people who were a 'drain' on your profits are the same people buying those Glazed McGuffins. A consumer based system can not survive without consumers. If you replace everyone with machines then who will have the money to purchase product?