Was it genocide?

Asturias was literally a visigoth kingdom

Asturian crowns (Leon > Castille and Galicia) were hijacked by the Pamplonan basques anyway

Basques were there before either goths or arabs

A couple of fleeing nobles does not make them the Visigoths. The Visigoths were a joke anyway, Al Andalus was much better

So I can just point at you and laught.

Fucking Mohammeds in this thread... I swear go to your fucking desert and leave Jerusalem too.

Who cares?

I am really sure Iberia remained majority Christian during all that Rule.
Otherwise Arab Muslims fucking suck at fighting.

They do

they stayed christians?
after 1000 years?

They didn't kill nearly enough

They didn't wipe out the Muslims living there.

Forced conversions and mass expulsions happened a lot though.

No, they became mostly agnostic and atheist..

Why not? The Egyptians remained majority Christians till the times of the Crusades.

This also being far away from the core of Islam and much closer to the Christian core of France. Egypt also only became Majority Muslim after some quite heavy persecuting I think.
The southern rump kingdom may have been majority Muslim for all I know though.

Were most people in northern Spain say, Galicia really of Visigoth descent? Or were they still Celts but ruled by a Visigoth aristocracy? Or something else?

>literally no sources on the internet to back any of this up, but it's his possible narrative so he stands by it

Oh, Veeky Forums

>the Visigoths
>Rightful owners of Iberia
The Visigoths were native to modern-day Poland. Conquered peoples' genetic pool is rarely altered by the invaders. Culture is influenced, but overall genetics are hardly changed

That was my point, it's sarcasm. Not only were they foreign but they were shitty rulers too.

Kek, sorry m8 it's hard to read sarcasm

Yeah, the only claim for it to be a REconquest is that they made it go Christian again, but it's not like Christianity wasn't brought to the land via the Romans who were technically foreign occupiers even if they had been there for centuries. I really think the world would be a better place if Spain had remained Islamic, it would have cooled the Islamic world a lot and smoothed over Christian-Islamic relations once Europe reached the Renaissance and such. They wouldn't have been like the Ottomans since they were Europeans and much closer tied to Europe.

Kek Islamic America would probably be even worse than Latin America.

Well I mean technically indo-europeans are foreign occupiers in Europe

Suebi actually
Galicia at least

Jesus christ

>it would have cooled the Islamic world a lot

Hurr durr Islam is violent because of the west. Its all our fault!

Some converted because the taxes but yes, most people remained basically the same. Arabs came, Arabs left and those few Arab populations that remained were expelled during the Catholic Kings' Era.
Second one. The rulers changed, the population not much.

???

A major European country being Islamic would smooth relations both ways.

They didn't commit genocide,they've just forcefully converted a good portion of them and mass expulsed the rest.

Definitely closer to what we call "ethnic cleansing" today, although these words are invoked so often that most people literally don't know what they mean and conceive of it as a synonym for genocide.

Rather we wouldn't count that part as european like we don't do with Turkey

Nope they're wisigoth, they don't look like french.

t. french

There's no way we wouldnt count Spain as Europe.

Turkey is historically Armenian and Greek, and a good portion of the population is ethnically caucasian/european, yet they are considered "other", and more connected to the middle east.

Spain would probably be considered closer to North Africa.

it's ethnic cleansing whether they stay or left.

Seems true thought.

>was it genocide?
No, christian kings came to liberate christian people from islamic oppressors

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozarabs

>The Visigoths were a joke anyway, Al Andalus was much better
Yes goyim, it was much better with their raiding, pillaging, enslaving and genociding

>Things that never happened
But check out Visigothic history, there's like a regicide every 4 years

Except those Armenians and Greeks were expelled/exterminated by Turks, who are the main ethnicity of turkey, not the former.

Those things I said really did happen and there are written testimonies from that time, from some guy who had to flee because he either paid that quranic tax, was converted and worked as a servant, or enslaved/killed. Not gonna do your homework. Look it up.

>muh regicide
And? Yes, there was infighting between visigoths, just like any other gothic occupied areas, because they were settling and being ignorant empire-destroyers.

Muslims back in the day werent that keen on forced conversion, at least for christians and jews

>Except those Armenians and Greeks were expelled/exterminated by Turks, who are the main ethnicity of turkey, not the former.
I am maybe reading this map wrong but it seems like they have had very little genetic influx from the steppe.

Well he should have paid the tax then. Taxes are a part of life, people get taxed for being rich, for being a businessman, or in medieval times, for being a different religion.

And no the Visigoths were exception in the amount of regicide and generally pathetic kingdom they had. 3 centuries of civil war basically and then easily conquered by berbers. They were the worst of the germans

the visigoths arent that important

Spain descends directly from the Kingdom of Asturias, which is the same northern mountain region the Romans had a very hard time conquering, think of the Cantabrian wars.

The nobles of that tiny Kingdom may have been at most third rate Visigothic nobles, or most probably locals, but the bulk of the Visigoths remained in muslim lands after the conquest.
The Visigoths lived mainly in Toledo, Merida, Seville and Valencia, not northern Spain, many converted to keep their lands.
Also, Muslims invaded Spain because they were invited by some Visigoths during a civil war.

The most famous nobles who converted to Islam were these.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qasi

there was no genocide, because even though muslims Kingdoms existed in Spain for over 7 centuries (711 to 1492) by 1250 the Reconquista was over.
Things had not gotten to a point in which the majority of the population had converted to Islam. At that time Egypt was probably still a majority Christian nation.

The last 250 years muslim presence was a tiny Kingdom that was tolerated because it was a vassal state that paid a lot of tribute.
By the year 1030 the muslims were absolutely fucked.

there were a lot of forced expulsions and voluntary emmigration, that is true.
Spain probably lost hundreds of tousands of people during the reconquista, but they fled to north africa, they werent killed.
Before the reconquista, the wealthiest most cultured part of Spain was always the South, even before the Romans with Tartessos.
After the reconquista, the wealthiest region became the north and north east.
I think the reconquista hurt southern spain because the elite of that place had converted to islam and they were expulsed.

Seneca was from Cordoba in southern Spain, and Hadrian was from Seville-Hispalis in sourthern Spain.
Wealthy Southern Spain wasnt an invention of the muslims, it was always the wealthiest part of Spain until the reconquista.

Iirc by mid 11th century like 3/4 of the big taifas were already paying tribute to Leon, Castille and Galicia

yes, after that, the real fight was against the north african empires, not against the muslims of Spain.

The arab world was doing very bad at that time, I think they lost Sicily around that time, and the Byzantines were in a second golden age and had expanded to Lebanon and Northern Mesopotamia.
Turks are the saviours of Islam, if it werent for them the muslim world would have gotten very fucked as soon as 3 centuries after the muslim conquest.