Socialism

I'm lower middle class and I've never had a socialist/communist phase.

So what's with middle-class-cross-necklace-wearing-edgy-college-kids who still believe in Christianity, even through all the archaeological findings, historical research, and literary criticism proves it isn't real?

It's-real-because-muh-Bible-says-so fags not invited.

So what's with middle-class-anarcho-capitalist-shitposter-edgy-college-kids who still believe in Anarcho capitalism, even through all the archaeological findings, historical research, and literary criticism proves it isn't real?

It's-real-because-muh-NAP fags not invited.

The labor movement was killed, but also killed itself.

no one went around to decommission the old propaganda. see also: world war 2.

nah you're stupid

These are usually just liberals, basically the safe Bernie weed lmao type. I think socialists hate liberals as much as anyone else does right now.

>he lives in a country with a massive social safety net
>has convinced himself that 'socialism' doesn't work

>it's another social democracy is socialism episode
BOY I SURE DO LOVE OWNING THESE MEANS OF PRODUCTION RIGHT COMRADE?

>it's another no true Scotsman episode

sauce for that comic?

if capitalism always wins, does that mean its superior to communism?
if so, why would anyone want a global revolution?

>It's another socialism episode where both sides shitpost to death and nobody actually wins

Is Reviewbrah a capitalist? Does he have to die with the rest of the bourgeoise?

>True-socialism-has-never-been-tried fags not invited.
Too bad OP. You can't block out the truth no matter how hard you try.

Alt-Rightie kids just follow their beliefs as a way to distinguish themselves from ordinary people or because they're frustrated with the ruling ideology because they can use it to scapegoat their own shortcomings in life. They have little true allegiance to their beliefs.

Socialism, by definition, is seizing and taking ownership of the means of production from the capitalist class. Concessions by the capitalists to the laborers is not socialism, it's capitalism throwing you Good Goy biscuits.

The comic is also "Action Philosophers", Karl Marx edition.
Ostensibly, capitalism doesn't always win. Marx's argument hinges on the concept that the capitalists are essentially digging their own grave and precipitating an inevitable socialist revolution by their very existence. Social democracy and statists programs have nothing to do with socialism as an economic system, though they compliment socialism as an ideology, by addressing the same complaints of the laborers.
>this job is dangerous
>the pay sucks
>I want a safety-net
>I want a generally better quality of life
The more of these concessions are given the less necessary a revolution will appear to the proletariat, very much the same way a land reform by the czar would have completely averted the revolution of 1917 if Nicky wasn't a stubborn fuckwit.

Kudos. I like people like you, user.

>Ostensibly, capitalism doesn't always win.

But it undeniably has. Even if capitalism precipitates the other horn on Marx's eschatological bull, global catastrophic system collapse, this is a pyrrhic victory for socialists. All the win is the right to gloat 'I told you so'.

Hey, I don't disagree. I'm not a socialist, I just work for them and absorb all the Pure Ideology by osmosis. Someone of that mindset might point out the massive inequality and racial tension in the developed world as a failure of capitalism, but it's easy to rebuke that by showing that the global poor are actually getting wealthier over time, and are better off now than they have ever been. The working class in the developed world has seen the steepest decline in income, which is ironic given they're the people socialists claim to represent, not Mugabe and Omar living on a dollar a week farming yams.

>some website put out a neat chart explaining this but I dont have it on me, take my word for it

Why shouldn't there be workplace democracy and why should the workers have their surplus value exracted by a class of people who do nothing?

Because they voluntarily agreed to have a portion of the value they produced denied to them in exchange for employment.

>inb4 muh wage slavery

How could it possibly be voluntary if they have no choice but to accept it?

>no choice

Where is the gun to their head forcing them to sign a contract?

>le do nothing meme

>MFW

The gun pointed at them forbiding them to use the land to produce goods for themselves and the people around them. The gun forcing them to accept that only the rich can own land and force you into servitude if you want to eat.

Virtue signalling

Because revolution is a fundamentally middle class thing.

I bet you can't name a single revolution that actually happened from below.

You fail to acknowledge the fact the workers have no means of production, i.e., no means of producing value, i.e., no means of buying the necessary goods and services to survive. The ultimatum becomes sell one's labor or die.

Death is a choice.

>muh virtue signalling
>nobody believes in anything it's all virtue signalling

The Russian Revolution. Initially.

>socialism has never worked

t. bolshevik

nice bait

nice argument

The threat of unemployment.

>People who do nothing but live like kings in palaces and have their name on a bunch of land that they never personaly work on are valuable members of society
What did he mean by this?

maybe your perception and choice of company is the problem

Close call user, but the Russian Revolution was still led by an educated middle class elite, Lenin's vanguard.

I can't see how the Russian Revolution could have progressed beyond strikes and uncoordinated resistance without such leadership

>Socialists claim that real socialism has never been tried
>Their argument then becomes "This system that only exists in my mind is the best system ever!"

It couldn't have, and ironically the concept of "false consciousness" developed as the vanguard realized their goals were radically different than the goals of their constituent proletarian army.

Where exactly has workplace democracy been achieved outside of a few coops in the west? The places that claimed to have acheived socialism also claimed to be democracies and we all accept that's bullshit so why is workplace democracy any different?

Reviewbrah wouldn't be a threat to your revolution if you left him alone. You'd just have to quietly tolerate this living contradiction to your most heartfelt beliefs, namely someone with vast wealth you are too impotent to confiscate, yet someone who obtained it without exploiting anyone and is charitable, allocating capital and spending more effectively.

True

t.Socialist

Shouldn't have majored in Sociology, mate.

it's "sex and the city" retard

reviewbrah isn't an issue because he doesn't employ anybody but himself. he would go literally untouched because he doesn't own private property that he employs others to work. he doesn't exploit anyone, as you said, so his work isn't objectionable.

Mondragon Corporation.

>socialism and communism are the same thing

>10 years ago socialists in my country couldn't shut up about Hugo Chávez and the Bolivarian Revolution
>now they just pretend the nation of Venezuela doesn't exist

That's how socialism keep existing even though it never works. Socialists do not base their ideas in history, but in a vision of the future that they share, an utopian future that justify anything. If socialism fails in real life, that's just to be ignored, the perfect socialist future is what truly matters anyway.

Well democratic socialism has been tried and works in countries like Denmark.

people gotta eat

...or the usa.

Don't argue with lefties there's no use

not real socialism

Is this where I get to incorrectly invoke the no true scotsman fallacy?
BUT THEY CALL THEMSELVES SOCIALIST HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY NOT BE SOCIALIST UNLESS IT SUPPORTS MY WORLDVIEW

>The gun forcing them to accept that only the rich can own land
So thats why I always see farmers driving around in Bugattis.

They don't even call themselves socialist you fuckwit. The PM of Denmark called out Bernie Goldberg and basically told him that they were capitalist and not to call them socialist as it is insulting

>This much strawman

Wow dude great refutation! Socialists are soooooo smart!

Im not saying they are bugatti levels but pick up trucks are expensive.

>doesn't produce proper arguments
>demands proper refutation

There's a lot to criticize about how socialism was implemented but please do us all the favor of keeping your retarded /pol/ tier image macros away from here.

A choice made by the ruling class, which tell you through financial means whether you can eat or not, whether you live or die.

You act as if people believe in things by their merit alone, which is a childish notion.

People believe in things generally by the narrative the ideas communicate and as with all narrative theirs:

The way the world is now: Bad
The Bad guys: Capitalists and Bourgeois
Good guys: The workers(or hipster college students)
The Journey: The revolution
The Desired state: Communist society where everyone basic needs are covered.

The world is a chaotic and fucked up place, nobody knows whats going on and nobody knows how the future will pan out. The world doesn't follow a narrative but the hipster college student wants to feel like the hero. Once they leave the safe womb of college they realize the world wasn't as simple as they thought it was, the narrative starts to untangle thread by thread.

If you aren't working with your hands and feel sore after a day of work, you are not fucking working class, I'm sorry. I'm growing tired over spoiled college kids whose idea of work is posting "empowering" blogposts on tumblr pretending they're one of us. They're not. Fuck off.

Put simply, capitalism rewards whoever does the most capitalism and destroys anyone who tries to step outside the system, even just mild Bernie-style social democracy. That's one reason why Venezuela is so fucked. They alienated all their allies. Cuba and Iran don't need them anymore since they've opened up to the US. And their one commodity is oil, which is in a long-term decline of demand. The only real 'socialist' systems that have been successful (however briefly) seem to have been in areas where the main power players were distracted due to war, such as Rojava in Syria right now, the Paris Commune, or anarchist Catalonia. Allende's Chile and Cybersyn may have been a good model, but we'll never know due to continuous deliberate sabotage. Perhaps something else will emerge since the power of the US or any one power to control the entire world is rapidly declining and chaos is rising all over the world. Watch the following regions in the next 10 years: China, Japan, the US, Mexico, Brazil, Greece, Kurdistan, Iran, Spain, Italy, Scotland, South Africa. They either have weak government/economic structures and strong bottom-up social movements, or are very close to reaching the limits of capitalist growth. (Japan, for one, is tilting toward reaction right now, but they have massive amounts of sovereign debt, central banks pushing the interest rates below zero, and an aging/declining population with massive pension demands. They're probably 20 years ahead of the US/EU in a lot of ways)

Because it's the perfect political view for entitled children who have never had to do honest work for honest pay. It promises them the world without them having to lift a finger. Free education! Free health care! Free college! Everything is free! Dosent that sound great? Just vote for me and I'll use socialism to make everything free free free! You can continue to rot in your parents basement and continue to collect even more NEET bux! Just vote for me!

People should not be allowed to vote unless they own land.

But all of that is true user. Just look at what happened/is happening to any socalist country.

As long as there are workers who think they know better than their managers, there will be advocates of socialism. And sometimes, the worker might actually be pretty good at managing, only further reinforcing this.

Workers can't be expected to understand how they don't make the very best managers though. So even though socialism is ultimately inferior, it's understandable that there's still advocates of it.

Doesnt right politics require more from the individual than left?
>oh the taxes are to high
>muh short comings
Bish gtfo

>exploit
The ultimate reason to stay unemployed and poor socialist fag.
Create value, save value, invest value, create value with value, win.

Or you could just live on welfare with the same amount of joy in life.

>Kurdistan
It doesnt exist fuqqin biji socialist cuck

By exploting those workers, socialists care so much about?
This is Sweden in a nutshell...
Why are socialists this retarded?

Socialism has more to do with eliminating capitalists than it has to do with eliminating managers though. Managers would most certainly exist under socialism. The guy who owns the factory and makes the most money from it without even stepping foot in it would be gone though.

Naive contrarianism.

I think the workers look at those who can't work or can't get hired and feel grateful, and look at socialism as being ungrateful. Meanwhile a lot of socialist philosophies are popular with those who are less fortunate than the actual workers, who it would benefit even more than workers.

oh and also, upper-middle-class anything are much more visible than anything else because of their position and size
there's people with those leanings everywhere but they're often too busy to rant and rave, let alone go to protests and make up petitions-- see also any movement that's powered by upper-middle-class white people, they have the time and money to do it

The only good socialism is national socialism.

Libertarians and other types of anarchists need to be encamped first though.

It's a great way to be "radical" and "counter-culture" while not actually being radical and counter-culture, given that being a left-wing socialist is currently "mainstream". If they were actually interested in being radical and counter-culture, they'd be right-wing extremists.
In other words, it's normie shit.

Socialism failing a bunch of times isn't proof that it fails every time.

when did it has succeeded?

The Che shirt wearing hipsters, more often than not aren't socialists, they are liberals.

Also, people are socialists because they aren't content to work excessive hours for minimum wage, when they could directly own what they produce and work for the common welfare of their communities, rather than porky's profit.

When did you has learn write?

>hey look at all of these socialist movements that didn't last very long and got killed dead in their tracks before they were able to do enough damage

1400 years of Shari'ah permitted paedophilia, inbreeding and education/culture based in mindless tradition, rather than productivity or progress, has damaged Islamic intellectual capacity and hormonal balance to the point where they've become a violent moronic savages.
Predominantly Muslim countries such as Iran have an average IQ of around 84, which is about one standard deviation and 14 points below the USA who score at 98.
Cousin marriage, which is considered prestigious and pious in Islam, causes genetic damage that impairs mental function and concentrates genes that lead to schizophrenia.
You know schizophrenia, the illness that often causes people to become violent and isolated and suffer from religious delusions?
The kind where they might believe a racist, slave owning, war mongering paedophile was the last great messenger of some super magic sky man?
Aisha was 9 when 59 year old Mohammed had sex with her.
That's sick and he was a sick disgusting man.
People of other faiths want to grow and change and contribute to the world, Muslims only want to preserve their ways and do not care at all about improving technology, culture or quality of life.
Even most moderate Muslims advocate a shari'ah world caliphate.
The psychological damage of paedophilia and genetic damage of inbreeding mean their children can't live happy normal lives and don't have the necessary brain power to develop a realistic and reasonable worldview.
That's why Muslims need to believe in 'Almighty Allah' who has power over everything, because will power and self responsibility is too much effort and hard work for them.
They become Imams, welfare queens, gang members and religious figures because real work and innovation is too hard and they need to live off handouts and crime.
They are literally just the dumbest and most emotionally weak people on the planet and that's why they can't handle science, objective reality or attempting to seduce and not rape adult women.
They're all too scary.

>hurr I can arbitrarily change defenitions to claim I'm right

i don't know what this post has to do with this thread but i agree, fuck muslims

>Many of these of socialist movements where destroyed my stronger groups because "they aren't us", there greatest leader died, weren't recognized worldwide, or there still being active.

........ Ok?

...

In exactly what way was Dubcek successful?