/rlg/ - Roguelike General

Who needs blows when you have slaying?

They do lose overall speed (1 every 10 levels) and also lose I believe 2 blows by the time they hit level 50.

They'll remove all weapon categories except for m&f and short blades. They're remove all weapons in a weapon category except for the highest damage 1 hander and the highest damage 2 hander, since upgrading from mace to flail to morningstar et cetera is a no-brainer and tedium. The only choice will be whether to play with a shield or not. All that will remain of short blades is the dagger.

They'll get rid of all staves except for the staff of destruction which applies a spellpower boost to all spells and the staff of energy, since swapping between staves for your different spells is tedium and a no-brainer.

They'll eliminate all spells except for fireball and magic dart.

They'll eliminate all monsters except for rats, orcs, orc warriors, yaks, a new flavorless demonic monster, and Orb Guardians.

The only gods left will be Trog, Vehumet, and Dithmenos; for melee, magic, and stealth.

They'll restructure the entire dungeon so that the 1st floor is D:1, the 2nd floor is a 1 floor lair branch with a rune, then 3rd foor is a 1 floor vault branch with a rune, the 4th floor is 1 floor of hell/pan/abyss branch with a rune, and the 5th floor is Zot:$ with the orb of Zot.

Average game times will be 20 minutes, winnable during lunchbreak, and average winrates will stay in single digits because the the average player will be playing the app version and will be distracted by texts from his girlfriend.

>Resist: Slash Impact Body Light Dark
>Weak : Pierce

Jaysus, Chthonic Artemis IS amazing

Maybe I'll actually win Demon for once

this desu senpai

I was this guy I forgot to ask, is Crawl the same as DC:SS? I was never clear on that. If not then which game was I even asking about?

D:1
>Gnollpack
>Sigmund
>Jessica
>all at once
lol fuck me

Damn girl
>Weak : Pierce
lmao

I thought staffmasters get extra blows, but I'm not sure if that is actually the case since it isn't mentioned in my powers. They do retaliate, though which is almost as good on a tonberry.

DCSS is dungeon crawl stone soup

I know, but I was never sure if Crawl was the short form of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. I think I learned DC:SS was based off Crawl or something but I can never remember that sort of thing.

Which game was I asking about? That game looked fun.

the game started out as Linley's Dungeon Crawl, but then 10 years ago or so Linley Henzel got other people in on the development of the game and called the game Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Stone Soup is that one thing about 1 guy has just carrots and the next guy has must potatoes and the next guy has just celery, but together they are able to make a big delicious soup that everyone gets to enjoy.

when people talk about crawl in these threads they're talking about DCSS unless they explicitly state they're playing the ten year old version

Yes, you were asking about DC:SS, called "crawl" for short. If you plan to play on a webtiles server, post name and server so I can have a good laugh at your expenses.

Do any other *bands have the goofiness of PCB uniques and character choices while being less of a monstrous slog?

Okay thank you. What's a webtiles server?

crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto

Grab a server.

Register in 5 seconds on that server.

Press play crawl on any version, 0.1.8 is the last stable version, "trunk" is the most up to date version.

Which modifier is chthonic?

It comes from Python.

I only tried it out because of that comic user posted a few threads ago tbqh, but I'm pretty satisfied.

What should I waste my scroll of acquirement on?

Wand

Cool kids say wands but fuck that boring shit

Go for weapon unless you have something really good already, go for armor if you want a shield despite having 0 shield skill and a 2-hander, jewellry if you want something you'll find in 3 floors anyway, misc if you want to be moderately disappointed, and food if you beware the hunger cost

Yes. It's going to be fun. I wouldn't pass on an opportunity to use a cool unrand when given the chance.

Why is there a unique called python?

I'm a vampire assassin. I worship Makhleb.

Should I train in something other than melee skills/evocations/darts(throwing)? I was thinking about hexes, but don't know if that will take too much away from my melee skill.

I just looked this up because of your post:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_(mythology)
It all makes sense now

Hexes is a bad idea in my opinion.
You can get low level spells like repel missiles, blink, spectral weapon.
You can also learn haste if you don't have many haste potions and no wand. Training haste is only for like late-midgame or later, and you have to carefully consider if it's worth it for your character.

Why do vampires have +4 hexes skill aptitude to start with then?

level 50 tonberry has -5 to speed, -2 to blows, and their confusion resistance is reduced (halved, maybe?)

chengband is like poschengband but without the posband bits

what does that mean

Hexes are not good if you're not stabbing. Even with +4 I don't think it's worth it with a non-stabber. This has been a flaw of the hexes school for a long time, since the Enchantment school got split into charms and hexes.

The devs are trying to address the problem of hexes not being useful enough for non-stabbers by making hexes a secondary school for new spells. This is not working well but at least they're trying.

By the way I recommended spectral weapon and it is part hexes.

Vampire enchanter (a vampire training hexes and stabbing) is a strong and fun combo.

The only really bad one is the confusion vulnerability, since you can't realistically get it much above 20% with the way it scales.

>start as a demonspawn fighter
>find potion of mutation on D:5
>3 tier horns
>randart axe of drain, rage, blink, str+9
I FEEL THE MiBe OVERTAKING ME
IT IS A GOOD PAIN

Why don't they just merge both schools back together and lower apts to make up for it?

>>find potion of mutation on D:5
tier horns
>>randart axe of drain, rage, blink, str+9
>I FEEL THE MiBe OVERTAKING ME
>IT IS A GOOD PAIN
jej

That would be terrible. Both schools are so bogged down in useless bullshit, can you imagine a single school with everything in it?

I mean, of the 40 or so spells they have between them, name 10 that you really want to cast. Nightmare mode: you're only allowed to name spells that weren't removed yet.

Like single school spells or what?
Fear
Confuse
Fulminant Prism
Darkness
Haste
Repel/Deflect Missiles
Song of Slaying
Spectral Weapon
Pain/Warp Brands
Metabolic Ejaculation
Ensorcelled Hibernation
Inner Flame
Portal Projectile (or is this Translocations only?)
Shroud of Golubria
Discord
Dazzling Spray
probably some others I'm forgetting

I'm a FoAK and have 10 in M&F. I found a demon whip of Pain in Lair:7 and i was thinking of branding it with distro. Should i ?

formicid? why not use a greatmace?

The vast majority of those are things you can easily do without. You wouldn't go out of your way to get them.

The good ones are, let's see. Haste, Deflect Missiles, Discord, Invisibility...

That's all I have.

They certainly need to stop giving a secondary hexes school to spells completely unrelated to hexes.

Not hexes: guardian golem, spectral weapon, fulminant prism!!.

Questionable: gell's gravitas, mana viper.

Making these spells hexes does not make people want to inherently train hexes. They just train hexes as an additional cost for the ONE spell out of the above that they're using.

So? The vast majority of conjurations are things you can easily do without too. For basically the entire game you can make do with 3-4 conjurations in your spell list.

Yeah, but that's because most conjurations are good, you're spoiled for choices. Meanwhile it's the opposite with charms and especially hexes, most of them are terrible.

>Making these spells hexes does not make people want to inherently train hexes. They just train hexes as an additional cost for the ONE spell out of the above that they're using.
What is this even supposed to mean? The only reason you train any spell school in the first place is so you can use the spell(s) that require it.

I guess that's true. There's a lot of possible combinations of conjurations you can use, while you'll only ever want the same few charms or hexes spells. So how should charms/hexes be fixed? Merging the schools? Cutting out multi-school spells that sneak in hexes/charms? Adding more effects and a greater variety of spells?

So you say that i should save the branding for a greatmace?

You're a formicid

There's no reason why you wouldn't use a two handed weapon. You don't get any penalties for doing so

>wearing a regenerative troll-skin armor and using vampiric short sword

It feels good man.

It means they're not training hexes to use hex spellS. It means they are, for example, a summoner, and they want mana viper so they train hexes to lvl 3 to make it easier to cast.

Or they are a conjurer and train hexes to make fulminant prism better.

With the spells listed in the previous post, hexes is just "that useless school that they have to put some xp in to make this conjuration/summoning/spectral weapon spell better".

There's still no character who wants to mainly train hexes for the sake of using many hex spells. Except for stabbers. And those who want to play a unique type of character and can handle a harder game.

This is why making random spells that aren't hexes hexes is a bad idea. That is, aside from these spells not being hexes and being forced into the hex category.

>Adding more effects and a greater variety of spells?
This would be the best solution, but the problem is that the game would need more status effects for it to really shine. Still, there's always making variants of existing spells, like bringing back mass confusion and flight and such. I miss those. Pity the trend right now is REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE instead of adding to the game.

As an extensive axe user is it a good idea to carry around the undeadhunter great mace when going to pan/ziggs? I've found it in dis and since i already cleared crypt/tomb i'm wondering if it has any use left

Another problem is that conjurations which work on everything are very easy to get your hands on, status effects are far more limited. I mean when I first started playing I thought silence is completely awesome. But it's not, it's worthless because almost everything you'd want to silence is immune to it.

Distortion is a strong brand but it's extremely unfun to play with if you're trying to kill enemies (you probably are).

And it's bad vs ranged enemies because it blinks them away from you.

Agreed. There's a ton of good and interesting magical effects from decks and even enemies (including those special demonspawn that Sap your magic) but those will probably never be usable by the PC because they're considered too powerful

Hexes are supposed to be situationally powerful since they often completely disable the target from doing anything.
Silence completely fucks dedicated casters, liches, and mummies.
Tukima's fucks over big scary weapon dudes.
Confuse fucks over sentient others.
This is fucked up by high MR and magic immune enemies though. As well as enemies immune to every form of hex.

Wow, why was mass confusion removed? It was one of the strongest hex spells for a non-stabber. That's really stupid. Whoever did this really did a not good thing.

So a given hex might have 10% viability, while a given conjuration has from 60% to 100%

That doesn't seem like a problem? With one spell you can disable a guy, and with another you can kill him on the spot. Why is the second one valued less?

What's the difference between banishing with distortion or killing with other brands besides less exp?

I agree. There are many problems with hexes and the biggest one is "Why does the game think that temporarily disabling an enemy is better than killing it immediately?"

Nothing, aside from meeting banished uniques in the Abyss.

The problem is distortion teleports things away and then you have to chase them all over the level. Or it teleports something dangerous right before you kill it and you have to fight it again. It could sneak up on you from behind unexpectedly while you're fighting something else.

Well, spending three mp to confuse a fire giant is less than spending 18 or whatever to kill it with bolts of cold.

I mean, if it was actually effective at doing so.

because usually your conjurations aren't oneshotting things
or else the things that you CAN oneshot are the ones that aren't really threatening

yeah once you get super high-level conjurations you can start blowing things up real good but that's way more xp than with hexes

Yo hexers are strong as fuck. My loremaster SpEn was disabling dragons, giants and other strong dudes at 30-50% with confuse, which might as well have been deathray once it succeeded. Conjurations are really strong, but you're never going to invalidate a good portion of the midgame with your level 3 spell.

What about having a distro weapon for swapping?

You know that hexes suffer from the same problem, right? The things that hexes are likely to affect on the first shot are the same things that will get one shot by conjurations. Sure, a strong enemy isn't going to be killed by a single nuke, but he isn't going to be disabled by a single hex either. On the contrary, you're probably better off throwing conjurations at him, because at least they're doing something.

Can be useful.

lugonu prevents disto unwield
and greatmaces are common as fuck, user will guaranteed have a huge pile of them by the end of Vaults:1 so he can disto the enchantedest one and keep #2 as a swap for yaktaurs and shit

>M&F on an ant
Everything about this disgusts me.

>He doesn't like drowning in great maces by the end of D

Lmao. Found a manual too.

>picking anything other than M&F

>going longswords or axes and never finding exec/triple

yeah seriously those weapon categories are only for tablards of oka/trog

Then you lose 1 base damage for 2 skill, or 2 base damage and gain cleaving.
You also lose all your hopes and dreams of having fun.

Is there a limit on how many mutations you can have? Because I've quaffed two potions of beneficial mutation in a row and both did nothing.

>You feel fantastic for a moment.

I picked up the Terror Mask in PCB, which has insane stats. However, the last time I dealt with an ancient and foul curse was in ZAngband when it still had a static wilderness. How badly will it fuck me here? Playing a Balrog Swordmaster in case that's relevant.

yes there is a limit

There's a soft cap, yes.

It cuts you off xom's juice after you have enough muts.

can you survive being in melee range of 1 + 1d3 cyberdemons?
(you better have good as fuck shards resist and some 0% or very low% fail escapes)
it also does some other shit but that's the nastiest probably

Well that sucks. At least I got the important mutations, Robust 3, wild magic 3, clarity, and blink

Yes, at least you have those.

You have every mut worth having. What more could you want, user?

Yeah, that would end rather poorly. Perhaps I'll stash it in my house for the time being.

Thanks.

Wasn't there an octopode some time ago that multi-zigged with gozag to get enough potion shops with !benMut? I remember his A screen looking fucking incredible

I want all the muts, all of them. I want to become the perfect being.

I took this days ago. Not like anything can ever change again.

>you have the stone of chaos

>tfw clarity and spamming crystal ball
tornado shatter ball shatter shatter ball shatter shatter ball REPEAT FOREVER

How many tiles is the radius of your LOS with that nightstalker mutation? I've dreamed of getting it but never have. But then again I've only played a handful of demonspawn.