Money is a scam

the government made money so we shouldn't use it. the government makes bad stuff in my opinion. In conclusion we should barter

Other urls found in this thread:

primedice.com/?c=americanboss
bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-17/bitcoin-is-officially-a-commodity-according-to-u-s-regulator
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

or better yet.. use bitcoin

primedice.com/?c=americanboss

>In my opinion
>In conclusion

I completely agree. Do you have a trust fund I can donate money to?

Money is the purest expression of will
Don't believe anyone who says it doesn't matter, it is the closest thing to magic the world will ever know

But how should I barter

I want to go to the supermarket to buy some food, how should I barter with them? Offer them some of my clothes I don't really wear anymore?

The government made bitcoin too. Bitcucks just have a hard time admitting it.

>or better yet.. use bitcoin

To buy drugs off the deepweb? cool bro, but how do I pay my rent, pay for my internet, my cellphone, my car insurance, my health insurance???

No stores anywhere around me accept bitcoin, how do i live

The problem isnt money as much as it is governmental monopoly on the individuums means of survival.
You;ve had this kind of legislation for a long time in different flavours, like 'hunting monopoly for the elites', 'monopoly on the allocation of land', or like now the production and distribution of money. It all boils down to the governing system trying to keep people away from leaving that system. (no matter whether that system could be considered beneficial or good to the individuum)
bitcoin btw. is a interesting development insofar as it doesn't get rid of that social mechanic of refusing the individuums sovereinity like it is often advertised, but it displaces the traditional gatekeepers like banks and replacing them with a tabula rasa that momentaryly is filling with coin-exchanges and nerds, who later will be regulated to death and thus create the new class of leftist bogeymen. Oh, and bitcoin is traceable, which is nice for taxes and legal mumbo jumbo.

Do this and stream it.

you sell the bitcoins after they moon or you make profits off selling other shitcoins, and go to an exchange and convert them to fiat money and pay your bills. Is it really that complicated?

>and go to an exchange and convert them to fiat money and pay your bills

But we're talking about money being a scam. If you have to convert bitcoin to a USEFUL currency (fiat) then that kind of defeats the purpose of BTC being a currency, doesn';t it?

This is b8. I am beginning to think bitcoiners are just elaborate trolls. Nobody can hold these levels of retardation for this long without being at least somewhat satirical.

Some companies accept them and some people accept them.. I pay some people in BTC... in those cases, you dont need them converted into fiat

how is it b8 when each coin costs $580? If you sant see any value of selling and trading something that costs $580, then you are truely the retarded one

>Some companies accept them and some people accept them

Which?

Literally none of my regular expenses accept bitcoin.

In my entire life the only people I've encountered who accept bitcoin is a guy I've bought steroids from who offered a 10% discount if you paid with bitcoin.

Cost $580 what? Oh that's right. Dollarydoos. The thing you guys hate so much (wink).

steam accepts bitcoin for my videogame needs, amazon too and various Ebay merchants. People accept them too, if i want to pay them online

I dont hate dollars, but its harder to move them around the world.. Bitcoin doesnt

>hey guys hey guys!
>there's this new thing called bitcoin! Its way better than cash!
>oh yea? can I pay any of my bills with it?
>no but you can trade it for cash so you can pay your bills!
>lol....

So wait... you are telling me... that I can buy bitcoin with cash so that I can trade the bitcoin for cash so I can pay my bills? Sweet! Sign me up!

I feel like this is too simplistic to be bait so I'll lay it out to you.

Humanity starts with bartering, since it makes everything less benefiecial for all parties (i.e. I work all year for 1000 goats in payment but I don't like goats) we shifted to objects of arbitrary value to expedite the process (i.e. Gold) we then realize gold is too tedius so we have even smaller things represent gold (i.e. Paper Money). The USD would still be in use even if the government went to shit, unless they ruin it. Bartering would bring us back to a far less efficient society.

>steam accepts bitcoin for my videogame needs, amazon too and various Ebay merchants

They accept them but they also accept USD and every other fiat currency.

Explain to me why I should use BTC over USD. Sell it to me as an average person, convince me to switch. Because so far I can only hear negatives of it.

>but its harder to move them around the world

Do average people need to move money around the world other than for illegal activities? Honestly not trying to hate but just explain to me why the average person should use bitcoin.

Because there is so many downsides and i see no upsides for a non-criminal.

by that logic, you shouldnt invest in stocks since you cant pay your bills with mcdonalds and cocacola shares.

Bitcoin is both a currency and an investment

>Do average people need to move money around the world other than for illegal activities?

yes they do.. for example, i cannot carry more than $10k cash when traveling between countries. Carrying more is allowed, but the authorities give you a hard time, and a big risk of confisaction, even if you dont do anything illegal.

Having bitcoin means i have easy access to money, without carrying it on my person.

>i cannot carry more than $10k cash when traveling between countries

Why would you, or any average person need to carry $10k cash when you have credit cards? To get robbed?

>Having bitcoin means i have easy access to money, without carrying it on my person.

Ok so you're travelling with bitcoin. You want to buy something, how do you spend it? Don't you need to convert it to cash? Doesn't seem like "easy access".

is that the only reason bitcoin is better than fiat? Because that's a very weak reason and is also only singular. You're not making a good argument.

Please convince me to switch to using BTC over USD.

Nobody is claiming stocks are currency dumbass. Not all stocks are good investments either.

nothing wrong with sticking to USD.. I just find some uses for BTC to be better than USD.

Also to cash-out? Most countries have their local exchanges, so i can cash out from there.

no stocks are not currencies but BTC is both a currency and a stock-like investment

>I just find some uses for BTC to be better than USD

Like which? Explain me them, seriously i see no benefits to using BTC unless you're dealing in illegal things or trying to hide money

>Also to cash-out? Most countries have their local exchanges, so i can cash out from there.

How would bitcoin be easier for me to use than just carrying my credit cards when im travelling (par your example)?

i just told you the benefits.. its easy to transport abound the world without the hassle.

>How would bitcoin be easier for me to use than just carrying my credit cards when im travelling (par your example)?

Its not easier than credit cards, but then again, not all places accept credit cards either.

One advantage i see over credit cards is the smaller processing fees and no interest fees for bitcoin. You pay more in interest and fees on CC. Tho i will agree that CC is easier for the average person.

>i just told you the benefits.. its easy to transport abound the world without the hassle.

That's not a benefits, that's a single benefit, and it doesn't really compare to credit cards. I don't see why I'd need to carry over $10k cash to a foreign country, in any case, ever.

>not all places accept credit cards either.
Much more than bitcoin, let's leave it at that.

>One advantage i see over credit cards is the smaller processing fees and no interest fees for bitcoin

Transactions take longer and volatility is very high. $1000 in BTC might be $1200 the next day and then followed by $700 the next week, this is not uncommon for bitcoin.

>You pay more in interest and fees on CC

I have never paid a dollar in interest on my credit card and my credit cards has 0 fees.

This. In a world of fiat currencies, crypto currencies are the ultimate currency. If shit ever goes south, you wouldn't have internet to convert your fake currency to USD fake currency, which would also be worthless.

Protip: if you can MAKE more of it, its a worthless (fiat) currency. Hence why the U.S dollar use to be a claim not for gold.

>If shit ever goes south

In which scenario do you imagine the country with the strongest economy, political influence, and military(BY FAR) would allow their currency to "go south"?

Honestly whichever scenario this is, we will probably not survive it.

>Much more than bitcoin, let's leave it at that.
I dont disagree with this

>Transactions take longer and volatility is very high. $1000 in BTC might be $1200 the next day and then followed by $700 the next week, this is not uncommon for bitcoin.

I dont disagree that BTC is volatile, because it is.. but it has outperformed the USD since it was created

>I have never paid a dollar in interest on my credit card and my credit cards has 0 fees.

you must be the rare person that never maxes hout his CC and incurrs debt.. Most CCs come with a yearly maintenance fee anyways. But some have 0 fees, i dont deny that

this.. while i agree that BTC has no intrinsic value.. fiat is also guilty of the same flaws

Bitcoin is not a productive asset. You can't invest in it, you can only speculate.

>but it has outperformed the USD since it was created

That's not a point. The very hallmarks of a currency are low volatility (stability, as in $1 today is worth as close as possible to $1 in some time) and where you can spend it.

BTC fails at both of these. - Limited places accept it as welll as it being highly volatile, jumping up/down in sporadic amounts, arbitrarily. That is AWFUL for a currency. It's good for speculation and gambling ,but terrible for being a stable currency.

>you must be the rare person that never maxes hout his CC and incurrs debt..

Yes I am a regular person who isn't a retard, most people on Veeky Forums or who have a modicum of intelligence are like that.

>Most CCs come with a yearly maintenance fee anyways. But some have 0 fees, i dont deny that

Many are free, some have $60-150 annual fee, which pays itself off because they usually have rewards.

>Transactions take longer
this is true.. the blockchain has come to its limits. It usually takes 15mins to 3 hours for a transaction

With that being said.. Paypal and online transfers may take just as long. Ive spent hours waiting for my paypal funds and online transfers to clear. So there is not much difference.

>BTC fails at both of these. - Limited places accept it as welll as it being highly volatile, jumping up/down in sporadic amounts, arbitrarily. That is AWFUL for a currency. It's good for speculation and gambling ,but terrible for being a stable currency.

I use it as a form of investment (speculation) and as a form of currency. I dont see the problem in speculating and trading it.

Forex traders do the same thing with FIAT, they speculate and trade with them. The only difference in BTC is the volatility. And I can name several FIAT currencies that has had more volatility than BTC in the last year. I dont see any problem in that

>Paypal and online transfers may take just as long

I've used skrill and similar payment processors and they clear in minutes.

My credit card transactions are near instant

>I use it as a form of investment (speculation) and as a form of currency

It isn't investment, it's just speculation. It's about as much as calling beanie babies or Magic the Gathering Cards an "investment". Except I think MtG cards provide more stable growth.

It's a terrible form of currency for the reasons we've discussed.

Just face it, outside of certain things (buying illegal things online, hiding money) bitcoin is not good. There is literally no reason to use it over USD. I can understand BTC over Colombian pesos or something like that, but not USD or euros.

Also, it is incorrect to call Bitcoins as currency.

Traditional currencies have the following properties:

-backed by central bank
-their price is determined by money flows, imports, and exports
-there is a set of natural users for it: the local consumers, who need the local currency to buy goods and services.

Bitcoin does not have the above 3 properties (and lacks even more).

Some might argue:

- but there are a lot of businesses that accept bitcoin.

Sure, they accept it, but as soon as they get it, they turn around, and sell it for dollars.

Thus, those businesses want to hold dollars, and not bitcoins.

Its a currency i can assure you

>-backed by central bank
Seashells were used for millenia as a currency.. I dont see any seashell central bank.. A currency is something with perceived value that is tradeable. You basically fell for the central bank meme

>-their price is determined by money flows, imports, and exports
Bitcoin does this. you can purchase things with it.. its just not widespread

>-there is a set of natural users for it: the local consumers, who need the local currency to buy goods and services.
Bitcoin is not good for buying a soda pop.. but it has its own ecosystem, and is treadeable world wide

>Sure, they accept it, but as soon as they get it, they turn around, and sell it for dollars.
The same reason people buy dollars to trade for oil in arab countries.. If its tradeable, its basically a currency


Call me a speculator if you want.. as for terrible currency, i doubt it.. It outperformed all the world currencies and I dont mind volatility at all.. I dont mind paying pajeet $4 in bitcoin today, that may be worth $40 in the future.. its just how it goes in this particular ecosystem

>as for terrible currency, i doubt it.. It outperformed all the world currencies and I dont mind volatility at all

Dude I literally explained why it's a terrible currency and you agreed.

It fails ALL the points a good currency requires. It doesn't check any boxes.

if you consider a currency that has lost 80% value in the last 60 years as "good" currency. Then our definition of what make a currency "good", must be subjective.

>Then our definition of what make a currency "good", must be subjective.

Volatility and ability to be spent

Bitcoin jumps up and down sporadically how can that possibly be good

>Bitcoin jumps up and down sporadically how can that possibly be good
for me personally, i think this is good. Because i can speculate on the volatility.

Just for comparison, the Mexican Peso, South African Rand, and BRazillian Real, experienced similar volatility to BTC in the last months. As far as im concerned, there is no difference between BTC and these currencies.

>ability to be spent

While some places and people accept it.. i cannot deny that BTC is not widely supported.. same as a Burmese coin, not everyplace accepts it. I dont see it as a big deal

>I dont see it as a big deal

YOU DON'T SEE A *CURRENCY*, NOT BEING WIDELY ACCEPTED AS A BIG DEAL?

Dude i think you're just trolling at this point. That's the whole fucking point of a currency, if it can't be spent it's not good. you fucking moron/troll holy shit.

I CAN'T BUY FOOD, I CAN'T BUY CLOTHES, I CAN'T PAY MY RENT, I CAN'T PAY MY CAR INSURANCE, I CAN'T PAY MY INCOME TAX WITH IT, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING!!!!!!!! How is that good???

>for me personally, i think this is good. Because i can speculate on the volatility.

THAT MAKES IT GOOD FOR SPECULATION/GAMBLING. BUT NOT AS A CURRENCY, WHAT DON'T YOU GET?!

Bitcoin was the pioneer, new better coins will come out that places do accept.... Maybe it will be bitcoin, its still relatively new to most people.

You can't just expect to tech to not progress.

expect the tech*

I just gave an example.. Not everyone accepts a Burmese or Vietnamese dong, but you cannot deny that these things arent a currency.. I think youre the one being a troll.

As long as people accept BTC, it will still be a currency.. Im not saying it will take over the USD. But if i can buy videogames or amazon items with it, and pay pajeet for services, then it is still a currency.

>doesnt realize bitcoin lost more than 50% of its value in 3 years
Topkek at this rate bitcoin is worthless in 10 years.

I'll say it again. Bitcoin is NOT a currency. It is a COMMODITY like gold, wheat, or oil. See article below:

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-17/bitcoin-is-officially-a-commodity-according-to-u-s-regulator

>according to a US regulator

Kek

you forgot to mention that it increased its value more than 1000% after it was created..

>US regulator
>unknown poorfag NEET on a lithuanian mothballing forum
Hmm.. which one would I listen to...

So did basically every non-penny stock in existance (and some penny stocks too). The good ones keep their value. The shit ones lose half of it a couple years later.

the government ofcourse.. they always look after your interests

No user! Let's listen to someone more knowledgable like you, not a government who has the most global and stable currency in use today! Wahahahahaha

indeed.. keep drinking that government kool aid, my good man

Wahahahaha. Dont be salty because your koolaide tastes like ass.

Pretty much this. Everyone is trying to peddle something nowadays. Bitcoin advertises themselves as anti-banking (we're not like those badguys that charge fees) and anti-establishment (we're not like those evil governments that tax you and devalue your money). The only problem with that is that with bitcoin you are replacing a semi-corrupt system with an equally corrupt one.

Bitcoin exchanges are full of theives, cheats, liars and ponzi schemers. They are also either really inept at security and/or are plundering people's accounts themselves. For a system that is supposed to be anti-intrusion they have also sold out your personal information and doxxed you to the government so they can continue to operate. Bitcoin gambling sites skirt legalities so they can prey on dumb people with impunity. Bitcoin mining hardware manufacturers are straight up con artists and swindlers. Bitcoin mining contract sites have turned into legalized ponzi schemes. Bitcoin dark markets are full of crooks, scammers, and degenerates (not to mention honeypots). Altcoins are literal pump and dumps and pyramid schemes.

There is literally nothing about bitcoin that is above board or should be remotely "invested" in. It is not for the common man, no matter how much these bagholders would like it to be. It will never reach mainstream use because nobody really uses this shit. Not to buy goods, not to buy services, not to buy anything legitimate. Anyone who buys bitcoin as a get rich scheme to hold long term will get exactly what they deserve. Bitcoin.

How's that for nocoiner cope?

yes, keep working hard for the government so you can support Tyrone's welfare needs. Happy goy

In a sense, yeah. Money and electricity are real life magic: ways for humans to exert more influence on their surroundings than conventionally feasible.

What affects btc volatility? Does anonymity disallow technical analysis on its price movements?

market demand affects it.. more people buy, more demand, limited supply and price goes up

Holy shit bro...

wait so are we bartering or not? In my opinion bartering is good. In conclusion we should barter. Thank you very much for your time.