Dueling Network General - /dng/

Dueling Network General #2219 - SUPER TWIRL Edition
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yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Odd-Eyes Fusion
yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Evilswarm Exciton Knight
twitter.com/AnonBabble

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Note: /dng/
P{ass: vidya

First for Gravekeepers

F R O G S

Third for unban everything.

I want to play a deck that either searches a ton or draws a ton of cards. I'll be playing D Heros when they come out in TCG land, but what do I play until then?

I for one welcome our frog overlords.

Structure deck R when?

Evil Hero Dark Gaia

After dark world structure deck R

anyone here think that super rejuvenation will be unbanned close to the new dragon SD?

ScreamsExternally.jpg

Monarchs searches like there's no tomorrow.

>i overextend and hate to get punished for it
i bet you want kaijus banned too

pls no

>tfw both the /dng/ thread and the /a/rc-v thread are by me
I have succeeded in life.

If they didn't unban Stratos for the HERO SD, what makes you think they'll unban super reju?

RaidRaptors.

Kaijus trade one card for one card. Exciton punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent deck. It's a braindead get out of jail free card.

>pendulum summoning was encouraging Extra deck degeneracy beyond what was manageable
>Make the Monarch SD to counter this
>Need to sell Dark Side of Dimensions to tournament players but don't want to make movie cards too strong
>Make the Felgrand SD to help Blue-eyes
>Give Gemini support
>don't make a Gemini SD but make an Ancient Gear SD
For what purpose?

they are doing SD:R in order dingus

volcanic queen trades one card for one card. black rose punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent deck. It's a braindead get out of jail free card.

i'm retarded I was hosting in EU this entire time. not sure how that happened. Anyway hosting again.

>machine-revolt came out before emperor of darkness

MST trades one card for one card. Raigeki punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent deck. It's a braindead get out of jail free card.

Volcanic Queen is worse than Kaijus because you can't normal summon the turn you use it, but either way neither are broken and both are perfectly fair, and are a horrible comparison to Exciton Knight.
Black rose suicides and is spell speed 1. It can also only use its effect once, and requires you to run tuners that have asymmetrical levels to your non tuners. Are you deliberately being retarded or do you really not see the issue with Exciton?

Exciton wasnt even that good when it came out and was overhyped to shit. Why are you crying over it now?

The only reason Konami banned it was because it would hurt Pendulums and let r4nk get over big untargetable beaters and floatshit easily.

Yes, MST is also another example of a card that is perfectly balanced, unlike Exciton.

Raigeki is limited to one, is unsearchable and so has to be drawn from the deck, only destroys monsters, can only be used once, and doesn't become a monster with decent attack after activation.

It's in order BACKWARDS you stupid mong

the only differences between volcanic queen and black rose, and kaijus and exciton, are time and powercreep.

>change of heart trades one card for one card. CED punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent deck. It's a braindead get out of jail free card.

>bottomless trap hole trades one card for one card. judgment dragon punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent (lightsworn) deck. it's a braindead get out of jail free card.

>Exciton wasnt even that good when it came out
Yeah, it's not like everyone was using it and it was expensive as shit because you'd have to be retarded not to run at least one.

Everyone ran it because it was situationally great, but even then that situation was rare and it meant you were in a losing position already and could not win the game that turn. And even if you summoned it, exciton would rarely if ever get his effect off because everyone expected it and ran a fuckton of effect negation. I played through HAT to CORE format and I can count the amount of times I actually needed and resolved exciton on my fingers. It was an extremely overhyped rank4 compared to actual, you-can't-live-without-it staples like castel or dweller.

The only thing broken about exciton was when nekroz could discard brio to get its effect off without being down on cards, which was stupid.

And all of the other things I listed. And again, I never once implied I thought there was anything wrong with Kaijus, dipshit.
How the fuck did you see me post "trades one card for one card" and interpret that as "this card is broken"?

>CED
Is fucking banned.

>bottomless trap hole trades one card for one card
This is wrong, but also that card is limited. You are horrible at this.

>judgment dragon punishes you for winning and can be made at any time
No it cannot be made at any time, it has to be grinded toward.
>in a half-decent (lightsworn) deck.
Kill yourself my man.

Why IS this so expensive? Is it just because it's secret? I don't get it.

>because it was situationally great
In any situation where you are losing in terms of field presence.

>and could not win the game that turn
So a card is only good if it can win you the game that turn? Fucking retard.

>because everyone expected it and ran a fuckton of effect negation
So clearly it wasn't worth the hype, right? In fact no monster effects are worth using because they can just get negated, everyone should just use normal beat.

DMG the Dragon Knight?

>Forgot image
ayy

Eternal D R A G O N S meta that Konami won't risk hitting because Kaz loves Blue-Eyes

If your opponent set up a full monster field and couldnt stop exciton, he was a retard.

If your opponent set up full backrow and couldnt stop exciton, he was a retard.

Even if you excitoned the best decks they would just float and laugh at you then push your shit in next turn because you just spent your last few resources on a rank 4 that will leave you wide open for Shaddoll Fusion and the like.

Not to mention it meant you lost everything on your field as well, and most decks until nekroz used heavy backrow or set up big boards extensively so you were bound to lose stuff too. If you had no board, you were pretty much OTK'd and shit on before you could even respond with Exciton.

Exciton only existed to give rank4 decks outs to rare situations and was used way WAY less than Castel which was useful almost all the time. You could get away with never owning an exciton that format and do well.

The only reason he's banned is because he dumpsters pendulums extremely well and Konami would never be able to sell them if it meant a rogue rank4 would destroy your entire deck concept.

are you fucking retarded?
>you list card that isnt broken, but punishes player for playing a card, followed by another card with a slightly harder to pull off condition, that punishes harder

>i list a card that isnt broken, but punishes player for playing a card, followed by another card with a slightly harder to pull off condition, that punishes harder

>person who i assume is you lists 2 cards that arent really related to eachother or the conversation

>i say the only difference between the 2 cards i listed is time and powercreep, then list 2 more examples of cards that were around at the same time, with similar objectives.

>point flies right above your head and you misinterpret (and by that i mean dont read) everything i said, then proceed to criticize the cards i chose for no reason.

please learn to read and follow conversations, here, let me summarize my point;
a card that is easier to pull off, and punishes less, is only better than a card that is harder to pull off and punishes harder, in the context of how hard the person the card is used against, overextends.
and the only difference between certain examples of this, is time and powercreep.

volcanic queen is similar to a kaiju, as it tributes an opponents monster, but was POWERCREEPED, as kaijus have no restrictions other than only being able to control 1 face-up one.
black rose is similar to exciton because it mass destroys the field, but its POWERCREEPED because it isnt a quick effect, and it destroys itself.

change of heat is a simple way of clearing one card off your opponents board, but over TIME, cards with very simple effects and no restrictions became overpowered and had to be toned down, or banned.
CED is a mass destroyer who dominated during a TIME with no easy effect negation, during a TIME where priority existed and during a TIME where having all your cards hit the grave was a bad thing.

there is already 1 gemini ancient gear
expect more ;^)

bottomless was good during a TIME where a decent banish was hard to come back from, but was POWERCREEPED by cards that cannot be destroyed, cards that get powerful effects when summoned and cards that straight up negate the summon happening in the first place.

judgment dragon was a pretty easy to summon mass destroyer who was around during a TIME of priority and when boss monsters werent easy to get over, then it was POWERCREEPED by floating, effect negation, summoning negation, and easier to summon boss monsters.

Dont forget most decks after DUEA could rarely make exciton.

Shaddolls rarely if ever made rank4's.
Qlis locked themselves out unless they ran storm or other shit.
Ritual Beasts couldn't rank 4 well.
BA couldn't.
Tellars were the only rank4 deck but they were slow and set their whole hand to board, they couldn't do it either.

Only until Nekroz came did Exciton become a huge issue.

Rank4 in general was weak for a long time, including exciton.

How good were Chaos Dragons in their prime?
I missed that format

>Secret rare from a recent set with no reprints before the new holo system
Gee I wonder why

congrats

But fucking nothing is using it outside of pet shit. Even as an old secret it shouldn't cost THIS much.

>If your opponent set up a full monster field and couldnt stop exciton, he was a retard.
>If your opponent set up full backrow and couldnt stop exciton, he was a retard.
Or didn't draw into Fiendish Chain/Breakthrough skill.

>then push your shit in next turn
It's a quick effect you retard.

>slightly harder to pull off condition, that punishes harder
That punishes significantly harder, twice.

>i list a card that isnt broken, but punishes player for playing a card, followed by another card with a slightly harder to pull off condition, that punishes harder
Black Rose is quite a bit harder to pull off and has a proportionately stronger effect because of it. It also leaves your field ACTUALLY open, as opposed to Exciton which leaves you with a monster that will force them to use removal before attacking or passing.

>>person who i assume is you lists 2 cards that arent really related to eachother or the conversation
Fuck are you talking about?

>i say the only difference between the 2 cards i listed is time and powercreep
Which again, is a dumb thing to say considering I never implied Kaiju were in any way unbalanced.

>then list 2 more examples of cards that were around at the same time, with similar objectives.
Which is totally irrelevant to the thing just mentioned and does not support your argument in any way.

>point flies right above your head and you misinterpret (and by that i mean dont read) everything i said
If you weren't trying to say you thought that I implied that Kaijus were unbalanced, then your bringing up other examples of cards that were similar to Kaijus in function and were also not unbalanced is completely pointless. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you were at least attempting to make a point, however misguided it might have been.

Continued because gosh you're dumb.

yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Odd-Eyes Fusion
10 topping Odd-Eyes/Performapal decklists ran it this month alone. 2 of those won their respective events.

Please look up the usage of a card before spouting nonsense.

Those cards were necessary that format even without exciton. Monster effects dominated PRIO to CORE.

>It's a quick effect you retard.
So what?
Shaddoll Fusion into Winda, thanks for the plus
Summon Unicore, fuck you
All the BA's float more, or just farfa it
Qlis hate Exciton but if they had a serious field built up and couldnt floodgate you out of the game they lost anyways, exciton or no.

Ritual Beasts and Tellars are the only decks it seriously hurt and they were all at the bottom of the totem pole at that point anyways.

And no deck could reliably make Exciton for it to be a serious threat beyond Tellars and rogue Qli builds, except for Nekroz. But that was more of an issue with Nekroz being oppressively broken.

Shit, nice to see something actually using it now then. Previously it was just used in garbage Magician decks. I apologize for the retardation.

is enough ban pantheism to kill monarchs or Erebus need to go too?

>a card that is easier to pull off, and punishes less, is only better than a card that is harder to pull off and punishes harder
This may have been a point you intended to make in your head, but none of your idiotic greentexts implied this in the slightest. This is also not correct in this situation, because exciton is disproportionately rewarding for the difficulty of execution.

>and the only difference between certain examples of this, is time and powercreep
Exciton is an example of too much power creeping on at once.

>volcanic queen is similar to a kaiju, as it tributes an opponents monster, but was POWERCREEPED
Okay, but that is completely irrelevant to Exciton Knight. Kaijus are better than Volcanic Queen and were made later, yes that's true. And?

>but its POWERCREEPED because it isnt a quick effect, and it destroys itself.
Yes, Exciton is better than Blackrose and came later. But it isn't just better, it is way, way too much better. Exciton is twice as fast, twice as powerful, only has half the cost, and is easier to summon to boot.

>change of heat is a simple way of clearing one card off your opponents board, but over TIME, cards with very simple effects and no restrictions became overpowered and had to be toned down, or banned.
Which is completely irrelevant to Exciton Knight.

>CED is a mass destroyer who dominated during a TIME with no easy effect negation, during a TIME where priority existed and during a TIME where having all your cards hit the grave was a bad thing.
And CED is banned. Are you now trying to argue for unbanning Exciton and CED?
This does not support your initial argument at all.

>Bottomless was good during a TIME
Bottomless is still good dingdong. You know it's limited right?

>judgment dragon was a pretty easy to summon mass destroyer
IF YOU RAN PURE LIGHTSWORNS

Pantheism can stay since they need that draw power or they lose to themselves
Stormforth and Domain are what need to go, it's what gives them power over the opponent.

And were unsearchable, meaning you had to draw into them for them to save you from Exciton.

>So what?
Literally read the rest of the post.

where, in every post ive made, have i said that kaijius are unbalanced or said you think kaijus are unbalanced?
stop bringing up the fucking kaijus, thats not the basis of the arguement you retard.

>That punishes significantly harder, twice.
have you read excitons restrictions?
what moron would see exciton on the field, have more hand/field advantage, and then willingly either leave exciton on the field until the opponents turn or go into the battle phase?

>Black Rose is quite a bit harder to pull off and has a proportionately stronger effect because of it. It also leaves your field ACTUALLY open, as opposed to Exciton which leaves you with a monster that will force them to use removal before attacking or passing.
you're not going to be making exciton very easily in blue-eyes or BA, and you wouldnt want to make it in pals or kozmo, as nuking your own scales, most of the time isnt a good thing, and not being able to do damage is bad for kozmos.
before you interpret that as me saying "black rose is easier to make", black rose is harder to deal with, and could possibly leave you with more plays, considering how easy it is to special summon in synchro decks.

>Fuck are you talking about?
some guy mentioned MST and raigeki, but it wasnt part of this reply chain.

>Which is totally irrelevant to the thing just mentioned and does not support your argument in any way.
its only "totally irrelevant" if you dont read what i said and look at my reasoning for saying it in the first place.

>a card that is easier to pull off, and punishes less, is only better than a card that is harder to pull off and punishes harder, in the context of how hard the person the card is used against, overextends.
please quote the whole comment before trying to debate it.

continued.

if anything needs to get hit in monarchs, it's Ehther, because it's the main play enabler

Pantheism is a bigger problem than Domain. Powerful plays that are inconsistent are not a huge problem in comparison.
The biggest problem with Pantheism is that it can search itself, so in that regard putting it to one would be fine with me.

Stormforth and Domain. Hit those and they become a budget pet deck without murdering them.

>And were unsearchable, meaning you had to draw into them for them to save you from Exciton.
Being unsearchable meant people just ran them in 3's because you needed them for more than one in a blue moon shit like Exciton.

Not to mention everyone also ran
>Solemn
>bottomless to kill the materials
>vanitys at 3
in most decks, not to mention qlis ran skill drain at 3
Exciton didn't just show up all the time and fuck your entire board up. And again, making exciton was way harder that meta than drawing effect negation.

but erebus send pantheism and first monarchs to the grave, ether too but he is just the searcher for Erebus. Erebus is the guy who doesnt target, can rip one card of your hand and can get back from the graveyard, discarding one card.

how in tzolkin-monarchs decks right?

What happened to the ygopro checkmate server?
Does anyone want to play on ygopro? I just wanted to practice zefra so i can try and make my own deck. I used to like zefra when they first came out but i read online the way i used to play is all wrong so I'm trying to learn how to properly play them.

I'm hosting with note vg and pass vidya on the USA server.

>/dng/ got so retarded again they're seriously comparing unsearchable shit with a rank 4

>Exciton is an example of too much power creeping on at once.
being able to summon up to 5 monsters, irrelevant to one specific archetype, is too much power creeping at once, but pendulums came out and thats fine.
being able to take any 2 monsters and slap them together to bring out a powerful boss monster is too much powercreeping at once, but synchros came out, and thats fine.

>Yes, Exciton is better than Blackrose and came later. But it isn't just better, it is way, way too much better.
restricted condition that might (MIGHT) be able to be used twice VS unrestricted condition used once.
>Kaijus are better than Volcanic Queen and were made later, yes that's true. And?
and exciton is "better" than black rose and was made later. its called a comparison.

>Yes, Exciton is better than Blackrose and came later. But it isn't just better, it is way, way too much better. Exciton is twice as fast, twice as powerful, only has half the cost, and is easier to summon to boot.
i see you've agreed with me. and maybe you'll agree with me that a card with a much harder summoning condition, but a similar effect, is slightly worse than a card with an easier summoning condition, like say, judgment dragon VS black rose.

>Which is completely irrelevant to Exciton Knight.
im comparing "blue is to colour, as apple is to food".
you're comparing "blue is to food, i dont comprehend the rest"

>This does not support your initial argument at all.
except my point was that 2 cards that exist(ed) during the same time, one with a singular destruction/removal and the other with a mass removal, are no better than eachother if the opponent they're used against is not overextending.
>And CED is banned. Are you now trying to argue for unbanning Exciton and CED?
exciton, sure.
CED? im going to have to ask you to look through my posts relating to CED and point out where it says that i think CED should be unbanned. stop projecting.

Anyone else having trouble ordering shit on tcgplayer?

/dng/ got so retarded they're seriously saying that Black Rose is the same as Exciton even though you have to use tuners for Black Rose

/dng/ got so retarded they're seriously saying that exciton is the same as black rose even though you have to use the same levels for exciton

please reply to this saying your 2 monsters to summon monster is better than my 2 monsters to summon monster.

except you know, most archetypes that can put 2 monsters of the most used level are better than whatever can put together 3 + 4

specially considering that most archetypes using tuners are shit

But hey, keep spouting your retardation

>where, in every post ive made, have i said that kaijius are unbalanced or said you think kaijus are unbalanced?
>i bet you want kaijus banned too
Hurr

>what moron would see exciton on the field, have more hand/field advantage, and then willingly either leave exciton on the field until the opponents turn or go into the battle phase?
Someone that didn't have an out in hand or on the field at the time of summoning, then didn't topdeck into an out.

>these particular meta decks can't make it easily, so it's balanced
No.

>black rose is harder to deal with
In no way, shape, or form is Blackrose harder to deal with.

>considering how easy it is to special summon in synchro decks.
Which are generally shit.

>some guy mentioned MST and raigeki, but it wasnt part of this reply chain.
You would have to be retarded to think that was me.

>its only "totally irrelevant" if you dont read what i said and look at my reasoning for saying it in the first place
No it is straight irrelevant. It has no impact on how broken Exciton is or is not.

>please quote the whole comment before trying to debate it.
That changes nothing. Exciton is disproportionately powerful for the ease of execution. That's it. Anything being said that does not support or contradict this claim is irrelevant to this discussion.

>Being unsearchable meant people just ran them in 3's because you needed them for more than one in a blue moon shit like Exciton
It meant that you would plausibly not have it when you need it.

>And again, making exciton was way harder that meta than drawing effect negation.
Yes, in the sense that winning the lottery is easier than posting on Veeky Forums, because you only have to buy a lottery ticket and then get lucky. Decks that can shit out R4s have numerous ways to do so, you can only run 3 of a given effect negation card. Being able to access something at any time is always preferable to having to draw into it.

>actually trying to argue that any 2 monsters of the same Level is harder to get out than 1 TUNER *and* 1 or more non-Tuners
Holy fucking shit did someone drop a Monarch deck on your head as a child

Has /dng/ got so fucking scrubby they need to realize that xyz is a much more powerful mechanic than synchro thanks to the fact that the most powerful archetypes don't use tuners?

Has /dng/ got so fucking bad that they're somehow saying that Black Rose is the same as Exciton even though synchro is a mechanic powercreeped by xyz?

thank (you)

Even if exciton came back RIGHT now, noone would use it anyways. It's already been powercreeped and it's in the same dumpster with Black rose.

Exciton saw less use in his format than Blackrose in synchro era.

It's FACTUALLY, VERITABLY worse.

I thought pre-DUEA helped retards stablish that r4 was supremely strong.

But then you have retards like that are saying "L-LOL, R4 WASN'T THE STRONGEST IN YGO AT A TIME BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT THE STRONGEST!!!11!!"

When HAT format and Fire Fists made people so fucking salty they were crying assasination against Number 101, and we had fucking entire threads crying ban against Castel

then you have retards like this that argue that a field wipe easily made wouldn't be used. Are you fucking stupid?

>Even if exciton came back RIGHT now, noone would use it anyways.

>Le "r4 isn't strong right now so that means it was never strong XD" meme

Has /dng/ seriously got this fucking retarded

>easily made
name a meta deck that easily made it before nekroz was able to make rank 4s for free.

Rank 4 is garbo, your eternal ass destruction over exciton doesn't mean it was actually broken.

Huh? Lots of powerful archetypes use tuners. Tuners also almost always summon themselves too or are summoned by other cards in the archetype, so its very easy to get them and usually to search them too. Also you can turn a synchro into another synchro which is good for combos. XYZ's material mechanics, inability to send pendulums to extra deck or get certain send to grave effects is a pretty big bummer. I'd even argue the lack of levels on XYZ is a negative. To me XYZ only seemed more powerful because they have cards with very strong effects. I don't even know if I'd play any deck that didnt use synchros if they unbanned key synchro cards like brio.

yall niggas mad af

Stacking two level 4s to solve everything is stupid regardless of Pends.

Besides the TCG hates pends based on how fast PePe got nuked.

Exciton would be a pretty big deal for the various demise decks, and it would be pretty strong against any pendulum deck too.

what deck would fucking make it? Monarch? PK? Kozmo? Blue-Eyes? Maybe extremely rarely pepe.

Just fuck off Marzepan

Hosting note vg pass vidya ygopro USA.

I won't mind if you play black rose dragon.

stop spouting nonsense yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Evilswarm Exciton Knight

tell me a current TCG meta deck that uses tuners

Tzolkin monarchs, draco pals, any odd-eyes based deck.

>being able to summon up to 5 monsters, irrelevant to one specific archetype, is too much power creeping at once, but pendulums came out and thats fine.
Listen, you stupid nigger: how the fuck does this relate to Exciton? I could explain to you why pendulums in general are balanced, or why some pendulums aren't balanced, but that is a completely different fucking topic. We are not talking about game balance broadly, we are talking about one God damn card being balanced or unbalanced.

>any 2
You mean one tuner and one non tuner monster with levels totalling up to the level of the monster you want to summon.

>restricted condition that might (MIGHT) be able to be used twice VS unrestricted condition used once.
restricted condition that might (MIGHT) be able to be used twice VS unrestricted condition MIGHT be able to be used once, is half as fast, is harder to get out, and has twice the cost to resolve.

>its called a comparison
A retarded one that has no relevance in discussing whether or not Exciton is broken.

You know what, fuck the rest of your post, I am nowhere near a good enough teacher to be able to make you stop being a mongoloid fucking moron, so take what I've written so far and just kill yourself.

Extra Deck Monarchs use Tuners ;3

Who's talking about current decks? I said powerful archetypes. The TCG banlist has ripped apart all the best tuner users so unless the banlist went away we cant use them.

Wow, everyone ran exciton in a format where everyone splashed rank 4's into everything for the rare 1/1000th chance of making certain ones.

Fucking Qli's ran rank 4's, guess theyre a rank 4 deck now.

>getting this mad over a single (ONE) card
I can see why Excited Bug got banned

>No deck could easily make Exciton XD

Keep in mind that Nekroz were released in February 2015

Tzolkin Monarchs "synchro" is only another XYZ as you're fucking sending 2 monsters of the same level

dracopals only use it to get out ignister and nothing more

I'm mad at the sheer stupidity of the guy trying to say Exciton is the same as Blackrose.

>no true scotsman

the most powerful deck ever only ran a tuner to get out Naturia Beast :3, full xyz

>people ran exciton in HAT format
No shit. Notice how it's usage dwindled after the hype died off until nekroz came and utilized it actually well.

>le I backpedal and accept that decks before Nekroz were able to use Exciton

you fucking said that no deck could make Exciton Knight as good as Nekroz could, stick to your fucking word retard

So with this, saga of blue-eyes and felgrand structure deck, will I be able to make a decent dragon deck?

He's literally Demise, King of Armageddon but better

no, it's a retarded one

I'm being as retarded as you

You come here and try to say "w-well, no powerful deck would ever use Exciton knight" when Nekroz and EmEm, THE TOP OF THE FUCKING BULLSHIT IN YGO both used it

But hey, keep being retarded