Chinese History

>Why Mao is so demonized when he basically developped China,
that's not Deng Xiaoping

>but I think a major reason why many outsiders refuse to accept post-Yuan rule over Tibet is because
Most of the "west" has no clue about the history of Tibet-China relations. They're pro Tibetan independence because of the diaspora and resulting vocal immigrants, primarily in the US where most of them went. Also if they did know it wouldn't be because it was Genghis or his descendants, but simply because it was a foreign power that forcefully unified them.

It gets a bit more complicated then that. Tibetans are considered one of the Five Races of China, a concept that was formulated during the beginnings of the Republican era, so regardless of who won supremacy in the mainland Tibet would have been absorbed into China.

KMT was too busy trying to defend China from Imperial Japan.

Did china discover america before spaniards?

why is cao cao so fucking based

>Tibet was seen as an independent nation
Nope it wasnt. Hell it wasn't even a "nation:" it was a fractured collection of Monastic theocracies that frequently fought each other.

Anyway, Tibet's (non-Yuan) inclusion to China was in the 1700s. Simply read the following
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_expedition_to_Tibet_(1720)
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Nepalese_War

tl;dr: Tibet was a mess thanks to religious shitfighting. Invited the Qingz n shiet over to help them get the fucking Dzungars out of Tibet. China says they will in exchange of administering Tibet as a Protectorate, Tibbs agree because they're a mess. Gurkhas invade Tibet in a bid for empire. Chinks bail Tibetans again and finally placed the whole thing under their rule.

Xia was real in the sense it was based on something actually there (probably Erlitou).

Corruption, which led to class struggle. Also the KMT really sucked at fighting the Japanese despite having superior American weapons. Meanwhile the PRC focused on peasants and could hold up a substantial resistance against the Japanese using guerilla warfare.

>Muh 80 billion
World leaders can't control weather dumbass.

He is demonized in the west because he was a Communist leader.

Not saying he was some sort of perfect leader - but literally the only thing you hear is how he was an evil genocidal monster, same with Stalin.

The cultural revolution was a purge of the upper classes, and as such entirely justified, and one of the most progressive movements ever enacted by a major world leader.

Imma try my best to come up with questions.

Zhou has always seen as the genesis of chinese-ness. Do you have any insight on chinese elements developed before Zhou?

How do I make sense of the 三皇五帝 and the tribal warfare of 蚩尤軒轅 and 炎帝(who is him anyway?) ? Although the chronology is sketchy as fuck, there must have been some chink historian's version of happenings in that era.

There were indication of cultural/language/economic disparity between states of the Warring states.
How do we trace the distinct cultures of the states? "Qi's true culture" or "Jing's legacy" or "Chu's poetry"?

There are actually alot question to be asked, since there are many skip thru periods in curriculum.
I've always waiting for Chinese History AMA.

>Zhou has always seen as the genesis of chinese-ness. Do you have any insight on chinese elements developed before Zhou?
Zhou feudal order established a elite culture/identity(Zhuxia,Hua) though pre dynastic Zhou included non Sinitic elements.(The royal Ji/Jiang surname is shared with Rong tribes,Heaven worship,wolf motif)

Shang was the earliest known Sinitic polity,pre dynastic Zhou and Fen river polities represent other local confederations.

>How do I make sense of the 三皇五帝 and the tribal warfare of 蚩尤軒轅 and 炎帝(who is him anyway?)
Mythology,some of which dates to the late Warring States.

>There were indication of cultural/language/economic disparity between states of the Warring states.
Archaeology.

Given the lack of textual sources no one knows the distribution or what pre Sinitic was spoken. At best you have glosses from historical texts or personal names.

Given how Sinicization sweep over the land
How can 苗 keep it self as a relic from the time before 夏?

How do Wang Mang get soo high up? What is he trying to achieve anyway?

How did Guang Wu managed to reconsolidate Han's empire? Is the dynasty from now on effectively distinct from the previous Han?

Decadence is always main attack point of the era, 晉(司馬). Any example, or how decadent are they? Given that they held on for 1.5 century, what are their visible legacy and characteristic? Why the Jin get ignored all the time while the Yuan (a blink) get magnified?

The downfall of Jin triggered mass southward migration, how does this impact the "racial(different kind of Han)" demographic of the south?

Why the South is still divided along linguistic/cultural crevice until pretty recently, while the North get uniformed? (Please no plain vs hilly forest stuff, elaborate more on inter Han races interactions i.e. Yue, Wu, Hakka, Min etc)

Scholarship on the whole Six Dynasties era is still in its infancy. Volume 2 of the Cambridge Series for example is reportedly no where near ready for publication despite the series having started way back in the 50s.

>cultural revolution
>entirely justified

they sure as hell can mitigate its effects though

>How can 苗 keep it self as a relic from the time before 夏?
btw not the OP

I seriously hope you're not conflating modern Miao with ancient/mythological San Miao. Ancient Chinese reused ethnonyms for peripheral polities.

Erlitou is clearly ancestral to what would be known as "Chinese" civilization but I wouldn't go as far as to call it a dynasty.

>The downfall of Jin triggered mass southward migration, how does this impact the "racial(different kind of Han)" demographic of the south?
First off there's a lack of ancient autosomal dna so my knowledge is mainly based on uniparental markers and physical anthropology.

Going by mtdna Erlitou,Early Shang(Yanshi) and Late Shang(Yinxu) are ancestral to northern Han.

Historical Han Chinese assimilated two other "northern" populations the ancient northwestern Chinese (Shaanxi/Gansu) and ancient northern Chinese(Hebei/Inner Mongolia/Liaoxi)

Most of the Jin elite fled to the lower/middle Yangtze(think Jiangnan/Jianghan region) their descendants are autosomally northern Chinese with a slight southern shift.

Southern Chinese south of that region are descended from secondary or tertiary migrations from later dynasties(Tang,Song) with substantial native admixture(Hmong Mien/Tai Kadai)

ttyl male mediated migration and Sinicized local elites made them Han.

>Why the South is still divided along linguistic/cultural crevice until pretty recently, while the North get uniformed?
Endogamy and dearth of historical migrations is my guess.

I don't have the knowledge to answer your other questions.

>demonized in the west
>Just because he's Hitler, doesn't mean he's Hitler!

If you are in fact a mass murdering monster, it is appropriate you are referred to as such. Next, please get bothered that nobody ever talks about Hitler's ability to put people to work.

This

Bait

Even the CCP itself, which looks at the guy as the founder, disagrees with you.

Wu, Wei, or Shu?

What the fuck happened in 1966?

>based

He was a dishonourable dog.

Why do chinks love dog meat so much ?

>muh Tibet is an indisputable territory of China

Mods should just ban all ips from China and delete Commie China propaganda threads.

Who was the third emperor of the Sui Dynasty?

Tibetan history is pretty interesting, but there's like next to nothing on the web, especially MAPS

Was Zhuangzi actually a butterfly?

>Chinese
>History

>they are shitting in streets today thus must have had even worse history
>history is a linear progression

When will people who are motivated by 21th century politics leave my fucking history board?

Where was this stated or claimed you autist?

Because "Tibet" was a creation of the 18th century Qing Empire.

(You)

Maybe because Deng Xiaoping took control of China after Mao, and proceed to blame him for everything ? The CCP is also clearly not maoist anymore.

no, its a corrupt and authoritarian government thats fighting itself while simultaneously oppressing the people it governs. and mao gave us this communist china.

of all the shitty things of china, their history isn't one of them.

this

Can anyone recommend a decent introduction to Chinese history? I've always been fascinated with the region but there's so much going on there I don't know where to start. I'm less interested in the last hundred years or so and more in classical/imperial China.
Preferably not too heavy, I mostly read in my lunchbreaks.

>Bлaдивocтoк(Vladivostok) used to belong to China
>Lake Baikal used to belong to China
>Okinawa used to belong to China
>North of Amur River used to belong to China

But you don't see CCP going on about "reclaiming" those places.

Okinawa never belonged to China. The Ryukyu Kingdom, and the three kingdoms before it, It was an independent state before Nips invaded the place.

Like anyone in the region, it was in a tributary relationship with the Chinks.

What periods would you divide Chinese history into?

Formal scholarship divides Chink history into Ancient (Prehistoric-Warring States), Imperial (Qin-Qing), and Modern (Republic to PRC/ROC)

The only thing i like about chinks is their food. Minus that, they are just human roachs to me.

>Why the South is still divided along linguistic/cultural crevice until pretty recently, while the North get uniformed? (Please no plain vs hilly forest stuff, elaborate more on inter Han races interactions i.e. Yue, Wu, Hakka, Min etc)

I think I can partially answer this, although I'm no expert.

From what I understand, the North became fairly uniform due to the unifying efforts of the Han dynasty. The Qin dynasty attempted it but was still marked by Warring states regionalism, which was reflected in the way in which Xianyang was laid out in terms of ancestor worship and the Qin's policy of inducing captured families of former enemies to reside in the capital.

Basically, Qin's endeavor was a truncated one, and wasn't able to successfully manufacture an imperial identity within its short reign. The early Han dynasty was also marked by the regionalism of its subordinate kings, and they continued to prove a thorn in the imperial side for some two centuries until which the imperial court successfully created a marked imperial culture and center distinct from regional identifiers. The potency of the imperial court was often judged by its magnetism in attracting outlying states to render it tribute, and that's directly correlated with the unifying efforts of the early dynasties.

As the North is the cradle of imperial civilization, the variegate identities which naturally would have emerged have been eroded by centuries of imperial consolidation.

Did Chairman Mao ever ROFLMAO