How do we evolve beyond nation states?

Because it's an obstacle to a globalized western world that we should pursue.

For example, I live in a country on the periphery of Europe, I hold no real national pride or illusions that this is a great place to be. The entirety of media, academic literature and news that I experience comes from Anglo countries. Basically, I'd want to live in Britain or America but I'm constrained by my location. The Euro free zone is the best way I could rectify this, but it's only the beginning. I want open borders and federalized Europe. Only peasants who want to should be forced live in countries that aren't relevant.

>We keep humiliating the native populations of MENA by increasing intervention in MENA, then blame the next Jihadist attack as being the result of MENA
Fix'd for you.

>french are apathetic
>therefore they deserve to die
t. bloodthirsty smelly arab

>France helped overthrow the dictator of the country I fled from, so mass shooting by Jihadists in the streets of French cities are justified
Mehmet, Saudi Arabia and Iran do much more to destabilize MENA than the "western crusaders" and Israel.
>inb4 Saudi Arabia is an American puppet because Anerica buys oil from them

Because modern nations are glorified trade unions and westerners are afraid that immigration will lower their fancy salaries.

>all muslims should be blamed for an immigration crisis and rise of Wahhabi groups that was orchestrated by western governments and was allowed to happen as a result of western ignorance
t. /pol/tard

No, they're afraid of letting in barbarians

>allowed to happen as a result of western ignorance
>America isn't the world's policeman you imperialist dogs!
>but how dare you not intervene please help uncle sam
Will you sandnigs ever be happy?

Abolish the welfare state.

>France helped overthrow the dictator of the country
And then Al-Qaeda and ISIS showed up days later.

>I fled from
If westerners would mind their own business, you would have almost no foreigners whatsoever

>mass shootings in the streets of French cities are justified
They're not, but French people need to analyze the situation and think about how Libya and Syria were stable countries before intervention and ISIS didn't exist until NATO planes started bombing Libya and Syria.

While the West funds "moderate rebels" who behead innocents and eat hearts (literally), Iran has sent soldiers on the front lines against ISIS. And while the West calls for war against Assad for his actions against Wahhabi terrorists, the Saudi Monarchy, which has executed thousands for menial acts (including one of their own princesses), is head of the UN Human Rights Council. Yeah, certainly no western bias here.

Why in Mediaterranian countries the rise of nationalism is negligible?

Sure thing, mate.

And what else would you call super religious, stuck in the past poles?

>reading comprehension

I was saying that Westerners could have protested their governments' actions. But they didn't, and many actually went along with the "Gaddafi/Assad are ebil dictators we have to save the chillun!". Now, ISIS and other Wahhabi groups have taken root in Libya and Syria, there is an immigration crisis, and NATO planes are targeting civilian centers in Syria.

theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/20/us-airstrike-allegedly-kills-56-civilians-in-northern-syria

Destroy all native cultures and identities until the entire world is full of nothing but brown skinned people that speak American English.

Pakis seem much worse, yet nobody in the UK complains abotu them as they don't endanger his job.

Mediterranean peoples tend to be happier and healthier.

This.

If massive flows of refugees from Syria disturbs you, then for fucks sake tell your government to stop funding Islamic rebels that attempt to topple the secular dictator.

That's only because it's illegal whereas shitting on other whites is encouraged

>Syria
Nice meme

>Because it's an obstacle to a globalized western world that we should pursue.
Why should we pursue a globalized western world?
>I hold no real national pride
Nationalism=/=pride in a nations history
>The entirety of media, academic literature and news that I experience comes from Anglo countries.
Which in no way goes against nationalism.
> I'd want to live in Britain or America but I'm constrained by my location. The Euro free zone is the best way I could rectify this, but it's only the beginning. I want open borders and federalized Europe.
So you want open borders because it benefits you. Then you should have no problems realizing the fact that other Europeans do not want open borders because it doesn't benefit them.

Every time an eastern yuro emigrates to the west, the idea of an unified Europe becomes more and more distant because of the economic harm emigration causes to the homecountry.

>Because it's an obstacle to a globalized Western world that we should pursue
You mean "I" want to pursue

Because the people were lied to by their own governments and their own media.

Yet apparently the blame is laid on the deceived instead on the deceiver

>economic harm emigration causes to the homecountry.
Which nation do you come from?

>We keep humiliating the native populations of MENA by increasing intervention in MENA, then blame the next Jihadist attack as being the result of MENA

Hey bud I made an informative picture for you, you should be able to figure out the meaning.
In case you don't: Most European countries wan't nothing to do with MENA.

How does that matter?

>That's only because it's illegal whereas shitting on other whites is encouraged

Most bullshit excuse I ever heard.

You don't

The Nation is the perfect entity

From Considérations sur la France (1797):

"I will simply point out the error of principle that has provided the foundation of this constitution and that has led the French astray since the first moment of their revolution.

The constitution of 1795, like its predecessors, has been drawn up for Man. Now, there is no such thing in the world as Man. In the course of my life, I have seen Frenchmen, Italians, Russians, etc.; I am even aware, thanks to Montesquieu, that one can be a Persian. But, as for Man, I declare that I have never met him in my life. If he exists, I certainly have no knowledge of him.

....This constitution is capable of being applied to all human communities from China to Geneva. But a constitution which is made for all nations is made for none: it is a pure abstraction, a school exercise whose purpose is to exercise the mind in accordance with a hypothetical ideal, and which ought to be addressed to Man, in the imaginary places which he inhabits....

What is a constitution? Is it not the solution to the following problem: to find the laws that are fitting for a particular nation, given its population, its customs, its religion, its geographical situation, its political relations, its wealth, and its good and bad qualities?

Now, this problem is not addressed at all by the Constitution of 1795, which is concerned only with Man."

...

To strengthen and respect your country and countrymen

>(((Freedom)))

You should also have no problems realizing that the reason you can even question living in the western world, is because you have a relatively stable existence and everyday use of internet and modern technology.

>why should we put value judgments on any aspect of human existence
It should go without saying that this is very tiring and pseudo-intellectual. Yes, obviously my opinions are geared to benefit me and people in a similar situation as me. This is how beliefs about anything work.

We don't.

It's important to make sure everyone can communicate with one another and shares a few essential core values. This involves keeping some people out.

consider suicide

We already have: USA, China, India, Russia. In fact, most of the world is practically US satellite states at this point, ever since they were conquered through American culture. Whatever they maintain to the contrary.

Basically, Europe chose to reject a Great Man like Napoleon and has faced total decline since. The [actual] European Project started with the Ancient Greeks, and has been moving north westward ever since. The USA is the current manifestation and point of interest. The OP issue is merely looking at the plebeian volk leftovers are up to. And as was already said, they've been declining ever since Napoleon.

Why don't you contribute to making your own country great rather than vying to abandon it in favor of leeching off the accomplishments of foreigners who were trying to make THEIR country great?

I'm curious to know which nation has had its economy harmed by EU immigration.

Okay /leftypol/, you go rant about how evil whitey is elsewhere

>Only peasants who want to should be forced live in countries that aren't relevant.

Don't be selfish! Without poor people toiling for pittance in the periphery, the center could never achieve its heights. Learn humility and accept your destiny! Every Spartan, needs a dozen helots at allow his existence.

or....... France could've just not accepted immigrants and thus they wouldn't have the problem of sand niggers slicing the throats of Saints and raping women

Mediterranean people are pretty laidback, they don't have many potential threats either in their immigrants compared to what's going up there.

Or just tell your government to stop accepting refugees

Much easier more effective solution

>Most European countries wan't nothing to do with MENA.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Military_involvement
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#France
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Britain

>ever since they were conquered through American culture
This is the biggest meme that Americans for some reason believe. American culture has only "conquered" like Canada and even still they are distinct.

Also your examples are historically illiterate:
>USA
One of the best examples of civic nationalism
>China
Is in the middle of a massive project to homogenize the country by moving Han to minority areas.
>India
India also has been trying to build a unified Indian national identity, and it has already destroyed many regional cultures.
>Russia
Lol, Russia actively stamps out and tries to destroy minority cultures. Basically all Finnic minorities such as vepsläižed, inkeroine, līvlizt and vad'd'alaizõd are extinct. Even groups that were larger and occupied and distinct geographical area like the Karelians are dying out. All because of focused russofication.

I meant the homecountry not the receiving country.

Basically all of the Baltics, Poland other ex-iron curtain suffer from their youth leaving for Western Europe and Northern Europe.

Well, plenty of rightists in the UK and the like rant about how evil white Poles are.

Being affiliated in the situation due to NATO and basically doing nothing does not mean you are involved or care about MENA. The only country that really has any strategical interest in MENA and is about to elect a president who admitted wanting to destabilize MENA for domestic interests, is the United States.

Stop trying to excuse extremism.

>Because the people were lied to by their own governments and their own media.

10 minutes on the internet would enlighten one over the true happenings in Syria and Libya. Simply looking at the recent history of MENA would tell one "hmm, maybe intervention is a terrible idea". But no, thinking is hard and us Westerners shouldn't be expected to do any kind of basic research on serious international matters.

Ignorance needs to stop being excused.

Because a lot of them have more important shit to do than to look up why sandnigs are killing each other.

Sorry to tell you this, Abdul, but you and your people don't really matter

>"I shouldn't be expected to do anything to influence serious international matters that affect me or the lives of others."

Get off your computer fatass and start marching in the streets if you're so worried.

>Basically all of the Baltics, Poland other ex-iron curtain suffer from their youth leaving for Western Europe and Northern Europe.

That's not universal to all the countries in the east.

Lest just say that some slavic cultures are superior to others.

>Being affiliated in the situation due to NATO
They are free to leave NATO

>Stop trying to excuse extremism.
Hey man, your countries bombed civilian centers in other countries just because they didn't agree with the leaders of those countries.

>Because a lot of them have more important shit to do
Yeah, posting on facebook and shitposting on /mlp/ is so much more important than international happenings.

>"muh sandnigs"
Go back to /pol

The British Empire is the main reason you have an American culture to conquer anything with.

>mfw nationalists are trying to support each other so they can have a world where they hate on each other and fuck each other up
>mfw I have no face for this

I mean, I get the whole pride in your people and heritage thing. But that's not a fucking political platform, especially if you support the guy next to you doing that while ignoring that lots of French or German nationalism was historically based off of hating on your neighbor.

>and it has already destroyed many regional cultures.
care to post proofs?

So basically, your country is shit, but trying to fix it is hard, so you'd rather jump ship to somewhere where the heavy lifting has already been done.

Why on earth would any country that has built itself up to a respectable position want you? The second they face any adversity, you're going to head to greener pastures. You'll just leech of success without ever trying to contribute to it.

The correct response to living in a shitty country is to try to make it better. If country doesn't merit pride, work to improve it, and take pride in your own actions. If enough people start to think that way, you can start to take pride in your community.

>Yeah, posting on facebook and shitposting on /mlp/ is so much more important than international happenings.
There is always something happening in the world. If we worried about them all we'd become quite cerebral. Most people have more important issues than some raghead killing another.
>Go back to /pol
Awww, did I offend babby's feewings? Welcome to Veeky Forums

>Why on earth would any country that has built itself up to a respectable position want you? The second they face any adversity, you're going to head to greener pastures. You'll just leech of success without ever trying to contribute to it.
yeah, why would countries with declining populations want skilled labor?

Why not both, you stupid assholes?

Because I don't relate in any way to the concerns of my nation, and all my sources of learning and serious contemplation of world issues have been been English since I was like, 12.
I wonder if people have written about dissonance experienced by individuals who partake in internet anglo culture to such an extent that their mother language becomes almost secondary in usage. I think it's zn interesting topic.

>work to imprive my country
>die poor and tired
>my grandchildren invite shitskins to fuck it up

Yeah, nah! But I am not the same user, I plan on moving to even poorer country and using my financial advantage to exploit the local talent dry and live like a king (with harem and shit).

The whole movement for Indian nationalism is about unifying the continent under one identity "Indian". A person like Gandhi embodies this perfectly, he is an Indian national hero despite the fact that India has always had very diverse regions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationalism

>They are free to leave NATO
Why?
>Hey man, your countries bombed civilian centers
No, "my countries" did not. As I said, only a small fraction of Western nations did any active combat operations. And terrorist strikes have been attempted in countries that didn't participate in any way in these conflicts. And even then the refugee crisis and the majority of muslim terrorist strikes in Europe have their roots in the Iraq conflict and the United States' mishandling of post-war Iraq, not the Libyan conflict.

>Skilled labor
Top meme.

More seriously, inviting in a foreign labor force that is willing to work for less than the natives means that young locals are put in a more precarious financial situation. In the West, if you don't have stable income, you tend not to have children. This creates a positive feedback loop of low population

>They are free to leave NATO
>leave NATO
>Russia pushes my shit in
>the rest of NATO does nothing to send a message
Nice going there, Ahmed

I agree, and I'm baffled that supporting the European project has suddenly become the unfashionable thing to do. Because of what, immigrants? Fuck nationalist parties, I haven't seen anything good out of them. I want my gradual debalkanization back, please.

>indian government preaches unity in diversity and goes to the extent of having a shit load of languages have the same status as hindi.
>states have their own languages, and most of lower tiers of education is vernacular.
>"Let me show user this wikipedia article which doesn't reflect post independent india at all."
Nice source you have there bud. Look up the status of scheduled languages in india and the articles in the indian constitution that guarantee indian states to have a wide amount of regional autonomy.

Gandhi is simply the most popular of them all. Nehru, Subhas Chandra Bose and Vallabhai Patel are also on par with gandhi in terms of popularity with the general populace.

Also, you haven't provided any proof of the indian government extinguishing different cultures like the chinese have.
>inb4 modi is going to gas all the muslims.
no he isn't.

So you would rather hire people based on their nationality instead of their aptitude in their line of work. And then wonder how the institutions remain uncompetitive.

>>mfw nationalists are trying to support each other so they can have a world where they hate on each other and fuck each other up

Hating other nations has nothing to do with nationalism. In fact, in a world where all embrace nationalism we would probably have less conflict. But this is extremely idealistic.

>I mean, I get the whole pride in your people and heritage thing.

Again, you do not fucking know what nationalism means. Stop talking about it. Feeling pride towards your heritage and your ancestors is in no way required for nationalism.

>French nationalism
French nationalism is basically nonexistent. It only exists if you think that "hurr durr liking historical figures = you're a nationalist." The French are much more civic nationalists.
>German nationalism
The Nazis? The Nazis weren't nationalists, they were imperialists. Imperialism and nationalism are the exact opposites. Nazis claimed to practice ethnic-nationalism which is retarded but they didn't even do that. The Nazis wanted a continent spanning Super State. Continent spanning super states and nationalism don't fit together.

The introduction of an extraterrestrial threat.

Of course they are going to give regional autonomy and official statuses to minority languages, otherwise they'd fall apart.

But the fact still remains that an Indian identity exists now, where it didn't exist previously. What happened in Italy is happening and will happen in India.

Also I didn't use that wikipedia link as a source for anything.

Well, for one, they rarely are more skilled, and two, yeah, I'd prioritize my country's youth over foreign scum

>Hating other nations has nothing to do with nationalism. In fact, in a world where all embrace nationalism we would probably have less conflict. But this is extremely idealistic.
the last time europeans embraced nationalism wholesale they started the first and second world war.

The BE was global, but it encompassed no other European states.

Also, west can only keep its current living standards by becoming enclosed nobility ruling with iron fist over international precariat.

>the last time europeans embraced nationalism wholesale they started the first and second world war.

Correlation, not causation. All of the countries responsible for the World War were imperialists when smaller nations surrounding them were nationalists.

The roots for World War 1 are in (German) Imperialism not nationalism. Same applies to World War 2.

>an identity exists now
>now
>implying the indian national movement would have been able to happen if it was not for a bureaucracy that was largely run by indians for the most part.
Most indians don't have a problem identifying themselves as (regional heritage) and indian. Saying that the indian government is bulldozing cultures when spends a large amount of money to keep those cultures afloat via media exposure and the like is pretty fucking wrong and patronizing.
>they rarely are
then they wouldn't get those jobs you retard.

>Russia will push France and UK's shit in
The biggest contributors to NATO have nothing to worry about from Russia.

There is always something happening, true. But when you're country is involved in something, then you have the power to influence it.

"muh sandnigs" proves you have no true argument, and that the thought of people who aren't like you triggers you.

Sure, it was imperialism, just like nazism wasn't nationalism.

>nazism wasn't nationalism
It wasn't. Please tell me how does the action of the Nazis reflect nationalism?

They claimed to be ethnic nationalists, yet were happy to allow the French to live in their "ethnically homogenous" state. They handed out "honorary aryan" titles when it was convenient.

The Nazis were not nationalist, none of their actions fit the definition of nationalism. I repeat:
You cannot be a super state spanning hundreds of ethnicities, languages and cultures and claim to be nationalist.

They get those jobs because everybody wants to go to college, and none of the youth wants to do them, so the kind of incompetent foreign labor takes the jobs
>But when you're country is involved in something, then you have the power to influence it.
Shows what you know. By the end of Bush's presidency 9/10 Americans wanted out of Iraq but still they didn't get it
>muh sandnigs" proves you have no true argument
Um no, I already made my argument, I'm just insulting you on the side because it clearly makes you butthurt.
>the thought of people who aren't like you triggers you.
Very nice projection

The roots of WW1 are tensions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Why do people pretend everything is about Germany?

Fucking die commie

>muh german people under one reich
>french and brits must pay
>need lebensraum for my german people
>proceeds to start a war and get it's shit kicked in.
yeah, it wasn't nationalist rhetoric at all.

>The roots of WW1 are tensions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Just the casus belli. War was inevitable due to imperialist ambitions of European states, not the smaller nations that were going to suffer from war.

Trying to blame Bosnians for the world war shows inability to understand larger schemes.

>They get those jobs because everybody wants to go to college, and none of the youth wants to do them, so the kind of incompetent foreign labor takes the jobs

What's wrong with that? Spartan gets to pursue finer things in life while helots do the filthy work for him.

>muh german people under one reich
This would be nationalist but the Nazis didn't do that. They accepted all sorts of people in their little Empire.
>french and brits must pay
Hitler allowed the French to live in his empire and actually didn't mind Britain that much. In his theories for post-war Europe, Britain was still independent I believe.
>need lebensraum for my german people
Nothing to do with nationalism.
>proceeds to start a war and get it's shit kicked in.
Because he was running out of money and needed resources. Imperialism, quite simple.

>yeah, it wasn't nationalist rhetoric at all.
I bet you actually think Donald Trump is a nationalist. Firstly, my question was about what the nazis did not what they said they were going to do. Please answer my original question: How were the Nazis nationalist in practice? As for nationalist rhetoric, only the first one could be seen as somewhat nationalist.

I keep hearing that, but I don't see how WW1 was a historical inevitability without A-H wanting to take over Serbia.

Because the Spartans kept the helots under control, while we don't