Thoughts on raising the min wage?

I think raising the minimum wage will get a non-negligible number of people off entitlement programs, yes.

So fucking what. I'm tired of this ridiculous logic. Social benefits don't go away, like the other guy said, because that's what's referred to as "mandatory spending". That means the number never changes. The budget is what the budget is. Besides that it account for maybe 4% of our budget. 4% to keep people from starving to death and raising the quality of life across the country to stop us from basically being Mexico or any other country that doesn't have social programs.

They likely test as worse than highschool students as far as competency.

with more and more mechanization and automation these service level jobs are experiencing huge fluxes.

Once automated driving is a thing over 10% of the country currently employed in logistics is going to hit the market.

Supply is going to go up and Price shifts down.

Significant portions of the economy are going to contract.

Managers generally prefer to herd cats instead of kittens.

America is going to have to export tons of workers to africa or southeast asia in order to pay them competitively.

>Managers generally prefer to herd cats instead of kittens.

What?

A basic income for everyone would be far better and more cost-effective.

Then you could have that shitty minimum wage job and survive (or even a part-time job), or work in a great career and have more money to save/spend.

How is it more cost effective to shift the burden onto taxpayers?

You know you're like 20 trillion in debt already right?

>workers are more productive than ever
Productivity in most OECD countries has been down since 2010.
wsj.com/articles/the-mystery-of-declining-productivity-growth-1431645038
>raising the federal minimum wage is an appropriate way to shift some of the profits of increased productivity.
Productivity growth is the growth of measured output minus the growth of labor input. If you increase the minimum wage, you are actually decreasing productivity.
Minimum wage is just a mechanism created by the government so they can continue mass immigration. The fight for 15 is just a reaction to low economic growth with continued immigration.

Basic income would replace other forms of welfare.

though i dont think minimum wage is the solution...

>You'll get paid based on what you deserve. If your effort or abilities don't need more, well, too bad for you.

this is so much bullshit its not even funny.

you'll get paid based on who you know and how far they can propel your financial career minus how much those who are ahead of you can weasel out of it

>raise min wage to $15
>people prior to increase still making $15
>everything goes up 2x in price
>great work guys, great work, now back to welfare

>people prior to increase still making $15
people prior to increase making $15 still make $15*

Raise it.

A man or woman employed should be able to live off their labor.

And this country can more than afford it. We gotta succeed together not leave the lower class in the dust.

a man or woman employed should be paid according to how much their work is worth. A minimum wage job is not worth a living wage. Also, socialism makes no sense in a country of 325 million people with different races, cultures, etc.

For the last time, for the idiot seats, the burden on the tax payer stays the same regardless. Think of it like an automatic withdrawal. 4% of the United States budget goes to welfare programs no. matter. what. It doesn't change. It doesn't go up if more people need it, it doesn't go down if people don't want it.

Why $15? Why not make the minimum wage $1 million an hour? That way everyone can buy everything they could possibly want! We'll live in a Utopian paradise!

So why do they bother releasing a budget if X% goes towards whatever no. matter. what.

/Thread

Discretionary spending.

After all this is Veeky Forums and to think that many people here would of read a fucking economics book surprises me.
If you increase the minimum wage umployment will rise giving the already low skilled workers even less from having no job.

...

$15 an hour is considered the cutoff in NYC for a living wage, which is defined as when one can reasonably expect to be able to spend 1/3 of your income on housing, 1/3 on expenses, and 1/3 in savings after working 40 hours.

Because companies can rely on consumers still buying at twice the price right? LOL everyone is dumb but us right? XD

Why does everyone deserve to live in NYC? Why does everuyone deserve to save 1/3 of his income? Are these people shopping at Whole Foods ands buying the latest iPhone? The standard for a "living wage" is completely arbitrary.

The standard for a living wage is working 40 hours a week and being able to shop without using food stamps.
How poor are you that you think $15 and hour is a lot of money?

>be bussiness owner
>have 10 people for 10 positions
>paying them a fair share of 5 dollars each
>government puts gun on my head
>"increase to 10 dollars or i kill you"
>see my bussiness plan
>decide the best course of action
>fire the 5 people
>pay 5 people to do same work as 10
>pay 10 dollars each
>5 people cannot do the job of 10 people
>bussiness closes

Shop where? Whole Foods?

No, dipwad. Walmart, where 75% of all transactions are carried out with government aid.

ah failed business man

fire 9, pay last 15, use amortized savings to buy machine that works as hard as 20

What are they buying? Shitty junk food? Because every time I see a person using food stamps at Walmart it's almost always with a cart full of overpriced unhealthy crap.

Overpriced in comparison with Whole Foods, or even the Organic section at Safeway? I don't think so.

...

Putting more money in the pockets of the poorest people is the best way to boost the economy.

Poor people don't save shit and live paycheck to paycheck buying useless crap. it's the perfect way to boost a consumer based economy

everyone crying that everything else will rise in cost is mistaken. Consumers dictate the price they will pay for items. businesses either adapt to this or fail

user you forgot the best part
>business bought out by large corporation at a fraction of the cost
>can afford automation to improve operations
>people complain about greedy corporations, and think that increasing the minimum wage to $20 will get back at them

Well, i tried to be optimistic.

The people asking for a higher minimum wage have no idea how the economy works on an extremely basic level. It'll be the worst thing to happen to them.

>min wage abolished
>liberals think $15 is on the radar
>corporations begin massively researching automation for the basic every day baboon job
>1.43 years into research they have begun developing
>2.98 years total and every job a child can do has been replaced with automation
>???????
>mechanics and engineers still gucci

I either don't get what you meant but won
t higher salaries encourage automation? With no minimum wage you could get workforce for the cheap

Harder jobs require smarter ai , approaching sentience. Thats hard.

Replacing everyone on the low end of the totem pole is the low hanging fruit

How about something like a police officer, no robot knows what to do in situations they have to encounter.

This is stupid, half the time the police don't get it right.

> Heuristic behavioural analysis
> determine most probable outcome
> Instruct police how to proceed.

Yeah well have you seen i-robot? Not basing my entire statement on a movie but they make a good point. A robot would go after the most likely to survive.

Yes but that just reinforces survival of the fittest.

Alternately they could just include a system to save the least likely to survive, as the most likely will probably be able to on their own

>implying you can develop algorithmic 'hyueristic behavioral analysis' that works at or above even the most basic human level

wew

That's true but do you know how much information has to go into a robot for that to happen it could take years for something like that to happen. Also if this ever happened, no minimum wage, I think that the government wouldn't allow something like that to happen.

Not only that but they have to make millions of differently programmed robots for this idea to work, it's flawed in a lot of ways.

Robots aren't required in every case.

In any case, data entry positions and anything involving simple pattern recognition will be the first to go

thank you for your micro 101 input

>Managers and bottom-level employees now make the same at clothing stores and fast-food restaurants
Yeah, that's gunna make everyone happy.

Only way this can work, is if everyone puts all their employees back on a 3 month probational period where they're basically told "if you don't work $15/hr worth, you're fuckin gone." and then no more tyrones working flipping burgers. Everyone will get called a racist, and then anarchy.

>Most popular newspaper in my state, The Star Ledger, publishes multiple articles and editorials criticizing our governor Chris Christie for vetoing a bill mandating a $15 minimum wage
>Has ads advertising jobs in their newspaper manufacturing plant starting at $10 an hour.

>mfw

URRE$

I see minimum wages as the fastest route to Skynet coming online. You get $15/hr min wages. McDonalds says fuck you 99%'rs and we get McAutomatons serving us burgers. Before you know it Burger King, Taco bell and the rest follow suit. This in turn leads to massive growth in AI and fuzzy logic technologies to increase the productivity of the new robot work force.

20 years from now there will be no such thing as a $15/hr minimum wage because there will be no low wage workforce. There will be only survivors who exist as either part of the resistance or the spies working for skynet. The world will be in ruins. The landscape will be covered in the skeletons of dead humans and off in the distance you see a laser sight coming from the eyes of a Ronald McDonald terminator asking if you want fries with that as he crushes old skulls and bones with each approaching step.

...

"water is wet"
>please elaborate

I don't understand this argument. You say a person should only be paid what their job is worth but all jobs are worth something.

I'm sure you love your fresh food. Who packaged it? Some factory worker I bet. I used to work at a factory and you make close to $11/h. It's hard to live comfortably on that.

Let's say every factory worker was promoted. Who is going to package our food now? Who is going to load it onto the truck? Who is going to stock it on the shelf?

If a person feels like their calling in life is to be a cashier then why not pay them enough to survive. Then let those who are smarter and more driven become educated and make more than the minimum to survive.

The problem we have is the fuckers who are the CEOs making 10,000% more than everyone else and hording all the money.

The real problem is the enormous wage gap between the absolute richest and the poorest.

They need to just increase pay EVERYWHERE. We have yet to adjust to the amount of inflation that is ever increasing. I'm sure you noticed portions getting smaller and prices becoming higher yet we all still make the same amount of money.

It's not coincidence that shit is so expensive nowadays.

Cristie Kreme is a washed up fatboy who needs to wrap up his term quick

Ideally American citizens should be able to work any minimum wage job and be able to live a reasonable life. This is the level of luxury we are pushing for as a whole. We want every last mouthbreather to reproduce and buy more shit. I dont know why anyone would be against this unless they are getting wage anxiety because they already make 15 after years of climbing the mcdonalds ladder.

>The real problem is the enormous wage gap between the absolute richest and the poorest.

The real problem is that the poorest have no leverage and can't accumulate any - everything goes to rent,food, booze and tv. Bread and circuses.

Increase pay everywhere? That would increase companies' costs and they would raise prices in response. This literally will cause inflation.

Jobs people can't live off shouldn't exist. If you can't afford to sustain a person then you should do it yourself. And people are stupid enough to take underpaid jobs, so those people should be protected against themselves.

But people should be able to live off 9 or 10 dollars per hour.

I mean realistically, if you can't even earn your own wage of 1500 dollars after working for a month than you're spending your time on work that isn't economically viable. It's a waste of time doing that.

>Illegals in America are able to send their kids to college while making $3 an hour without getting welfare checks
>Tyrone working at Mcdonalds making miminum wage and getting welfare checks says he can't live because he can't afford to pay for his Samsung G7 and designer sneakers.

Real answer: because niggers and white trash would still be poor and beg for more gibsmedat, it's their fundamental lack of economic knowledge that fucks them; not the difference between 9 or 15

Raise the minimum wage then stop the practice of tipping.

You highlight the real problem in America. Financial responsibility. Instead of throwing money at the poor and trying to raise the minimum wage, we need to preach the concept of living below our means. Our culture is littered with the glorification of bling and the items that cost more are often automatically considered the best. Also, pretty much every generation going forward has a severe deficiency in retirement savings. And this crosses all races and economic diversities. You WILL live a better life and be happier in the second half of your life if you don't buy them new Nikes or expensive ass purses, iphones, golf clubs etc...

The other thing is, I think increasing minimum employment is a bad move and will just lead to increases in the cost of living, leading to the desire for another increase. That said, I don't necessarily think the free market has handed this well. If increasing the minimum wage is bad for the economy because that increases the cost of production and leads to inflation, we need to acknowledge that capping executive income would not affect the economy adversely. The top income earners are not spending most of their income as the bottom earners do, so their income does not help the economy in proportion. Cap executive pay to something like 100x the lowest paid income worker's pay to as high as 147x as high(the ratio in Germany in 2013). The downside is the idea of losing "talent" in management, but if its a government regulation, I don't see that as an issue. Not to mention, there will always be someone gunning for those top positions whether if it's 2000x the lowest paid employees of 147x.

I firmly believe if we teach our population how to save AND put some sort of cap on executive pay or somehow tie that to a ratio to lowest paid employee wage, quality of life will improve in the US and the middle income bracket could grow one more.

there should be no minimum wage imo. Let the market sort it out.

>Jobs you can't live off of shouldn't exist

It's not like the 15 - 18 y/o group had a hard enough time getting employed or anything.

>Inaccurate anecdotes
never change /pol/acks

doesn't matter, the actual problem with poor people is that they don't know what they're doing in regards to finance

think about the phrase "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer". do you think, just maybe, there may be a reason for this beyond "durr they have connections n shieet gib benefits white man"?

the rich know what they're doing, the poor don't. that's literally it. you give a billionaire 5 dollars and tell him to turn it into 50, he'll do it. you give a poor guy 5 dollars and tell him to turn it into 50 and he'll come back with 5 cents and a packet of chocolates.

raising the minimum wage to 15 will just raise unemployment by cutting off jobs worth below 15 dollars, and people will go onto welfare as a result

then people on welfare will vote for politicians who support welfare (democrats most of the time), they'll get voted in, welfare will be made more powerful, and as a result more people will go onto welfare and stop working

if anyone here has read economics in one lesson you'll understand my point, but i'll paraphrase a bit of the book for people who haven't:

having welfare policies makes people less likely to work because instead of working for their full pay, they're now effectively working for the difference between unemployment benefits and the minimum wage. if unemployment benefits are (say) 7 dollars an hour compared to the minimum wage of 15 dollars an hour, people will now effectively be working for 8 dollars an hour instead of 15, as welfare functions as a base level of income that's easy to get

cut off welfare, let anyone crying about it starve to fucking death, and teach finance and economics in school instead of encouraging kids to take LSD and fuck eachother. the problem will be fixed within 30 years.

your $15 /hr fast food employees are easily replaced, son.

Define "live off" and "sustain a person". You can probably feed and shelter yourself for like $500 a month.

I can't wait until we have efficient payment machines and waiterless casual restaurants like they've been using for decades in Japan.

Fuck You unskilled $15 menial labor.

You'r ignorant, uneducated ass is entitled to jack shit.

Union Labor
> "I'mma strike and hold your business hostage until you give in to our Union demands for arbitrarily set labor prices!!!!"

Jeff Bezos:
> lollololololololololololololololololololololololol

:middlefinger:

Abolish a federal minimum wage all together, let employers and employees compete for wages. In theory, it'll reduce on-the-job shirking, increase productivity, and thus rewards

The only businesses that would be able to afford a minimum pay of 15/hr are the ones already well-off

RETARDED... Learn how the market works. The only way to make it work is to seal both sides. If you raise minimum wage either the product price will go up or people will hire less people. You have to close all the holes so that employers cannot put the money anywhere else.

Raise minimum wage, manually control product price, force rich to give up their margin. But rich people make the laws so they make sure you never have the option of this solution.

Remember that raising minimum wage will never change the market.

This makes my dick hard.

I can't wait until it becomes super cheap to replace cheap labor with robots. It'll spark a whole beautiful shitstorm of people whining online about how companies won't pay them $10 to scan items anymore.

Which tech companies do I invest in for machines that literally flip burgers and deep fry chicken tenders?

Better to strengthen the unions and increase the unionization rate.

That's what we do here in viking commieland, and it works rather well.

Sure, you can get shit jobs that only pay 13-15$ an hour, but better jobs pay more, and there are all kind of deals where you get better salary for working in evenings/weekends/etc

But this only works when you have tax laws that steal from the rich, so they are better off reinvesting in their companies and making jobs instead of recieving ridiculous salaries they only pay 20% effective tax on due to loopholes and sneakiness

"Unemployment" is as much of a fantasyland, meme statistic as it's ever been, familia.

>unemployment is at the healthy 5% range

Fucking lol @ the cope on this board

Overpriced compared to bulk purchases of grains, rice, beans, frozen chicken, and frozen vegetables

This.
>board full of bitcucks
>major cope

12$ sounds much reasonable compared to 15. i worked a min wage job and it SUCKS. i only got 9.25 and worked 24hours a week. pay was every 2 weeks so the check was around 42 hours. they dont pay much and dont give much hours so people dont get any benefits like medical. i used too disagree with 15$ a hour but once i was in their shoes i understood their cause.

these jobs are good for someone in school for example but NOBODY can make a living off of this. most of you wont even understand. try making it with only 320$ like i did for 2 weeks. thank god now i'm in a much better job. some min wage jobs are a lot of hard work for very little pay.

>thoughts on socialism?

>what is livingnwith roommates
>what is cooking your own food instead of getting takeaway every day
>what is refraining from buying the newest shiny gadgets as soon as they come out

when my old job fired me i needed a job and i took a min wage right away. worked there until i was able to find another. i needed to pay car, car insurance, rent, school loans, credit cards, daily expenses, etc

>minimum wage
>school loans
Majored in basket weaving did ya?
Also
>credit card debt
Cmon, son.

lol what, do some computations friend.

It is sad that there's people that actually think like this.

Raising minium wage it is more a tool to gather votes, than an actual solution to the workers' economic problems.