Alex Smith and Patric Mueller have joined the Nethack dev team: nethack.org
Expect great things when the next release comes out in 2032.
Pochengband 5.0.0 Comp (Until July 28):
Sexy Draconian Monk
angband.oook.cz
>FAQ and What to Play
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What to Play?: pastebin.com
>Webterminal
Rogue Nexus – Cataclysm online with shared map and tons of other roguelikes in a simple online package! (USA Only)
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>Individual Game Pastas
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Previous thread:
1st for angry ogres and trolls and ruks
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/rlg/ discord channel where
Never ever.
A literal circle jerk like /trash/'s except roguelike themed?
someone kill this man
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Is this possibly the most anti-fun mechanic to exist?
are you playing that race that mimics other races and then can only learn a permanent form if he absorbs the corpse of said creature
that sounds fun against the serpent
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>watch native chinese movies to write unique dialogue for blork and azrael
what
what
what?
Context: it's a reply to the question about Wiglaf being removed in DCSS.
hangedman's rants are absolutely fucking unreadable.
Top fucking autist.
but
what do native chinese movies have to do with those uniques
urug doesn't even talk
what the fuck!
Nah I'm just playing a normal mimic. You're thinking of possessor and they can permanently take over a form if the monster they kill drops a corpse and they possess it. Mimics can only mimic live monsters and they have a really low chance of remembering a mimicked form permanently. Not sure what the actual value is and I don't feel like digging around the .c file for it but I'm convinced it's something like a 1% chance.
>you see here: 7.5kw generator
Where do you find these in DDA?
That comment is referring to Bai Suzhen.
Fuck if I know, I was just giving the overall context.
simple question
i get that he doesn't add much to the game
but why remove him
ah, the dragon lady.
isn't she a touhou or something
I guess this is supposed to explain it:
>they're 'plain'
what an awful excuse
I want a crawl fork with ALL the fucking removed monsters
bring them all back I say
and make more monsters spawn on every floor
make that fucking XP FLOW
>removing hippogriffs
wow um can you like, not?
Hill giants have a unique role so I don't know what the fuck they were mentioned for.
Is Caves of Qud a good startpoint for a newbie?
If something doesn't add anything to the game, removing it is a reasonable thing to do.
You don't have to write a 400 word essay in multiple places on why you did it though.
The problem with DCSS devs is that they *know* that some of their changes will make people bitch and whine. Then, instead of being sensible and ignoring reddit's tears, they involve themselves with it- as above.
Like tzitzimeh are based on an obscure mythological creature from Aztec lore: en.wikipedia.org
Bai Suzhen is an obscure mythological creature from chinese lore: en.wikipedia.org
I think I got the references right, forgive me if I'm not as much of an autist as regret-index.
>tfw never enough xp to get 27 in a weapon skill before Lair even after clearing D
And that's JUST a weapon skill. Not even including Armor, Shield, Dodge, Evo/Invo, Spellcasting and possibly Stealth or Trasmut
Try Tales of Maj'Eyal. That should get you started and then work your way up to the harder RLs.
Caves of Qud could work for a newbie but it depends on how much of a newbie you are when it comes to roguelikes.
That's so much XP. Even on a HO with axes or a Halfling with slings.
Why would that ever be reasonable?
>dumping all your exp in one skill
hello diminishing returns
To this day I cannot remember if Hippogrifs or Griffons are the more dangerous ones.
I think it's Griffons? No clue, honestly.
Hill Giants should be renamed to GREATER OGRES.
Well I dug through the mimic code anyway and it turns out it's a 1 out of 20 chance to get a permanent form.
lmao
>not learning all of the 2hus from bkub
baka senpai desu
playing felids makes me want to fault myself IRL
There is in fact an arrelgian IRC channel but it is only for people named Chris so I can't share it
>The problem with DCSS devs is that they *know* that some of their changes will make people bitch and whine. Then, instead of being sensible and ignoring reddit's tears, they involve themselves with it- as above.
Yeah, god forbid the devs listen to the opinions of the people who play their game. What kind of idiot would do that?
Griffons are more dangerous.
Hill Giants exist to punish bad players who think "I have some armor and evade. I'll be fine getting close to it" on D:10
Like me
>148744624
>I was curious and there is actually a /rlg/ steam group
pffahaha
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That's disgusting
One or the other is fine.
But you don't do something you know will cause an uproar and then descend into the squabble yourself with a retarded essay like that.
Fair enough.
I would be okay with saying goodbye to both.
Hippogriffs do literally nothing. It's okay to have chaff monsters, but even an orc can threaten with a branded weapon in early D. I have never considered a Hippogriff a threat.
Cut Hill Giants, replace with more Cyclopses.
Cyclopses are more dangerous and it also means more ruks in the dungeon!
both of the members are me
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>Cyclopses are more dangerous
Not really. Cyclops in DCSS have slowmove.
Replacing hill giants with more rukthrowers does sound fun, though.
I wouldn't mind joining, but I'm wary to share any of my information with you guys beyond my online dcss stuff.
>there's actually a youtube channel of someone LPing DCSS
>he's been doing it for years and doesn't seem to have an ascension video on his channel
>watch one of his latest videos
>"I'll start doing shorter sessions regularly instead of long one, that should help. I know how to win this game goddamit"
>faults two minutes later
roguelikes are cruel
>Cyclops in DCSS have slowmove
doesn't really help when you cross their path at an intersection
A
FUCKING
MOLD
I agree that Wiglaf isn't threatening, but I disagree with Donald's removal from Labyrinth.
Personally, I never see him there.
I think they should give Donald different skillsets, Might and Haste aren't really threatening for unique that can appear anywhere.
I'm more scared at unique with Banishment than Donald.
Even with slowmove, they are still far more dangerous than "bigger ogre by the time you are guaranteed to have an Ogre Debilitization Device", simply by virtue of monster ranged attacks being really strong.
There is a point at which variety for the sake of variety is not a good thing(DDA comes to mind), but DCSS is nowhere near that point. Having some "pointless" fluff adds breadth to the game.
DCSS has body dysmorphic disorder with a side of bulimia. It does not need to lose more weight.
Nah it's just fine in terms of content, it just needs to be shorter
>mimicking a mold instead of the hound spammer
How are they later on? I tried one out and so far I've only learned nibelung form, which was actually nice except I'm too high level for it now.
Donald does not need to be threatening. He is amusing, and that's what made him a valuable unique.
>it just needs to be shorter
I feel like this is an opinion primarily held by people who have played the game too much and just want to get the game over with faster because they play out of habit more than anything.
When I first started, I loved how big the game seemed. I was excited every time I entered a new branch, and they felt like distinct sub-areas as opposed to pit stops on the way to the orb.
kitty
>not spectating him and handholding him to a win
I don't mind the branches, it's just the start is so slow and pretty much always the same
Nah, I'd rather every piece on the board had a thought-out purpose.
You can create monsters with both interesting properties and interesting flavour. The Griffon/Hippogriff distinction doesn't really manage that though.
Strongly agree with this, but I think a shorter crawl would do better as a fork where you could really go all out and tighten up the game.
I think a crawl with more variety in the areas you can visit (more portal branches/alternate lair branches, alternate elf/crypt branches), but shorter branch lengths could be a lot of fun.
They're actually pretty strong and fun but avoid mimicking monsters without innate attacks (like ultra-elite paladins and stuff) until you find a really good weapon. Try and get a basilisk early game because they have innate +10 speed and a suspension gaze attack that is infinitely suspend your enemies, there's one in arena but sadly the memory for that didn't stick so if the same thing happens to you I'd say grind up until the later 30s and go to arena to get Dracolisk which is pretty much just a stronger Basilisk but be careful because whenever you get monsters with bite/claw/crush/whatever attacks you'll start out with -20 unskilled. I didn't mimic the Zephyr Lord because when mimicking a monster you do get their abilities but sometimes you might too low level to use them and I have no idea what level hound summon is so I didn't want to waste 4 turns and I couldn't teleport away because I was fearlocked because death molds apparently have really low charisma modifiers.
If you remove all popcorn monsters you are left with a very stressful, very short game where the only times you actually play is to make high-stakes tactical decision, which is very mentally taxing and tiresome and ultimately not fun over long periods of time. This only leads to people actively avoiding said tactical decisions and simplifying gameplay to a RNG showdown.
This can already be seen on, say, Orc:2 where you can either attempt to kill the hordes of orc sorcerers, high priests and knights coming to you from all directions with next to no cover in the whole level, or just go there with a trusty wand of disintegration to make a killhole and ctrl-direction away until.everything is gone
>If you remove all popcorn monsters
Quoting myself:
>It's okay to have chaff monsters.
The cool thing about having levels is that you can re-purpose low level dudes to be weak dudes in higher level fights.
Then those lower levels dudes are interesting and relevant in multiple ways and that's awesome. Hippogriffs, giant newts, and giant cockroaches are not awesome.
Your orc:2 example is bad because there are plenty of corners to take out the orcs 1 at a time.
Agree with the post though! It's not good game design to have every monster be a special snowflake.
They're not chaff if they're a serious threat.
They're a threat early on, and they become chaff later.
The same could be said of virtually every monster.
Not Hippogrifs, giant newts, giant cockroaches, and ball pythons.
They are always weaklings.
Feel free to maintain a bloat branch.
I've died to a ball python before.
And giant rats, bats and grey oozes. Removal is strength.
Yeah, ball pythons are probably workable.
It's fun to have quokkas for example, because being killed by one is the pinnacle of an embarrassing rip.
That is focusing a bit too much on the endgame for a genre where most players only see the early-to-mid game. Giant newts and giant cockroaches serve the purpose of being handy xp bags for level 1/2/3 characters who are too weak to safely take on much else. D:1 and D:2 are generally just loot and xp-reaping levels. This is a common feature on rpg-inspired games, and one that people accept as necessary to get to the meat of the game (this also shouldn't take over 15 minutes or so unless you're doing some gimped combo or conduct). Occasionally they're also useful to keep stronger enemies away (keeping a newt as a buffer between you and the GSC ogre for instance)
Crawl also has plenty of dangerous monsters on early game, it's not that bad. Adders, gnolls, ogres, orc wizards and priests, shadow imps, occasionally even hounds can all fuck you up if you aren't carefu. Once you LEARN to be careful they are boring (except gnolls, D:2 gnolls with polearms and throwing nets are universally bullshit), but a learning curve where you are expected to die at least a few times before getting it right is common on roguelikes.
Not him, but I've only ascended 4 times and I still think the game is way too long. I like how there are all these different branches, but there's over 50 large levels to go through to win a game, even if you minimize the number.
Also, for the first three or so levels there's such a thing as biting more popcorn than you can chew. If you're fresh from killing an adder and at 1/3 of your puny level 2 elf HP bar, seeing a jackal pack approach can be horrifying. Or a quokka.
A monster that poses no threat is a monster that poses no threat, regardless of what it may have done ten floors earlier. Replacing all hippogriffs with orcs is just cutting down variety with no net gain other than removal for the sake of removal.
I don't want to fight the same enemies over and over the whole game.
Is a Blowgun of EV a good statstick?
Yes if you're in a phase of the game in which centaurs can wreck you.
Since DCSS provides the player with most of the monster's information in the x-v screen, I don't see the problem with having more quantity. Even if the number of monsters and uniques was quadrupled, with major overlap between them, that wouldn't be bad in any obvious way.
>people who have played the game too much and just want to get the game over with faster because they play out of habit more than anything.
I have played the game too much and you're damn right I don't enjoy it anymore.
But I don't play it out of habit.
I play it because goddamit shit fuck I won't die without having done a 15 runes ziggurat-clear ascension with an octopode necromancer
It would be harder for new players to get into the game since they would have to check monster stats more often than they do now.
Quadrupling seems like too much monsters to remember even for veterans, but doubling would be fine in my opinion.
I can't read this shit, what the fuck is it about?
Why can't you read it?
He's arguing that DCSS has become "quality over quantity", due to activism on the part of a small number of devs, often to the detriment of the game as OK content like salamander firebrands gets culled just to so that the devs can stay busy.
Read the responses to the post.
For me, the most fun parts of roguelikes are when I get in over my head and have to suddenly shift from comfy otabbing to unfucking myself in a tactical panic.
If you remove all of the "bloat" and relaxed parts, then the pacing becomes a flat line. It's just tedium from start to finish.
>then the pacing becomes a flat line. It's just tedium from start to finish
Either that or every single fight is a struggle just to survive.
>sprite artist molests my little sister
>want to ruin this fucker
>turns out he draws sprites for some freetard game from the 80s
>infiltrate his weird little development cult as an idea guy
>come up with ideas for characters to add to the game
>he has to draw sprites for these people
>some of them have special clothing, which he also has to draw
>then I use my alt to argue why that new content should be removed
>all of his effort goes to waste
It all makes sense now.
As I said, a flat line.
How has it become quality over quantity if quality content is cut?
at last I truly see
I agree, their ideology seems to be anti-quantity rather than anything useful. However, again, whoever feels passionate about this needs to show them the light by maintaining a branch that preserves the good content, rather than merely complaining on a board that nobody cares about.
Why don't you ask the guy who made the post originally.
So to powergame the energy system with ogres and similar you do some low-aut action until they attack you once, then move away while they recover? And you keep it up by moving while they attack? I don't fully understand it yet
I have 3 pips of rN and have completed Lair, Dungeon and Orc. Should I go for Depths, Pandemonia or Elf next? I found Snake, Swamp and Slime but fuck those for now
Quality travel pathing
Snake or Swamp. You will die if you go anywhere else.