Where to get cheap 60s v8s?

They generally cause you to lose top speed if the engine can't rev very high.

The way to fix that is to figure out what your tire size is going to be, figure out what your redline is, know the final drive of your transmission, and then gear the rear end to your desired top speed. You can also adjust tire size (within reason) to accomplish the same thing.

If you're feeling spendy, a 4L80e is literally just a TH400 with an overdrive, as well as numerous internal improvements over the original, though it also does have some downsides. With a manual valvebody you can skip the computer for it, and with a lock up converter you really wouldn't have to compromise top speed vs acceleration.

For example, running a 26" tall tire with 3.73 gears with a TH400 behind a typical big block that redlines at 5500 RPM, you'd have a mechanical top speed limit of about 110 MPH. You'd probably get there quickly though, it'd be tons of fun around town, but you'd want to avoid highways.

Same thing with a 4L80e and a lock up converter and your top speed is now 150 MPH and highways are usable again. Still fun around town (same gearing in the 1st 3 gears at the TH400), still extremely durable, but now you have an overdrive.

Only issue is that it's about twice the price of a TH400 or more in most cases. A rebuilt TH400 on Summit will run you about $900 plus shipping. A 4L80e goes for $2k, though you could probably pick up a local or eBay reman'd unit for less.

Wow thanks for all the information.
There's a TH400 on my CL right now for $300, and he says it's on good condition, and comes with the torque converter.
There are no 4L80es in my area though. To be honest, this would not be a DD, so avoiding highways would be fine.

Thanks again, now I have to go read about manual conversion kits.

I got my 1969 454 out of a motor home, bought the whole thing for 500 bucks.

$300 is a pretty good deal for a TH400. You should see if it's ever been rebuilt. I got one for $400 and one for $350, the $350 one was all original, had never been rebuilt. If you get a working one for $300 I'm going to be slightly jealous.

As far as manual shifting the TH400, all you really need is a shift kit and/or manual valvebody. A popular one is the TransGo 400-3. Full manual control, and apparently you can switch it back to automatic in 5 minutes if you're so inclined.

I'm going with a TransGo 400-1-2 for my own transmission, which would probably work for you as well. It gives you the option for full manual control (hold any gear as long as you want, downshift to any gear any time you want), but if you leave it in "drive" it'll still shift automatically.

The 400-3 is $83 on Summit, the 400-1-2 is $66. Or you can go with a new valve body, which would also work, but that's also significantly more expensive.

Pretty much any kit you get is going to come with some parts for the internals as well, though it's optional to install them with the TransGo kits. If you're planning on rebuilding it, you can use them while you're in there. If you're just dropping the pan, you can skip them.

Also, I recommend highly against rebuilding your own transmission unless you REALLY want to learn about them. Not because it's rocket science, but because it's fucking expensive.

With the trans I bought and parts, I have about $1100 into my transmission. With special tools, I'm at about $1750 total, which is the same price as a pro built one with the same specs. If you want it to hold 800 HP, just buy one pre-built. It'll cost about the same and you'll have it a hell of a lot quicker.

On the plus side though, I now know all about clutch packs and apply pistons.

someone local to me is selling a (probably) borked chrysler 340 for cheap
would be nice with a couple of huffers strapped to it.

>C Body
>Expensive

Pick one. You can find Furys for under 4k running and driving easily in nearly any market. Pic related was bought 2 years ago for under a grand. Swapped the battery, voltage reg, starter, and rebuilt the carb and she idles at 800 rpm and shifts well.

The 2 in my area are both about 13k, but on every other CL i look at they are under 4k. wtf

thanks though. I guess my best bet would be one with a good engine but a shitty body

Or you can pick up a 440 block for about 400 or less and build from there. Hell, I got a long lock for 500 with 40k on it and it is now on its way to a 528 stroker.

But where would I buy an engine?
daytona.craigslist.org/cto/5505532639.html
I have this by me and I'm tempted to try talking down to like $2500, taking the engine and then scrapping the body to piss off boomers :^)

That only has 318 dumbass, 440 was the trim level. The 440 engine itself didn't come out until 1966, and even then only in full size cars.

jacksonville.craigslist.org/pts/5545435771.html

The motorhome had a 440, the 413 was in the w200 pickup. They didn't use it because it had a balance issues. The truck later became RollSmokey and the engine was built into a 512 stoker and put in a Plymouth Fury wagon

if you are serious about it don't cheap out and buy a new machined longblock with proper forged internals

you are not the guys at roadkill, you will have a terrible time boring and machining the block aswell at putting the rotating assembly together

the w200 was a low deck 400. They put in a 4.25 stroker crank in it after it was bored 0.030 over which gives you 512.

A 4.25" crank in a 413 would give you about a 470ci motor.

Look for a 4 door muscle car they are cheap as fuck people will sell them running with a rebuilt engine for 1k
Tend to stay away from mopars they don't have as much aftermarket parts as GM and Ford
How much work do you want to do with the engine? Do you want to just throw it in and drive or would you be okay with building one? Because if you go to a scrap yard and find an old mark iv big block chevy you can get it rebuilt for around 2 grand
I wouldn't try to find a motor home or some box truck with a motor they tend to be hogs somewhere in the ballpark of 200hp from a 600 pound engine but it will work

If you just building a 400-500hp street engine, the stock BB mopar stuff is fine. You might want to swap pistons to get the compression up sure, but all have tough forged rods, and cast cranks didn't start until 1973. Even then, they aren't weak sister GM shit

Oops my bad

I'm not looking for a 440 specifically, but thanks. Any other cars that I can find like that though?
Thanks, Im seeing now that 4 doors are way cheaper than 2 door cars.

What about this piece of shit? jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/5554651479.html
I wonder what engine it has?

>i plan to do it over a summer when I don't have any other expenses.
what would be involved in building the engine? that sounds terribly expensive
Not really I can tell you big block chevy arnt that expensive
A mild rotating assembly will run you about 1200 bucks you can buy some shitty aluminum head off ebay for 500 bucks a pair or use the stock heads and replace the hardware which will run you close to a new head. Cam will run you 150 bucks with a sold flat tappet cam lifters are about 200 bucks? I know there cheap compared to others but I don't know the exact price. Rocker arms will set you back about 400 if you can't use the stock, don't really know the price of pushrods but they arnt that expensive,
Intake manifold if you can't use the stock will be around 200 to 400 depending what you want, carb will be around 500
It gets a little pricey but at the end you'll get around 400 hp
Just do some research

That Sprint probably has a 350 or 307, nothing special. 350's grow on trees.

Are just looking for an engine or do you want a car to build? You can get a core engine off craigslist for anywhere from $300-600. Search for the specific engine you want, not whole cars.
440, 454,455, 460, 427 etc.

Fuck I never new gmc made an elegant Camino that's pretty cool
I'd talk to him and find what engine it has it might have a straight six or a small block you wont really find a big block in a car unless some one swapped it or its a higher end model like an SS

fuck that big block shit, small block+turbo is the future

Probably has the straight six

Thanks for the info.
I'm used to driving 150hp 4cyls, so 400hp seems fucking insane from a N/A.
That's one reason why I wanted to get into this project.

I'm just looking for an engine to swap into a different car.
My buddy has an S14 shell that we want to put a V8 into for shits. I want it to be a big, loud, obnoxious engine, and that's why I'm looking at carbed american V8s.

>carburetor and turbo
the absolute madman

THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT BUCKO

It'll move but if you really wanna get big make a 496 and get around 500

I'd split from the big-block plan. You can make as much power, cheaper, with a small block, especially if you go chebby.

If you wanna make satisfactory power on the cheap, a smog-era low compression 350, with a mild camshaft, a set of headers, and no other modifications, will get you around 300 horsepower peaking around 5000 rpm, and do it burning cheap 87 octane gas. That's not going to win any impressive drag races against modern engines, but it's honestly probably making more horsepower than that motorhome 440 they used, and if you can't have fun with 300 RWD horsepower, you can't have fun.

Self-service wrecking yards are good sources of 350's. The most reliable source is pre-1987 GM full size trucks, vans, and SUV's, 3/4 ton and up. You want to avoid the half-tons for donors as they're usually 305's. If you run into a 305 with a computerized Q-jet & 7-pin distributor, though, those are high-compression motors, and so they actually can put out power similar to a 350 - but they also need 91 octane gas to survive when the computerized engine management is removed, and the heads are restrictive so the RPM range can only be expanded so far.

Everything about a junkyard truck 350 is safe to around a redline of 5500 RPM. Run a cam around 215º@.050, and you can make a shitload of power and shift at 5200, leaving yourself a good safe cushion. The lift on a cam of that size should be fine for stock springs so long as you respect the redline.

Post -96 engines (vortec) are better, because they have a nicer head design (which also bumps compression into 91-octane territory). But the factory valve hardware isn't friendly to high lift aftermarket cams - pretty much anything more aggressive than stock quickly runs into spring-retainer to valve-guide clearance problems. So you always end up having to sink money into a set of vortec heads before you can use them on your project.

Why would you say that? Majority of elcos left the factory with V8s, that sprint would be no different.

Most stock el caminos I've ever encountered where straight six it's just personal experience

Fuck there are so many engines from different companies. It's so confusing since there is no real name of the engines, and they were used in so many different applications. Is there like a chart of which engines from which companies are good for making power?
I wasn't really set on a big block, I'm taking any ideas.
Again, 300HP is still a lot to me, so I'd be happy with a 350. And like said, those are common as fuck. I'll keep my eyes out for some older trucks and stuff with 350s. Is there any difference between a truck engine and car engine? Would one be a better starting point?

Chevy mark iv bbc is the series of engines from
396
427
454
489
496
Just to name a few anythings above 454 in the mark iv family is a stroker someone made it that way
I can't tell you the name of 60s small block engine family but I'm sure someone else here can.
You always want to go for chevy in this situation since you want power cheap
Ford small blocks are good and the only really good big block for is the 460
You COULD go with a olds 455 but you will be broke before you buy all the pistons
The olds 455 is stronger then a chevy 454 because of the nickel content which also makes it lighter I believe a stock 455 weighs as much as a stock 350
If you want cheap power make a 383 small block chevy which is made from a 350 or make a 454 big block chevy

elcaminos.com/ec/ec_total.htm

I know that you stroke a 350 to make a 383, but what do you do to make a 454 bog block?

here's an example of engine I built for less than $1000.
I got a used Dodge 360 that came out of a truck off the local classifieds for $200. It looked like shit, but the guy said it ran good and didn't smoke when he pulled it and I believed him.

I bought a gasket kit for $75. Pulled the pan, and checked the bearings, no scratches or gouges so I put it back together. I changed the oil pump while I had the oil pan off.

Compression in these is like 8.5 at best but I decided to live with it. The stock cam is wimpy so I put in a comp 268H and new timing chain.

I put on an old edelbrock performer intake off ebay and a used Holley 3310 750 carb.
With a set of headers I figure it's 300-325hp and runs great for what it is.

Chevy made big block 454
A small block and a big block or 2 totally different engine familys
Small blocks came with sizes between 283 to 350 big block chevys came with sizes from 396 to 454 you can not use a small block chevy to make a 454 they are totally different

Nothing. It already is a 454. You stroke a 454 to make a 496 or bigger.

To muddy the waters the 348 and 366 are big blocks, but yet there is a 400 small block.

Holy fuck nigga never looked up the production years from 67 up I've only deal with 65s to 67s after that there pretty scarce
But like I said personal experience

BASICS! BASICS DON'T CONFUSE HIM
plus did chevy make a 400 too I knew Pontiac did but did chevy too?

No no, you want a 440 or a thick cast 400. The LA small blocks are great engines and with some work can spin to the moon, but if you want a street strip car, a 400-440 will let you have more of your power band in a street useable area of revs. For example, to get a 318 to about 600hp NA, you have to do some extreme things with compression, fuel, and cam whereas a 440 can get there on a mid effort build. I'd go bigger if the car allows. What's the shell you are looking to swap into?

I make more power with my NA big block in all areas of the power and over any mopar small block with a turbo or procharger. I'd bet itd be cheaper as well.

That's a very very safe pump gas build. A set of domed pistons to take it to 9.5:1 and maybe some aluminum heads would get you into the 400 range on stock rods and crank. The cast rods are good to about 500hp before they start really breaking, the crank a bit more but id swap rotating assemblies at that point.

Is there any difference between a truck engine and car engine? Would one be a better starting point?

The main difference is in the cam grind, which you would be replacing anyway. Some blocks are more desirable than others (2-bolt main vs. 4-bolt main, high nickel-content vs low), but if you're not planning on building it up for high-RPM use, none of that stuff really matters at all. Generally the heavier-duty blocks are found in trucks.

You can go searching for a snowflake factory high-performance 350 with forged crank and big-valve heads, but if you're not going to try to push the motor even to 6000 rpm, it's not really worth going on that wild goose chase. The prices on a lot of those motors anyway has been driving up by circle-track racers operating under rules that require OEM factory parts.

Trucks are more likely to have a 4bbl intake & carb. 3/4 and 1-ton trucks were exempt from a number of the emissions regulations, so they often have no EGR and kept mechanical-advance distributors and non-computerized carburetors much later than the passenger cars, which can simplify things. But trucks also came with bigger, heavier flywheels & flexplates than the passenger cars (the blocks all have bolt-holes for both starter locations), and their accessory belt configurations could be a bit more sprawling.

Generally speaking, 2bbl motors had smaller-valved heads and tamer cam grinds than 4bbl motors. Generally speaking 2bbl motors are more likely to have 2-bolt bottom ends and be made of cheaper metal.

Quadrajet carburetors are actually quite tunable, but no one will blame you if you get a square-bore intake manifold and replace it. I prefer Holleys because I would rather change jets than metering rods, but there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the design of the Q-jet, and finding the right set of metering rods & right amount of air-door preload (hint: MORE) for a given build is usually not that hard.

Chevy had a 400 small block in the 70s yeah.

They also had a 400 big block which was really a 402. In 1970 they bored the 396 0.030 over to 402, but in smaller cars like the Nova and Camaro they still called it a 396 because of the reputation it had, meanwhile in Impalas they called the same engine a 400. Clear as mud I know.

Yeah I wasn't trying to be a smart ass, or I told you so. After I made that post I was curious because my personal experience was the opposite. I just linked it because it was easy.

Oh alright, I'm stupid
but I'm not that stupid

Wow thanks.
Of course I'd be replacing the cam, so that's not a main issue for me.
But it's good to see that truck engines are more durable
awesome, that's pretty much exactly what I'm looking to do

This is one of the best threads on Veeky Forums I've seen in a while. Thanks everybody for all the help and info they've contributed.
This is the first I've really gotten into American engines, and it's pretty cool how you can make so much power from something with barely any computer or anything behind it, and how you can just add all kinds of things to an engine and make it crazy fast.

That's the glory of old engines with the right parts you could hit 800 hp on a stock block

Yeah, chevy 400 built in much of the 70's, usually find it in full-size sedans and trucks. They have siamesed bores and some unique cooling difficulties due to that, with some notorious heat cracking issues at high mileage around "steam holes" in the deck. The supply of good 400 blocks is rapidly dwindling. Some aftermarket outfits make brand-new, beefier 400 blocks & crate motors, but it's usually not worth the extra cost for the whopping 17 extra cubic inches vs. a common 383 stroker.

And if I would recommend and engine go with a 496 bbc around 9.5.1 cr with some decent heads and you would hit 500 to 600 easy for the same price as a 454
Just go with 4.310 bore and a 4.250 stroke and you'll have a nice torque monster that you don't have to review to 6k to get power

Fuck now that jogs my memory I heard about the 400 a while ago when I was researching siamesed bbc. I feel dumb

And where would I be able to find one of those? There are only boat 496s on CL, and I don't feel like modifying one of those to work in a car.
Would I have to make one?

Bam
jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/5554442521.html
350 sbc and a manual
I could probably build that, right?

Absolutely, although you could do cheaper if all you want is an engine donor. Generic Remanufactured 350 engines start around $1500, and crate motors claiming around 300 hp can be bought for $2500.

Also be aware that the truck 4-speeds are giant bulky monstrosities that will never fit under the floor of a passenger car, and that a granny-gear 4 speed is going to be extra-wide-ratio.

desu that's probably a lot of metal on that truck and I could probably get like $400 for scrapping it, but I get what you mean.
I won't get that exact one, since I probable won't even start working on this for a few months.

Also that sucks that the truck transmission is put of the question, but I can't say I didn't expect something like that

You'd have to start with a 454 block get it bored and replace the rotating assembly it's pretty much the same price Definitely if it's the tranny I'm thinking if it might be a Muncie m22 I don't think t-10s had straight cut first gears if it is a Munice m22 that alone it worth 1000 bucks in its current state plus those trannys are almost indestructible

If it's an m22 it's gonna be a close ratio and will be tits on the street

Scratch what I said about that tranny did some research it's still a Muncie but it is a truck tranny

You'll want to look at 454 big block Chevy engines because the aftermarket is by far the cheapest compared to Mopar and by a lot compared to Ford.

The 8.1 Vortec can make decent power, but the aftermarket is a bit more limited. I've built 500 hp 454s using cheap, stock peanut port heads that you can find on smog engines. All it takes is some minor porting, and aftermarket cam/intake/carb/headers.

A 5.3 or 6.0 Vortec from a newer truck or SUV will make big power on a budget too. You can turn 500+ hp out of a stock bottom end 6.0 with stock heads (if they're the good castings) just using a big cam/intake/throttle body/headers.

As soon as you go Mopar the cost goes way up. Same with Olds, Buick, Pontiac and so on. You have to pay huge to get decent heads, and most are old and need a full rebuild and machine work. Ford can be decent with a 460, but dollar for dollar you probably won't beat a 454 unless you have a good Ford connection or parts stockpiled.

The ad claims it's a granny-low transmission, all the truck trannies are wierd.

But if he can scavange a T-10 or muncie for it that would be wicked.

In then end he'll, in all practical ways, be stuck with the choice of a 3-groove saganaw or a TH350. Trying to scrounge manuals to go behind small blocks is a pain in the ass. you end up with a T-5 built for an early 305 that blows up as soon as you put it in the car.

Easy to just give up and buy a ratchet shifter for the automatic.

That's the thing when going manuel you either get transmission made of glass spend 10 years finding a muncie at a decent price or go with an auto
Buuuttttt I do have a Muncie I would let go of its an m21 that I can't use anymore

Reading on wikipedia though, all the cars that came with those are still expensive as hell today, and to buy the engine alone is still like $5000.
Where the fuck would I find one?

Find a totaled truck you can find them in junk yards but you'll still pay a bit for the engine but then you got alot more wiring to deal with if you get an efi

Here in the mid-west a Gen III 6.0 is $1500-2000 from a business as a take out. The 5.3 is about $500-750 cheaper. You can also find them on Craigslist from private party sellers. I bought a 5.3 from a Silverado with 122k miles from a private seller for $800. For that I was able to take everything I wanted including a complete intact engine with accessory drive, small parts, and intact engine harness and ECU as well as the fuel tank and pump. You'll have to pay a decent amount more for a Gen IV or for the aluminum block versions of the 5.3. Personally, I prefer the 6.0 because it's large bore and can take a lot of the good factory and aftermarket LSx heads that flow so well. I've seen 600 hp using CNC ported factory L92 castings on a big cam 6.0 stroker.

As for 454s you can find those cheap all day. They put them in everything from trucks to boats.

I've seen 5.3s for as cheap as $250, but I doubt you get a complete engine for that price and you might not know what you get. Ask that one user that was dumb enough to buy a hydrolocked 5.3. Always pull the oil pan and do a quick inspection. Most of the engines are going to need a basic hone and new rings and bearings anyway. But keep in mind the more parts you don't get the cost adds up quick when not a package deal. Coil packs are expensive. ECUs and custom harnesses can be expensive. Accessory drives can be expensive and hard to fit some cars. So can oil pans or exhaust manifolds or headers. As for a trans, T56 is the go to manual option, but expect to pay $2k all in by the time you set one up complete with a clutch and all the small parts. If you go with a 4LxE trans you'll need the trans ECU too. A TH350 or 400 can go behind a Vortec with a simple $50 billet crank spacer.

Bump

bamp

You can buy a 290hp 350 crate engine under 2,000 dollars. Or a 450hp 454 for under 10 grand. Straight from the factory and never used

>290hp 350 crate engine
those are well known as miss-matched garbage

Stay away from anything with less than a 4-inch bore.

Really? I wasn't aware of that. I've never had to buy a crate motor, my old man has collected 100+ cars and trucks over the years just for parts. What exactly is wrong with the crate motors?

the 290/350 has too big of a cam for its low compression heads.

That doesn't seem like much of a problem. I can buy double hump heads for a Chevy small block for like 300-400 dollars rebuilt at my local machine shop.

>doesn't seem like much of a problem.
It's a big problem for people who don't want to swap heads on their fresh crate motor.

The things I would do to find a few gmc V12s

You'd have to do that if you had to pull one out of an old pickup or something anyway. Besides swapping heads is easy

Old motorhome. I paid $1500 for a motorhome, tow home and the about $100 for a replacement alternator and it worked fine after. This was used as temporary housing for about a year though.
If what you want is the engine, you can pick up one with a ruined interior for less than $1000, all you need to care about is the engine runs or is easy to get running (unless you can get the whole thing for less than scrap price, in which case go nuts). Class A and class C motorhomes came with 454s if you're looking for Chevy. Class C will be easier to pull the engine from, A you either need to hack holes everywhere or start severing seals and pull the front off.
Depending on what you need, if you get a wrecked interior unit you may be able to rip off the body and then part out the rest-things like generators, drivetrain parts, gas tanks, rims, etc may be of interest to other people doing car projects or as replacements for their motorhomes. Many of those old generators are hard as hell to get parts for, so a running or fixable to running or even a parts generator can bring in a bit of money from the sale of it.

You don't need a block from the 60s. Ford 351w ran well into the 90s, the 460 ran forever, 302s (289 stroked) ran until 95. These engines are like $100 in a junkyard or Craigslist.

Truck engines are great. HCI swap and you're golden

>swapping heads is easy
buying a properly matched crate motor is easier

That's because camel humps are outdated junk. The Gen I Vortec heads are by far better. You can get them from SDPC for not much more than your price and they're already drilled for old intakes and machines for higher lift. I'm surprised your machine shop still rebuilds camel humps. Those are basically reserved for numbers matching with the cost of machine work and cheap aftermarket options. BTW I had 882 castings on a rule limited circle track engine and I had them running as good as that old camel hump garbage.

Depends on the pricing. My local machine work prices are through the roof so building an engine that needs a block cleaned, fluxed, bored, decked, and cylinder head rebuild is more expensive than a cheap crate. And if the crank needs ground undersized? Forget about it no one will even touch that job around here anymore. And why should they when you can buy new cast cranks that are better than stock for $150. And you can usually buy remaned blocks a bit over machine cost not even accounting for buying your own parts to build one you sent in for bare minimum machine work. Top with fact no local shops even want to deal with individuals only race teams or fleets because the individuals don't make any money.

I drive a 66 coronet and I have to explain all the time that it doesn't have a 440 in it