Pre-jesus

Yes, prior to a few centuries ago, most people were intelligent enough to intuit that the Creation infers a Creator.

Now they're idiotic enough to think they "evolved" from a "missing link".

‘There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. He called out, “Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.” But Abraham said, “Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us.” He said, “Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father’s house— for I have five brothers—that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment.” Abraham replied, “They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.” He said, “No, father Abraham; but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.” He said to him, “If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.”’

Then Paul stood in front of the Areopagus and said, ‘Athenians, I see how extremely religious you are in every way. For as I went through the city and looked carefully at the objects of your worship, I found among them an altar with the inscription, “To an unknown god.” What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.

When Jesus descended into hell after the crucifixion He liberated all the righteous souls who had not know God.

>quoting OT passages as "proof" that there was an Afterlife

That passage is quite vague, hardly evidence of an Afterlife. Also, you know, there is this little something, called 'interpolation'...

>corpses

In other words, not conscious torment.

>Pre-Darwinian people had a "more accurate" understanding of life origins

Here's your reply.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight people, were saved through water.

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

>the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead
The New Testament couldn't possibly be more clear

Do you want the salvation on or off?

>it's another "hell is a physical place" thread

Heaven is the embrace of God's love, while Hell is the rejection thereof. Why can't anyone understand this?

>still using teleological "proof"

I didn't think that there was enough autism in the world for people to still use the "I'm too fucking dumb to understand it, here's my shoehorned-in answer" argument, but I guess Paley really did a number on you folks.

>If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. (Mark 9:43)

you never die
fire never goes out

That is Gehenna/Hell/Lake of Fire

worm does not die
fire does not go out

That's hell

You are more than your corpse; if you were to die right now, your corpse would sit there, and you would be in Hades.

You think you evolved from exploded nothing.

There is no way to make sense to you. Or of you.

>"the Bible says there is fire so there must be a lake of fire!"
I bet you think Jesus was trying to teach His disciples how to cultivate mustard seeds.

As another poster already commented, the use of the word 'corpses' suggest the mutilation or desecration of the lifeless bodies of God's enemies as a form of humiliation and punishment. It fits with the historical context, unlike your gasping at straws and trying to use the extremely vague wording in the passage to build an entire fiction.

You think a magical fairy created you through a convoluted series of events culminating in the sacrifice of this deity to himself in order to save people from himself.

Open a high school biology textbook, that's a good place to start.

last I checked, no one had made claims about how life started. Just about how it has changed over time.

>Jesus, Paul, and the church has taught the hell was a literal, fiery place of punishment for sinners for centuries
>Now that moderns have poked holes in the idea of a loving God issuing eternal punishment for mortals; Catholic apologists back peddle to say hell is merely self-imposed exile from God's love
I'm assuming lying on behalf of the church doesn't count as a sin in your mind

Those things are the same though. God is the source of all good things so when people reject God all they are left with are bad things.

*tips fedora*

>he doesn't understand the figurative language of the Bible
>he thinks I'm catholic

Pls tell me more.

But the verse says corpse and says nothing about torment. Just because the authors of the New Testament alluded to Isaiah in describing Hell doesn't mean he was speaking of hell.

If you die, right now, you would leave a corpse. We would see your corpse. It would be dead.

You would be in Hades, very much you, very much conscious, very much in torment.

And awaiting a new body for your eternity in a lake of fire.

You think you "evolved" from exploding nothing.

There is literally no hope for you.

Thinking there is a higher ordered being who made everything is the most rational thought ever.

>Origin
origin didn't use literary analysis to say what is or isn't figurative language, he just said that anything that isn't logical is figurative. also should mention he's a heretic

Evolutionists retreat like cockroaches when the light is shined on them.

Isaiah 66:24 “And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Mark 9
Jesus Warns of Offenses
42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 where

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.

Jesus quoting Isaiah.

First, that's a false dichotomy, it allows you to brandish together active punishment for sin and self-imposed isolation as "the same thing". Second, the pagans used the same "the one is the source of all good, evil is merely the lack of good" arguement while the apostle Paul was still blaming "the devil" for derailing/delaying his ministry in his epistles. Third, the church and Jesus have always taught the independent existence of evil and hell, before CS Lewis and Robert Barron began fading it out with "it's just the absence of God".

abiogenesis has always been a separate topic from evolution via natural selection.

It's always been the proof that macroevolution is false.

You just won't admit it.

>heretic
Non-believers can't be heretics, dibshit

>also thinking heretic is still a meaningful insult despite the current year

>higher ordered being/uncaused cause
>must be my christian god am I right
>damn it feels good being retarded

Only major god proof worth considering is the ontological and that hinges on an omnibenevolent god, which even your apologists will regress on when pressed. You can't prove that man's concept of god was a designer or uncaused cause any more than I can prove that it wasn't.

What light? The only creationist commentary has been circle jerking and posturing. I guess you don't know what light looks like though with your head that far up your own ass, though.

In the Divine Comedy the limbo is the 1st circle of hell where you have good pagans who didn't know jesus and other people who weren't baptized for other reasons. As thats their only sin, they aren't physically punished. Instead, they are tormented by the fact that they will never know God. People in the limbo include Homer, Aristotle, Caesar, and pretty much all the based people who lived before jesus.

Oops never mind, thought you referring to me not Origen. Sorry.

When Origin is considered by christians to be a heretic it's silly for them to then turn around and use him as their theological grounding for non-literalism

I never declared whether evolution was true or false. just that it was a separate topic from how life got started to begin with

are me. I have made no other posts in this thread

Christ Yeshua payed ransom for the sins of all humanity, past present and future.

So lost souls prior would have seen Heaven open after the death and ressurection.

Not that anyone is completely misinterpreting Christ Yeshua's teachings or anything, but when you associate what happens to people when they die (heaven or hell) by other people's opinions you miss the point of your own Salvation.

Not only this, people act as of they have full authority of who goes where after death, and act as if they are totally knowledge as to what happens to people before Christ, atheists and Christians alike so it is important to trust God over what people on the internet have to say

Harrowing of Hell.

The fact that this was not the first response is asinine beyond belief.

You despicable retards. Collectively gtfo.

It's always amusing when non-believers try to posture themselves as authorities on Christianity. Jesus spoke of a lake of fire where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" an expression which is meant to convey superlative regret and despair. Again the idea is that the damned will be tormented primarily by the fact that they missed the opportunity to be with God because they foolishly chose to be separate from Him and now in the afterlife realize the gravity of their error. Yes the devil is an agent in creation but his work is simply the negation of the good God created; God says don't eat the apple, devil says eat the apple, God says love your neighbor, devil says don't love your neighbor etc... The devil doesn't have anything "original" to him, he is simply a reflexive contrarian and this is why he doesn't have any "substance" because his entire modus operandi is simply a reaction to what God does. All the positive things in life are a result of God's love and an unrepentant sinner spends their life fleeing from God because they've been deceived into believing the lie that they can be fulfilled apart from God. When they die, the illusion that fulfillment apart from God is possible is destroyed and that person is left "weeping and gnashing their teeth" that they believed the great lie.

They flee from the light because their deeds are dark, and they fear the light will expose how evil they are.

Which is true.

The less cowardly of them will push out into the light anyways.

So you're Hermetic? Why do the teachings of Jesus differ so vastly from the teachings of Hermes, Thoth, Siddhartha, etc?

>What happened to the souls of those unfortunate enough to be born before the arbitrary coming of Christ?

A seraphim handed them a rosary and told them to take seat and there they remain stuck in purgatory for one and bit eternities saying penance.

What created the creator?

The Creator is not a created being, but an eternal being.

Nice logic.

It's revealed truth from God.

If you don't start developing a taste for revealed truth from God, you will eternally regret your foolishness.

If they behaved good they went to heaven

This is why people are dropping your shitty beliefs in the modern age. That shit may have worked on first century goat herders but it's not making any sense to us. Pagan origin theory at least relates to the big bang. Buddhism is like the fucking matrix. Your bullshit just says some wizard popped into existence, yet didn't, and demands that we all bend over for him and in many ways defy nature, which he created to be that way (turn the other cheek to a threat, cut the tip of your dick off, etc)

Before Jesus, everyone went to Sheol, but there was a huge gulf between the righteous (faithful to Yahweh) and the unrighteous (unfaithful to Yahweh). After Jesus, Christians go to Heaven, non-Christians go to Hell. At the Last Judgement, both those in the good part of Sheol and Heaven go to the New Jerusalem on the New Earth, whereas the inhabitants of the bad part of Sheol and Hell go into the Lake of Fire.

At least, that's how it was explained to me. It doesn't fix the problem with the uncontacted tribes, but that was the answer.

So much fucking mental gymnastics here you'd think it's the Christian Rhetoric Olympics.

Yeah man just remember to pay caronte the fee or you'll have to wait 1000 years before you can have your hot new body in hades

What the fuck did God explode from?

You're implying the big bang makes no sense, but that is purely because you don't understand it.

Saying "from nothing", or "what was there before it" does not make any sense because the big bang started space-time. This means neither time nor space existed before it, so asking what happened before is like asking what was my reply to you before it existed. The answer is, nothing".

"Harrowing of Hell"

Which Pope made that up?

What happens to dead babies?

Do they go to hell? If not, why?

I don't understand why none of you just think for a second, and ask yourself: "how do I know this, and how did the pope who just thought this up one day know it".

The obvious answer is "I fucking don't" and the logical conclusion is to apply the same questions to every scripture from every theology/philosophy. Apply Occam's Razor to all of it and you'll see just how illogical belief in any religion is.

Deism and Buddhism are the only respectable theologies since they're not religions. Are they even theologies?

What about, for example, remote tribes of people who have never in their lives been approached by missionaries or have any knowledge of Christianity/Islam/other religions.

What about, say 100 years after Jesus supposedly sacrificed himself for our sins, when the tiniest fraction of people knew about him?

Were all of these people born to burn in hell for all eternity? Is this an omnibenevolent God?

Better question is how do we keep falling for the Eternal Semite's schemes to ruin the Old World?

If ignorance is a valid ticket out of hell based on your sins, does that the tree of knowledge was a placebo?

I think you're about 1400 years too late on that one at least.

The Big Bang Theory was proposed by a Catholic priest...

The theory of Atoms was devised by a greek pagan

Here's an entire thread on why that's a dumb over-generalization:

Whereas the Big Bang theory was literally proposed by a Catholic priest

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

Regardless, I was pointing out the irony of that poster (probably you) trying to mock Christianity by saying 'well at least paganism lines up with the Big Bang!' when that theory was actually proposed by a Christian.

Religion is literally a meme

This is usually the point where christians pull out the new age bs like "the light of jesus christ is within all of us" or "it's all part of god's plan" because there is absolutely no explanation for why a supposedly universal religion only popped in a single place while the rest of the world was left in the dark.

Yeah, you can prove miracles could not have happened without even bringing up science, so as to avoid the problem of "God falls out of the realm of science".

Just say, if God is omnibenevolent then why did Miracles only happen in one place? Why did God raise Lazarus from the dead but no one else? Why did the Lepers get special treatment? Jesus could raise the fucking dead but he decided he wasn't done partying so he made some more wine?

pious condescension: the post

>did Miracles only happen in one place?

they didnt thats why they traveled from place to place

>Why did God raise Lazarus from the dead but no one else?

he raised lots of people from the dead like

The widows son
Luke 7:13-15

Jairus' daughter
Matthew 9:25

then all the people that rose during his crucifixion
Matthew 27:52-53

that then when he rose himself he gave all the believers the ability to do the same

>Why did the Lepers get special treatment?

he didn't he wanted to send the man to the priest to prove a point instead the man told everybody what happened and caused a crowd

"Oh no, my beliefs are being challenged. I know! ill use the same meme response as always! Genius!"