Is he a good businessman?

>9/11
here (you) go

yup.

>implying there is anything wrong with fast food

stay blue pilled

You mean businesses person?

How do you know he identifies as a man of business?

He became a billionaire by inheriting property that appreciated in value.

but thats wrong

No it isn't.

Trump has created 515 businesses and only 11 of them failed.

>created
Kek

>I DONT KNOW WHAT PANDERING IS PLEASE RAPE MY FACE

I know what pandering is, I also know that he's obviously bad at it. Wonder what else he'd be bad at?

pass the hot sauce

>implying he is his own campaign manager

You and I both know no photo gets publicized without approval. But keep on throwing those red herrings.

He can't pick a good campaign manager and he's supposed to be able to pick a good cabinet?

You're under the assumption that his campaign manager is bad. Let's see, 2 point lead by the political powerhouse professional Clinton 2 months before votes are cast. I'd wager that is extraordinarily well for somebody new to the field, no? Fast learner.

when trump does well it's because clinton sucks.

when clinton is ahead it's because trump sucks.

neither of these people is achieving anything except when they keep their mouths shut. Whoever speaks the least wins. That's not an accomplishment, that's following the rules your kindergarten teacher taught you.

That's something of an exaggeration. If you look at his portfolio of companies and properties, the most you really can say is that he has clear talent with real estate. As for everything else, I honestly don't see him over- or under-performing other equivalent companies. Keep in mind, a lot of his ventures are acquisitions or new random shit, meaning that the rate of success for anyone would be near the floor. It's also extremely unfair to attack him for his businesses declaring bankruptcies, as that's (1) absolutely what you should do when a business is failing, and (2) a very legitimate strategy to restructure a bad company when you've made mistakes, among other things.

Keep in mind the same media calling Trump a failure is the one propping up Twitter, Tesla, and the like as "great" businesses. Gotta take things with a grain of salt.

Dang, an actual voice of reason in a politics thread.

he's a dipshit.
a successful businessman should have a success rate higher than normal.

by definition.

so excusing his record because it's average is retarded. I specifically cited his average record as evidence of his lack of greatness.

also the dumbass doesn't realize it was Trump that made declaring bankruptcy as a business move ok.

a lot of people still hate him for that. Declaring bankruptcy just because it's cheaper than paying your vendors is theft. It's also the reason almost no bank in the US will lend him money.

>a successful businessman should have a success rate higher than normal.
he does

dollar-wise he's beaten the average by a long shot.

failed-business-wise he's a bit worse than average.

I forget sometimes I'm on Veeky Forums where people unironically think 99.9999...% of startups fail in the first day and a half.

>dollar-wise he's beaten the average by a long shot
so you're agreeing with me?

>start ups
Ohhhh I get it now.
You have absolutely no idea what a business is, and so you think the guy that promoted well is a good businessman.

I'm moving the goalposts for you.

My argument was that by far most of his businesses fail. Including a large number of his real estate plays.

if you want to argue he's made more money than average I'd agree with you. /pol/ was passing around an article the other day though that said he actually would've made more money off his initial inheritance if he HADN'T done anything with it. Just stick it in an index fund. So from that perspective he sucks at making money as well.

if 93.75% of the businesses you launch fail in less than three years you're doing a lot worse than average.

>fail
how has a business failed if he has made a bunch of money from it?

do you mean they've been unincorporated before 3 years?

would you dissolve a business that's still making money?

if that's your argument then he's an even worse businessman than I claimed.

so he made money but he's a failed business man because he unincorporated when they stopped making money?

no, the business failed because it stopped making money and was dissolved.

He's a poor businessman because that happens to his businesses more often than is usual.

neither of us knows if he made money or lost it before those businesses failed. Generally you don't shut down a business you've made lots of money on just the year before though.

it's possible he's failing businesses as a tax write off, but it seems unlikely since he stuck his stupid name on every one of them. Failing on purpose would seem to hurt his brand.

>500 businesses
>One of the greatest businessman of all time?

Yes.

money.cnn.com/2016/03/16/news/companies/donald-trump-ethics/

>successful businessman
>can't outperform grandpa's S&P 500 index
Keep drinking the koolaid, morons.

>Built up the skyline of multiple US cities and employed 1000's of families?

Yes.

>employed 1000's of families?
kek

I imagined mom, dad, and five little brown kids all out working construction on the newest Trump resort.

he didn't employ families any more than Walmart does.

Lots and lots of Mexican families, sure.

Any moron with a billion dollar inheritance can plop down a building or start failed businesses that employ (temporarily) lots of workers.

A successful businessman grows his wealth, presumably at a rate faster than the market index. If you can't even beat the market, then by definition you're below average.

Below average =//= successful.

Therefore, indisputably, Drumpf is not a successful businessman. There really can't even be a debate about this.

He's alright. His annual ROE is 10%, for comparison Buffet's is 20% and Icahn is 30%

It's true. People like him employ people and make the world go round.

Who cares about the ethnicity? He provides jobs for Americans - you virtue signalling moron.

Incorrect.

If I gave you a million dollars you wouldn't turn it into a billion within your lifetime.

Protips - Watch ESPN 30 for 30 broke.

>There really can't even be a debate about this.
he's a better than average entertainer though.

only question is if he's really a clown or just pretending. Probably some of both I guess.

he started off with more than a million, didn't he?

Everyone declares bankruptcy as a business move. His shareholders declared because Trump casinos couldn't pay back the loans they took out to build the casino on time.

Trump still uses a lot of leverage. His assets aren't liquid.

Why are you using virtue signalling like that

Trump cares about ethnicity, supposedly. And so do most of his supporters. Infact that's one of the main platforms of his campaign.

>Everyone declares bankruptcy as a business move
nobody admitted to it before trump did in the 80's.

it made huge headlines, there was a lot of talk of charging him with fraud.

a lot of boomers and gen X still think of him as a dirty thief because of that. We remember when people didn't do that. And we remember when Trump was the first one to come out and say that he was doing it.

>If I gave you a million dollars you wouldn't turn it into a billion within your lifetime.
I never claimed to be a successful businessman, and you're correct that I probably could not outperform the market over a lifetime. Not many can, but some do. Those people are called "successful."

Drumpf failed to beat the market, therefore Drumpf is not a successful businessman. His returns are actually worse than mine, because I invest in indexes.

The ONLY thing Drumpf does better than me is cheat on his taxes. I actually have to pay my fair share, while most experts believe that Drumpf pays zero income tax. He's therefore very successful at fucking the country in the ass.

>Trump takes 1 million dollar loan from father for business development purposes
>Trump turns 1 million dollar loan into billions

Get real.

Trump is not top 1% when it comes to real estate. He's in the top .0000000000001%.

This is an incredibly stupid argument. He took the million to buy the property. His father also then gave him the money for renevation, something like 40m. Then less than a year later he inherited his father's already successful business when his father's name was dragged through the mud and he resigned. Do you literally know shitall about your candidate?

Hindsight is always 20 - 20.

Of course Trump could have sat on his ass living off his father's estate.

He didn't. He built up America.

He took action. Employed tens of thousands while building his dreams. He altered the landscape. Built up cities. Improved America.

Beating the markets while sitting on your ass... it is to laugh.

Fuck you.

>He built up America.
aren't a huge number of his properties actually in other countries?

Protip - He's built up the world.

Does that make you feel better? GD what a loser.....

Fuck off to leddit. Trump beats the market many times over. How many people can turn a 1 million loan into a billion dollar empire?

>taking his word for it
honestly the guy's as bad a liar as Hillary is.

he regularly exaggerates his wealth and earnings.

>He built up America.
No he didn't. He ran some businesses. Some were profitable, others failed.

Guess what? People do the same thing EVERY FUCKING DAY and have for the LAST TWO HUNDRED YEARS. Drumpf ain't special. He just started at square 20 instead of square 1 because of his daddy.

The question isn't whether Drumpf built some buildings (he did) and cheated and lied to his workers and subcontractors (he did) and cheats on his taxes (he does). The question is whether he's a successful businessman.

Not beating the market =//= successful.

You want to know the SECRET to outperforming Drumpf? Buy VOO and never spend another second in your life thinking about it. You could LITERALLY be braindead and still outperform Drumpf.

Ok, then show us how you did your calculations then?

Back to r/SandersForPresident you go.

Kek

>2016
>being this triggered
We get it son, you're out of material and out of your league. Just head back to the safespace echo chamber that is /pol/ and I'm sure you'll feel better quickly.

I didn't calculate anything.
I'm suggesting he started off with far more than a single million dollar loan, and ended up with far less than he claims.

nobody knows though because he's the only one that can say what happened.

and to be fair he's been caught lying about his net worth so many times it's a bit sad.

like I don't care if he has 3 billion or 10, it's still way more than I'll ever have. Why can't he be happy with it? I figure his dick is really small or something.

>t beating the market =//
Again - you don't get it (and you never will). It's not about what I personally do when it comes to investing.

Some people shoot for the moon.

It's obvious that isn't you... hahaha just buy VOO....

The money that people earned while working for Trump's failed businesses*** is still real $$$.

You either get it or you don't (you don't).

Trump is a businessman.

People like Trump make the world go round. Risk takers, true believers, etc. Sometimes people like that fail... sometimes people like that create the iphone.

>WE CAN'T EVER KNOW THE TRUTH BUT LE DRUMPF (WHAT AN EPIC NAME! COINED BY LE CURRENT YEAR MAN, I SAW THIS ON FACEBOOK!) MUST BE A FAILURE ANYWAY XD
Fuck off.

>sometimes people like that create the iphone.
Trump did that?
cuz honestly all I've ever seen of his is a shitty hotel in vegas. One of thousands.

If you know he's lied hundreds of times before, why believe him now?

you're retarded I guess.

So why should I believe you?

>Thinks that jobs grow on trees.
>Thinks that the government creates jobs
>Looks up Nigerian government
>Nigerian Government would absolutely love to create F/A-18s like the USA

You will never understand business and risk :)

in a perfect world you'd already know this about a political candidate you support.

but it's all there in his Wikipedia article with citations if you want to read about him.

>Trump is a businessman.
Yes, but not a successful one. Fucking retards like you can't even stay on topic. Take your meds, kid.

You're the only claiming that his businesses preformed worse than the market. Do you actually have anything to back that up or is it just "le DRUMPF is a liar xD"?

>projecting this hard

the problem with /pol/ isn't just that you're retarded,
it's that you honestly don't understand other people at all.

ok

How is he not a successful businessman?

>You're the only claiming that his businesses preformed worse than the market.
I never said that.

you're either very drunk or very stupid.
you tell me.

Too bad I tell the truth.

Too bad I employ other people.

Too bad I'm more successful than you will ever understand.

I hope you find the truth someday.

Goodbye.

>Do you actually have anything to back that up
"Trump Worth $10 Billion Less Than If He’d Simply Invested in Index Funds"
finance.yahoo.com/news/why-probably-better-investing-donald-233020366.html
>How is he not a successful businessman?
If I lost $10 Billion when I could have just dumped my inheritance into VOO, I'd shoot myself in the head. Drumpf does it and you think he's some god.

Hey, pal I know by the way you're writing these you haven't started a business before.

Businesses are insanely difficult to get right. Getting just one right puts you above the majority of the population, then you keep on adding more and more successes. Although he's had failures, all it means is that he's swung more instead of posting on a Budapestian singularity hub.

kek'd

Actually, dumbass, he consistently adds failed businesses so he can claim the depreciation and avoid income tax.

Try reading the news some time.

Why did you pick 1982? That seems like a fairly arbitrary date.

>Hey, pal I know by the way you're writing these you haven't started a business before
I'm probably the only successful business owner itt

perhaps the only one on this board.

>He thinks I wrote the article.
Do you need medical assistance, user? You seem a bit imbalanced....

So you think it's fine to randomly pick any date looking back and use it for comparison? Why not start it at 2000 or 2008?

probably because 82 was the year he inherited his dad's millions? Just guessing.

Trump had been running his father's company for 8 years at that point.

As the author explains, he picked 1982 because that's the earliest date there's published information about Drumpf's net worth.

Don't worry, I know you won't read the article. People like you work very hard to shut out the truth to preserve the bubble of delusion you create for yourself. Hence the reason why you started hurling ad homs as soon as a couple intelligent people showed up and started telling you facts that you couldn't fit into your preconceived, prepackaged view.

But there's been many different estimates of Trump's net worth since then. Why pick the earliest?

>Why pick the earliest?
Um, because its the best reflection of his skill (or lack thereof) as a businessman. FUCKING DUH.

But he was a businessman long before 1982.

But we don't have data before then.

Honestly, are you retarded? Please answer because I'm not going to have an argument with a retarded person. I have some personal standards.

I can guarantee that I am more successful than you, since you are a broke liberal arts major desperately still clingy to the change of Bernie winning and making the American taxpayers pay off your six figure college debt.

I think you're missing a couple important points both pro and con.

if his empire was bankrupt then he started with nothing, he lost his daddy's money. So not only did he suck really bad but he also did really good. Making billions from nothing.

there is no real evidence of that either though.

Also I notice user blames his company shareholders for declaring bankruptcy, but credits Trump with the financial success. Seems like we can't have it both ways, either he is responsible for both the successes and the failures or he isn't responsible for either.

Hey, bud. You're angry right now, I can tell. Step away from the keyboard and go get some air.

I don't know why someone would spend so much time debating like this.

The SPX is not the benchmark for businesses, only for wealth management firms. The only benchmark for businesses is: "Is your net positive? Yes? Then you're the proud owner of a profiting business."

Let's hear your story, lad.

I'll tell you mine just to bring down the heat. I was born in a village in Austria, immigrated to NYC and got a nice public school education. Dropped out of college and started my a logistics optimization company because I was good at quick calculations and didn't have anything better to do. I sold out after a while for a nice 8 figure paycheck, because I got bored. Started a few small clothing lines to cash in on /prep/ for the layman. Got those shops automated now and making a steady income (as steady retail can be). Tried a few other ventures into manufacturing, but things just didn't work out.

Now I'm wrapping up on another project that's getting bought out by a generalist.

Business is a hit or miss desu. All I'm saying is, Trump (or anyone for that matter) shouldn't be judged on their failures. Because let's be honest, the guy who's failed 45 times but managed to succeed 5 is better than the guy who's tried and succeeded only once.

You must of heard the new genius pop-sci theory? Where it's not that they're geniuses innately, it's just that they're creative and work on more projects than anyone else.