Searching for a good and cheap german car

So can a decent fox body. Both run the entire spectrum from junk to beast and so with a little knowledge and patience you can start with one that's actually better than the seller realizes and there's lots of availability for parts whether its for maintenance or upgrade.

>german Pontiac Firebird
The Firebird and/or the Camaro
>MX-5
Z-series BMWs are your closest bet aside for getting a legit MX-5. Those things are quite cheap and plentiful in the EU.

I know that MX-5 are pretty cheap and availaible at huge numbers, but I'd still rather go for a german car.
The BMW Z series is well known to me of course (fuck, and Z3 was standing in the road on my way to school, and I fell in love with it) but since they're much more rarer and expensive they're not really an option.

Chevrolets and the like (muscle cars I think) are cool but I don't think they fit me because they're too macho for me.

Well, there's always the E24 6 series coupes that came with different flavours of delicious straight 6, all pushing out at least 180hp which, if I remember correctly, is more than the Camaros got out of anything short of the 5.7 litre "350 SBC" V8, all the others like the iron duke, the V6 and the 305 V8 were sub 170hp.

just buy a e36, cheap and plentiful, easy to fix, smaller engines tend to be reliable.

Actually, if you do happen to buy an older BMW, just make sure they're at least 2 litres in displacement or aboce, the smaller engines tend to be extremely limp dicked and overstressed for the shit they stuck them in. The 518 E34 is a very fine example of a car you should avoid. It sips down gas like crazy, is under powered as fuck and very over stressed for that hulking chassis.

Anything with the 2 litre straight 6'es are fine though as they generally have enough torque to keep even the heavier bodies moving without breaking a sweat and they tend to be extremely hardy engines too.

and they look great
thanks for the advice kind user
I've gotten a lot of recommendations by now, noted them all, but what about older Mercedes, Audi or Opel, (and VW)?

Audi and VW went downhill after the mid 90s.
The latest Audi I'd own would be a B4 80 or C4 100, same with VWs from a similar year (anything before the Mk4 Golf).

Porsche Boxster 986

They're dirt cheap, they can be reliable once you do the IMS strengthening job.

You can get a base 2.5 Boxster for under £3k

>Mercedes
Filed with archaic engineering and LOL VACUUM LINES that tend to fail every now and then. Generally considered more "reliable" than BMW's of the same age, but I don't really see it. Parts might be a bit more readily available, but not cheaper. They also tend to suffer a lot of the dreaded sameface syndrome.

>Audi
Some gems in the rough, but they are kind of a bitch to work on at times and can be somewhat maintenance heavy. The Audi Coupe comes in Quattro and looks like a, well, Audi Quattro, the legendary rally champion. THe Coupe is the baby brother of the Sport Quattro and can be a very fun car

>Opel
Aside for the old Senatros which could come in delicious 24 valve straight six and 5 speed manual, I'd stray away. The Omega might look nice, but it's a bag full of gremlins. They can be extremely temperamental and hard to keep together.
The Senator still is very sturdy and can be a surprisingly fast luxobarge even today.
Rest are just shitboxes.
>VW
Always wanted to stay away from these and have succeeded pretty well to this point. They're more or less shitboxes, aside for that Corrado which looks good, comes in either supercharged 1.8 or as VR6 and can be a very fast ride. They are still a bit temperamental and can suddenly become very costrly to own. THe Corrado is still a bitching looking car for a VW and I wouldn't mind owning one for shits and giggles as a summer cruiser. Also, that wing you see there, yes? It moves.

Since you're actually IN Germany most of us are going to tell you that on a first car budget you'd be dumb to get anything other than a BMW

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>B4 80
wow thats some old as fuck cars
they're literally nonexistant except for old people that never bought a new car in germany, but I'll have a look at them.

Why did they both go downhill?
care to explain?

user, the idea of owning a Porsche is the basic wet dream of every german, but I don't think I can afford one.
A Porsche for under 3k sounds unreal to me.

Opel is completely out of the race with that I guess.
Did you know that people in germany often call Opel Popel (=booger)?
One of the reasons nobody here drives them actually ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>VW is shitboxes
wew wouldn't have expected that, but I don't like VW aswell

your point with Audi is that they're more difficult to keep running, right?

The way you described Mercedes doesnt seem to be too bad tho.

Thanks for the briev overview user
Why? [spoiler]I'm pretty inadept when it comes to cars, I seriously don't know, I thought old Mercedes were fine cars aswell[/spoiler]
A dream come true user, but there must be a reason they're so cheap?

>there must be a reason they're so cheap?
They're base models that are desperately in need of a 1k+ service before they suffer a catastrophic mechanical failure

I can't even doubt that

Once you do the IMS job, which is around £550, the car is extremely reliable.

You can buy a cheap portable ramp for £30 and do the oil changes yourself. Once you change the oil frequently, you'll find the 2.5L engine to be an extremely reliable unit.

For years I was afraid to buy one because it was so cheap, but once you actually get into it and take the necessary precautions, you'll find it to be quite a well built car.

-Get the IMS done (£550 inc labour)
-Get a boroscope job done (£70 inc labour)
-Do an oil change and filter change (£90 you can do it yourself.)
Once you do all this, the car is rock solid.

When buying, make sure to see the car start on a cold morning. As long as the smoke isn't blue or black, it should be fine.

Also, look under the oil cap, if you see any residue, walk away. If it's clean, youre safe.

VW (and by extension Audi) made some very very questionable design decisions, and their quality went down severely. Electrical failures up the ass.

And the reason those Boxsters are cheap is because they're seen as "not real Porsches" because they're not 911s, and because they're known for IMS bearing failure.
The IMS problem is overblown, but it's still something to keep in mind and the first fix I'd do if I were to buy one. Also kinda counter-intuitive is that a higher-mileage car has a lower risk of IMS bearing failure.

mileage / kilomiteage ?

Nothing really wrong with older mercs as long as it isn't like 70's old, that's where old age starts to chew through them and bring problems that come with old age.
Mercs from the 90's are fine, if a little boring to look at and drive and with you being in Germany, I believe everyone and their mother has one, you being probably a young lad that wants a "sporty" car wouldn't want a car that the neighbours granny owns 7 of as daily drivers.

Ever heard of the Ford Probe? This thing is actually a Mazda in a very clever disguise, but don't let that let you down. The engines, being Japanese, are relatively easy to work on and reliable. Parts shouldn't be a problem either for these things. They aren't all THAT fast through, I believe a good condition E36 320 could give these things a really good run for their money and a 325 would outright decimate this thing.

Still, it's probably a bit more unique than a bog standard Benz or BMW and they have decent enough handling too.

That particular one has 124k. Most boxsters of this age are high milage.

Test drive a 2.5 boxster user, it's a kickass car for the money. The 2.5 engine was actually much more reliable than the later 2.7 and 3.2 engines.

Go test drive one user, you'll see.

youtu.be/1xIpbJ6Gfqc

Just watch it. This could be you.

kauf nen Golf wie jede schwuchtel und verpiss dich, neutrip

Now I want a Boxster...
DAT FEEL

>tfw a family member had a Boxster but he sold it
Took me for a ride once, surprisingly not back-breakingly bouncy or anything. That car felt great.

Wew that sounds pretty difficult user, but thanks for the advice and I guess I'll really consider that car.

What's IMS tho btw?[spoiler]tfw I'm an idiot ;_;[/spoiler]

Is it now only the design of them or is there other trouble now?

Germans don't own old cars at all, my grandpa had a big Audi from 2000 until 2014 and then got a fresh VW.
I was in an old Mercedes only once at that was in spain, my professir drives one aswell.

Old Mercedes aren't that much of an old persons car, and I guess they can be pretty cool aswell.

Mercedes is still kinda a luxury car, while BMWs, especially the newer ones, are well known as "turk cars".
Seeing how you all describe them as reliable I consider them now tho.

I really don't want a non german car user, even if they look good, or I'd just take an MX-5

I'm going to search for one
Oh fuck yes I want

>Golf
Dann doch lieber Fahrrad.

Their design is still questionable, and by that I mean the designs for their components, not the exterior.
Wear items that are nearly impoossible to replace by yourself and all that kind of shit.

It's the intermediate shaft. In the original design it wasn't particularly strong. That being said most people have had the stronger IMS installed in their cars. Any working boxster you come across, you can ask the owner if this has been done, if it hasn't you can haggle to get the car for less.

Don't let the horror stories put you off, I can confirm that it's blown out of proportion, the car is really a reliable thing once cared for.

>nobody here drives Opels

what the fuck are you talking about. almost every car around here is a golf or an astra.

Ah, planned obsolescence?
Okay, I'd like to stay away from that.
What about the two Audis that other user recommended? Are these okay?
The part connecting the wheel with the front axis?
The fuck?
Isn't that extremely difficult to repair?
(And extremely dangerous?)

Golf, yeah, but there aren't a lot of Astras where I live.

I'm the guy that recommended the B4 80 and C4 100, the Coupe Quattro that the other user recommended is basically a B3/B4 coupe. They share platforms and engines.
I prefer the B4 sedan and wagon though, as the FWD versions can be converted to Quattro relatively easily since the floor pan of the two versions is the same.
You can get the i5 (with or without turbo) in both, which sounds fucking godlike and can make ridiculous amounts of power. They used production blocks and heads in the rally cars, so the street cars sound pretty much the same, just quieter.

All model year 1997 through 2008 Porsche Boxster, Cayman, and 911 models with the M96 or M97 engine have an Intermediate Shaft (IMS). The crankshaft drives the Intermediate Shaft, which in turn drives the camshafts in the cylinder heads.

If the IMS breaks, doesn't that mean I can't steer anymore? Why didn't they fix that?

No, the IMS refers to a part in the engine bay in the Boxster. If it fails, it could take the engine with it, but it's an overblown issue and easy enough to prevent.

It's also one of the reasons they're so cheap, and it's nothing to worry about if you know your shit.

No, there's basically a spinning steel beam inside the engine that drives the oil pump and camshafts.
THat breaks and the whole engine stops working and could receive catastrophic damage.

In the pic, the IMS is the part that the chains are connected, I believe.

the quattro looks like it's straight out of initial.d

If I have the right car in mind, the i5 is a fucking epic car, but again, I don't know if thats really my price range.
(Can you link me one?)

again, what about maintenance or issues?
efficiency?

It's nice to learn some more about Audi since people don't really talk a lot about them.

Can you show me user?
Also, since it's going to be my first own car I'm not really sure I can say I know my shit.

the chains are connected to 3 steel beams user

In the description of pic related it seems that the one above the crankshaft is called IMS.
(when it comes to cars, googling in german can lead to better results, kek)
Now I can see it in your pic aswell.

Well, that's an really unusual part to be a weak point in a car.

And you can get that fixed for just 500$?

That's an original Quattro, which are fucking badass cars.

Pic related is its "successor", basically an 80 coupe. Can be had with the inline 5, but if you're going for the Coupe, make sure to get a Quattro one right away as converting a FWD Coupe to Quattro AWD is nearly impossible.

The inline 5 should be in cars badged 2.2l or 2.3l, either 10V or 20V. You should be able to tell from the engine bay, as its intake manifold has 5 runners.

As for maintenance, they're getting quite old but the body is galvanized so rust shouldn't be a major problem, and the drivetrains are insanely overbuilt so they last nearly forever with normal maintenance.
Anciliaries tend to fail though, think water pumps, alternators, electrical components and the like.

I'm listing the cars recommended to me by now:
-BMW E30s, E32 (750 lang model), E31 850CSi, E30 (like 325i), Z series (too expensive), E24 6 series, E36, at least 2l of displacement.
-Audi B4 80, C4 100, Quattro AWD, B3/B4 coupes, i5
-Porsche Boxster 986, Porsche Boxter with 2.5

Am I missing something?

Looks pretty solid, but also kinda boring.
Can you recommend me some better looking Audis?

Also, due to the lack of knowledge on my side, I think I listed all things twice and triple, so could you help me thin that listing there?

>Audi B4 80, C4 100, Quattro AWD, B3/B4 coupes, i5
i5 refers to the engine type, it's not a car's model number.

The first gen Boxster is internally known at Porsche as the 986, so a 986 with the 2.5l engine is a regular first-gen Boxster.

I understood that by reading your posts, I'm basically just listing criteria or things to search for.
(Like AWD isn't a model number)
That's what I need your help with, you listed lots of different things that limit the Audis to some models that I can choose from but since I don't really understand a lot I need some clarification

Kinda makes sense that the first gen is the cheapest

Basically any Audi that doesn't have a number in its "name" (i.e. A3, A4, etc) was available with the i5 engine. The ones with letters in their names should generally be avoided, as they switched their naming scheme right around the time they started to go downhill.
The exceptions are the S2/RS2 and the very first generation S4/S6, as they are the "hot" versions of the 80 and 100/A6 respectively, which are absolutely badass cars but hard to find and usually expensive (especially the in-collaboration-with-Porsche, wagon-only RS2).
These came with the 20V i5 turbo engine and Quattro AWD system, with a few other upgrades and different bumpers. They're great sleepers because they're legitimately fast, and no one expects a boring old Audi to be fast.

>E32 (750 lang model), E31 850CSi
STOP, HALT, SEIS, TOMARE, ALTO

What kind of an absolute madman would consider these two good first cars? You're being played by the noose here. Those two are some of the most extravagant cars made by BMW in the 80's and 90's, come with huge V12 engines, loads of electronics and headaches worth a thousand sleepless nights.

They are extremely expensive, difficult and nerve wracking to own and maintain. I would steer the fuck away from those things and stay as far away as possible unless you are either extremely confident in your wrenching skills or are loaded as fuck.

Those things WILL pull mad pussy though and among the right circles you might be heralded as a hero, a martyr and/or a very brave individual, that much I can promise you.

>and no one expects a boring old Audi to be fast.
>a boring old Audi
Indeed, it's cool to have a car that nobody expects to be fucking epic, but these are literally the stereotype of boring old and "I've got it from my parents and it was free, so why drive it until it falls apart"
From what I've seen I can't really warm up for these cars because the point where audi went "downhill" seems to be the point where audis started to look like high-class cars.

I'm still hoping there are some good ones there tho.

>and headaches worth a thousand sleepless
nights.
sounds worrying, why?

>might be heralded as a martyr
that.. doesn't seem like a good thing for me

Ideas came from
and he mentioned they're expensive

the second part of his post completely countradicts your statement tho, so I guess he's a troll.

I'm kinda curious now tho, you seem to know about these, can you tell me a bit about those?
About maintenance?

>E31 850CSi
wow, that's some space age car

Sure is, but they're not for the faint of heart.

Similarly, the Porsche 944.

Both can be had cheap and look incredibly slick, but shit WILL break and shit WILL be expensive to repair, especially if you can't do it yourself.

focus.de/auto/gebrauchtwagen/youngtimer/tid-27844/probefahrt-bmw-750-i-e32-koenig-der-draengler_aid_846398.html
>BMW 750 e32 King of the pushy drivers
>the first far that concurred with Mercedes for the left part of the road.

wew

tfw hidden lights aren't a thing anymore

but yeah, I wouldn't want to have a car that is difficult and expensive to repair especially since I'm going to study first and will not have a lot of money.

New list:
-BMW E30s, E24 6 series, E36, at least 2l of displacement.
-Audis with AWD and i5, everything before letters in names
-Porsche Boxter 2.5

I don't really get the picks for BMW and I'm still searching for good looking Audis in that area, please help me Anons

Actually, ever thought about Saabs or Volvos?

Audi S3 8L

Pros:

>Discreet and understated, but beefy and solid looks
>4WD
>6 Speed
>Good mpg since it's only a 1.8
>Proven and reliable engine if taken care of
>Decently fast stock with 225hp, but easily tunable
>Cheap as shit to buy
>Nogaro blue

Cons:
>It doesn't look sporty or "special" if that's your thing
>Audis are needy and neglecting maintenance will fuck you HARD
>It's not as "fun" to drive as a BMW or any RWD car. No hektik skidz for you
>Finding a good unit can be a bit of a challenge

And you can get the very same car with a TT body if you happen to be homosexual.

I can't really seem to find a Porsche Boxter 2.5 below 5000 Euro

The whole post was met with disinterest but the last line made me kek
The car seems pretty modern, that's a plus, but it really is more of a family car and therefore totally not what I'm looking for. The pros look good tho.

If there's a version like this there must be a non family car version aswell, I guess.
Is there, kind user?

That's both odd and unfortunate. I wonder why they're more expensive in mainland Europe as opposed to the UK where they're dirt cheap and in great abundance. At the £5k+ range, I'd probably start looking at putting £1.5k more an getting a 987 Boxster. I saw a really nice black one for £6k the other day.

Absolutely. The TT is based on the same platform and has the same engine and 4WD, and since you can only buy one if you're gay, it's unlikely it will be considered a family car.

While searching for a 986 I've found some crimes against humanity

wait, that's the TT?
It's like a stretched VW bug
holy shit that's really gay as fuck.
Any less gay cars from Audi please kind user?
there must be

Stop dreaming and get something you can afford to maintain.

one of the cheap BMWs it is then, I guess?

Under 3000€: BMW E36/E34/E30
Over 3000€: BMW E46/E39/E24/E31

Thank you user,
Is there some infotable showing all BMW series?

I can't really make sense out of all the numbers without reading into every single one