Patriotism

>being proud about something you didn't do

I discard my heritage because I honestly just don't care about it at all. I also don't care about wars my country engaged in.

What a horribly cynical and ignorant assumption. Your ancestors would not be proud.

>how should i live my life?
>i know, i shall dedicate it fully to the well-being of my country so my descendants can be proud of me one day
said no one ever

Said literally every single person in your lineage until you.

this delusion

You have a hilariously romanticized view of past generations.

Speak for yourself, bud. Are you a liberal by any chance?

Because no-one fought to keep their families safe, their children. You really are worthless

The people you claim as your own are not your ancestors.

Your ancestors were likely dirt poor farmers who didn't know anything outside their backwater village.

I'm not him but liberals are overly compassionate people who are always whining about 'muh oppression' and 'muh social inequality'.

I don't care about my ancestors or my countrymen in the present day. I don't think that's very typical of liberals.

Was your grand- grand -grandpa perhaps happy and willing to fight in WW1, bleeding and risking his life in trenches thinking "this is worth it because my descendants will think high of me one, day"? Fat chance, i bet he was shitting his pants and cursing his own country that mobilized him and sent into bloodbath.

It's funny how the same people laugh at Christian traditions, while being completely submerged in national myths. The Church was a real, tangible thing for almost two millenia, while most nation-states are idealist conceptions pasted together from various historical periods. Narratives and defined canons are essential for nationalism to work. There really isn't a firm dividing lime between religious faith and national pride, we just perceive it as more rational.

I'm proud that the system which I support and live in can guarantee a high quality of life for the vast majority of its constituents and protect my civil liberties. I am proud of my countrymen for not abandoning such a system.

The system under which I live is the best in the world at providing the best possible life for the greatest number of people.

Why did you pick WWI, in which many countries literally used nationalism to fuel recruitment where there are countless diaries and poems of soldiers maintaining a romantic view of their nation?

They were probably shitting their pants and hated being there too, but that doesn't mean being told "Your homeland and way of life is on the line" isn't a motivator.

Except for the fact that the majority of WW1 soldiers were proud volunteers happy to serve their country.

Especially the junior officer corps burned through well educated, altruistic, young men.

Of course, after experiencing the horrors of war, many of them may feel they made a mistake, but generally most were proud.

Ironically Liberals are quick to shit on their heritage due to their compassion. Some white people whipped some black people to pick cotton 100 years ago so they have to disown their entire lineage. I'm not even the same guy defending the ancestral pride but I understand why its important. It helps develop a national identity which is crucial to actually being a nation.

A lot of contrarian teenagers in this thread.

People have not always be so selfish and individualistic as you. Previous generations looked after their neighbours, communities, and by extension had a love of their country.

Guess what? Men and women readily volunteered for service and work during the wars, because they - most of them at least - loved their countries and shared its values.

I am proud of my ancestors fighting in the wars they fought in, and for standing up for the values which my country exemplifies.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, sed dulcius pro patria vivere, et dulcissimum pro patria bibere. Ergo, bibamus pro salute patriae.

Edgy

>I am proud of my ancestors fighting in the wars they fought in, and for standing up for the values which my country exemplifies.
>Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, sed dulcius pro patria vivere, et dulcissimum pro patria bibere. Ergo, bibamus pro salute patriae.
in my i dont know how many years on this shitty site this is by far the most fedora post ive read

>not feeling common attachment to shared experiences within your culture

Do you have friends OP?

I could've picked any other hellish war from the past that was fought in the name of nationalism.
In the beginning maybe, because they were young stupid fucktards who thought real war is some 19th century romanticized picnic they brainwashed their minds with since childhood.

The fedora here is your use of 'fedora' as a legitimate rhetorical device.

How exactly is an appropriate latin quote fedora? Especially when it's in favor of nationalism and shit that edgy atheist fedoras tend to think themselves "too mature" for.

friends are spook

So is solitude

>Is there a bigger meme?

do you hate the concept of society or something?

>I could've picked any other hellish war from the past that was fought in the name of nationalism.

And you picked the one with basically the best case for an actual genuine feeling of nationalism in the fighting populace.

Nationalism is an extension of tribalism, a sensation that almost every human being experiences. Having 'your group' and 'their group' predates nation states, and it's only quite recently that individualism has become so emphasized over contribution to one's community.

It's obviously more nuanced than "I'm gonna go die JUST because I love my country" but the nation to many - especially before the 60s -reflects their common values, their communities, the people and things they love.

>Your ancestors were likely dirt poor farmers who didn't know anything outside their backwater village.

and this is bad because some modern airhead thinks borders are stupid

newfag, desu

I guess it's really only applicable if your country is a bit shit.

You could use the "we have a proud history" or "we once did the HYPEST shit" as motivation to help improve/change your country, or to gather support toward such a cause.

But in this day an age where in the first world one place really isn't that different than any other, nah. Nationalism isn't relevant, and won't be until the next war that doesn't take place almost entirely in some third world shithole.

>muh human nature
just because animal packs slaughter one another doesn't mean humans should do the same

>in the first world one place really isn't that different than any other

this is precisely because patriotism and nationalism have become dirty words and everyone insists that mixing shit together produces the best results despite mountains of evidence to the contrary

What are you even talking about?

I'm just stating the obvious, nationalists like to talk about their glorious ancestors, when the the people who actually did shit were not related to them in any way,shape or from.

I think in part nationalism is a product of the social contract. There is obviously a biological factor of an inherent bias towards one's own race, but I imagine a large part of it is the mutually beneficial relationship between the state and the citizen, and a loyalty towards said relationship, as that relationship meets basic needs such as food, shelter, etc.

I have ancestors who were her in the 1620s, another that fought in the American Revolution, my great-great-grandfather was a railroad magnate and both sides of my family have been wildly successful. I'm goddamn proud of the country my ancestors helped build.

>mixing shit together produces the best results despite mountains of evidence to the contrary
True. Unification of Germany was a mistake.

but you didn't build it personally

>I have ancestors who were her in the 1620s
> my great-great-grandfather was a railroad magnate
you are litterally proud of your familiys part in a genocide....good job faggot

And I never said I did.

Yep.

>Muh Indian genocide
Do you really believe they were a peaceful and unified ethnicity before da ebil white man showed up? They were slaughtering each other far before a pale skin ever stepped foot on the continent.

sounds like projection

>uniting one culture under the same banner is a mistake

????

Sure.

>being proud of your culture is a bad thing now

spot the globalist faggot

Some nationalisms are dumb, others are not.
In the end it's a collectivism that can and often does serve the interests of group and thus individuals within that group.
Majority of people are too dumb to embrace meme philosophies that are farted out by people with too much time on their hands.
Religion, nation, family, those are simple creeds to live by and they enable a succesful society in varying degrees.
Don't be a half-baked pseudo-intellectual. As they say, a little bit of knowledge is often more dangerous than being ignorant.

>Germany
>one culture
lol

you still killed almoste every last one of them...
yeah not shit they werent peacefull before...but the yat least...you know...existed...

>he uses the word globalist

retarded alex jones follower spotted

so do you have anything to say or do you just insist that no one can be patriots/nationalists because clearly no one had ancestors that gave a shit, despite many people having ancestors who in fact did have a stake in their nation, or actually fought for it?

you're right it's about 50/50 german and muslim now

>implying a schleswig holsteiner and a bavarian have anything in common

Do you really think warfare can equal the deathtoll caused by old world disease and genocide?

I'll meme you.

>this delusional
you are either shitposting or in need of help

and they still do exist. We gave the red man casinos and shiny trinkets for their land and they took it. Fuckin' suckers. Believe it or not morality is not what drives political dealings because its not practical to put another people over your own.

Are you implying globalism doesn't exist?

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Do you think people who claim achievements like science or technology were related to the people who made them? Are you personally related to Isaac Newton, are you related to Leibniz?

Your ancestors were pawns and mere cannon fodder.

>We gave the red man casinos and shiny trinkets for their land and they took it.
[revisionsim intesifies]
yeah no...

>America
>not a nation-state
We can claim one of the oldest nationalist movements in existence. Fuck yourself.

>Denying the steady march towards globalism by leftist politicians

>were related to

in the way they all contributed to the success of the country, absolutely

We didn't kill them, we absorbed them you idiot.

But they're not your ancestors, the definition of ancestor is
>A person from whom one is descended
You're not descended from any of those great thinkers or scientists so don't claim their achievements as their own.

He made it alright argument, all you did was claim that he doesn't want borders and was a dumb libral. 10/10
>"UR ANCESTURS R SHIT MINE R BETTER EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO PROOF ETHER STATEMENT BEING TURE"

Are you denying the fact that half of them literally sold their land for pocket change? Of course other land was taken by force. The land taken was more than likely taken from other tribes in conflicts before the IRA and other acts. Why is ownership by right of conquest valid when everyone uses it but white people?

Patriotism is necessary because some nations(peoples) lend themselves to ideologies and ways of life other than patriotism more than others as due to human evolution different peoples vary biologically and in nature. Therefore to have any beliefs or ideology whatsoever dictates a type of national preference or patriotism. In order to defend the free market,capitalism and all the liberties of the west we cannot allow the west to be taken over by a people that value none of those things.

>You're not descended from any of those great thinkers or scientists so don't claim their achievements as their own.

you don't have to be a great thinker or scientist to contribute to the nation you live in

people are proud of their ancestors for different reasons, all of them valid

>He made it alright argument, all you did was claim that he doesn't want borders and was a dumb libral. 10/10

i didn't even say liberal once, regressive

t. Totally not a samefag

Being proud of your country is retarded. Loving your country and working to improve it is not.

>how to have 100+ posts in a matter of hour: the thread
Good job OP

And its not just because I live there, this whole cosmic lottery concept is total bullshit.
Its no coincidence that I'm Irish, my mother's Irish and my father is Irish and I am the bearer of an ancient heritage. Its as stupid as saying I could have been born a frog.
My Irishness dictates many different things about me. If I was African for example I would most likely be mentally retarded, If I was Middle Eastern I would have an iq below 80, but I am European and this is the single most important thing in making me who I am.

>you don't have to be a great thinker or scientist to contribute to the nation you live in
>people are proud of their ancestors for different reasons, all of them valid
If your ancestor is not a great scientist,thinker,engineer,militaryman etc. then you cannot claim their achievements as done so by people who constantly shitpost about 'their people' being better than another.

Sure, you can be proud of your own ancestors but don't bring up the past accomplishments of strangers to justify superiority or anything else.

Not an argument.
>"and this is bad because some modern airhead thinks borders are stupid"

>Sure, you can be proud of your own ancestors but don't bring up the past accomplishments of strangers to justify superiority or anything else.

so you're basically telling me accomplishments as citizens of a country don't matter because you aren't related by blood

even though these successful people helped each other by living in the same society and supported the same nation with that success, being proud of other citizens as a patriot of that nation is wrong

patriotism is wrong because patriotism is wrong?

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares(2) we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest(3) began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots(4)
Of tired, outstripped(5) Five-Nines(6) that dropped behind.
Gas!(7) Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets(8) just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime(9) . . .
Dim, through the misty panes(10) and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering,(11) choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud(12)
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest(13)
To children ardent(14) for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.(15)

Wilfred Owen
Thought to have been written between 8 October 1917 and March, 1918

You're now changing the subject. My whole arguments this thread has been centred around ancestors, I have not talked about citizens.

But I'll humor you anyway, you are your own person and your achievements are your own.

Wouldn't it be retarded logic if I said I was better than you because some random guy,who I didn't even known, invented something amazing?.

Patriotism,Nationalism and even your conceptions of these other great citizens are all abstractions and have no basis in reality.

To all people here only talking about achievements, what about culture?
Should people be allowed to acknowledge and value their culture?

Yes, but its an entirely different matter when people begin to claim they're culture is the best culture because culture is always changing.

>Wouldn't it be retarded logic if I said I was better than you because some random guy,who I didn't even known, invented something amazing?.

pride in itself is nonsense, that's the whole point

it's part of what keeps societies functioning, that unit cohesion

if you keep believing you are nothing and you came from nothing, you will BE nothing

pride in ancestry, patriotism and the practice of nationalism might be a bunch of crap that is only slightly grounded in reality, but it's a great foundation for people to work together and achieve more than they would have on their own

Culture is always in constant flux but it should definitely be acknowledged and valued.

Patriotism and Nationalism can he helpful in social cohesion but if people get caught up in too much you get shit like the total brutality of the Eastern front in WW2, because people give no fucks if they're fed bullshit about being superior.

>people give no fucks if they're fed bullshit about being superior

it's amazing isn't it?

from a nation on the edge of collapse to fighting most of the developed world in no small part because they believed they were great people

There's a difference between /pol/ tier nationalist shitflinging, (aka "Muh country is better than your country") with loving your countries history an where you come from. It's healthy in fact, to focus on the things about your country you like and want to improve. There's nothing wrong with even a citizen of the worst African shithole having a sense of belonging and connection with ones country, because it's about your lineage, not "accomplishments" you didn't take part in.

Patriotism is fine. Ethnic nationalism is retarded. Just take a look at modern German history.

So in other words patriotism and nationalism are bad because those values can lead to being Nazis?

I said that patriotism and nationalism are useful but if encouraged it leads to atrocities, the eastern front was just used as an example.

This nihilistic individualism is why Western culture is dying.

>Ethnic nationalism is retarded. Just take a look at modern German history.

it's not like the germans are the only people that have ever focused on promoting themselves and their culture to achieve things

that's basically been the gold standard for empires since ever

Except the Romans who literally didn't give two shits about Roman culture and just copied everything from Greece