/r6g/ - Rainbow Six General

I am going to imagine Caveria is that weird girl all the other defenders never talk to as she cleans her pistol

Nah, the weird one is Twitch who just sits alone and when anyone starts talking to her she just starts rambling about her drone

>implying Blitz and Bandit don't take her out clubbing since she can appreciate the complexity of the speaker and lights setup

Anyone know how rank works?

>implying any French girl is going to trust some Germans

If it's tied at 3-3 it goes into overtime for two rounds, ie first to five. It'll end 5-3 or 5-4. Otherwise it's first to 4.

give her ash's guns and give iq's guns to ash

>implying Twitch has the social skills not to

>how to fix Smoke
Put the ACOG on his FNG instead of the Mac11, and take away his nitro. Increase the damage on the first tick and the first tick only for his smoke bombs.

>Jager & Mute have a bromance for their love of technology
>Jager being an engineer is highly intrigued by Twitch's drone build
>Mute constantly jams her drones when she's working on them
>Thatcher constantly whispering "Do it Gordon. Do it now" into Mute's ear when the drone is jammed.

PLEASE
BUFF
TACHANKA

>plz

This has been my desktop wallpaper for ages now

>Smoke and Pulse sit around all day on drugs from Bandit
>Pulse tries working out some kind of wonder drug of acid and lean hoping it will let him see though walls
>Smoke just does it because he likes it

>adds the memey-ist operators to date
>A fucking crossbow
>A crossbow would suck in the favella
>Suppressed interrogation pistol for dank interrogation of criminals :^)
>Eye patch
>Berets
>Skull face paint

What in the fuck is this shit

BOPE

>When your squad is getting killed, but you're just Doc

it's mine now

it's hilarious is what it is, i love it

>when the entire team behind you is dying and you're just Montagne

ftfy

What new reveal do you think they will add tomorrow? I hope it is another operator update.

Anyone else having problems with the game failing to bring new players in between rounds on casual?

I'm on Xbone so I'm wondering if it's server strain from the new players or something?

>tfw all my buddies already have a 5 man squad plowing through new players in casual without me.

>ubi said they altered the lighting in some patch
how? it's still just as hard to see as it ever was. it's like the operators all have fucking migraine vision.

>Castle runs around the corner after you magdumped Valk for the kill
>he sprays a whole magazine at you while you finish reloading, because lol shit game where switching weapons won't interrupt reloads
>gun him down having taking 83 damage from his spray

Nice game siegebabs

HOW TO BALANCE RB6:Siege

Nerf List
>Thermite
Remove regular breaching charges (makes him rely on team to get anywhere, less solo bullshit) - Add additional operators who can breach reinforced walls in some way, albeit a DIFFERENT way

>Ash
Remove ACOG from her guns

>Rook
Almost impossible to "balance" without entirely destroying him. His ability is entirely passive and great, but his overall performance (MP5 and P90) sucks ass. INDIRECT NERF by making other operators more desirable and obtaining balance

>Pulse
Revert last patches changes - Return to old radar blip style scanner, but increase the speed of which those blips occur (not real time, but faster updates)

>Nitro Cells
Nitro cells have an arming period - can not be immediately detonated. 2 seconds must pass before Nitro is armed. Will return nitro cell to what it was intended to be - a trap device (Since they would have just made it a fucking grenade that doesn't stick to walls if they wanted it to be a grenade). Indirectly buffs IQ and Twitch by a HUGE margin, Shield Users by an amazing margin, Thatcher by a small margin. -- Lower volume / distance of audible beep.

>Skillbeard
Reduce damage shield can absorb to 5-6 shots. Shield absorbing damage results in a recoil style "jump" of crosshair (The shield is mounted ON the gun, remember. Lot of kinetic energy in a bullet.)

>Valk
Remove Nitrocell. Keep rest as is.

>MP5
>sucks ass

>Ash
What? No. Attackers should get ACOGs on all Rifles/LMGs they have, Ash doesn't need a nerf at all.

BUFF LIST

>IQ, Twitch, Thatcher
Rebalancing Nitro Cells gives these users a huge benefit of being fucking useful and de-trapping the facility.

>Blitz
2 speed 2 armor Operator. GOTTA GO FAST. Increase flash range by a small margin.

>Montagne
Regardless of whether or not nitrocells are rebalanced to include a timer - Montagne can absorb explosive damage from the front while shield is extended. Nitro detonates at a range that would normally be a kill, but does 60 damage instead.

>Doc
Can top off team mates health - Cap it at 75, same as a DBNO revive

>Castle
Double reinforcements to 6 from 3. Leave them exactly as is. he can plant them fucking everywhere.

>Tachanka
Give Blackbeard style shield on turret that absorbs all the damage.

>Attacker Recruit
Give recruits TWO frag grenades, as this is essentially their "special ability." They are basic bitch operators who have the skill to join Team Rainbow - they just aren't specialized.

>Defender Recruit
Give Defender Recruit 2 wall reinforcements - it makes ZERO sense why he has 1 wall reinforcement right now.

>All Recruits
Allow customization of weapons as an unlockable once you have all the core characters.

>complaining about thermite
>complaining about ash
>complaining about Rook
>complaining about valk when you already have an entire segment on nitro cells

What are you on about?

>Blitz
Shields should not go fast period, theres a reason FBI recruit is 3 armor
>Castle
Still a shit operator that will now do even more harm to their own team mates by blocking off every fucking where and locking everyone in
>Recruits
Recruits don't need to be fucking balanced what? No body plays them unless they went AFK on the op screen.

>confirmed for never having used 416C, MP7, MP5K, 9x19VSN, 9mm C1, or MPX

Ash's pick rate is 15%. The community is saying she is more desireable than other operators by a wide margin - that is to say, she is better than other operators. This isn't new either, she has always been in the top of the charts. She is in need of a downward balancing. to bring her in line. Removing her ACOG would go a ways to doing that.

>buff list
>Thatcher
Confirmed retard. Holy shit. You probably weren't even here before they nerfed his EMP range.

>buffing recruits
For what possible reason.

>ash
becomes shit
>thermite
can't remember the last time i used normal breaches on thermite
>nitro cells
i hope you enjoy having no way to deal with shields consistently
>blackbeard
becomes useless, both his guns are shit, and become unusable once receiving fire

doing that nerf to ash would make her suck as much ass as mute does. maybe even more

I always pick breaching charges for Thermite. I need to get to places, niqqah

Are you fucking serious m8, the MP5 has low recoil and stupid high fire plus ACOG. The P90 might need a small buff, but get the fuck out of my face if you don't think the MP5 is great.

No she doesn't are you retarded? God I fucking hate how people think the pick rates are what defines OP or not. Ash has a good ability and good guns, she is not OP. Don't bring down operators to be shit with the others, buff lower performing operators to give more choice.

Stop. The reason ash is good is because of her tiny hitbox and Speed 3. I know for certain that she's highly picked on consoles because she's almost impossible to hit, but that's a console thing that doesn't extend fully to PC.

Otherwise, it's not the ACOG that makes here good, are you dumb? She's fast, has good guns, and an ability that makes her even faster. The only way to "fix" ash is to make her Speed 2 Armor 2, but then she's just Buck.

>taking away the ACOG
I can't get over how dumb this is.
Also, your stats are wrong.

>Blitz
How else could he be good. His entire Operator video is him gotta-go-fasting dudes with his shield / flash combo. It'd make him a viable choice.

>Castle
I've never had problems with Castle in the way you people bitch about. I just tear it down if it's in the way??

>Recruits
>having the default operator that sometimes the game picks for you when you join into a match that is loading should not automatically handicap your team with no special abilities and less supplies than standard operators
k.

>Thatcher
Thatchers pick rate is 8% of every platform. It's decent, not ideal. By giving him more of a purpose than just opening a path for thermite it'd probably bump him a few points

>Ash
I'm totally sure allowing her to use only red dots on her tiny CQB guns would drop her pick rate by 10 points. Exactly. It's not like people never use that attachment on her gun anyways, right?
>thermite
many people do it, and many people do it and use it to fuck off and solo. It would make Thermite less desireable as a solo pick and enforce him to stick with his team. The only way to drop his pick rate is to have more options than thermite.

>nitrocells
>not just planting nitro cells in likely avenues of attack

>blackbeard
He should not be immortal. He should be able to survive if he gets out skilled, but not just be able to ignore skill to a wide degree.

I made this just for you.

MP5K sucks for me. I always use mutes pump action. It's too weak.

>the community picks an operator in a vast majority of matches
>THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT OPERATOR IS GOOD OR THAT PEOPLE THINK IT IS GOOD!!!!!!

You are a fucking idiot. Pick rates are one of the most reliable stats, and the only one we have access to. If people are CONSISTENTLY PICKING A CHARACTER OVER ANOTHER CHARACTER, it means they prefer that character for some reason.

>"your stats are wrong"
>posts stats showing ash with 15% pick rate

are you on meds my dude?

>Thatchers pick rate is 8% of every platform
See Your buff/nerf philosophy makes zero sense. You have these ideas about how an operator "should be played", and if they're not being played that way, you want them to be nerfed so they play how you want.

Here's how to make blitz good.
>extend flash range by a bit
>FIX HEADHITBOX
Lovely anecdote about Castle, just because you have never run into an issue when the majority of the general and the main playerbase hate castle because he ends up locking people in/out of the objective. Recruits literally do not matter.
Ash is a fucking attacker, her guns are not "tiny CQB" they are fucking rifles and thus should get ACOG. Yes people pick Ash, because SHE IS GOOD. She is not OP, she offers a useful ability and her guns aren't trash. There is no reason to nerf her when you instead should buff the lower picked attackers.

You're complaining about Rook being picked too much when he's at 11%, because you think his pick rate is still 17%.

If your that out of touch with the game, I don't know what to tell you.

Thank God none of you idiots will ever work in the gaming industry.

oh wait, you will, and that's why it's shit

>im-fucking-plying I will ever have a full-time job
lmao

Why even buff Castle, he has an 8% pick rate, if you think the stats are so reliable then the only defender that needs a buff is Tachanka.

The perfect, "balanced" pick rate is 10% with the stats we have available. He is below that. Since his nerf he HAS been below that. Thatchers role is, basically,

Thatcher was nerfed because his EMP grenades could clear out the entire defender room. It was silly because any batteries, anti-grenade systems, mute devices - all that shit would just go with the toss of two grenades. He was too powerful. That is why they nerfed him.

But guess what, his pick rate reflected his power.

>PC pick rates don't exist

I pulled that screen shot 2 minutes before I posted the post. Rook has a lower pick rate because his ACOG memes don't do well on the controller, whereas with KB/M his MP5 is a rape weapon.

Do these pick rate numbers even account for the DLC characters? If not, how can we truly rely on them if we don't have all the numbers?

Having issues on PC, whenever I'm using a camera the screen flickers rapidly, it hurts my eyes and keeps me from ever using them.

Anyone know what causes it or how to fix?

they do not.

t. newblood

It's probably why they get rid of the link to the pick rates on the official site. It might or might not be real time rates.

Then why the fuck do we even talk about these numbers if they don't even have the full population? As someone who does data analysis, not getting all the numbers and facts straight irks me. If it was me, I would throw all these numbers out the window cause they mean diddly shit in the overall picture.

How to fix Rook; remove him. No operator letalone the most valuable should have a skill as braindead as "put armor on the floor." Same applies to Doc except the valuable part.

the mp5k is definitely not as good as the mp5

>blackbeard
if his shield lasted for six shots tops, and he gets jump when you get shot at, between his shitty guns, and the crosshair jump his accuracy would be non-existent the second he takes fire. meaning bb would take fire on his shield, loose accuracy and a split second later get killed when the 7th shot comes in. that mostly sounds like he's at a disadvantage when he is in a gunfight.

The thing about pick rates that you're ignoring is that really, all they mean are how often an operator is useful. For certain operators like Castle, I would never take him on Plane or Yacht simply because there's no where to place his barricades that they won't just get taken out by a breaching charge in the normal process of the game. It's not Kanal or Consulate where certain rooms or windows can be blocked off and the barricade will actually stop access to them.

An operator like Ashe is highly picked because there's no map that she's bad on. She's just an operator with good guns and an ability that's basically an improved frag grenade. It's the same as how Sledge is consistently at or above 10% pick rate because he's essentially just a Recruit with a few alterations that make him into a better rifleman.
It's not a matter of OP or not, all pick rate reflects is how often an operator is considered useful.

If we could track stats like overall operator kill-death ratios, then perhaps we could claim operators are OP if they both have a high kdr and a high pick rate. Lacking that, all we can say is that high pick rate ops are useful more often than not, which is a function of maps more than anything else.

>nerfing ops because there's no map that they're bad on
Silly.
If you wanted to see Castle pick rates spike, you could just allow him to cover sections of the Plane windows with his barricades. Even though Glaz can still see through them, blocking visibility would be improvement enough that people would have a reason to take him on Plane, where he's otherwise almost useless.

Then how do people pull these numbers anyway?

Depends on where you want the spread to be. The perfect is an even spread of 10% across the board, but if you want a healthy spread, 8-12% would be ideal. The largest complaint with Castle is, yes, that his barricades are far too easily defeated. Castle is one of the ones who should float at 10%, whereas characters like Glaz make sense to float lower than that given he is a niche character.

You get complaints with him potentially locking the objective room, but that is all part of the game.

The numbers do not account for DLC characters. You might get some stats inflated because of that (if thermite is being picked still in every match, but Buck + BB is also being picked every match, Thermites number will be represented higher than they realistically would be), but they are still somewhat reliable because out of all the "old" operators, these are the rates of them still being picked.

In the end it's still showing some characters being picked more than others. Whether or not it's entirely accurate or as representational could, really, be up for debate.

They saved the link.
rainbow6.ubi.com/siege/en-us/community/stats.aspx

>Even though Glaz can still see through
shoot through them

I hope my first point about maps where Castle has nothing useful to barricade doesn't need an explanation by the way. I hope the thread has talked enough about that subject.

>an even spread of 10%
You'd want an even spread of 8%. So castle is perfectly fine.

>nerfing an OP because they are consistently good and some OP's are only occasionally good is bad.

Please read what you are talking about. That is the point. There are going to be some niche operators who are less desirable in certain situations, which is why you won't have an even spread.

But having a character that, yes, is almost never a bad choice, when you have characters that can be an obvious bad choice half the time - that "good, never bad" operator would be the definition of "over powered." Not game breaking, not 360 no scope hax.exe tier rape fest, but they are overpowered compared to the rest of the roster.

Instead as it is right now he can just sit in a window and rape everyone?

I would also be okay with this. I don't feel like the game would even change if he was not there - or it would change for the better as you now have a 5th character in most matches who has an ability.

Because even if the data isn't perfect, it is still showing if characters with the old roster are being picked enough or not. Even in the new meta, if a character was "balanced" they'd still be close to 10%. You might get some numbers inflated because of some characters being more desireable in a meta...

No amount of "oh the data is worthless because [x]" will ever explain away 1% pick rates on Tachanka. He's just absolutely shit and no matter how unreliable the data COULD be, it's showing him as trash since Day 1.

>10 options
>100 divided by 10 = 8

?????????

I'm confused, if I add up all the numbers I should get 100%, but I get 91% for attackers and 93% for defenders. Am I missing something or are the numbers just fucked?

>but they are overpowered compared to the rest of the roster.
But that's not what overpowered means though. Ops like Ashe and Sledge and even Fuze are just versatile. Why are we punishing for this?

Smoke is never a bad choice, you get a nitro cell, an extremely powerful gun, and three gas grenades you can use to deter enemies and use for cover. Mute is never a bad choice, his gadget directly counters thermite, Fuze, drones, and breaching charges. Bandit is never a bad choice, he can counter drones as well and termite charges and he can use his gadget to damage the enemy through shock wore and shields.

Oh yes, I forgot the chart does not cover the DLC operators.

Because you want each character to be equally desirable. If one character is less desirable in some situations, they would be balanced out by being MORE desirable in others.

But if in that "more desirable" situation people are saying "ah fuck it just take Ash she's almost as good" - yeah, she is over represented and too good at what she does. Overpowered is the right term, but not in the "OMFG NERF NERF NERF" we expect. She needs a downward tweak to drop her a few points.

I'm going to assume the %'s are just rounded down. They've always looked fucky to some degree.

Because there is 0 way that Frost and Valk, combined, account for only 7%

Not every character has to be equally desirable or should.

fuck off, people pick castle because he has the m1014 and sometimes, on occasion, his barricades are slightly more useful than normal barricades. statistics are just supplemental knowledge, and anyone smart knows you don't make decisions based on pure numbers alone.

that is called balance. You want a balanced game.

>Because you want each character to be equally desirable.
I'm going to disagree here because we do have operators who are genuinely designed to be versatile. Sledge is the simplest example of this, since his ability is really just a 25-use breaching charge and he's just a rifleman otherwise.Similarly, Fuze has so many options in his primary weapon.
This claim that we want "each character to be equally desirable" essentially has us trying to guess Ubisoft's intent and their own design philosophy. You see the ideal as being each operator is equally viable, while I see it more that there's a core of operators who are always viable surrounded by specialist operators who are useful on certain maps in certain scenarios.
Fuze, who I already pointed to as a versatile op, is far less desirable on Hostage missions because of his ability. He's versatile, but he does lean over into specialist territory just enough that he's not always good.

So I'll have to disagree with the rest of your argument as well. As I see it, Ubi wanted certain ops to be picked commonly, because otherwise they would have made the Recruits into the generic riflemen and made all the named ops the specialists.

Just started on free weekend. Is there a waifu tier list?

>too good at what she does
But your Nerf doesn't change that at all, you're just removing ACOG from her guns when only one of them is really that good. She will still be excellent at taking down walls and barricades from a distance.

A balanced game does not mean every operator will have the exact pick rate.

I believe that's the point, going off just by the pick rate is retarded. Is Bandit or Smoke in need of a buff because they have even lower rates than Castle?

There is no such thing as a balanced game.

A game can be balanced without every option being equally useful.

I wonder:
suppose we had stats on weapons. Suppose that 95% of Attackers were taking Assault Rifles, and 5% Shotguns. Defenders meanwhile see a split of 70% SMGs and 30% Shotguns (I've simplified Jaeger's 416-C to be an SMG instead of it's in-game classification as an assault rifle).

All options are not equally picked, but suppose in our hypothetical example, the weapons are all balanced. Just because Shotguns are picked far less than their alternatives does not make them bad, it just means they are less useful in all situations. This does not mean that shotguns need a buff.

Again, this is a hypothetical. It is not intended to replicate the situations currently in-game with SMG and Shotgun balance.

If I assume they just round down no matter what, and pretend they have a .99 to account for it after each one, attackers add up to100.9. But that is bullshit. Who rounds down like that? This is like a worst case scenario that I build up. The numbers are still fucked up.

>shields are the same size on PC and console despite the absolutely massive difference in player accuracy

thanks Ubi.

>can be balanced without every option being equally useful.
>balance without equality

You know how balancing scales work, right?

Why does he look like this?
Why does he scream?

For using your Fuze example - when you say that Fuze is super versatile, but in 1/3 of the games played he has almost 0 desirability... That is balance. He can be a really good pick and highly desirability 2/3 of the time, but 1/3 of the time where you are playing hostage... His desirability drops to almost zero. That is the essence of balance. It all balances out.

Ubisoft designed this game to last. They said they designed it for years. Having Operators that are picked 1% of the time is essentially like having that character not even in the game.

>She will still be excellent at taking down walls and barricades from a distance
Yes, exactly, and also what she does right now is, when those walls are down, she murders people quite well with the ACOG. She can be a fast, zippy CQB operator with her 3 speed, as well as opening routers for friends. It would still be compelling.

>A balanced game does not mean every operator will have the exact same pick rate
That is exactly, 100% the definition of a balanced game. Not every operator is good in every map or every situation, but on the whole over thousands of games, they would balance out to a nearly identical rate.

You are just used to the "CS 1.6" style of balancing, where it's "balanced" to have options of 10 guns but only 1 good one, but as long as each team has one good gun each it's fine.

>just going off pick rate
Exactly, that is why I offered some solutions to tweak them. Smoke and Bandit have lower pick rates but there is also little you can do to make them better. Bandit, if the electrified walls could not be seen from the other side (try to place breaching charge, it poofs) - it would be a direct buff to Bandit and an indirect buff to IQ/Twitch/using drones to scout the room.

Overwatch would like a word with you

If you're not going to be serious, I can just invert the scenario since none of this matters.
>put four quarters on one side of the scale
>put ten dimes on the other side
>each side has equal value, but the scales are not equally balanced

"The liar is a person who uses the valid designations , the words, in order to make something which is unreal appear real. He says, for example, "I am rich," when the proper designation for his condition would be "poor." He misuses fixed conventions by means of arbitrary substitutions or even reversal of names. If he does this in a selfish and moreover harmful manner, society will cease to trust him and will thereby exclude him."

>tfw solo queuing

both new operators are 1 armor, 3 speed

>he doesn't know how to reload cancel by sprinting

t. copper 2

From there it all depends on overall game design, philosophy, etc. I bet you see a higher rate of Shotgun usage on consoles compared to PC, due to accuracy differences in the input methods.

Ideally you would want a close spread - but if you don't have a close spread, the use of K/D would have to be similar. There are so many ways to look at stats, but if you had shotguns

>70% of the time people use SMG, and 30% of the time people use shotguns

Now if you look at the data and it says

>People using shotguns have a lower K/D than people using SMG's

That would explain the lower pick rate on shotguns. They just aren't as good. People are picking them for a reason, but in your investigation, now you have a place to start looking.

If you saw

>Shotguns have a higher K/D than SMG's

One could potentially argue the situations where Shotguns are more useful pop up less often, but when those situations arise they are more deadly.

You need to examine more than one metric to really get the whole picture. Ubisoft is the ones who have that data. We don't get the whole data. We'll never see the powerpoint presentation where someone had to make an argument to severely buff Pulse into one of the most picked defenders in the game (when he had a 10-8% pick rate since launch, meaning fairly well balanced pick rate all things considered) Maybe there is data we don't know.

But if you only had one stat to look at, pick rates aren't terrible. It's essentially the community telling you what is good and what is not. It's not some dudes on reddit asking for a buff to Thermite because they feel he's crap. He's clearly not, he's one of the most picked dudes in the game.

But when you see Tachanka having a 1% pick rate for months on end, you don't really need to see other data to come to the conclusion he's dog shit and needs to be examined.

Let's be honest now. The ops sitting below 5% are generally ops that have a mechanical issue and they do genuinely need buffs because they cannot fulfill their intended role. They're failed operators.

Doc rarely has opportunities to revive someone. He usually just ends up reviving himself.
Tachanka generally will not be able to use his turret in a manner superior to him simply walking around with his SMG.
etc.

That's a failure on the design team to predict how the game would be played. Doc would be useful if DBNO was more common, or DBNO wasn't often just followed by a finishing bullet. Or, if there were hordes of enemies or walls for Tachanka to cut through, he may have also been useful.

I'm not sure how this post ties into the larger argument. Your posting style is similar to the user I have been talking with however, so I assume that it is the same person.