Not renting until you can buy a place with cash

OK I'll bite this sounds like sane advice.

Please go into further detail regarding assets making payments on your house... Are you talking about fucking vending machines, work trucks for a company you own, what?

Not understanding the benefit of the borrowing against the house at 3% interest or how the deterrent against lawsuits works.

What lawsuits are you trying to avoid?

Are you just suggesting in general that if you ever end up in a lawsuit you have a large pool of loan money to pay attorneys with?

>Why? Why would you ever want a house?
That's the premise of this thread, that renting until you can pay in cash is better than buying with a mortgage.

I don't see why you would ever want to own a home at all, mortgage or no mortgage.

Why not just live minimalisticly, in a nice area?

lets run some numbers shall we.

median adjusted income is about ~52k

median rent ~1100

Lets say you're a really frugal guy with expenses down to 30k per year. thanks obama.

median price home price 190k avg mortgage at 3.5%
Say with regular fees of 10% to get it to 209k.

typical 20% down. 38k

I ran the numbers its really neglible the difference. at roughly 50 years.
15k in favor of the apt.
what really swung me though is the opportunity cost.

Even if you never buy the house and keep renting the numbers don't really change much

and given the average person moves approximately every 7 years. I cannot believe it but apartments are actually the cheaper less risky option right now for most people.

These are straight purchase numbers though. individual situations are going to matter a great deal.

There is no great incentive here beyond time.
With a house you get decay even with the generous maintenance pool I put on the house.

frankly time is the most important factor here. Houses come with a host of headaches.

a stoic would argue you learn and grow from these things while an epicure would argue why not just hand those problems to the people who want to deal with them.

So if you want to buy a home you need a really good reason or an edge.

Buy house
>finally free

Play loud music
>cops at my door

Put up shed
>fined for violation of ordinance and not paying shed tax

Put up cloths line
>neighbors complain to housing association that I'm decreasing their property value

Work in my garage at night
>Too loud and outside of allowed noise hours

Cut grass
>Fined, because I have to use a 4 cylinder and not my old 2 cylinder motor that has worked for 25 years. New one breaks in 2yrs.

Try to repair a leak in my roof
>Sent a letter because I didn't use an approved contractor

Buying a house
>E V E R

real estate as an investment and equity are an asset class separate and non correlated from other investments however, and if you've got the money therefore are likely going to find a home in your portfolio.

200k house

estimated 60k in interest on a 10 year loan.

Est payments 1500 for 10yr loan.

Say 4 years in paying the thing I buy another house and rent in the area is around 1200 a month for a similar house.

Now I've paid 72,000 so far.

My renter leaves me with 6 years of covering 300 a month in payments.

That's another 21,000.

Say I have 50 grand in improvements over 10 years.

House is paid off in 10 years, I'm 140,000 in the hole with a monthly income stream of 1100 a month, and I have 200,000 in equity. At the 10 year mark, this is a shitty investment. However, that 200,000 in equity allows me to repeat the process.

So in essence I should be able to spend within 20 years 280,000 and have 400,000 in equity, 190,000 in passive revenue, and have potentially some scapegoat from poorly performing markets.

Granted it's not a 14% per annum, but it's still a relatively safe, semi liquid reliable return. Could easily fund your retirement and give you something to pass along to the kids. If you were aggressive with this strategy you could easily quadruple the numbers.

I come to Veeky Forums for laughs. Was not disappointed. Thanks OP

Fuck man, interest rates are killer. If you can pay 200k cash for the home and rent it straight out you're a lot better off in the long run on this investment. Interest rates are only going up as well.

What the fuck are you talking about

That's what you get for living in the shitty crowded suburbs user.

>Interest rates are only going up as well.
^This, plus there are already signs of a peaked housing market in the US and Canada. Just read a story that basically said Vancouver has peaked and Toronto is close behind.

Thats a great argument against moving to that specific neighborhood

I actually used various examples of people I know.

>Vancouver
cbc.ca/news/business/sothebys-luxury-homes-toronto-vancouver-1.3762011

Cool

agreed as an investment, for mid term real estate is god tier in its risk:return.

I only ran the numbers as a purchase.

there are some qualitative differences in the numbers that ought to be pointed out

median apt is a 2/2 while median house is a 3/2.

but according to these numbers it be might in your best interest to own a portfolio of RE and rent an apt for yourself.

this assumption doesn't hold too well in real world b/c of crossover domain expertise allowing the house to edge over the apt. b/c fee reduction and market awareness.

But that's the limitations of statistics and averages. you exclude these outliers or run them in a separate category.

Frankly residential is a shitty game. If you saved 200k to buy a house. First thing I'd do would be get an SBA loan and buy something commercial. b/c $200k becomes $1M and a 10% cap rate on a 1M is $100k per year, Sure its not pure yield but it is cashflow and you can stack it

buying into an HOA you idiot. You buy a house for rights and you signed them away.
&
wtf is that about lawnmowers who the fuck signed away their rights to use specific lawnmowers

How do I convince my fiancé that we don't need to rush to buy a home?

tell her to chill the fuck out

give her the dick.

Dump her.

iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/surprising-real-estate-investing-myths/

Show her the numbers. Explain in depth when and why buying a home will work out and why it won't right now. Then go buy a home because she doesn't give a shit and will leave you if you don't fulfill her fairytale marriage and happily ever after in the right span of time.

inb4 projecting
(i am though)

>not living with parents til they pass down the house

Idk what rent feel is
Idk what a mortgage feel is

>giving a shit about what people think about me

This is the life gentlemen

I wonder what it feels like to leech off your parents...

How's that 800 a month payment going

>>not living with parents til they pass down the house

Kind of sucks though in most cases.

It's a pain in the ass to bring friend or girls over and parents can be assholes to their kids a lot of the time, plus it really sucks if you live in an area that presents little opportunity to further your career.

1200 actually. Im building equity and live in a beautiful home i worked my ass off for. I have the satisfaction of knowing i did this on my own. Im very content reaping the fruits of my labor and it gives me a sense of accomplishment. Something i pity you for missing out on

>paying someone elses mortgage
>not investing your money in an asset than you can always flip and historically has always grown

Good for you man. Don't forget property taxes, maintenance, utility, and insurance.

My money isn't sitting in a bank btw. Imagine if you had 1200 a month returns instead, that's me lovin at home. Now imagine those 1200 going into a well balanced portfolio. That's me right now

Imagine me buying a home at 3.25% interest and property values in Austin tx are increasing at 10-15% a year. Imagine that I airbnb a room for $1400 a month.

That's me right now while you're home with mommy

lel you're really mad right now

That dude has beat the system, he didn't fall for the same bullshit everyone else did. He is in a generational household so he can finally be free. Take all the money you make and now remove every single one of your expenses, that's him

>not living with family member for free, living /out/, or renting a room for very cheap

I laugh at people who pay $900 a month to be a rent cuck and boast about how much money they are saving not owning a house.

Ya its not free. Nor would I want it to be. I believe a strong work ethic is one of the best traits anyone could have. Im certainly not gonna raise my children to be like you

>That dude has beat the system, he didn't fall for the same bullshit everyone else did. He is in a generational household so he can finally be free

That fucking sucks though. I hated living with my parents, I moved out at 20. it was a pain in the ass

How do you guys do it? Don't you ever have conflicts from not agreeing or find it kind of awkward to bring girls over?

>family member for free

Not many people have family members who let you live with them without paying your share of rent.

That's a part of the house they could either be using, or could be renting out to someone. That's lost income to them.

>living /out/

Living outside and dumpster diving? Uhh it's not for everyone but I could see how it could be fun to eat half-eaten slices of pizza for dinner

>or renting a room for very cheap

Very little room, kind of sucks

>Take all the money you make and now remove every single one of your expenses, that's him

Also wouldn't the only expense you're saving on be rent?

It's not that tremendous, plus what if your parents live in an undesirable place for your field of work? Like let's say you're a finance major but your parents live in the middle of some hick town?

>That fucking sucks though. I hated living with my parents, I moved out at 20. it was a pain in the ass
>How do you guys do it? Don't you ever have conflicts from not agreeing or find it kind of awkward to bring girls over?

Your parents fucking suck then, I get along fine with my parents and they realize life is bullshit and the only way to get ahead for most people is to save money and not waste 60% of my income on just living in an apartment. Also why would my parents care if I brought a girl over, we live in a fucking 3 story house, some days I don't even seem them and I have a separate door and key for the basement suite I live in right now, the house is still connected but it's not like they are barging into my fucking room and shit.

>rent
>food
>utilities
>parents dont live in shitty hick town because they arent retarded

You know you can move somewhere with your family, americans seem to love the idea of moving out and starting your own way for no reason

>america loves moving away from your parents
>america loves independence
Thats right bitch. I can blare freebird as loud as i want anytime i want cuz im a free american. Move to england George

Balding baby boomer detected

>>rent
>>food
>>utilities

Your parents don't make you pay your portion of the food and utilities that you use?

That's great for you but it's highly uncommon for the average person to have parents who don't see an issue with providing for a fully capable adult.

>>>You know you can move somewhere with your family

>Hey mom and dad I know you're happy here but let's move closer to the city so i can further my career and continue to eat your food and use your electricity and water without paying for it even though I'll earn a lot more money

l o l.

>Your parents fucking suck then, I get along fine with my parents and they realize life is bullshit and the only way to get ahead for most people is to save money and not waste 60% of my income on just living in an apartment

Yes they do suck but it's the norm - it's been the case with nearly everyone I've ever known, they've never really gotten along with their parents, whereas you're either coping with it, or very lucky.

There's a big generational gap, and given that you're their "child", there is a big divide on seeing things.

Look man I'd love to not pay for anything but it's not an option for me, nor the vast majority of people.

I have a strong work ethic at my job. Having traits are great, but if you don't give a shit about what others think, it's just a meh.

>independence
>actually falling for this propaganda

This is what companies want from you. They want you to buy more food, more appliances, more everything.

I live at home but if the dishwasher breaks guess what, I split the costs with a few people and it turns out to not even be an issue, that's one dishwasher for 4 people and not 4 dishwashers for 4 people which is what companies want.

Just take this and split costs for literally everything and then take shit like family plans for phones, being able to buy bulk food and actually use it and it's astounding how much money I save. I'd say I save about 95% of the money I make, I could literally stop working now and not do anything for the next 8-10 years if I budgeted properly. It's funny how people actually believe they are free when they are wage cucks and will always have bills to pay. I have true freedom, my family has true freedom and we beat the system, you're just mad you can't beat it like my family and I did.

This user is me. We must be clones or something. Have a basement to myself Senpai, get along with parents just fine.

I live close to the public train so I just commute to work, I don't even own a car. I drive my dads and pay for the insurance and gas

>This is what companies want from you. They want you to buy more food, more appliances, more everything.
>It's funny how people actually believe they are free when they are wage cucks and will always have bills to pay.

>The jooos want you to be happy and enjoy yourself!

Nah man it's great if it works out for you but it's not an option for most people, as i said.

I've lived with my parents and it fucking sucked and I hated it. That's been the case with many people I've known too. It's not worth it

>Hey mom and dad I know you're happy here but let's move closer to the city so i can further my career and continue to eat your food and use your electricity and water without paying for it even though I'll earn a lot more money

Your parents have to retire eventually dumbass, if they sell their house and help you establish some ties in a bigger city and you both help each other. They will get old and instead of dropping them in a fucking home like an asshole you could support them and always be close to them. Also with more people everything is cheaper so you can afford a bigger house and with a bigger house comes the chance for more income in the form of Airbnb and even renting rooms to students. Your parents could quit their job and take care of the house while renting rooms to students and you could start your career and as they age you'd be their as a security net for them.

That's your problem man, you let your emotions dictate your rational decision making
Your ego is in the way

24. And im sickened that hard work is mocked by you and your ilk

That's pretty depressing, america has such an awful anti family culture. Family is truly one of the only ways to get ahead in this world. I had a similar attitude towards you in wanting to move out till I started seeing all this european families and east indian families that lived together and the kids would be driving brand new top of the line audis and shit and they paid for them upfront in cash. My parents also looked at housing prices and realized how fucked I am so we just agreed fuck this system lets just pool all our money together and live like kings in one house instead of barely getting by on our own.

>independence is corporate greed
Wow. Ive truly entered a new realm of autism

>rent
>save for house at the same time
>paying for something twice

This is how people stay poor.

>That's your problem man, you let your emotions dictate your rational decision making
>Your ego is in the way

Constantly having arguments about shit was driving me nuts. I had little privacy and no respect, everytime I'd complain they'd say "You're free to move out", so I did.

What are you talking about 'ego'?

>They will get old and instead of dropping them in a fucking home like an asshole you could support them and always be close to them

They've never done that for me, I've had to pay for almost all my own things since about 15-16 years old. I had a break on the food and rent until 18.

Constant arguments about meaningless things, having to listen to their annoying, pessimistic rants. Constant fights.

Wasn't worth it anymore.

Good for you, it's not the same for many people though

>im unhappy with my life and want to change
>dont let your emotions get in the way bro
Wew lad

Think about it like this. 4 people, they can live together or separately. If they all live separately that's

>4x as much for utilities
>4x as much rent money
>4x as much money for appliances
>4x as much for entertainment
>4x as much for literally every single fixed cost ever, this means companies make up to 4x as much if these people are independent over the entire lifespan of these 4 people

Now imagine when everyone wants to move out, take every family and separate them, that's trillions of dollars for companies. The only way to save and enjoy economic freedom is to stick together.

You're a little bitch for complaining about things. You might have a work ethic but you're still an emotional pussy

What you need privacy to jerk off to some Hentai. Kek

You can apply the same logic to the negatives of sharing a room tho. Only the weak and lazy need to ride their parents coattails after graduation

x as much for utilities

????? You pay for as much utilities as you use. You're literally paying the same price for your utilities as if you've lived alone. The only variance is if you use more but pay less and someone you live with covers it.

x as much rent money

You're sharing area...

x as much money for appliances

Appliances break less when they're being used 1/4th as much.

x as much for entertainment

Like what? Sharing an xbox and taking turns playing it?

>You're a little bitch for complaining about things. You might have a work ethic but you're still an emotional pussy

Good argument dude, i'm really starting to see from your side of things

>"I don't really like something for these reasons..."
>SHUT UP STOP CRYING JUST ENDURE THROUGH THEM, LOOK YOU'RE SAVING $600/MONTH

>saving money is lazy and weak

lel, like I said before I could literally just fuck off from work for a decade with how much i've saved and my parents are pretty much all but retired and they just travel and enjoy life now. We won and you can't accept that.

>We won and you can't accept that.

Okay good for you. Some people are born children of billionaires. Should we be mad about that too?

Not everyone can be a billionaire. Everyone can form a strong relationship with their family and gain economic freedom though.

How fucking butt hurt are you? You're on the reply button like no tomorrow. You're going to wake up tomorrow and cut your small dick off after you realize how much you're dropping down the drain living independent with your strong big man work ethic

>Everyone can form a strong relationship with their family and gain economic freedom though.

What if it just doesn't work? Should I keep trying even though I hate it?

Give me some advice please. Here's the facts:
>My parents live in a crappy area which presents little opportunity for jobs, I would have to commute a substantial amount if I lived with them

>My parents constantly fight and have been abusive, it is stressful to live with them

>My parents force(d) me to pay rent, a share of the utilities and food or any other expenses I have since 18 years old.

Should I move back in with them and keep living there? Is it a good option for me

Aren't you replying just as much? not really seeing your point

This whole discussion is ridiculous. I told you that's not an option for some people but you keep thinking everyone is the same

Then don't look towards your parents, look towards cousins, siblings, friends you trust over everyone else. Your end goal should be getting as big a house as possible and as many people as you trust as possible in it

Saving money at the expense of your parents who probably worked very hard is objectively lazy and weak yes

>Your end goal should be getting as big a house as possible

Why do I need a large house?

I live in a nice area in a bachelor apartment living very minimalistically.

Also who are you to say what my end goal should be? Have you considered that maybe people have different goals and different paths in life?

But it isn't, you parents dont just bleed money when you stay there, they save money as well. They ensure that they have a future and won't just be dumped in a retirement home. Family should care for one another. My parents can now retire earlier without worrying about bills as they have another person working full time contributing to bills

But i dont want to live like a can of sardines. I want to live with my wife my dog and one day our children. Why should i want to sacrifice any of my comforts or that of my family for a few hundred bucks a month? I didnt work this hard to move back into a dormitory

Because one house that costs 800k and has 6 bedrooms is way cheaper than per person than a single shitty bachelor pad for 350k

>Also who are you to say what my end goal should be? Have you considered that maybe people have different goals and different paths in life?

And I guess yours is to be poor

Then get a house with enough floors a big enough yard that you don't have to worry about that. There is an east indian family in my neighborhood who own a house with an elevator because it's so big, each family member has pretty much their own floor and they only see each other when they eat big dinners or leave for work in the morning

renting.. is like... pressing the snooze button on being homeless.

If your ultimate goal is to save money you should move. 350k for a bachelor pad is ridiculous in most of america. Kinda contradicting yourself

>falling for the marriage meme
>falling for the house and dog meme from 1970s

Damn Veeky Forums just likes being poor

>Because one house that costs 800k and has 6 bedrooms is way cheaper than per person than a single shitty bachelor pad for 350k

I rent for $1300/month in a nice area.

>And I guess yours is to be poor

I'm enjoying my life so far and I have a fair amount in my portfolio.

You seem to be having difficulty understanding that families are different and sometimes they don't get along

>renting.. is like... pressing the snooze button on being homeless.

In what way? if you don't make property tax or mortgage payments you become homeless too.

All the best jobs are here, why move when I can just live with my parents and make 10x as much while still having less expenses than anywhere else

How does marriage in any way make me poorer? Quite the opposite. This aint the 50s m8 get back to reality

how is buying a mansion with an elevator cost effective by any metric? Dude your arguments are weak as fuck.

>Not buying a rental while you still live at home
>Not using other peoples rent money to fund your investments and the purchase of your own home
>paying rent until you die instead of paying off a mortgage

WEWLAD

i dont know dude i saw some Sri Lankan family with a medieval castle with their own butlers, see it's a good idea to live with your parents into your 30's. Why aren't you doing it yet?

This, marriage is a great way to get a head, kids are fucking expensive but marriage is amazing because if you're both young professionals you can get way ahead of your peers.

Because the cost is split among like 12 people, the house may be nearly 2 million dollars but when you split that into 12 chunks it's hardly anything and all the costs associated with a house are shared so nothing ever costs that much as it's 12 people paying for one or two repairs.

You're signing your independence away for a woman.

How much do you spend on dates? Women are the biggest sunk cost a man will ever have

>10x as much
Cmon man. We both know thats a lie

>You're signing your independence away for a woman.
>How much do you spend on dates? Women are the biggest sunk cost a man will ever have

Not everything is about making money?

This is like making the argument you should only be doing 100% productive things at all times with a high ROI. Yet we're here on Veeky Forums

Not literally but it's either I make 80k a year here or I move to a rural shitty hick town and make half of what I do now if I can even get the same job. Not to mention all the opportunities I give up and how much networking I lose by being in a shitty small town.

>live with 12 people
I dont want to live in a dorm. Privacy peace and quiet have value whether you want to admit that or not

>we're here on Veeky Forums

Finally some common ground

Einstein is a meme.

He was a goddamn socialist

completely ignorant in anything other than physics and math

should not interfere with daily life or take any advice seriously other than physics & math

Fedora tier post. Even by Veeky Forums standards

But they do have privacy. Get a 4/5 story house with lots of square footage and subdivide it or build a carriage house on a big property and you can live with 12 people and hardly see them.

Yes not everything is about money

Ever heard of enjoyment?

Money allows people to enjoy things

Good one