/poeg/ - Path of Exile General

no. i don't post nearly as much as you think i do

objectively false

why would i risk my character doing irrelevant content, or content i could pay someone a few chaos to do for me?

>cant do any form of endgame
>thinks he aint shit

>normal atziri
>a risk to your character
holy FUCK you're garbage

post a list of builds you've killed atziri with

Elementalist and pick a skill that isn't 100% absolute trash. Hell I might try it with ele hit.
Burning arrow's my favourite though.

We both know it's true. The sad thing is it's not a reputation you earned by being a top player and consequently attracting jealousy. You RMT and you're still a shit player. At least try to be a havoc kind of player if you're going to tip the scale in your favor.

Mithia is a huge faggot that has a degree in gender studies and does not eat meat

gender studies is gay af but eating meat is murder

second of all we don't use the f word here

>designing builds specifically to kill atziri
>in 2016

i can get 32 challenges pretty easily but the last 4 will take a while

he's saying the opposite moron
he's saying you don't need jack shit to kill Atziri, even Elementalist can do it even though her biggest weapon (conflux) is all but useless against Atziri

i really don't read any of your posts twobh

>1 hour without a post

...

hi

DELETE THIS YOU FUCKING WEEBSHIT

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Nice general poetards

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Hit 94 with doomfletch prism prolif in HC yesterday, can't be bothered to do any more rotations.

Lv 90 lab runner juggernaut.

I'm tired of these builds and there's still a month left of this dogshit league.

Recommend some builds that aren't complete dogshit in theory and I'll try one or two of them out.

flicker non oros

do you want to level up together

i got top 200 in endless ledge. i won't slow you down...

r u a gril?

if you want me to be...

not guy you were arguing with, but atziri is easy as fuck, it is a mechanical fight not a gear check.
i have cleared atziri with at least 15 different characters, animate weapon being one of my Favorited to clear her it.

...

its still a high risk to take when a chaos takes care of it. recently i stopped paying for vaal and piety kills but only because cruel and merc labs cost currency early on, but even those pose a risk that anyone who isn't retarded would avoid

>vaal
>risk

lmfao

First I have to decide on build.

I'll admit, predetermined pricing is just too extreme for PoE. That's not because it wouldn't work but because the developers have to be capable of actually achieving the goals they set fourth.

For example, they laid the groundwork for all kinds of competitive meta in PoE years ago. Yet still, all we have is a handful of autists poopsocking to #1 on the ladder, a handful of RMT autists in standard leagues spending all their asspie money on Exalt stacks from playerauctions and nothing else.

If GGG had made PoE into a more competitive game by focusing on the engine's fluidity, bringing player instance invading, having top tier in game leaderboard and player statistics functions and a full UI for the race seasons in game with compelling rewards...

If all of the above were true and players outside of the select few started feeling like there was a little bit of worthwhile competitive meta game, they'd start taking the cheating side a little more seriously.

This is where predetermined prices make a lot more sense. Let's say hypothetically speaking, if PoE were nearly a perfect game and players cared more about who was rich and who was winning, they might be more open to an economic system that severely hampers botters and kills RMT.

That's kinda what I hoped PoE would turn into. Obviously it didn't. Most of the stuff that attracted me to the game six years ago never panned out. But I still keep my dreams alive.

All of the objections to predetermined pricing I've read have nothing to do with it. They're all opinions about the way things currently work and not how they'd work with predetermined pricing. Where instead of player opinion of the price deciding value, player deciding what to keep determines what they are capable of profiting from.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post, reddit. See you in the maps!

>Where instead of player opinion of the price deciding value, player deciding what to keep determines what they are capable of profiting from.

you are still making people decide on a value, just making the ignore their valuation and accept whatever arbitrary amount of currency said item amounts to

thats one of the main problems of fixed trade: being unsatisfying. and this is a game after all

Decided on assreacher. IGN UltimaOnline.
Leveling now on p-hc

>UltimaOnline.

should go play albion ultimafag

>you are still making people decide on a value
No, you are deciding what to keep. Keeping an item because it's valuable is the decision, not deciding the item's value. English isn't your first language, is it?

>making the ignore their valuation and accept whatever arbitrary amount of currency
It isn't arbitrary at all. In fact, it's far less arbitrary than the current system where prices are largely dictated by whoever can control item stock and flip currency as well as RMT. It uses the most fundamental aspect of items: its mods in order to determine price. If an item has a mod, it can have a currency value attached to it, your opinion of what that value should be notwithstanding.

>thats one of the main problems of fixed trade: being unsatisfying. and this is a game after all
The vast majority of players aren't satisfied in any way with the current trade system. It's only the few market simulator autists trying to defend it.

Why act 4 is so shit? It ruined the whole game.

>No, you are deciding what to keep. Keeping an item because it's valuable is the decision, not deciding the item's value. English isn't your first language, is it?

It seems it isn't your either. If you have a constant, unlimited influx of items as leveling/grinding is accomplished, and limited inventory space; you are forced to not only decide what to keep in terms if it being sellable or not, but in terms of what drives a higher price. They are deciding what to keep based on its value, the difference is they no longer control said value and profit when a given item is in higher demand than normal or make a quick sale by undercutting the average.

This is unsatisfying.

>It uses the most fundamental aspect of items

I would say the most fundamental aspect of an item is its usefulness in the current meta. Mods can stay the same, usefulness can change thou different leagues, and hence price should change according to demand and supply.

>players aren't satisfied

no one but you is satisfied with your alternative

>It seems it isn't your either.
No, it is.

>you are forced to not only decide what to keep in terms if it being sellable or not, but in terms of what drives a higher price.
You do not decide in any way what drives a higher price. A good player who understands game mechanics would know what players are more likely to buy than not. This doesn't require you to have any knowledge of the specific currency value of items. Players with enough wealth will pay whatever for an item. Your job is to know what will sell, not what to price the item at. There is a correlation between the two, they are not one in the same in any way.

>I would say the most fundamental aspect of an item is its usefulness in the current meta.
That is true when deciding which item to use, not when assessing the sum of an item's parts.

>no one but you is satisfied with your alternative
What I said is a fact: the vast majority aren't satisfied with the current trade system hence why GGG has been trying to change it for virtually the entire duration of the game's existence and as evidenced by constant forum discussions.
The alternative being proposed is virtually unknown and the only objections are poor and limited to a few market simulator autists. I intend to keep it that way. It entertains me to know a perfect solution exits and the general populace is too fucking stupid to implore it. It reminds me of how much better the world would be if it weren't run by retards like you.

Would you play an ARPG made by these girls?

>Your job is to know what will sell, not what to price the item at.

If market price SHOULD not matter, just market viability, what motivates one to look for and sell specific combinations of mods/bases that cater to niche builds? currently its the fact that i can sell those for more; but under your system market viability should motive people to only care to sell generalist item or stuff that only matters on the most FOTM builds on each league.

Basically you turn an econ thats based on opportunistic barter and light capitalism into wage-like volume trading

how is that fun?

>That is true when deciding which item to use, not when assessing the sum of an item's parts.

You dont think there is a problem when atomic item composition triumps usefulness in determining price? That is not how player-based trade works.

>The alternative being proposed is virtually unknown and the only objections are poor and limited to a few market simulator autists

Anyone who plays poe for a while is either a market sim autie or a ssf autie. Either way your system takes out the fun for them or is completely irrelevant. The entirety of your argument is quite easy see flaws in, specially as you avoid any form of specificity regarding the actual item pricing part.

still trying to get those damn black stone prophecies.

really? i didnt mind the escalation of it all--take out piety and dominus who wwere twisted by malachai, take out malachai who is busy trying to eat mountain-satan-magicsource for the old wipe out the world ploy.

the only thing i had issue with WAS malachai being so successful at it--this thing is ageless, timeless, and has personally orchestraed the downfall of countless civilizations--the most recent being the fall of the eternal empire and convincing kaom that not only was he not satan, but he was actually a god and kaom should totally go kill all the karui (and, yknow, the whole mayan quadboob apocalypse). for something that intelligent and powerful, I've got no goddamn idea how malachai would have even gotten within spitting distance of that damn mountain without the beast's say-so.

>If market price SHOULD not matter, just market viability, what motivates one to look for and sell specific combinations of mods/bases that cater to niche builds?
Player's need currency and items. Motivations doesn't change that fact. If there's a player seeking niche items, there's a player keeping niche items. Just like in the current system, a player would have more success not keeping niche items and instead using their space for more popular well known items that sell quicker. As in my system the same applies.

>under your system market viability should motive people to only care to sell generalist item or stuff that only matters on the most FOTM builds on each league
You haven't in any way described the extent of this. You're just flat out saying, "b-but players won't keep the item I need anymore!" but there's no supporting reason for this. Your argument can be reduced down much further: NEEDS. Player A needs item Player B has. Everything past that point in word salad.

>Basically you turn an econ thats based on opportunistic barter and light capitalism into wage-like volume trading
Market simulator autism isn't fun. Exceedingly few players partake in it. That's a fundamental problem, not a valuable feature. It enabled RMT and botting to a higher scale than what would be capable in a predetermined price system.

>You dont think there is a problem when atomic item composition triumps usefulness in determining price? That is not how player-based trade works.
It's more useful to market simulator autists to control the economy, not to players of the game.

>The entirety of your argument is quite easy see flaws in, specially as you avoid any form of specificity regarding the actual item pricing part.

>The entirety of your argument is quite easy see flaws in, specially as you avoid any form of specificity regarding the actual item pricing part.
If the flaws are easy to see, why can't you name a single one and have it stand up to scrutiny?

Got a key for me, fag?

was meant for act 3 is worse

I just sold an exalted orb for 78 chaos

ask me anything

>Player A needs item Player B has. Everything past that point in word salad.

On a free market econ Player B has the item Player A needs because B knows A needs it and can profit from A. Pricing is derived from metagame-usefulness value and item supply.

Under your system there is no clear relationship between an atomic-composition derived deterministic pricing system and its metagame-usefulness value, so how do you make it so that Player B isn't motivated to sell anything but items that while being market viable, also drive higher deterministic pricing and he is also forced to sell in volume instead of attacking market niches that would not only mean slower sales, but potentially less currency from each sale because again, atomistic determinism pricing has no regard for usefulness.

>If the flaws are easy to see, name one

Its unsatisfying. Feels like you go from being a medieval stock broker to a medieval wagecuck farmer.

And you can be a wagecuck farmer right now if you want, using currency recipes.

oops this was meant for why do you play softcore?

i think you got it backwards. malachai was just """"the beast's""""" pawn

Am I autistic for
- picking up every piece with a quality modifier (for gems)
- picking up any piece of rare equipment and frequently going to town to stash it away
- carefully looking through the loot to not miss eny good slot combinations (for chromatics for example)

Leveling with my brother and he's constantly rushing me. I should cut down on my hoarding obsession.
Thanks for reading my blog.

>why can't you name a single one
you have the memory of a goldfish

Use a good item filter: that way you can immediately spot items for recipes or with quality.

Stashing rares aint worth it early on, just pick up what you can and vendor/use it.

After you reach merciless a4+ start stashing rares for chaos/regal recipe.

>On a free market econ Player B has the item Player A needs because B knows A needs it and can profit from A. Pricing is derived from metagame-usefulness value and item supply.
The point you're making reduces down to the amount of currency a player can get out of a niche item, not whether or not a player is capable of selling them. The argument of whether or not a player will keep or sell them reduces down to needs as has been and will be restated every time you reintroduce this failed point.

>so how do you make it so that Player B isn't motivated to sell anything but items that while being market viable, also drive higher deterministic pricing and he is also forced to sell in volume instead of attacking market niches that would not only mean slower sales, but potentially less currency from each sale because again, atomistic determinism pricing has no regard for usefulness.
For one, slower sales doesn't matter. Some things sell more/less in either system. You're cherry picking a niche case scenario and then weighting it far heavier as if to say this specific scenario is more important than others while failing to support that the prior is any better than the latter. I have given perfect reason why in both cases niche items sell: need. Players need currency and items. Less players keep niche items in both cases. You are unable to quantify the difference or why it even matters. In some cases some niche items will sell better in my system than in the current.

>Its unsatisfying. Feels like you go from being a medieval stock broker to a medieval wagecuck farmer.
K but you'll have to support your statement with facts and you haven't.

I'm using ziggyd.tv/featured/ziggyds-loot-filter/
Still a lot of clutter, but I like to be sure that nothing I MIGHT like get's cut.

Yeah, I probably should just pick up stuff that might be useful for me, or my alts and ignore the rest.

Probably a good idea to just rush the game till then.

Thanks m8.

You have the reading comprehension of a migrant toddler. Name one point that has stood. We'll wait.

Reminder the game rewards you for being clever and is specifically designed to be that way. Catshitter is assravaged his poor understanding of the game and its meta is not allowing him to get rich and lashing out at a system he can't benefit from as much as others who have played as long as him have. He wants a dumbed down game where decision making, from choosing what kind of build you play, to which areas to speed farm, to what items one chooses to keep, to what uniques one chooses to hoard or aggressively sell, to what gems one chooses to level in off-hand, to what enchant one chooses to attempt to land on a specific base -- all of that is removed from the player.

His lack of basic game understanding goes further than that: he seems to delude himself into thinking an item's worth, when separated from player's evaluation, can be summed up by a weighted sum of its mods, even though

a) several uniques are designed to be versatile, meaning not each and every of their mods should be weighed equally across all builds who would use them.
GGG designs some uniques with a wide affix roll for a reason: to give the players the freedom to decide how they choose to use a unique according to their character's needs and budget, and how it evolves with the meta.

b) most rare items have conflicting combinations of affixes. This is what make t1 rares with no conflicting affixes special and sought after, this is the carrot at the end of the stick for end game players. Chaos resistance is extremely valuable in most rare items, except those that would fit a CI build perfectly, in which case it becomes a literal dead weight.

Path of Exile is a game that rewards knowledge. Catshitter wants to be rewarded for just mindlessly grinding shit maps 12 hours a day and not giving a single thought about how to elevate his game above. He wants to bring down everyone to his level of retardedness because he cannot bring himself to the level of actual good players.

The first criticism that is always brought is that values change and keeping up with the market would require an enormous and constant amount of work by the developers to both accurately reflect the market value of mods and prevent exploitation.
>muh algorithms
loooooool

> several uniques are designed to be versatile, meaning not each and every of their mods should be weighed equally across all builds who would use them.
They don't need to be. The value of an item doesn't need to perfectly reflect how powerful it is. It's not that way in the current system it doesn't need to be that way in mine. It just needs to be consistent and it accomplishes that by using the intended power of the sum of an item's parts. In the case of uniques specifically, GGG already places them in tiers and as such, the price is a reflection of said tiers. Whether or not you agree/disagree with the price no longer matters as your opinion on item price isn't part of the trade system.

> most rare items have conflicting combinations of affixes. This is what make t1 rares with no conflicting affixes special and sought after, this is the carrot at the end of the stick for end game players. Chaos resistance is extremely valuable in most rare items, except those that would fit a CI build perfectly, in which case it becomes a literal dead weight.
Nothing you posted rebuts anything in a predetermined price system. "Conflicting" is only relevant in the current system. With predetermined prices, the conflicting aspect is represented in the item's currency value mod. Your opinion on the final value doesn't matter as you don't price the items.

>Catshitter wants to be rewarded for just mindlessly grinding shit maps 12 hours a day and not giving a single thought about how to elevate his game above. He wants to bring down everyone to his level of retardedness because he cannot bring himself to the level of actual good players.
My system rewards knowledge better because players can spend more time learning the game rather than countless hours spent with autistic hagglers who don't understand game mechanics and it rewards item mod knowledge and metagame knowledge equally as the richest players will find clever ways in selecting which items to keep.

>the market would require an enormous and constant amount of work by the developers to both accurately reflect the market value of mods
The same could be said for affix tiers or any other item property or map mod or anything else. The fact is 99% of the work is done up front by associating a currency value with each mod after that, token balancing of said values is all that's needed because ultimately the price of items isn't decided by you.

>prevent exploitation
It's far easier to prevent exploitation as it requires constantly hording an obscene amount of junk to transfer currency between accounts whereas the current system any idiot with their dad's credit card can visit playerauctions and buy Exalt stacks. Not anymore.

>Nothing you posted rebuts anything in a predetermined price system.
conflicting modes make the item more expensive while making it worse. core mods would be high value and if you have core mods for 3 different builds the item will be like triple the value of an item that's much more valuable because all of its mods contribute to a single build.

Fixed prices are retarded in general but your specific system is especially bad by just having values for mods.

I'm making point of niche items because many "innovative" builds that pop up are built around those. And the lack of correlation between metagame-value and atomic deterministic pricing means you have little incentive to attempt selling those, and specially if said item's atomic composition is rare, there is no way to profit from that rarity (other than RMTing the "right to buy it"). You think it's a failed point because of your own unstated assumption regarding atomic deterministic valuation which you have always refused to detail.

The main complain about trading is people pricing shit arbitrarily or trying to scam you yet, ultimately if you think a rare item SHOULD sell for more in your system, you can force-bundle it with other crap items as a means to make people pay more (and others would follow suit or undercut you) or simply resort to RMT. I guarantee that this would happen. Because ultimately, monopolies and manipulation are entirely possible if you control supply, which is possible even in your system. And people wanting to get the most out of items would follow suit.

That's what is unsatisfying: you have to skirt around fixed pricing using bundling tricks or be a wage farmer. And like i mentioned, you can already be a wage slave right now if you chose to.

Its unfun because the tension behind item valuation is deflated due to atomic deterministic pricing that is unconnected from metagame-value usefulness

And its a bad idea because only you like it.

>The same could be said for affix tiers or any other item property or map mod or anything else.
No it can't because demand simply makes mods worth more to players who are willing to pay more so other players will sell the items to them. If the value of your algorithm is off by a small margin then the price is either too high for players to be willing to pay for the item so sellers will just have to vend it or store it in their stash until a patch is released that changes the affix values in a way that only benefits them (highly unlikely) or the price is too low and the supply evaporates instantly and players who really want those items for their build have no opportunity to get what they want no matter how much they want it.

>conflicting modes make the item more expensive while making it worse
That sounds about right. Why should an item with shit mods be more sought after? If the case where you would need to buy such an item, there would be no supply of a cheaper better item. In most cases, your shit rolls aren't rewarded and that's how it should be. This isn't in any way an argument against my idea, it's just different from the current system.

>Fixed prices are retarded in general but your specific system is especially bad by just having values for mods.
You haven't supported this statement in any way. You're only stating how things will work differently. In some cases a player would get far more currency than they would in the current system, in some less. Different =/= worse, it means different if you think it's worse you need to support your statement. All you've done above is restated your opinion on what item's should be worth which in my system no longer matters.

>certain popular unique chest goes for 40c
>same chest w/ 5L goes for 100c
>jeweller's touch is 20c
how has this not been corrected already? Free money for me

>That sounds about right.
>Bad items should be expensive and good items should be cheap
never go full retard

>They don't need to be. The value of an item doesn't need to perfectly reflect how powerful it is. [...]
Missing the point. The tier of the unique according to its rarity was never in question here. I'm talking about one specific unique who has, for example, a defensive mod and an offensive mod. Should those be weighed equally? If not, why? If one player chooses to use said unique for defensive purposes, why should he be favored or not over another who chooses to use it for offensive purposes? It is not "my" opinion of the unique that is in question here. Such a unique would be designed to be used by various builds and types of players (the ones that prioritizes defense, the ones that prioritizes offense). A system that imposes a weighted price on such a unique would take away much of the complexity of its design.

>Nothing you posted rebuts anything in a predetermined price system.
'Rebut' is not a verb. The noun is rebuttal, the verb you're looking for is refute. Don't ask people if English is their first language, if I, as non native English speaker, have to correct you on your grammar. You dumb catshitter.

An item with conflicting mods is conflicting under any system, denying that only shows further proof you don't know the first thing about the game. How would your system price an excellent CI item (tri-res, no life, high ES) that also happens to have a t1 chaos resistance? Is it worth more or less than if it were the same, except for that chaos resistance mod? Do you create more rules, more exceptions for each and every conflicting combination?

shh don't tell them idiot

Retards overprice to their own detriment. You can 5l something for far less than 60c worth of fuses even if you use vorichi.

>And the lack of correlation between metagame-value and atomic deterministic pricing means you have little incentive to attempt selling those
The incentive is demand just as in the previous system. Niche items have less demand in the current system which makes them harder to sell. In my system some niche items will have demand and cost more and still be purchased, thus netting the player more currency than in the current system. In some situations an item a player would previously have bought will cost too much, they will buy a different item instead and players will keep that item instead. It's the same idea, shifted to a different item.

>Its unfun because the tension behind item valuation is deflated due to atomic deterministic pricing that is unconnected from metagame-value usefulness
The tension you mean, "lookup price on poe.trade and price accordingly". That's what 99% of the trading population does and what is suggested every time a price inquiry is made.

>No it can't because demand simply makes mods worth more to players who are willing to pay more so other players will sell the items to them
Desirable map mods determine which ones players roll for more. Desirable affix tiers determine which ones players craft for more. Everything can be reduced down similarly.

> If the value of your algorithm is off by a small margin then the price is either too high for players to be willing to pay for the item so sellers will just have to vend it
It doesn't matter at all as the algorithm doesn't need to perfectly reflect your opinion of item value. The value of the item directly corresponds to the sum of its mods. Players will choose items that at the time seem to fit their value better based on their subjective opinion of value.

I didn't. I also happen to know this item is going to see a huge spike in demand soon as well

Luckily there are people in this world who search and buy for convenience sake

>I'm talking about one specific unique who has, for example, a defensive mod and an offensive mod. Should those be weighed equally?
It ultimately doesn't matter because the system doesn't seek to perfectly reflect the value of a mod. So long as the valuation is consistent across mods, players will be able to compare item values and determine the best deals, most bang for the buck, etc.

>If one player chooses to use said unique for defensive purposes, why should he be favored or not over another who chooses to use it for offensive purposes?
Again, this reduces down to thinking the system has to perfectly reflect power. It doesn't. The current system doesn't. For the longest time players were capable of clearing everything with a 20c Flameblaster compared to an all Mirror build. There's no reason to conclude the system suggested has to perfectly balance the inherent value of offensive and defensive mods. Many, many different combinations will arise from it some favoring one or the other based on value.

>'Rebut' is not a verb. The noun is rebuttal, the verb you're looking for is refute. Don't ask people if English is their first language, if I, as non native English speaker, have to correct you on your grammar. You dumb catshitter.
Saying, "Nothing you posted rebuttal anything" is incorrect English, retard.

>How would your system price an excellent CI item (tri-res, no life, high ES) that also happens to have a t1 chaos resistance? Is it worth more or less than if it were the same, except for that chaos resistance mod?
Because the entire pricing system no longer encompasses your opinion on what should cost more or less, it doesn't matter. Just as in the current system, wealthly players will irrationally play inferior builds with expensive items.

>In my system some niche items will have demand and cost more and still be purchased

You are still avoiding any form of specificity regarding how this is accomplished. Basically "trust me guys! this will work, i wont say how, but i know it will!"

And you didnt address how your system combats bundling monopolies and artificial price manipulation, which pretty much defeats the notion of "fixed" pricing and brings us back to where we are now.

>Because the entire pricing system no longer encompasses your opinion on what should cost more or less, it doesn't matter. Just as in the current system, wealthly players will irrationally play inferior builds with expensive items.
And forgot to include the other part: Some items will be worth more/less in my system. You could find tons of examples of the former and latter but neither is an argument against it as in one case a player will become wealthier and the other poorer. Your point concludes some items will now be shit that should be good; no, they shouldn't. Players will seek better rolled items instead of accepting items with a bunch of shit mods except under worst case scenario.

>You are still avoiding any form of specificity regarding how this is accomplished
The only specificity needed is that the weight of an item's value is determined by the sum of its mods. This will undoubtedly create many different scenarios: some where items that were worth more before are worth less and less before worth more. This is called common sense. All you're doing is cherry picking an example where something you feel should be worth more is worth less. Guess what, sunshine? That's how the current system is and my system makes zero delusions about thinking everything would be perfectly priced according to power. It doesn't need to be.

>And you didnt address how your system combats bundling monopolies
Monopolizing an item is a strategy there's no reason to combat it.
>artificial price manipulation
The price can't be manipulated. The price is predetermined.

You still haven't made a single point that can't be EASILY refuted in fact you haven't even made a point but rather restated how it's different while failing to realize that's all you're doing.

>Desirable map mods determine which ones players roll for more. Desirable affix tiers determine which ones players craft for more.
so your goal with this system is to simply kill trading and force players to roll instead?

Just because you are terrified of human contact in acquiring items doesn't mean you should force your autism onto other people.

>It doesn't matter at all as the algorithm doesn't need to perfectly reflect your opinion of item value.
yes it does because if it is off slightly from the perceived value of players then either supply or demand instantly dwindles to nothing.

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>so your goal with this system is to simply kill trading and force players to roll instead?
Because undesirable map mods killed mapping? Your post makes absolutely zero sense.

>yes it does because if it is off slightly from the perceived value of players then either supply or demand instantly dwindles to nothing.
No, it's replaced by a better item. The item you currently hold in high regard will instead be replaced by an item that better fits the predetermined value : player's perceived value of worth ratio. Yes, some items in the current system won't be worth anything anymore, some worth more. That's different, not better or worse. The better part comes in the form of killing currency/item RMT and severely nerfing botting. Along with several other choice benefits.

>The price is predetermined.
you said your system affects pricing based on how often those mods are traded
now it's predetermined with no way to affect it

i guess it's pretty easy to think your system is perfect when it waffles between how it works as soon as anyone asks a question, but actually implementing a non-deterministic black box that outputs the correct answer no matter what the inputs are is actually much harder to do than you think.

>It ultimately doesn't matter because the system doesn't seek to perfectly reflect the value of a mod.
So it's flawed and useless. It imposes a determined price to all players, without having the means to accurately reflect an item's value in most cases.
For such an idealized system, you keep admitting its shortcomings.

>The current system doesn't.
Yes it does. If the meta favors defense over offense, or the opposite, then the market will accurately reflect the price of such a unique with a high defensive stat and a low offensive stat. 60% spellblock Rathpiths were extremely valuable when block was meta. It's not anymore and their price has tanked to a more reasonable value. Players no longer have to pay a luxury tax for a stat that is less useful in the current meta.

>Saying, "Nothing you posted rebuttal anything" is incorrect English, retard.
Yes, the correct English in context would have been to say "Nothing you posted refutes anything" but you said "Nothing you posted rebuts anything."
You can't even speak your own language you fucking tool.

>Because the entire pricing system no longer encompasses your opinion on what should cost more or less, it doesn't matter. Just as in the current system, wealthly players will irrationally play inferior builds with expensive items
Great, so a ton of currently useful but average rare items would become straight up useless under your system just because they happen to have a conflicting affix that drives their value up when it should drive it down. A system that cannot accurately estimate an item's value on an individual basis is straight up garbage. Just another example of how simple imput breaks your perfect system and bring it to its knees.

If you care to attack your strawman for a little while longer, lemme know. I got better things to do.

>I dont need to be specific about how it works!

MOST of the comments against your system and arguments about are pretty much because you refuse to be specific about how it actually determines atomic pricing.

>The price can't be manipulated.

I own X very metagame-valuable item which commands average atomic deterministic pricing

So i bundle it with crap items with atomistically-expensive mods i rolled with alts.

There you have, pricing manipulation in no way different from how it currently happens.

>I can refute all!

Circular arguments aren't refutation. You are simply trying to evade arguments with gud ol deflection and claims about unstated pricing mechanics

>So it's flawed and useless. It imposes a determined price to all players, without having the means to accurately reflect an item's value in most cases.
>For such an idealized system, you keep admitting its shortcomings.
You're implying that prices have to perfectly equal their worth knowing full well that's impossible and I will add and defend unnecessary as proven by the current system. Players will still buy your Mirror item even though your Mirror item clears no faster than my Cheap item. The goal was never stated to create an infallibly perfect reflection of every item value so I have no idea why you would think it be a good point to make as you certainly haven't proven it by your posts.

>If the meta favors defense over offense, or the opposite, then the market will accurately reflect the price of such a unique with a high defensive stat and a low offensive stat
Define "accurately". The foundation of your argument falls apart with the fact that objectively inferior items often cost more/less than objectively superior items. If offense and defense is accurately portrayed then this is a contradiction. An extremely powerful defensive item can cost far more/less than an extremely powerful offensive item as this isn't in any way a universal rule.

>Yes, the correct English in context would have been to say "Nothing you posted refutes anything" but you said "Nothing you posted rebuts anything."
Use rebuts correctly in a sentence.

>Great, so a ton of currently useful but average rare items would become straight up useless under your system just because they happen to have a conflicting affix that drives their value up when it should drive it down. A system that cannot accurately estimate an item's value on an individual basis is straight up garbage. Just another example of how simple imput breaks your perfect system and bring it to its knees.
And replaced by a different item. Replacing =/= bring to its knees, fucking retard.

How much more verbal abuse and logical smackdowns can catshitter take in before he breaks and disappear for another week? Or does his autism make him impervious to all forms of criticism?

At this point he must know and understand the glaring faults and shortcomings of fixed trade, but is too invested in trying to be right that he will keep making vague replies, avoiding any mention of his pricing mechanics, and indulging in circular arguments that dont "prove him wrong" because he refuses to make actual statements of anything but the abstract objectives of his system.

Basically he is baiting people.

>MOST of the comments against your system and arguments about are pretty much because you refuse to be specific about how it actually determines atomic pricing.
I've stated the extent of what needs to be said to defend my position. Asking for more won't receive an answer. If I need to be more specific, you do too.

>So i bundle it with crap items with atomistically-expensive mods i rolled with alts.
Yes you'll be forced to perform a circus act every single time you try and subvert the system. That's kinda the point.

>Circular arguments aren't refutation
You have yet to provide a valid argument so no circles can be made.

>That's different, not better or worse.
it's actually objectively worse because it's a massive restriction on items that are worth trading due to your "no one is allowed to communicate or haggle i hate human interaction REEEEE" system when there are already massive restrictions on items that are worth trading simply due to their quality (aka most item drops are crap)

these types of effects are actually even worse than they appear because reducing trade makes a lot of players simply stop trading because it's so much of a hassle fighting the system in addition to everything else that they simply give up.

Man its scary how i can predict what his reply will be like here >I've stated the extent of what needs to be said to defend my position

So your system:

still allows scams

still allows price manipulation

still allows rmt and botting. just with a different approach to it

All with the downside of trading being even more annoying, people being even more clueless what their shit is really WORTH, and of course, no sharing items between friends.

Yeah real convenient.

>it's actually objectively worse because it's a massive restriction on items that are worth trading due to your "no one is allowed to communicate or haggle i hate human interaction REEEEE" system when there are already massive restrictions on items that are worth trading simply due to their quality (aka most item drops are crap)
No where did I state communication would be gone. 99% of haggling in PoE is some retard lowballing your fixed price and the majority of trading in PoE is pricing according to the indexer.

It doesn't restrict the ability to trade items, either. If anything it enhances it as some players who would otherwise not know of item value may try and sell something because it has a value on it and accidentally wind up selling something someone wants.

>these types of effects are actually even worse than they appear because reducing trade makes a lot of players simply stop trading because it's so much of a hassle fighting the system in addition to everything else that they simply give up.
There's nothing to fight. You pay the price of the item. That's it.

>still allows rmt and botting. just with a different approach to it
The only way to effectively RMT in PoE is to buy stacks of currency. Tell me, retard, how will the average player buy stacks of currency now? Players do this because it's convenient. It will be the opposite of it.

Botting? Yes you can still do it but the advantage gained from doing it now will be a joke. Whereas before botters have entire rings setup with hundreds of accounts all capable of rapidly shifting their entire bot rings worth of currency to a single "messenger" account in a matter of seconds. Now they would have to painstakingly save thousands of junk items in a feeble attempt to subvert the predetermined price of items.

>Players will still buy your Mirror item even though your Mirror item clears no faster than my Cheap item.
The fact that mirror-tier rares even exist and are a source of revenue for the top 0.1% is a direct testament of what (standard) players want: prestige "perfect" items that are the result of thousands of orbs poured into making it "perfect." Your system has no answer for that desire: it drives mediocre items prices up and bring mirror-tier items prices down, ignoring the concept of their price being a function of their prestige: they're the absolute best existing in realm. Your system cannot evaluate prestige. Players will.

>The goal was never stated to create an infallibly perfect reflection of every item value
In the current system, an item's value is decided by the meta, which itself is decided by tens of thousands of players. If your system cannot do better, it's worse, regardless of its intended contrived idealistic goal. If it's worse, it's shit.

>Define "accurately". [...]
I'm not comparing a unique to all other uniques. I'm comparing one unique to other rolls of that unique. Your system cannot keep up with the meta, or has to price that unique according to a predetermined meta it decides to push. This is not interesting for players choosing to go against that meta. The so called "force meta" is what drives players away, not the ability for some to manipulate the market.

>Use rebuts correctly in a sentence.
You used it wrong. If I can see it, any native English speaker can (but not you, because you're dumb).

>And replaced by a different item. Replacing =/= bring to its knees, fucking retard.
A lot of PoE's itemization flavor and complexity is that even mediocre rares or rares with conflicting affixes can be valuable to someone, and they should be worth something. Your system would only be able to quickly shift around generic mediocre rares with no answer for a simple example of a decent rare with a conflicting affix.

the most amazing part about this is that people as retarded as this guy have actually tried doing fixed price systems in big budget MMOs
and every time it completely destroys the market, trading more or less instantly dies.