So Veeky Forums

Why buy a e46 when you can get a e36 m3?

325 automatic, unless you're a beta cuck

honestly there is not much newer in that price range. like maybe i could get a 2010-2011, but it would be a total shit box.

because i don't want to pay insurance or up keep on a performance sports car. I'm still entry level AF and my credit needs to be rebuilt or I'd just go for a 10K certified used Focus or Cruze

the difference between a 325 or 330 is like 0.5 seconds in acceleration time (7.1sec 0-62 mph for the 325i, 6.5 for the 330), the 325 gets slightly more mpgs
just get the best one you can find for the price, service history is advised
honestly the e46 is the best used mid size sedan you can get under 10k

cool, this is what i figured. they're both really common and typically the same price.

Think i'm gonna go ahead and get the ball rolling on finding one. I've been seeing them all over for a about 18 months now

anybody elese have any input?

Serious questions: I thought that these things were expensive to repair, and required extensive maintenance, and that an E46 with over 70-80k miles was not to be trusted?

Yeah sure, why not? I'd recommend an old A3 but any povo-spec luxury Euro model will do.

>"Oh, he has a Beemer, how upmarket!"

An E36 325i coupe would be cooler, though.

If it's absolutely fucked or the service record is sketchy don't even think about it. But if you've got a full service record coming with it and you're willing to continue maintaining it, it's smooth(ish) sailing.

Constant preventative maintenance is second nature to the krauts. They're an anal bunch by nature and didn't think twice about lazy Anglos and clueless housewives buying them when developing them.

this is exactly the kind of info i'm looking for.

i've owned a few mk iv vee dubs so i know about that german life style. i'll likely only own it for a year or two as my finances come into order and my student loan balance decreases

do it lad

false information spread by hillbillies who don't own them and women who don't know how to do their own maintenance

brand new OEM parts are very expensive. used parts in nice condition are widely available and both cheap to source and easy to install. any issue you can conceivably have has been well-documented on the internet with photos, videos, and detailed step by step instructions

if you buy a well kept car with records to show for it, and keep up with fluid changes and preventative maintenance it's about as expensive to own as a honda or a chevy

what happens is people hear a weird sound, take it to the dealership, and believe all the wild lies and drag themselves to the bank to get a loan to pay for the intensive labor and parts. in reality it was probably a leaky vacuum line and a cracked pump mount that they fixed for 50 bucks while laughing

when people say a car "requires a lot of maintenance", what they mean is "it requires maintenance". when they say 'my honda is low-maintenance' what they're actually saying is "I literally never perform maintenance on my honda, but it hasn't exploded so that's good"

if you have any questions about very specific part by part maintenance items or buyer's checklist I can elaborate

My dad has one with 175,000 miles on it he bought used probably in 2007-8. No major problems. I believe he replaced the fuel pump.

Still shifts beautifully (auto). Maintenance is more costly though.

no they're just poorly built

please don't excuse poor engineering with actual maintenance. there's no reason for using the cheapest possible rubber and plastic on everything that a japanese/american car would use metal. to their credit bmw is nowhere nearly as bad as audi/vw, mercedes, and newer porsches

i own a e36 m3 i should know here's the crappy plastic/rubber bits i've ran into (everything mentioned below is plastic in some way that fails)

>clutch pivot pin holding fork into bell housing, 850csi uses a steel one that can be substituted
>clutch slave cylinder
>clutch pedal and bushings, why most e36s have a pedal that "leans" to one side if original
>seat motor gears
>bushings (literally all of them if they're original, diff/subframe ones are a big one that's neglected)
>rubber engine and trans mounts can get old and "sink/settle" despite not being torn
>guibo/center bearing support (never seen one done on a older rwd japanese/american car car but common on bmws)
>balljoints (WHO THE FUCK DOES THIS LETS PUT PLASTIC IN THE CUP OF A BALLJOINT LOL)
>water pump impeller (newer composite ones arent as bad)
>thermostat housing/water pump pulley/coolant expansion tank (all can crack and break/leak)
>radiator end tanks splitting
>plastic valve covers on m52/s52

i personally wouldn't bother if it wasn't a ///m car

70-80k is too low
a 120-150k E46 would have all the worn and broken stuff recently replaced and would be prepared to do many more miles
I've owned 5 BMWs, two E46s and only one of my bmws has a been sub 200k mile car

oh yeah i forgot

>door panel clips (will rattle and glue on door panel will come undone)

to be fair too the newer cars aren't as bad. if its just gonna be a commuter though i'd rather get the nicest stockish wrx or tsx i could find.

Same engine as the E46 unless we're talking about the V8.

some of these are valid for the E46, some are not

for one, I don't dig the plastic valve cover. I've never seen one leak or warp with properly cared for gaskets either. at 130k, my shocks and bushings are pretty much shot but my honda and chevy were the same way. clutch pivot pin is still plastic but can be easily substituted with a steel or brass one, and I see no record at all of my clutch having ever been replaced yet the fit and operation are still very solid. my expansion tank leaks but very slowly, at worst I have to top it off once a month

all of those points could be worse in a poorly maintained example but if they're in good order they shouldn't turn you away. at worst, I look at slowly upgrading and refreshing parts as a fun weekend activity considering they're not actually failing left and right

thanks a ton, f/o/lks!

i'll prolly post pictures and a sad story about my old car when i get it in a month or so.

Carbon buildup

dude, there's a huge difference between the e36 and the e46. Ive owned 2 e36's and they had all the problems you mentioned. I currently dd an e46 sedan and had none of those. It actually still feels like a newish car. (especially for a 15 year old car)

>pic not mine but semi related. The e46 is pretty timeless compared to the e36

carbon build up from what/where?

he's obviously talking about the carbon splitter on the m3

not even looking for an m3 lol

E46 is right before BMW became absolute shit.
Things will fail (probably interior shit more than anything else) and parts won't come that cheap, but they at least will be accessible.

Make sure the water pump is replaced. Check for play.
Inspect for cracks in the chassis near the rear subframe mounts.

how are they for stuff like auto-x and mountain roads?

always concerned they'd be a little heavy

>~3300 poounds
>Heavy
Eh, not really. You need to be more concerned that the car's chassis can handle that, make sure you get the rear subframe braced and repaired before you really beat on it. There's probably more to it than that but that's all I know about E46's.

I mean i'm talking like mountain drives 6 times a year and maybe a solo II event annually.

if i were to get another DD down the road, then it would be time to get wild.

and like, idk, my focus only weights lik 2800 and i feel like that's heavy. granted it's only got 110 hp :/

My 2003 E46 325 emptyi curb weight is 3050 lbs, thats not heavy for a 6cyl 5 seater sedan.
The subframe cracks were usually common among early M3s but for autox you might want to have a look at it

youtu.be/hvyfSpHpx6A

something to consider. though i can imagine the stiffer suspension and considerable amount of HP that thing makes had something to do with it

E46s are some of the most common cars in my area and i've never seen one with a cracked subframe. I've owned 2 e46s btw. It's not that terrible

I've owned a 6MT 2001 M3 coupe for 5 years now with 116k miles on the clock currently. First three years was a dedicated track car. Ran her hard but always maintained it well. I've driven it as a daily since December and have put almost 20k on it since then.

Never a major issue with it.

Only things that have put me down were a failed seal in the passenger brake caliper and my fuel pump. Other than that it had always been minor things (hood release cable; headlight bulb socket; etc).

I did chase what I thought was a vacuum leak or a dying MAF sensor, but turned out to be the front throttle positioning sensor.

E46 is a solid generation. I'm actually gonna grab another M3 to let sit. Estoril, Laguna, PY w/ slick top or some other special variant in of course manual.

I like E9X M3's as well but performance in the E46 is still very satisfying and aesthetically better than any other M3 gen imo..

And OP not even M3's are money pits and I'm not wealthy saying this. M54 engine E46's are even cheaper to work on so you're good.

I have a friend who is a BMW specialist and i certainly wouldn't buy a car without having him take a look.

E46 and E36 M3s dominate autocross. A 330ci or 325i could still be competitive though.

I no longer track but I hit up mountains often.

Think of a 330+ horsepower gokart that's comfortable, revs to over 8k, and sounds like the devil growling when you have the throttle bodies fully-open.

I run 245s on the rear of mine having OEM CSL (not ZCP. My width in front matches CSL ones) wheels f/r obviously.

Tighter cornering feels like too much tire imo. It wants to grab and oversteer no matter how well you try balancing the car.

Other than that this car can outhandle 99% of other cars on the road and it's 15 yr old.

been a great discussion so far, anybody else have input?

anybody :3

>Want E46 as a comfy daily to complement my weekend car
>Hear that the automatics in BMW pre E90 just completely shit themselves because of some BS lifetime fill of tranny fluid

Is this true

E46 M3's SMGII("auto") gearboxes are the only one's plagued with issues. Has nothing to due with the tranny nor lifetime fluid.

Never heard of constant problems with auto M54 (non-M) E46's.

Manual M3's have lifetime fluid as well and there's never been a reported failure of the transmission in the history of the car.

I just read up on wiki that between the 325i and the 330i, the 325i is a whole 2 seconds slower. In the grand scheme I really don't give a shit. Moreover, I'm assuming that the notion of VANOS being miserable/unreliable and the plastic bits explode spontaneously are just meme?

I'm at over 116k still without an overhaul on mine. The design of the VANOS on the M54 (non-M engine) and S54 are different in both design and quality (imo) of the parts used. The S54 being much better quality that the M54 VANOS. The M54 reminds me of the plastic internal components of an RC car. Everything about them screams cheap.

Issues with the S54/M3 are intake and exhaust cam bolts loosening and sometimes shearing off which rarely result in them getting lodged between one of the sprockets and timing chain which disables the engine and requires a rebuild.

There is a hub connected onto the exhaust side camshaft that has two tabs that protrude into the oil pump disk (part that circulates oil throughout the VANOS) that will also sometimes break off due to spacing between the edges of the oil pump disk and the two tabs. Like the cam bolts, these hub tabs can sometimes find their way in between the exhaust side sprocket and timing chain causing failure of the engine.

Imo, you have to be an unlucky fucker to have either happen. Sure they break - how often who knows - but the majority of the time any pieces will work their way down into the oil pan and that's it.

I cannot speak much of the M54.

All this sounds terrifying.

You'll probably spend twice as much on repairs.

Well the S54 alone can be fully rebuilt and bullet-proofed for under $600. The M54 is much cheaper to overhaul. Hundreds probably.

I have everything already for an overhaul aside from parts that require a core charge, but mine is fine.

I have zero rattling/knocks/ticks again at 116K and I even have a lot of track miles. Only ticks are from my injectors which are only doing their job. 100% normal.

Again I cannot speak for the M54.

I'm only $4K into my rebuild and that included a new OEM bumper cover that alone was $1,300. My cooling system was all OEM parts and a Mishi radiator that was $520 alone. OE parts are a lot cheaper and the M54 will be hundreds cheaper than the M3 with everything you do. This was all DIY work except for the bumper.

I pretty much only have the VANOS and diff service on mine togo and then I'm only oil changes and valve adjustments for a long time. Probably 50 to 75k miles.

MAYBE connecting rod bearings and engine mounts need to be done up but that will be it. My rod bearings were done under recall in the 30k mile range. Not sure if they need to be done again. Lot of conflicting info online.

>Live in an apartment complex with no garage or tools

NOPE

Yeah that would suck. No way you could own the M3 like that. Fucking grills and everything can be yanked right off.

Probably one of the easiest cars to strip down. You wouldn't believe it.

You're probably more technically inclined than I am, so you may not have the same worries as I do, but here's my e46 story:

When I was hired to my "real adult" job I came across an 04 325XI at 41k miles. Body was perfect and looked great all around. I've had it for 3 and a half years now and I've put around 33k miles on it.

I completely understand why people were telling me to think about the purchase looking back. At times it makes me anxious, as a lot of maintenance came up pretty quickly around 60k, but it's been a great car to this point.

I've had to replace this over the past 3 years totaling me around $4200 in parts and labor.
> valve cover gasket
> thermostat
> driver's window regulator x2 (First replacement was a knock-off. Bought OEM parts after that)
> rf control arm, axle shaft, lower control arm bushing (fucking potholes) $$$
> serpentine belts
> tensioner assy. & idler pulley
> rf lower ctrl arm & bushing (pt. 2, fucking potholes) $$$
> both rear coil springs (failed the same way on each side) $$$
> oil filter housing gasket

Currently I'm having rf control arm looked at for the 3rd time because of a torn axle boot.

If I would have gotten this car for under 5k i wouldn't feel so bad about all this maintenance, but the dealer saw me coming and got me for 3x that back in '12. Young and dumb.

you get good credit by paying off debt....?

Yours?

Aw is gorgeous.

Mine is TiAg metallic.

nah, mile was same exact car full csl but silver grey..sold it a year or two ago and downgraded to a zhp now. Call me crazy, but in the real world its a better car.