After saving up for 4 long years, I have $80,000 set aside to spend on a car...

Thank you!

Also, I am not going to mention which car I am looking at to avoid the shit storm. I don't need a gimmick car though since it's going to be a daily driver.

also, I'm LPG that this user was talking about

What car is it? different cars require different tactics to negotiate a deal, just ignore any attempts to throw shit

>Here is the short version
>
>
>>Do any of you work at dealerships or are really good at buying cars?
>Yes and Yes
>
>>How can I get the best deal?
>You negotiate a financed deal, then pay the loan off in full on the first payment.
>
>>I assumed dealerships would be willing to give me a discount if I pay in cash
>Absolutely fucking not on a 80K sale, all medium/large dealerships HATE cash sales
>
>If you have specific questions, or would like more details, ask away user
That's what I've heard. Have you ever dealt with customers paying in lump sum? What was the general mentality? I figured you would be happy since it's an easy sale. And do car salesmen get any kickbacks from financing?

I've read both that car salesmen don't give a fuck about if you finance or not and car salesmen will get commission for selling financing. Wouldn't the finance manager be the only one losing out money?

(thread)

FUUUUUUCKING NORMIES!!!!!! GET THE FUCK OFF MY BOARD!!!!! LURK MOAR!!!!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

>Have you ever dealt with customers paying in lump sum?
Yes, 93,000 to buy a Porsche I believe was the largest amount

>What was the general mentality?
we hated, just like all dealerships do, and made him pay full sticker

>I figured you would be happy since it's an easy sale
A sale on which we basically make no money

>And do car salesmen get any kickbacks from financing?
The actual salesperson? Usually not, or if they do, it's something laughably small. The sales/finance manager receives commission from the financing, and the dealership as a whole receives monthly bonuses based on certain fiance goals.

Let me back this up a second and start from the beginning, since I get the feeling you know very little about how cars sales work user, so follow me on down to my next post

I haven't settled on one model quite yet, but I'm looking at Benz ans BMW.

I know the luxury car dealerships won't budge much, but I'm looking at the used market and live in a fairly big city, so I feel like I have some wiggle room to get a good deal.

I always pull the "I'll pay in cash if you can do this price" shit when I'm buying appliance or furniture. I was hoping to do the same with cars.

wait wait LPG

>You negotiate a financed deal, then pay the loan off in full on the first payment.

arent care loans simple interest already built into the loan?

isn't that self defeating? I understand there's a kickback from financing to the dealership from the financial institution, but excellent credit rating is still around 4% interest atm, right?

4% on an 80k car is 3200. Is the dealership deal really going to be more than 3200 off what the cash price out the door vs financing would be for the buyer to care?

Just get one of these. They're cheap and reliable.

Car salesman at a big dealership here, you seem like one of those total moron customers that have no idea about anything. Also,

>dropping $80k in cash on a used car

Most retarded thing I've heard in a while.

Can't you agree to a price and pay the money before you talk to the financing manager?

>"Can you do 70000 that's what I can afford"
>*after a bunch of back and forth*
>"Allright user congrats on your new car! 72000 it is. Now let's walk over to the finance manager"
>Oh actually I have money.
*hand over money*
>Fuck.

They're willing to fuck you, so fuck them back. Do not mention the payment method until after you decide on a price. If they try to change the price walk away and they will call you back guaranteed.

You don't understand financing. If he pays it off, there is no $3200 payment.

>
>Car salesman at a big dealership here, you seem like one of those total moron customers that have no idea about anything. Also,
>
>>dropping $80k in cash on a used car
>
>Most retarded thing I've heard in a while.
Better than dropping 80k on a new car. Care to explain why it's a bad idea? I don't buy new cars period.

Yeah that's a terrible idea- take out a loan for 120k and buy em new obviously.

>taking car buying advice from used car salesmen
Lmao

>4% on an 80k car is 3200. Is the dealership deal really going to be more than 3200 off what the cash price out the door vs financing would be for the buyer to care?
Cash price out the door will be FULL sticker PLUS tax/tags/fees. And yes, you are highly likely to get more than 3200 off the price by agreeing to finance. You could easily get 5-7K off plus fees waived, plus on a simple interest loan, you could pay the loan off the next day, before you make the first payment on the car

So let's start with the biggest fact, most of the profit a dealership makes isn't from the cars, it's from backend through things like extended warranties, financing, accessories, dealer add ons, and after the sale service/service packages

On a typical financed sale, the finance manager will make commission on the loan, and your loan contract will count towards the dealerships monthly finance goal. If the dealership gets XXX number of finance contracts in a month, they receive a bonus as well. So, by dropping cash, the manager gets no commission, and you don't help the dealership make one of their most lucrative monthly bonuses, so they have no incentive to be competitive on the price.

With monthly bonuses sometimes being a huge chunk of a dealership's gross profit, a finance manager may be willing to cut deeply into the price of the car, or make other concessions, because his net gain from the end of the month bonus will be the far better option for the dealership financially. Always agree to finance, make sure it's a simple interest loan, then simply pay the loan off before the first payment

>Can't you agree to a price and pay the money before you talk to the financing manager?
The moment you tell them it's a cash sale, they will rip the sales contract up and write you up a cash price offer. Have literally watched it happen in real life

I sell cars for Toyota, we show numbers on one sheet showing term, rate, cash down, price of car. All at once. Before we start negotiating I just say something like "okay and are you planning on financing, leasing, or paying cash?" "Financing" "alright, thinking probably a standard 5 year term? How much cash down do you think?" And then we come back with everything on one paper ready to go. Nobody really hides the fact they're paying cash if they are. Yes our dealership makes more when we finance, but I'd say it is not necessarily going to get you a worse deal if we know before hand you're paying cash.

I always laugh when I think back to the time I wrote a $10,000 check for a down payment at a Mazda dealership. They tried everything to talk me out of it. They pleaded with me to make the check out to $9,999. You see, if you make a cash purchase over $10,000 they don't get the money until the IRS does an investigation. Part of the "drug wars".

>I'd say it is not necessarily going to get you a worse deal if we know before hand you're paying cash.

Your finance manager thinks otherwise, trust me

> then simply pay the loan off before the first payment

does this get you out of the interest?

You never pay the interest up front. Jeebus. The interest accumulates monthly.

My finance managers have zero say in what me, the customer, and the desk agree on. I'm thinking either your dealership is just different than ours by quite a bit, or it's mostly the fact that you work at a used only lot. we care more about wether or not they'll be servicing with us, or their local Toyota.

If a dealership pulled that kind of shit on me (ripping up a contract which is a total dick move) I'd walk out. You don't want to give people like that your business. Completely unprofessional.

Here's what you do. "I am willing to pay (x amount). If you agree to the price, I will pay you cash and you can have this car out of your lot in 30 minutes. If you don't, that's fine I will go to another dealership"

Some dealerships won't budge but one definitely will. It works, user that's how I got my last car.

Longpostguy has legit advice but it's different for every dealership. If they're having a slow month they will not let you walk away. That's retarded.

something reliable? of all the cars I've gone through, fusion 2006 hasnt failed me since and the funny part is I got it at an auction house for 15000.
nothing wrong with it.
if you want something to show off, then you got me beat.

He is talking out of his ass or he worked for a really shitty dealership.

No. We don't care if you're paying cash. When you pay cash, it's true that we don't make as much money. However. Consider that if I cut someone a good deal who are paying in cash

1) Customer leaves happy. Good reviews. Reviews matter in this day and age.
2) Zero chance of customer failing to get a loan.
3)One less car taking up space on my lot.

Go to a reputable good dealership and you will be fine. Also, don't bring literally cash. Bring a cashier's check. As long as you're upfront about paying cash from the get go we will absolutely give you a reasonable deal. Anytime a dealership throws shade at you because they won't make as much money, just walk away. Find a dealership who understand and care about the importance of customer satisfaction.

No, I won't sell a car to you at a loss, but shit, making a small profit is better than making none.

>My finance managers have zero say in what me, the customer, and the desk agree on. I'm thinking either your dealership is just different than ours by quite a bit, or it's mostly the fact that you work at a used only lot. we care more about wether or not they'll be servicing with us, or their local Toyota.

Who sits at your desk then? Close friend of mine works sales at a Toyota new-car dealership here in NC, and the desk (they call it the bridge) is literally a sales manager and a finance manager, and every single customer is hard sold on financing with Toyota, and the deal has to be signed off on by both guys before they pass it through.

I've talked with one of their sales managers over lunch multiple times, and their single biggest monthly bonus is the getting XX percentage of sales worked through Toyota financing, because they get a huge kickback for it. Second biggest bonus is total monthly sales goal. Service is a huge part, trust me I realize, it is for our business too

It can, but it mostly doesn't, simply because the processes by which dealerships make money has changed. Like you said, if it's a slow month, and they need the car to make a total sales goal, they might move. If they need another loan contract for the finance bonus, they are letting you walk.

I'm just speaking from experience here in my area, that on your average day, an all cash offer is likely to get you nowhere. I had a good friend try the old switcheroo you described, by talking down to a price, then offering cash. Chrysler dealership ripped the paperwork up in front of him. Ford and GM politely pointed to a small line of fine print stating the deal was contingent on financing through the dealership

>Find a dealership who understand and care about the importance of customer satisfaction.
Which is literally almost none of them. lpg is talking about what you are most likely to find, you are talking about some dream scenario that likely never happened

Large used dealership user, which I still work for part time. We move about 500 cars a month, so I would hardly call it shitty. And I have plenty of friends who work in sales and management at local flagship new car dealerships, so this is a game I have plenty of experience with

Never once have I seen someone get what I would consider a decent deal paying cash unless they were looking at cars in the 10K or less price bracket.

carmax but you pay a lot more for the customer service with their no haggle shit. their no haggle is above a lot of other dealers stickers as well. and they hit your credit like assholes it goes top down so they run it more than the 15x so it goes as negative on your credit report.

but if youre into customer service, thats the place to go

Lmao unless you live in Detroit or Gotham no reputable dealership is going to rip up the contract in front of you. Longpostguy is a ducking idiot. One of those college drop outs who works at a dealership for a year or two then moves on. Do not take his advice.

realcartips.com/cardealers/105-paying-for-a-car-in-cash.shtml

Just make the offer and if they turn it down walk away.

Dealerships with shitty salesmen like Longpostguy will have trouble meeting quota. Because they're doing shit like ripping up the contract in front of you.

Go to a dealership that gets enough business per month that they meet the financing quota without you.

Letting a customer walk away so you can meet the financing quota. That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. Is your dealership run by a complete moron or something?

Hahahahaha called it. He's not a real salesman he's a used car salesman.

Big difference between the two. OP do not take advice from him. He makes his living ripping off clueless morons. He's just trying to lead you to finance so more people fall for the trap.

Listen to Dave Ramsey tapes do not take out a loan. Cash is king. Just pay lump sum and save yourself the grief. If you don't go to a shitty second tier used car lot with dumbest salesmen who spend their free time posting on Veeky Forums, you will be able to get a good deal. Cash or financing.

Source I work at an actual car dealership not a scrub used car impound lot.

>Carmax
>expecting customer service
>getting anything close to a reasonable price

Carmax is known for a lot of things, but in in the NC market, customer service is not one of them

Finished my masters degree last month user. Selling cars is/was something I did for fun to pay for school, and because it was an extremely lucrative part time job, I don't have an ax to grind in giving advice

Your baby tier trolling aside, all successful, long term car salesman go to used, because it makes WAYYYYYY more money than new car sales, so if you're going to troll, you at least need to know something about the business. New hires/scrubs get sent to new car sales, so in the future, if you want to pull out the master car salesman troll, pretend to be a chain smoking, functional alcoholic who works used sales. Or a finance/sales manager going through his third divorce, those guys make decent cash, gives the story more credibility

>posts link shitting on lpg's advice
>literally the first line of the link you posted is "Many car buyers assume they will get a better deal if they pay cash - this is definitely not true."

so lpg was right all along, and your point is what exactly?

>so in the future, if you want to pull out the master car salesman troll, pretend to be a chain smoking, functional alcoholic who works used sales. Or a finance/sales manager going through his third divorce, those guys make decent cash, gives the story more credibility

looooool

>spending $80000 on a car
>on a car
>a car

im a poorfag and will probably never see $80k in cash in my entire life, but I could never imagine spending that much on a car because of depreciation. You're basically throwing $20k down the toilet OP. Buy a house or some stocks. Fuck.

its like this for most sales. i sell jewelry and people always assume theyll get a bigger discount for paying cash i just laugh and say if they apply for financing ill give them a bigger discount.

Everywhere is different man. I'm Toyota salesman again. Our desk is only sales managers. Trust me when I say the method of payment affects their very very rarely. Only if they're taking a lot of things into consideration on a front end profit loser deal. For example, I am internet sales, if we get somebody calling saying x dealership offered them 400 below invoice on a new Camry, we will either match it or beat it, set the appointment, and literally not even ask during that process wether or not they are financing or paying cash, unless it's to figure out if they're getting a rebate or not that's is conditional to the method of payment. I'm not making anything up, our finance managers make money holding rate and selling aftermarkets and products just like yours do, but ours are 100% seperate from the negotiation process. Also, on the note of used cars being the path for successful salesman, at our store, which is a fairly large dealership, we have 4 sales staff that have been there 14+ years. One is a manager who used to sell, the other three are new car floor sales people. We have about 13 or so floor new, 5 internet, and only 5 floor used sales people. Yes, gross per unit is much higher for our used cars, but they also have far far less traffic than new. Our top 4 or so sales people in terms of volume and income are all new. I could have sold used if I wanted, but prefer new. Although internet technically does both, it's far more new cars than used. Areas/companies/brands are all going to be different.

True, it's all going to have variation depending on your market, what you sell and the mentality of the dealership you work for. My friend who works for toyota here in NC purposefully went from new sales to used sales because he makes more money running used, and that seems to be the case for most in this market. Plus, it's much easier to make money on used when your whole dealership is used, like I said, we typical move around 500 units every month

The only friend in the business I have who WANTS to stay in new cars works for a high volume Nissan dealership that pretty much only deals in terrible credit customers because of the location, so he spends every month slinging as many Altima's and Sentra's as he can.

Although question, on your internet side of things, if a person calls you up and says "XXX dealership is offering me Rav-4 at this price" do you require them to provide proof or will you take them at face value? The local flagship Honda dealership near us has a similar policy that they will beat any written offer for an apples to apples vehicle for 500 dollars. Friend of mine simply got another honda dealership to write him up a buyer's order for a CR-V, he scanned it into photoshop, edited the pricing around, then scanned and emailed it to the Honda dealership here and they actually honored it

I'd recommend waiting. Because the new Gtr comes out next year so the 2009 and last gens will drop a lot

Probably not. Now if it was an all new design then yes. Prices would fall like a talking egg man perched on a wall.

But you can pick one up in the mid 40s now so I assume you could get lucky and pick one up for high thirtys or low 40s

You can get a used 2015 GT-R for low 80's now, hell they have one in Cary

autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=27713&endYear=2017&modelCode1=GT-R&showcaseOwnerId=0&makeCode1=NISSAN&startYear=1981&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=25&maxPrice=85000&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=[NISSAN[GT-R[]][]]&listingId=426751935&Log=0

This sort of depends on the financing system where op lives. In The dealership where i work, we often charge 1800bucks, for establishing the loan. Eurofag here

>Carmax is known for a lot of things, but in in the NC market, customer service is not one of them

Gotta say that I have gotten cars from them in Winston, and I've never had a bad experience, but I may have just been lucky.

for that money I'd steer clear of used cars over a year unless it was that of a relative or a close friend.
You can buy a brand new merc, audi or bimmer here for 80k cash from a dealer if that's the only criteria youre after. Only mercs that cost 80k used are g and s classes here. They drop in price right after they leave the dealership. Maybe you can look at one year used cars?

Hey, OP here- could you give me some tips on how to get a good deal when buying with cash?

I don't plan on going to a used car place so I think your advice would be applicable.

Also thanks for your help Longpostguy! Everything you said makes sense. I guess if I go to a used car dealership I'm flat out out of luck? I don't want to go to a business that won't appreciate my business. I have a car already.

>>spending $80000 on a car
>>on a car
>>a car
>
>im a poorfag and will probably never see $80k in cash in my entire life, but I could never imagine spending that much on a car because of depreciation. You're basically throwing $20k down the toilet OP. Buy a house or some stocks. Fuck.

My mortgage is just about paid off, my Roth IRA is maxed out- and the rest of my funds are split amongst a bunch of investments (vanguard ftw).

It's a tradeoff. Sure, that money could go to better use, but I want to drive a nicer car than what I have now.

Is spending 80k on a car a smart financial decision? No. It's not. Do I care? No. I can afford it.

I appreciate you trying to give me financial advice but I'm not here for that I just want to get the most use out of my money.

I'm in Texas so I have a lot of options.

I am not a fan of GTRs. As I said, I'm looking into either BMW (I like the M3) or Benz. I'm open to suggestions though.

Has to be a comfortable ride. Reliability is another big factor. Ideally I want a sedan so my kids can ride in the back but a 2 seater weekender only would also work. Cost of maintenance is not an issue.

DESU I haven't even begun visiting dealerships yet I just want to be meticulously prepared.

If someone is spending that much on a car it's a pretty safe bet they have those other things sorted out. Who cares about $20k when you're in that income bracket? I drive a $100k new car and have eaten at least $20k in depreciation after buying it late last year. I don't care, I'm rich.

OP here, what's your take on taking out a loan vs paying lump sum for a car?

>Has to be a comfortable ride. Reliability is another big factor.
So why are you getting a BMW or Benz?

I heard they only break down if you don't take it in for routine maintenance.

Do you have any other suggestions? I've been driving boring sedans all my life, I want a change.

How often do you want to "take it in for routine maintenance"?

I don't know. None of my friends have problems with theirs.

How often do you have to take it in?

>then simply pay the loan off before the first payment

Make sure that there is no prepayment penalty in the finance contract.

>max roth
>vanguard
>hate debt and want to pay cash
>live in texas
>hate GTRs
>like german cars

are you me?

OP I would recommend getting two cars, both lightly used: a top-of the line sedan from a company like ford or Toyota or VW. (for example, my taurus, which is a really nice, reliable car that gets me where I need to go and is cheap to fix because ford parts), and an entry-level Porsche like a 996 or a 987.

the ~10 year old Porsche are fairly reliable, and can be had for decent prices, but are fantastic to drive and will satisfy your inner Veeky Forums

Nice Ford Taurus with (2008 or newer, previous ones aren't as nice) 40k miles: $20k-ish
Used 996 or 987: $20k-40k
and look, you have $20k-40k left over for maintenance or anything you want to change on your cars.

don't get a used BMW, those are for successful drug dealers.

Thanks for the advice! I am going to keep the Camry for the foreseeable future.

Don't know much about Porsche to be honest- I always thought Boxter was the entry level?

The main thing for me is I don't have too much time to work on my cars, so I want something fun that I can drive to work. Porsche is quite tempting though.

I could always get a newer used Porsche if I forego the sedan, couldn't I? Ferrari and Lambo are out of the question. But a Porsche, I could manage that. Is there a good site with model info and pricing?

Buy a Cayman or a 997 911 Turbo or Turbo S or a nice S54 M Coupe or an NSX. Hell, you could get a ferrari. Buy something that won't depreciate.

Depends on if you want to improve your credit or not (and furthermore how good or bad your credit is currently). Paying lump sum for an expensive car can be a bit of a pain in the ass depending on your financial situation. I typically finance and overpay big time every month and pay off cars very quickly. You could like LPG said agree to financing and pay it off the next day, but that doesn't help your credit.

the boxster is the entry level, the 987 is the boxster from 2005-2010 or whenever they started making the newer bodystyle. I have one and its a great car.

the 996 is the late 90's to 2005 model 911 that a lot of Porsche guys don't love because its got an actual modern cooling system and funky headlights, but they are fast and I think they look good. They are cheaper than the rest so I count them as entry level.

If you don't want to work on your cars that is fine, because if you do the preventative maintenance the Porsche will be fairly reliable for a performance car (read: it will break if you are a shitty driver). Just be advised that it will be more expensive by a fuck ton than the Camry, and you need to find a Porsche mechanic if you aren't doing it yourself. It will be about the same cost as a BMW and less than a Mercedes.

You can get a newer Porsche, but they are a huge bump in price, and a very negligible, if any, bump in enjoyment. I would look at the 5-15 year old ones. And I would stick to the Boxster and the 911. Low miles is more important than year.

With Porsche though, you will become a Porsche guy. You almost have to. So go and read up on porsche, maybe introduce yourself in and let people who know more than I do steer you in the right direction.

A used Porsche would be a good choice. Just make sure that you don't get one with too many miles as they have a tendency to really fuck up at higher mileages since many Porsche owners hoon around in them (a bigger issue in turbo models than vanilla 911s). If I were you I'd get a 911 cabrio. Back seats (tiny but usable for your kids depending on how old they are), fun DD or weekend car and you have the Camry for when you need to get groceries or take a road trip. If you want a 2 seater you could get a top of the line Boxster or Cayman if you can live without the 4 seats. Any of these cars will make you very happy for a long time. Just buy one that is one or two years old so that you don't keep taking the brunt of the depreciation if possible.

Sorry guys was sleeping. Awake now at work. And not quite on that, we will beat a price but if it's absolutely ridiculous we are not required to honor it. I've had that happen where one of the super dealerships in the area was selling a Tacoma like 3500 below invoice. Which is nuts. I've never seen more than a 1500 loser and that was because we honored a mistake we made. And it was legit. Not sure why they'd do it. He had paperwork and a folder from the dealership with the guys card. We do not beat offers like that. We assume there's something weird going on, ask why the fuck they didn't buy it if the deal was that good, and then kick them out more or less. As far as getting a good deal wih cash, if it's a new car at a normal dealership I don't really see it being an issue, depending on the place, like LPG said, it might be a big deal and I'm not too experienced with that. I would just let them know that if you feel like you're being treated poorly because you're paying cash, that you will just go elsewhere. As a salesman, trust me, I do not give a fuck how you pay, I still want to sell you a car. You do have to remember to be reasonable, and understand that used cars will have a markup, it's not like new where they can rely on volume, they will make money on you. Look at book values online and stuff, enter in miles and conditions of the vehicles, check car faxes. if book values are $5-7,000 away from their asking price, they're charging too much and are making a huge deal on that car.

Thanks for this! I was getting the impression that if I walk in with cash, I would get the cold shoulder. Something that made no sense until LongPostGuy explained that he works at a shady used car dealership.

Yeah, I'm going to go to a reputable dealership. As I said I live in a major city so there's bound to be some shady ones, but I'll find a decent one.

If they start trying to upsell the financing I'll just walk out and find another one.

>As a salesman, trust me, I dot give a f how you pay, I still want to sell you a car

See that's what I thought. Not the whole "UGH WHY ARE YOU PAYING WITH CASH GET THE FUCK OUT NO DEAL FOR YOU" thing lonpostguy was saying.

>2016
>Taking advice from a used car salesmen

where the fuck did you go wrong user