/4xg/ - Stellaris and 4X Games General

There's a DLC and mods to enhance it.

I mean, unless you can actually use Culture/Religion/Diplomacy in some practical way to impede another person from wiping you off the map with their military in Civ 6 there's no reason to believe this principal will change. And I don't believe anything we've seen has suggested that you can do that. Whatever penalties you receive are just going to be minor annoyances that you can clean up by shitting out happiness buildings.

Obligatory.

Tugging one out.

Rerolling.

>Civ sends me a trade request
>Looks good so click accept
>He immediately gets butthurt and says I'm ripping him off

YOU SENT THE FUCKING REQUEST DIPSHIT!

...

endless space or stellaris?

Distant Worlds.

>tfw lebensrauming 2 of my neighbor's citadels at the same time
So this is the power of fascism. Not bad.

i got stellaris a few days ago, clocked up 40 hours already.

once you get a handle on fleet compositions the game because much more fun.

diplomacy is fucked, but diplomacy is completely fucked in every single grand strategy i've ever played.

>not Aurora 4X

I don't know about the others but get Stellaris on a sale.

And if you do, have a look at the mods, they are pretty much making a better game than Paradox

Aurora is too complex, I wouldn't suggest it to anyone.

I've started way too many of these so... Roll...

Need something to tide me over until 6 is released. It's the last hope for a quality 4x anytime this decade.

Remember that one time the Greek general Sun Tzu took the Balkans from England?

This meme of "small ship > big ship" needs to stop.

It's fucking retarded. Corvettes should not be able to take on battleships, it's just absolutely retarded and boring in every way.

>The Mumbles

Why shouldn't they be able to? And how is it more boring than current battleship blobs? At least this will force diversity.

the meme is based on actual events where smaller ships--destroyers and torpedo boats--DID engage and sink ships much larger than themselves.

in terms of spaceships the parallels of capability fall apart, but can sort of make sense? if you skew things the right way.
small ship with devoted space to better engines and few, powerful weapons could work, but if you're talking Stellaris I'm certain Paradox fucked it up and just gave a flat bonus to small ships engaging big ships because 'small = fast right and hard to hit!'

small does not mean fast, small means small. small and EXPENSIVE with the requisite tech means fast.

tl;dr I agree that shit is fucking stupid when it isn't done properly.

I'm gonna compare a handful of games I have and just throw some of my experience with them out there. feel free to call me a blog posting faggot

I have several issues with the idea that a corvette would be able to take on a battleship but I'm just going to list a couple of the more obvious, glaring problems I see with it.

1. There is no possible way the corvettes would be moving fast enough that a computer in an age where they are traveling faster than the speed of light would not be able to calculate precision shots from even the largest guns that are almost always accurate. Bigger guns being less accurate is also a meme with no basis in reality.

2. The meme that a battleship must be loaded with all large, slow, inaccurate guns. EVE Online somewhat falls to this meme as well. If we really built a battleship in space, it would be littered with weapons and missiles of all sizes.

Now I understand that they made certain design choices and they are doing certain things in the name of "balance" and all that. But that's also a problem, they're idiotic design choices and retarded idea of "balance" because muh multiplayer in a game mostly played by singleplaying autists is not a justification for the glaring issues that appear in every aspect of their game.

rant 1/2.

Forced diversity is as bad as no diversity by choice. why WOULD anyone build smaller ships if you could make a bigger, better equipped, and more effective ship instead?
It's a problem of game design. There isn't enough forethought put into "how do we encourage diversity of forces without forcing it on the player?"

In Endless Space there is no reason to build small ships unless you want a specific fleet or ship bonus which is rarely worth it. Unless you want fleets of cheap throwaways, but that literally applies to any game so its a half-assed point.

GC2 suffers the same problem as ES. There's no point in making small ships, unless you want to kit one for a specific fleet bonus to save space on your actual warships or you want to make a throwaway horde.

In Hearts of Iron 3 there's a Poor Screen Penalty on fleets that makes capital ships more vulnerable. A poor example as it IS forced but HoI3 is WW2, so its historically mostly right. And, generally speaking, a well-screened fleet does more damage with fewer casualties. Except when you get swarmed by CVs.

In Sins, you can build way more small vessels than capitals that are also magnitudes cheaper. There's also a cap on large ships. It's a bit ham-fisted but you can research that away quickly enough. Of course by end-game you'll probably have maxed out the capital counter anyways, so its a moot point with Sins.

In Space Empires 5 smaller vessels get a defensive bonus due to size, and can achieve a higher movement speed. So you can make picket scouts, tacklers or torpedo boats that are fast, hard to hit, or hard-counter those exact roles. I think its actually done right here.

I haven't played more than a couple hours of Distant Worlds, but it seems like there's nothing stopping me from making torpedo boats or fast escorts for large ships. But then again I could just make a bunch of big ships covered in guns. I'll have to play more to get a feeling for it.

tl;dr i'm a faggot

Stellaris is about civilizations evolving on planets spread throughout a galaxy. Each of these civilizations would have radically different ways of fighting and designing combat ships. The way to "balance" these things isn't to limit player and AI choices in the ship designs but have a better economy and tie the ships to that in better ways. The strategic resources and amount of minerals and energy credits you have access to would in both realistic and non realistic worlds impact the choices you make in building a fleet.

I'm fine with a civilization that has really developed their corvettes and small ships because, idk they live in a nebula so larger ships travel slower or some shit and they have a history of hunting in packs and that came through in their fleet design. While a different civilization with a history of building pyramids and large penis like buildings that masturbates to grand cathedrals and has access to some strategic minerals that allow for stronger ship structures invests more of their resources into massive battleships. While in a different part of the galaxy a civilization has evolved a sort of hive mind and their reflects in their building of carriers and orientation around deployment of smaller ships with larger command ships.

Stellaris almost got to this cool dynamic way of developing fleets with how different ethics traits and AI personalities would prioritize different module slots and different weapon loadouts. Instead of fleshing out the game and making that make sense in terms of economy balance they just decided "well we should just remove some player choice because balance is hard and our AI is shit".

I hate the hype I had for this game but I also hate the glaring issues that it has and the retarded design choices they made. My only hope is that one day there will be an HPM or MEIOU-like mod that adds a lot of complexity and dynamics to the game. Also more star wars and WH40k ship models

end rant 2/2

>No reason to build small ships in ES
>What are power modules

I think the best way to balance and encourage diversity without forcing it or allowing none at all is to tie it to the economy. A mineral rich empire with access to lots of strategic resources should be able to build lots of advanced battleships and wreck nerds and you can balance that by upkeep, so if a smaller nations starts using it's groups of corvettes/smaller ships to plunder and pillage your supply lines and resource worlds you'll potentially go bankrupt.

There are a ton of ways wiz and paradox could make the game more fun and dynamic but they insist on making it casual and limiting player choice.

I agree. It's on the designers to make the gameplay fit the world, not the other way around.

In reality, a large warship in space would have literally no trouble deleting a swarm of small ships from existence because it has every advantage in every category. Point-defense is anti-small-fast-thing, and everything is a missile in space.

yep, because at the end of the day someone has to get paid to build these things, and someone has to pull the rocks out of the earth/space rocks/whatever.

A space 4X game should really be an economy simulator first and then everything else.

>wolf pack torpvette fleets

Look at how they do it in Aurora, it's perfect

Any ideas for what the next endless legend should be?

is this still the RTS general? Blitzkrieg 2 on sale, buy y/n?

Yes.
I'd say so, but I'm biased against WWII games.

You mean the DLC?

more than 3 units per faction

Anyone plays Civ5 on linux?
for ages and still doesn't play nice with open-source radeon...
I need the LD preload workaround for steam to begin with, still, the game won't launch
even though I can start the game directly and seems to work well that way

Just a friendly reminder that no matter how well you'll do, you'll never be able to save Kharak.

I remember a lot of rumours in school about you being able to come back earlier and save it.
Just like the frozen Zora Domain in Ocarine of Time. Everyone had a solution to unfreeze it.

Good, the Taiidan did nothing wrong

So does anybody else here absolutely hate the fucking leader limit in Stellaris and think its just a retarded forced handicap?

>So does anybody else here absolutely hate the fucking core planet limit in Stellaris and think its just a retarded forced handicap?
>So does anybody else here absolutely hate the fucking fleet limit in Stellaris and think its just a retarded forced handicap?
>So does anybody else here absolutely hate the fucking sector limit in Stellaris and think its just a retarded forced handicap?

I hate everything in Stellaris.

ebin post

thanks :3

The Taiidan people seemed to think the Taiidan government did something wrong seeing as how they rose up by the trillions to overthrow the government.

Game looks fun. I hope it isn't buggy as hell when it comes out.

So if there are no policy trees, does that mean Civ 6 civs are can have more malleable playstyles? Like can you go hard conquering early on but then go completely peaceful without being weighed down by a now useless war focused set of culture policies?

It seems so.

that's what the card and government system seems to support

they're more like Civ IV's civics than Civ V's policies

I certainly hope so. I did really like policy trees but they felt super restrictive with you practically being forced into tradition/liberty first and then rationalism being so ridiculously strong your mid game options were super constricting too.

Lets be real, how many times did anyone go piety or aesthetics outside of low difficulty single player, sometimes you'd take a single point in patronage for the forbidden city. Maybe. I should probably look into some mods to spice those up desu.

you could cheese with Piety/Aesthetics with a religion rush with Byzantium (get triple faith buildings and the +2 Tourism from faith buildings, rush to meet everyone, shit out cities like crazy) and get culture victories before 1600 AD but that's about the only viable route I can think of

Rolling

I'm playing CBP with Greece right now and holy shit, Authority, Imperialism, and Autocracy with the right religious beliefs is ridiculously powerful. I'm getting +75 culture in every single one of my cities every single kill. It says I have 110 turns until my next policy but I get it in just 11 turns. It's broken, but like you said, policy trees are inherently restricting. I have no choice but to keep conquering in order to keep my science and culture up.

I'm super glad we're getting governments and anarchy back. Why the fuck they got rid of that system I'll never know.

I still miss call to power govs though since it went full future. Virtual democracy, technocracy and corporate republic in Civ when.

I'm glad they are getting rid of the travesty that was luxuries and global happiness.

>Trade is part of history, and there are limiting factors on population size, so let's combined them!
They tried forcing two game mechanics into one. It screwed CiV up in a way that no DLC could fix because it was too fundamental to the vanilla. BERT did it a lot better with separate health and trade route system.

I imagine they'll add in more government types beyond the basic nine once they start churning out DLC.

>Virtual democracy, technocracy and corporate republic in Civ when.
What's the point? Late game stuff is rarely used because the winner has often been decided by then.

>civ sends me biology tech 'in my time of need" as a gift
>say accept
>he says impossible!

>let's make endgame boring because very few players will reach it!
What a good idea. Let's also make the last boss a disappointement.

It's a test
You failed it

Enjoy your new mushroom cloud monuments.

I wish internal trade routes in Civ 6 gave something to both cities, like in BERT.

and then they got buttfucked by the Vaygr
THANKS HIIGARANS

One of the Great Merchants causes internal trade routes to provide gold to both cities.

>It's a test
I-I don't get it

To see if you would knowingly allow the other half of a partnership to give you a deal that's bad for them - to see if you had the integrity to say "No, that's not fair to you, I cannot accept/must offer something of value".

but the AI is not smart enough for these types of shenanigans

>ywn dominate Catherine

So, I only bought Stellaris a couple days ago. Just a quick question:

If I make a sector with a fully developed planet and a handful of empty planets, will the AI colonize the empty planets for me?

nope, they may sometimes send construction ships to claim resources in their sector though but don't expect that too often. Just make sure they always have enough energy and minerals in the planets tab

Aw fuck, I don't wanna have to colonize all these fuckin' planets manually. Shit takes forever.

You have to do literally everything for them, you have get all the resources in their systems, colonize all the planets, and give them energy and minerals for a while before they actually start turning a meager profit.

Is Veeky Forums moderated?

Yes, and why do you ask?

Just colonize the good ones which are 20+ tiles, or if you're still expanding just colonize the good ones that are gonna expand your borders the most. Every planet you colonize gives a +10% to research cost and every pop you have gives a +1% to research cost. Which means research will take longer if you aren't getting enough research stations and labs to counteract this penalty. Which is generally easy to do.

Is the great admiral the worst fucking great person?

/co/ bans anyone who partakes in off topic discussion but I see off topic discussion on Veeky Forums all the time.

There's a reason it's called /co/mblr. Veeky Forums moderation is mostly accountable and won't ban you over things that don't violate the rules.

Just in return, leave the /co/ habits on /co/

But off topic discussion is against the rules.

Had they banned all off topic discussion, Veeky Forums would lose like half of their users. They only ban when there's mass reporting or they genuinely disturb thread. Have you ever been to other generals?

Yes, why?

If you can hit a post with offtopic, but not Quality of Posts, Rule 3, or any other rule, is it a post that's worth taking down?
Same as Rule 8. Jannies still come from here and presumably aren't little bitches about getting called names.

I'm not site staff, but that's very much the visual enforcement that occurs.

It's not enforced as strictly on most boards and these boards are all the better off for it You can argue that there's other types of cancer but if you want super strict discussion you're in the wrong place. In fact the biggest attraction of Veeky Forums is its off topic stuff. On Veeky Forums bans or deletions are handed out mainly for 3 (indecipherable text, anthropomorphic, and grotesque), 4, 5, 11, 12, and 15. Most boards follow this unless you're actually spamming or being an extreme shit.
Basically, the rules are only guidelines and jannies will [usually] try to look at context. Historical / tactical discussion is technically off topic in any general here but it's tolerated for the most part.

I hope you're joking. That is the most buttfuckingly retarded thing i have heard in a while.

I'm not joking in the sense that I've actually met people like that, but I agree that it's really stupid.

strawpoll.me/11003454
strawpoll.me/11003454
strawpoll.me/11003454
dad

>watching this channel while conquering the continent with Minutemen
youtube.com/watch?v=4uuBvkMx-NQ

Comfy as fuck, senpai.

Continents can be connected to one another in Civ 6, which is cool. So there can be land bridges. But will there also be """continents""" like Europe where there is no clear reason why one region is it's own continent? It would be annoying to be England or America and having your units lose their bonus just because the war took you across some arbitrary line.

>complain about the economy
>buy entertainment media that you don't even use

I assume either very small connecting lands will divide continents, like Suez, Panama, etc or they'll up their map generator so it'll create logical landmasses where climate, resources, tiles, etc will divide continents

>buy
Civ V was free a while ago, probably the people who got it because it was free and never played it. Also you don't get achievements in modded game

They probably got it as part of a humble bundle or something

What is 'scambled nations turkey' like?
Is it the whole Mediterranean or just Turkey?

link to OP vid?