/4xg/ - Stellaris and 4X Games General

>France
>Alcoholic
And your problem is?

>red wine
>champagne glass
Into the fucking trash

Scythia maybe
The horde comes for you

Beats drinking milk in a whiskey glass like I do.

I'm holding out.

germany. not only because the leader looks fucking bitching (they really perfected that plate armor) but because he's an industrial juggernaut who can pump out military units. I dont really care about taking over city states, though.

DELETE THIS

Why?

WHY

DO IT THE KING ORDERS YOU

>When you tell her you love her

No.

o-ok

Kumo a cute.

England for muh heritage, Germany for muh fun.

Me again
I forgot about Brasil which could be actually cool if Great People are more interesting this time.

venice and rome BTFO

roll

zug zug

>tfw you change your PC's decimal separator from , to . and start playing Aurora 4x like a proper game instead of 100-error-message-per-minute-closing-RTS-style clickfest.

I really like his look, cartoony but with dignity

Hey, you'd drink too if your husband spent most of his time focussing on his mistress and letting her live in the pimpingest place of the Loire Valley instead of you.

Does anyone have a problem with CBP in civ 5 that sometimes there are just no luxuries on the map?

I'm French. I'm already drinking.

Germany but I hope that Poland/Denmark will make it into the base game

This thread could use a research boost

Anyone has a table for random Stellaris traits? I want some challenge, I'm tired of my collectivist human nazis

What do you think of the new stats for the Great Library, actually? Do you prefer an across the board boost or just getting one tech real quick?

>human
get a load of this unimaginative faggot

Yes the did, you absolute idiot. They were the ones fighting wars. They were the relatively poor land owners. You know nothing of Rome's progressive class division. Learn history before you act like a shit.

>they were the ones fighting wars
You mean pre-marian reforms? Damn son, I guess that's surely what we today call 'middle class'.

The Great Library? Is this thread set to Settler?

>not playing on Settler and rp'ing your way through the game
Faggo.t

>finally, a Paradox game where “Comet Sighted” actually means something
Madmen

Yes, it would be. Later Rome was marked by one of the worst economic class divisions in history due to the accumulation of land by the aristocratic class. Previously relatively poor land owners worked their land efficiently, but as Rome expanded, slaves became cheap, and those farmers were forced to leave their land fallow for years as they campaigned far from Rome, the richest of the rich simply bought up the land and worked it with the slaves. The soldiers would return to find everything they fought for gone, forcing them to find a job in the heart of Rome herself, working in some sweatshop subsisting off of the subsidized grain dole.

That isn't the big reason why Rome's economy was fucked. The biggest reason was that it was built on conquest. There HAD to be money coming in, there needed to be incentive for rich men to create public works on their own. The fact that global citizenship was granted, combined with the fact that the buffer states meant Rome could expand no further, was what ultimately doomed its economy.

Civil unrest was a major reason Rome fell apart. That civil unrest was largely due to the class division I spoke of. Even by Caesar's time it was getting bad. Rome was increasingly not her younger self, who could field an entire army after losing nearly everything to Carthage. The will to fight for Rome was waning. And if not even Romans believed in Rome anymore, why should Germans?

We're talking about the REPUBLIC, or the Empire? I thought we were on about the Empire. The reason the Republic fell was because soldiers were becoming increasingly loyal to their generals, not the state, due to how the 'rules' of looting worked.

Civ 5 unmodded BNW question:

If I'm going to go for a Domination victory (which I rarely do), how in the fuck can I avoid crazy warmonger penalties? I nipped Genghis fucking Khan in the bud early on because he started above me, so me and the Mayans double teamed him. Took his only city and freed the one CS he took. But now the Mayans aren't happy with me b/c they wanted Karakorum for themselves, the Ottomans think I'm a dirty warmonger for killing off a civ, and the Moroccans are "friendly" with me and trading but not so friendly that they'll renew our early game DoF. Oh, and I just met the Songhai at the end of a long island chain, likely on their own little continent. The Ottomans and Mayans just started killing each other so their forces are in tatters and mine are ready to rock... but I don't know if I should just go apeshit now or bide my time. Do I just say fuck it, DoW both of them and steamroll that half of the continent? I'd basically have to wipe both of them out b/c their capitals are the two cities farthest from me. But Morocco is going to be fucking piiiissed if I do that, and they make such nice trading partners. Songhai will be mad as fuck too but for the time being they're far enough away - might be an issue later on though.
Playing as China btw, just got trebuchet and about to get my Chu-Fuk-Yous, so taking on two civs at once probably won't be an issue. I just hate warmonger penalties in this game because all they do is force you to become even more of a warmonger.

Fuck it here's the minimap. Yellow circles are capitals (small circle is Mongolia's), red line is my most likely warpath.

WAT DO

>We're talking about the REPUBLIC, or the Empire?
Yes.

The distinction is largely pointless because the trends are the same.

>The reason the Republic fell was because soldiers were becoming increasingly loyal to their generals.
As they should have, because the Roman aristocrats were getting away with murder, sometimes literally, and didn't give a single shit about what some soldiers got. Those soldiers were supposed to get land grants but aristocrats increasingly bought up the land with false names to get around the limit of one plot of land per person.

The whole reason Julius Caesar was so damn popular was because he was a reformer trying to change the fucked up system! This increasing class division haunted Rome all the way to it's ultimate demise.

You can probably make it, eating those should give you so much power that even the rest of the world combined won't be a big deal, esp. if you can get a strong navy going.

>The distinction is largely pointless because the trends are the same.
Bullshit. The fact that citizenship was granted to everyone was a massive blow to the Roman economy and the single biggest factor leading to its collapse.

>As they should have, because the Roman aristocrats were getting away with murder, sometimes literally, and didn't give a single shit about what some soldiers got. Those soldiers were supposed to get land grants but aristocrats increasingly bought up the land with false names to get around the limit of one plot of land per person.
This wasn't the issue. The problem was that these generals, who were themselves nobles, were allowed to accumulate power at a rapid pace while the Senate could not stop them unless they wanted the Roman economy to collapse.

>This wasn't the issue. The problem was that these generals, who were themselves nobles, were allowed to accumulate power at a rapid pace while the Senate could not stop them unless they wanted the Roman economy to collapse.
These aren't mutually exclusive. Class division was a major reason Rome fell apart. All of that political turmoil was over land reforms. The filthy rich wanted to stay filthy rich at all costs and when someone broke ranks and exploited popular dissatisfaction with the order of things they had that mother fucker murdered, like Caesar.

That's what the rich do. They do their damndest to maintain the status quo in the name of "tradition".

nerds

The problem with the Roman economy was not the class division but the fact that it HAD to be sustained by conquest, and that this conquest could not be easily regulated as nobility gobbled more and more wealth during that conquest. What would you have done? Freed the slaves?

think I figured it out. Needed to update to latest version of civ 5 which is 1.0.3.279
luckily there was a torrent :^)

They were both major problems.

>What would you have done? Freed the slaves?
What would I have done if I was what? An inexplicable absolute ruler of Rome? I'd fucking invent gun powder, ban slavery, initiate an industrial revolution, invent vaccinations, discover antibiotics, begin the scientific revolution, and NOT conquer and murder millions of people... but that's just me.

>I'd fucking invent gun powder, ban slavery, initiate an industrial revolution, invent vaccinations, discover antibiotics, begin the scientific revolution, and NOT conquer and murder millions of people... but that's just me.
t. Armchair fantasy writer
Go to some /a/ thread about LH or something shows up and let them pound into your head why that shit doesn't work.

dude I'd just do all these future things no one knew what the fuck they were for thousands of years lmao

>ask a ridiculous question
>get a ridiculous answer
>bitch about it
Classy.

The question wasn't ridiculous. You're whining about class divides and I'm pointing out that there wasn't really a choice. I'll pick apart your first post a little but for more details lurk in /a/ or maybe Veeky Forums. Or fuck, pick up a book and use your head.

>Gunpowder
Would start massive social upheavals and public disorder.
>ban slavery
Would absolutely destroy your economy.
>industrial revolution
You can't, the groundwork isn't laid out and there doesn't exist a middle class capable of consuming the goods you create. You'd also destroy the livelihoods of myriad artisans and thereby make the formation of a middle class even less likely.
>vaccinations, antibiotics
Unlikely to work well due to mistrust and fear.
>scientific revolution
How would you do this? Fund universities? With what money?
>not conquer....
Enjoy being stomped as a footnote in history as well as have a terrible economy.

>You can probably make it, eating those should give you so much power that even the rest of the world combined won't be a big deal, esp. if you can get a strong navy going.
Alright, thanks, I guess I'll give it a shot. Probably have to raze at least two of those cities and completely wipe out the Ottoman but whatever. I just hope Morocco doesn't try to fuck me in the ass right away; I've been sheltering them the whole game so their military is unscathed (but also inexperienced I guess).

One other fun fact I forgot to mention - part of the reason I figured I might as well go Domination victory is the Fountain of Youth spawned on the continent (currently owned by the CS just east of the large lake). I managed to run my entire military past it and if I take these two guys out I'll have complete control of it. It's a hell of an edge.... might not need to use lube for anyone else.

>You're whining about class divides and I'm pointing out that there wasn't really a choice.
Well yes, there was. Follow the fucking laws set to protect the plebeians. Regardless, whether there was a choice or not doesn't even fucking matter! So don't act like a condescending cunt.

Oh dear me, I will indeed act as condescending as I so please. I will remind you that you acted condescending first.
>using ! on Veeky Forums
What's up newfag.

lol so salty

>>Well yes, there was. Follow the fucking laws set to protect the plebeians.
>IGNORED

>>Regardless, whether there was a choice or not doesn't even fucking matter!
>IGNORED

>>!
>TRIGGERED

>>So don't act like a condescending cunt.
>NOT POSSIBLE BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I AM

>it's a /4xg/ can't hold a conversation without turning it into a 'lol, u mad' flamewar episode

>Well yes, there was. Follow the fucking laws set to protect the plebeians.
So how would you enforce this when the nobility controls the military?

>Regardless, whether there was a choice or not doesn't even fucking matter!
Well I don't see how it doesn't matter, since you're basically complaining that the sun rises from the east and shouting that it should've risen from the west.

>TRIGGERED
Nice Epic I Like It

>last line
. Condescending.

When one side gets blown out to the point where they defend their ideals with "w-well it doesn't matter that I don't have a way to make it work, someone should've done something", their only choice is to act salty.

This is ironic as hell. You ask a cringy question with little to no context as if you can plop any old schmo into the heart of Rome and give him a honorary title and expect him to change anything despite the situation in Rome changing generation to generation and expect a meaningful answer despite it being one step below the highest order of /a/ tier historical fantasy shit and then you bitch about getting an absurd answer.

So let me cut to the heart of the issue. Your question is absurd because the answer would drastically change due to a multitude of things you didn't specify. Furthermore, I'm not in the business of historical what-if scenarios. I'm interested in actual history. That means understanding it, not obsessing over what could have been done differently.

Or maybe you were just trying to mix some entertainment into a conversation about history and wanted to delve into my opinion of Rome in a roundabout way, which I guess is understandable. In that case, I'm not a big fan of Empire in general. Just because it is historically notable doesn't make it good. Of course, that said, even the bad shit has served humanity in some way. Sure, Rome may have killed and enslaved millions and led to the one of the most corrupt and unequal systems in human history, but it spread the meme of organization and motivated progress across the European continent. Of course that itself led to further millions of deaths and enslavement as European powers sought to emulate Rome, but it's hard to second guess that course of events when it's hard to imagine the industrial and scientific revolutions happening as soon as they did without European colonialism.

In short, it's hard to determine the good from the bad from the necessary.

Look, I played along with your alt-history scenario because it was fucking hilarious, but what I was truly asking was "what do you think the people at the time should have done differently in order to make the social gulf less wide in a way that would be realistically implemented", because I was genuinely curious if you'd had hold of an idea, since I personally see it as almost fixed-in-stone from the moment Augustus implemented the buffer state system. You're the one who thought I was asking what you'd do if you literally got portal'd there.

Teddy Roosevelt is the most based President in history

Although I'm still hoping Byzantium is in the game with a Religious focus

>I played along with your alt-history scenario
>your alt-history scenario
>implying you weren't the one who started this "but what if we could go back in time and change things" shit
Stopped reading.

>implying you weren't the one who started this "but what if we could go back in time and change things" shit
I didn't say you were literally going to go back with all your knowledge you fucking git. My original question was worded 'what would you have done [to stop this collapse]? Freed the slaves?' Do you think when someone asks 'what would you have done to win WWII as Hitler' they want an answer of "I'd build a fucking nuke"?

not even user you arguing with but you are fucking autistic as hell. The question wasn't ridiculous it was just another way of saying 'what could have been done to save rome'.

When they say Civ 6 Vanilla is going to have 18 Civs is that including or excluding Aztecs

There's 22 total here so...it's a mistery?

I'd guess excluding, but I'm not sure. Civ V had 18 at launch with preorder bonus being Babylon.

>tfw stellaris is kill
>tfw hoi4 is kill too

why did they do this lads

why would you release not one but TWO games

then go on a fucking two month vacation while the games are still unplayable

>be a sickly boy
>feel insecure so develop this persona of being tough, eventually it becomes kind of true
>persona evolves into this weird idealization of being a cowboy
>become a politican
>no one takes him seriously so he demands his way into becoming an officer in the US military despite no military experience
>leads a stupid charge that gets a lot of people killed unnecessarily
Like the definition of a primadonna, but certainly one of the better presidents what with the national parks and his anti-corruption stance.

Not in the vanilla game AFAIK, I don't remember seeing them in the chart. Though Rome is in. If they go multiple leaders route, perhaps there'll be one civ(Rome) and a leader will represent western rum and other eastern rum, though very unlikely

I'm 99% sure excluding

And I'm 90% sure some of these leaders will come with Deluxe, and the vanilla game without any dlcs will have 18 dlcs

>and the vanilla game without any dlcs will have 18 dlcs
>without any DLCs
>18 DLCs
???

...

I meant civs, just a spelling mistake

Is it odd or hypocritical of me to be quite isolationist or weak pacificist any time I consider the legitimacy of a war (which usually in a contemporary context) but at the same time constantly honor historical empires (Egypt, China, and Austria)?

Did you not read my post? The question was absurd because it would change depending on when I was and who I was.

So give me some specifics and I'll try to give a meaningful response for what it is worth.

>this historical person had character flaws
>BAIT! He was literally perfect you cunt! Back off from my historical husbando desu.
FUCK YOU! HE'S NOT YOUR FUCKING HISTORICAL HUSBANDO! BECAUSE HE IS MINE!

Personally I think modern wars are just fucking retarded. The reason I can admire ancient empires is, well, they're Empires. It's like admiring the Pyramids, never mind the many who died building it slaves or not memers fuck off.

Augustus, 9 AD immediately after the loss of Teutoburg Forest, since I'm of the opinion it was all over after him and a road to death.

How about Julius? What if you were Julius?

I feel bad for asking about African Kingdoms now. All I wanted was some neat history facts.

WE

/4xg/ didn't used to be this toxic. I think it's because of the hiatus demolishing the old regulars combined with Stelaris being kind of a let down. Eventually /4xg/ will have a sense of community again.

dude beyond earth lmao

Veeky Forums is slowly getting more toxic and there's nowhere to run.

dude plants lmao

I like stellaris, but come on, 8€ for profile icons? what kind of shilling is that?

Probably not murder 1 million Gauls and then break the law by invading beyond Roman territory for the sole purpose of making me and my cronies filthy rich.

>Augustus, 9 AD immediately after the loss of Teutoburg Forest
Well I asked for specifics. Can't just shoot out some really general response to that. Let me formulate a meaningful response and grab a bowl of cereal.

>Probably not murder 1 million Gauls and then break the law by invading beyond Roman territory for the sole purpose of making me and my cronies filthy rich.
That would simply perpetuate the situation though, since if Caesar doesn't do it then someone else will and he'll be the one calling the shots.

/co/ seems fine. /tv/ has always been utter shit. Veeky Forums used to be better but that's more because it was better when it was new. Veeky Forums is still new and hasn't changed much. I've only been a regular of those boards lately. About the only universal negative happening on Veeky Forums I can think of is the viral spread of the word "cuck".

>/co/mblr seems fine.
Huh?

so will we get dido in civ 6?

Why do we always get Carthage and not Phoenicia?

>if Caesar doesn't do it then someone else will and he'll be the one calling the shots
I think you underestimate the balls it took to do what Julius Caesar did. The average Roman would have simply milked Illyricum and Gaul for what they were worth and been satisfied with that. Murdering the Gauls might have been part of that, but breaking Roman law and staging a personal war on the barbarians to the North would not. Had Caesar failed he would have been deemed a traitor. It's only because he was so successful that the rest of Rome let his unlawful acts slide. Else the conservatives would have metaphorically crucified him.