/domg/ - Dominions General

Are these guys worth 3 nature gems at conj 3?

What size?

size 4

>Simply a certain size. I've seen normal elephants can be "towering over the army".
I think size 4 is sufficient or possible even being bigger than the majority of the army. I've seen TC nobles and chariots tower over the army.

Thinking of giving Dom a second try. Got some questions:
a) domg usually plays with Ohlman's Worthy Heroes and Sum1won mod, correct?
b)"You should be aiming to have around 12+ provinces and a second fort finished or close to completion at the end of the first year." Is this still right?
c)Can anyone point me to a guide/guideline for thugging. Last time I played tried to fiddle with it a bit, decked out EA(I think) Caelum berd with liquid body(??? the spell that protects from hits, until someone hits you hard) that got me some provinces and then got hit by Barbarian losing liquid body and quickly died.
d)The most important question: How do I magic? Is everything tailored to your choice of strategy and your race, so there's no general advice? I have hard time grasping magic, I look at magic and can't understand what would level X of magic A would bring me, why would I want it, etc.

So, it is turn 5 and I already lost the game.
Expansion parties lost, I only hold 3 provinces, including my capital, and birds are taking indy provinces where I could have expanded.

I decided to end my suffering quickly, what is best way to lose this early?
I was thinking of going full pillage and blood hunting on my capital, before tearing the fort and lab down and rushing someone.

Lads prepare your assholes

I have an idea for the memest of meme games and I'm gonna start it tomorrow

Depending on the nation you are you can also turtle up and cast cancer global in addition to what you're doing. But what you're doing works too.

Well don't leave us hanging.

>in about 10 pbems
>2 late game that take about 20-30 minute turns
>8 early to middle ones that that take realize that all 8 of them will hit late game at the same time.
>realize that I could be spending 2 hours on PBEM turns a day.

I'm kind of excited

a.) Worthy Heroes most of the time, Summod some of the time, random mods occasionally

b.) 12+ and fort is doing pretty well, but it depends on the nation and whether or not you took an awake pretender. If awake, you had damn well better have at least that. If a slow expanding nation less is not so bad

c.) All guides are generally out of date, the one that most new people find on google is from Dom3 or some shit if I recall.
>tl;dr thugging : A brand of some kind and a shield preferably. Vine Shields tend to be pretty good. If you can't make brands some kind of AoE weapon will suffice, and if you can't make Vine Shields any shield with an effect is generally alright. You want a thug to stay cheap as it's probably going to die at some point. They need good base stats or traits or paths so stuff like Elves, Giants, Ghosts, etc. are decent thugs. Do not thug a human, but if you HAVE to make it some kind of mounted commander and don't give it more than a weapon.

c2. SC's are different than thugs and are shit like Dai Oni in full real-nigga gear that are made to shit on an whole army by themselves. Do not try to turn a thug chassis into one of these as you'll likely waste a bunch of gems. You don't want to do this unless it's some type of big summon or your nation's gameplan usually.

d. Ask here what some of the general goals your nation wants and it'll give you an idea of what you want to try to do. AKA an Air nation wants Evocation up to Storm, Alteration up to Fog Warriors, etc. Early on you'll want to get Evocation to 2 quickly for the ability to have your Air mages cast Lightning Bolt incase you need it, and Alteration to whatever Mistform is(3?) early is also generally useful. It's basically 2 phases, early on you hit cheap goals like Evo 2 and Alt 3 etc, and then you make a grind straight to Alt 7 or something and start hitting your higher research goals.

Update on Ermor party? Last I heard he was actually doing quite well for himself

late night ulmgrib blitz graphs

marignon won

Just started playing this game. Whats a good faction to start as?

marignon's pretender

I'm just giving the nations that are going to war supply items. No bones border me though.

llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Kichikuo_Domg

reminder new LA started
>14 players
>45 MF
>WH 5.5 (NN) and Sum1mod .66c
>anti lemurian nations are already in

6/14 so far

Latest sum1mod is .67 though.

it's not stable

No it isn't. It's not released yet.

Does snow do anything but reduce heat aura effects?
I can't find anything in the description or the manual that says otherwise but I feel like I'm missing something.

water elementals become ice elementals

There we go, thanks! Is that it? Unfortunately google searching or ctrl-f'ing the manual doesn't reveal these secrets to me.

a)Usually
b)That's a bit low, I like to aim for 15, more is possible if you don't run into another player or have a strong bless/god.
c)z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?act=idx has the most and best guides. Thugging is harder and less worthwhile than in Dom 3 though. If you insist on it, play Vanheim or Helheim.
d) See the above link, a lot depends on your nation and god, and looking at a guide for them can give good suggestions. Stick to a nation with low path variety to start to make things easy, like Pangaea.

Basically SC is thug on steroids, but most of the time thug chassis CAN'T be used for SC, right?
> AKA .... goals
That's the hardest part, I guess I have no choice but to ask here to get experience.

>45 MF
What's that? Magic-site Frequency? What does 45 mean if that's it?

15 is fucking delusional and totally dependent on luck baring Erf Snek memes you are bound to either run into another nation or wipe out against a shitty scout report at least half the times even if you know what the fuck you are doing.

Improve yourself

magic site frequence yes

baiscally 45% means 45% of the provinces in the game will have a least 1 magic site. LA typical MF is 35% but I hate that so I always up it to 45% which is EA level

It's not doable every game, but a strong nation should be able to hit 20 provinces year 1.

If a spell has 100 precision will it always hit or can I still use precision lowering debuffs to mitigate it?

I like having slightly reduced site-frequency in Late Age. It feels more appropriate for the higher level of technology. Everyone might as well still be using copper and palisades if magic is powerful and available enough to make armies redundant before too long.

Late age is a really interesting concept, but it's ruined by blood magic.
The entire shift from dom3 to dom4 would be really interesting, if it weren't for blood magic.

>Basically SC is thug on steroids, but most of the time thug chassis CAN'T be used for SC, right?
Sort of.

SCs are more about countering a specific army, rather than a generic thing you can mass produce like thugs. That's mainly due to the fact they need to deal with enemy mage support, which is a lot more varied than the PD thugs are built to fight.

>but most of the time thug chassis CAN'T be used for SC, right?
Most thug chassis don't make good SCs, yes.

>What does 45 mean if that's it?
I've yet to hear exactly how magic site placement works, but 45 is EA site frequency, so a bit higher than normal for LA. Also it makes blood magic stronger

Most precision lowering debuffs only affect precision on units. The spell precision is separate and will not be reduced by storm/mist/darkness/etc.

>Most precision lowering debuffs only affect precision on units
That can't be right, because precision buffs (Eagle Eyes for example) DO affect mages. It would be odd for buffs to work but not debuffs.

Well when you're thinking about an SC chasis basically you're looking to make sure that they have access to appropriate buffs via their magic paths. And that the usually have a way to live through a lot i.e. High protection, HP, and defensive skill (you want at least 2 out of those 3). For Instance a Dai Oni has High hp naturally, highish protection. For magic he has access to Earth and Death. Earth and Death can both raise his protection through (ironskin and invulnerability respectively) and once you've done that if you equip him with an area of effect weapon (usually a frostbrand or firebrand in this case because of the nation's paths) and shield to slow down attackers (vine shield is a favorite) you have him as a very proficient thug. He can clear out most PD by himself no problem. Now how does he get pushed to an SC? By using more buffs and items of course! The big one for Dai Oni's are soul vortex. Soul vortex (Death 3, Alteration 6) is probably the best one because it damages all units around your SC and heals it at the same time. Now you can also use them to cast earthquake too which is a good way to kill a bunch of enemies at once. Now one of the big problems encountered by SC is the fact that they're fighting an army by themselves and have no chance to rest. So items or blesses that can reinvigorate them or regenerate health are essential. So you want to give your Oni some items to help with this and to raise their magic resistance so a mage doesn't just cast a spell to pierce armor and kill them.

Poor choice of words on my part. I'll try explain in more detail.

Eagle Eyes increases the unit's precision, which is then added the spell precision. So say you have a human casting fireball, he has 10 precision, and gains +1 from fireball for a total of 11 precision for that attack. If he casts eagle eyes his base will go up to 14, which again gets +1 when casting fireball for a total of 15 precision.

If you had him casting a 100 precision spell instead, you'd get 10 base +100 from the spell for a total of 110 precision. If you cast storm his base precision halves to 5, but the spell still gives +100 so the total will be 105.

The spell bonus precision is what I was referring to not changing. Units and Commanders both get affected by precision buffs/debuffs.

15 is pretty typical unless something goes horribly wrong. Not getting that many really harms your ability to potentially win.
20 is about where I'd want to be with an awake expander, and I *usually* hit around that amount. Anything higher than that is fantastic, but requires getting really lucky with neighbor's expansion (or just kill the neighbor).

If your nation can't reliably hit 15 provinces year 1, you may want to consider running an Awake Expander.

EA nation of choice for summoning shit? Does Agartha work? For some reason I am really drawn to this nation's concept.

And remember making your thug into an SC shouldn't always be your goal. Sometimes SC aren't the most economical solution. For instance one of the most popular thug chasis is the Vanjarls/Drotts from Helheim and Vanheim.

Now they already have very high natural defense and extra way to avoid attacks via virtue of being elves and having glamour. So when you add in Mistform (alt 3) they will dodge most attacks. So add in a vine shield and a brand and they'll dice PD.

Now the part that makes them so popular is the fact that they're stealthy and highly mobile via cloud trapeze (enchantment 4) So you can either use them to scout a province and get them to attack once you know that the pd is low enough for them to win or just get another unit to scout the province then trapeze them onto it.

So while they aren't SC's and can't take on armies by themselves, 5 of these thugs (200 gold, and 50-100 gems) can cause your opponent to lose 3-5 provinces a turn. Which helps your main stack out by making your opponent chose to split his forces or accept the temporary income loss.

But yea this a stupid deep game, and there's 1000's of ways to get the jobs done, some better than others, rarely one better than all others though.

I've just discovered that one of the spells available to my mages is amazing. Like, holy shit why have I not been spamming nothing but this amazing.

Oh and Hangadrotts from Helheim have access to D3 so you can use them to cast soul vortex too which makes them even stronger thugs and the Vandrotts have access to earth which will help them raise their protection.

Which may seem like they'll end up as potential SC (and they can depending on the army) but bear in my they're vulnerable to evo spam and spells they can't dodge. So you can use them as situational SC's when you know the enemy won't have many mages.

What's a good pretender build for Summod's MA Man and does anyone have any tips for them?

They seem to want basically every scale... it's hard to get Magic 3 and the Income scales to build Knights of Avalons from spawned Forest Glades.

And what sort of late game can I aim for anyway? This is the first non-Evocation focused nation I've tried and I have no idea what to do after grabbing all the nation-specific buffs.

This is my opinion from trying them, but they're not exactly the best late-game nation, as such you should aim to gain an advantage mid-game.

For pretender I see thug summoning imprisoned pretender is a popular choice, but I haven't tried that particular build myself.

How much is a gem worth in gold for trading purposes?

One other gem, anywhere from 2-10 blood slaves (or more!), anywhere from 20-50 gold (or more!)

Oh also you don't need magic 3, magic 2 is enough to spawn forest glades (unless he changed that in the latest version?)

Avalon Knights are also killer at expanding, 5 of them can take on +50 barbarians by themselves so long as there's no mages.

well it seems like they would be able to kill high protection units, which is something other early summons don't do well...or at least not THIS well.

i would use just a few of them and buff them. summod cheat fate should scale and sounds good for kailasa. ofc quickness and marble warriors would be ideal.
28hp 13 protection 9 defense is pretty weak desu.

keep expanding to tolerable size.
then use the magical art of diplomacy with bird's neighbours and try to get a lot of lands out of that.the truth is that until your upkee catch up your income even a small kingdom can recruit a decent amount of mages to research.

birds will have thunderstrikes online turn 20.
there is no reason to throw a game this early.

A pearl is worth 1.5 other gems at least, though.

i would value a pearl 0.75 other gems.
in what world are you living when pearls have a very good use outside of small quantities for items and 1 gem/battle for antimagic?

there are no good summons, and no good global until lategame, even then they have less globals than other gemtypes.
litterally useful for wish(which few nations can cast) and that's it.

I finally got this game the other day. I haven't done much more than finish the tutorial and mess around a bit in single player, but so far it doesn't seem as complicated as I feared. There's still a whole lot I know nothing about, though, so I might be jumping to conclusions. The game looks pretty neat regardless.

I'll have to join a PBEM game here eventually, once I've gotten the hang of things. Large multiplayer games sound a whole lot more fun than single player, and the community seems more active than I expected. Also it looks like I'm not the only new one here, so that makes me feel a bit better about the idea.

Golems and Will of the Fates are pretty good.

Pearls and Death gems absolutely are strongest gems late game, for the summons (Blood doesn't count).
Wish, Nexus, alone are enough to carry pearls through, alongside Juggernauts and Golems. And has a game winning global (Nexus).
Death gems have death summons, among which are Tarts. Enough said.
Nature is also quite strong, what with several game winning globals (Gift of Nature's Bounty, Enchanted Forests, Gift of Health) and solid mage summons/chaff summons.

Cold dominion turns the spell "rain" into just a bunch of snow which doesn't increase fire spells casting cost.

Well, ignoring such great spells such as Lights of the Northern Star, Power of the Spheres, Teleport, Returning, Mind Hunt, Divine Name and Master Enslave which all require pearls, if someone is asking for them, then that means they need them for something. If there is need then why the fuck would you sell them for cheaper than they are worth? Pearls are the universal gem from which all other gems can be made and into which all other gems are made. By that fact alone, they are more valuable than other gems.

You forgot Astral Travel and Gateway. Astral has the best troop transport spells.

There's a ton of useful items which need pearls too.

Ea,Ma Pangaea/Ea,La Mictlan with a strong bless. Strong in their own right but having a strong bless gives you something to crutch on. W9 centaurs are one of the strongest sacred in game so you can be a powerhouse without much effort.

>For pretender I see thug summoning imprisoned pretender is a popular choice, but I haven't tried that particular build myself.
What build do you use and have you seen any examples of those imprisoned builds?

We should really change the OP in these threads. The game isn't particularly hard. There's just a lot of potential depth.

If you know how to move guys around, take territory and basic magic stuff you're ready for a PBEM. You won't get any better against the AI, you have to lose against a few real players. It won't take long at all to get to regular /domg/ level. This place isn't that great at the game.

We may be overegging it slightly in the OP, but we prefer people to be definitely aware of the depth rather than stumbling in, sinking, and thinking the game isn't for them.

Also, welcome to dominions 4, glad to have you here.

>decide to take Earth Serpent
>send it in province, blind why not
>it dies to Barbs
That's my fault, but does it need Awe (I know barbarians ignore it)? And speaking of pretender design, which scales do I want for Agartha? Order 3, Misfortune 1/2 (since every mage is fortune teller), Magic 2, Growth if left with enough points?

Barbs are always a bit chancy with awake pretenders due to being able to hit really hard. Also which era of Agatha?

Awe is ignored by units once they've gone berserk, and barbarians have low morale, so it would help but see above.

If it's EA go heat since the poor sobs are cold-blooded.

EA.

erf snek expands with E6 and not cold scale in the province.
it just has a chance to fail against barbs and stacks of heavy cavalry...more dominion on that province and experience stars help, so you could have probably taken that after some turns of expanding in other provinces.

Earth snake usually doesn't die, it just routes. did you have him move? he's supposed to stay in the corner and hold x5 so he will be out of range of nature mages and can route in 1 turn if he fails the morale check.

As the person above said, heat scales are a good dump as they stop the pale ones being even shitter than normal.

I generally shy away from misfortune due to the annoyance of early game negative events such as barbarians attacks, however a sensible choice due to the nigh-omnipresence of fortune teller.

Currently trying out E4 Dom9 Order 3 Heat 2 Growth 2 Misfortune1 Magic 2. What do you get from more earth? Just protection?
>he's supposed to
Yeah, that makes sense, thx for advice.

Heat 3 is better in terms of points to money lost, as it can't swing further in summer.

dom9 is a waste in my opinion.Erf snek expands fine with just E6.
heat 2 is a crazy huge mistake, just go for heat 3.

What do I waste those points on? Assuming Dom6 E6 Heat 3 Growth 3 I have points for two more scales. My options are:productivity, 0 misfortune, third magic. Third magic is neat, but relative increase lessens with each point taken. One luck seems counter-intuitive with order 3. Productivity? Troglodytes look good for early expansion and they need 1 resource. Could mix them with stone hurlers or olms, low resource usage too.
Another thing that arised now is fort placement. Where do I place them? There aren't any chokepoints most of the time.

Are we still doing this relocation thing? I've got two provinces I will put on the market to displaced nations. (200) for every last gem you have (if I deem them enough), and 268 for a 40 gems and being my personal sweat shop.

Order actually unlocks some of the better events, such as markets (lots of gold) or even free fort construction.

HAHAHA WHAT NOW VANARUS??? U MAD???

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO HAVE MOTHER OAK STOLEN BY FUCKING ABYSIA. I CLIMBED ALL THE WAY FROM N1 TO GET HERE.

#rekt #turborekt #abysiacucked

And by N1 I mean indie N1 witch doctor.

That last # makes it look like you were the one being cucked.

HAHAHA... FUCK.

Oh well.

#rekt #turborekt #shrekt I guess

I'm just picturing this big ass charred tree in the middle of a garden of flames.

Also when you cast a global I wish it would also create a spot on the map, I.E. you drop the tree in that location, or have the eternal pyre in a certain area. Then when people conquer your province they get a bonus in dispelling it or overcasting it in that province (still can't take it from you though).

summoning der_gotterdammerung graphs

Luck looks like "all or nothing" scale. Or I'm wrong?

Not really, luck 1 and 2 unlock a number of events as well and the frequency of events won't be changed dramatically. Depending on how much you'd benefit from magic scales, luck is a perfectly fine place to drop design points even if you don't reach L3.

Well magic 2 grants 9-10% increase for engravers and 5% increase for Oracles. Could exchange it for luck 2

Not really. Luck 3 does unlock a lot of REALLY GOOD events, but Luck 1 unlocks a bunch of fairly nice ones as well.

There's a fair number of events that are multiple scales as well. For example, Luck1 Magic1 is better for gems than Luck 2.

The free fort events need both Order and Luck.

Personally I never like taking Misfortune, even at high Order, just because Misfortune 1 is all that's needed for a lot of the random "Indies attack!" events, which are annoying as fuck.

my game experiences with Order 3 and luck 3 have been pretty poor.
sure there were a couple of money events, but it was mostly a disappointment, i wish i had order 3 misfortune 1 all the time and i had used those points for something cooler, like more paths on my pretender or a dormant instead of an imprisoned.

Extended to 30 hour turn tick timer. I've noticed some players having issues with the 24hr and I'm personally moving house today and will have difficulties with internet next few weeks.

I can't live without luck 3. Feels like Christmas every turn. RNGJesus I am yours to take.

Does scrying reveal magic sites?

No or Arco would be rolling in them.

No, there are dedicated remote site searching spells for that. Scrying just gives scouting info.

It doesn't reveal them, but it lets you see what sites the owner has found.

Abysia 2h file received
Agartha 2h file received
Arcoscephale 2h file received
Asphodel 2h file received
C'tis 2h file received
Ermor 2h file received
Man 2h file received
Nazca 2h file received
>Ulm Waiting for 2h file
Vanheim 2h file received