I couldn't understand what that was at first, because I'm a bit sleep deprived. I was like "oh, we're officially having EO stuff in /smtg/ now? okay" then I noticed the subject. You don't do that, man, that's just malicious.
Sorry for the extra "embed" in the opening post, by the way.
Most memorable part will be them teleport dungeons. Get your anus ready.
Landon Ortiz
A great Law representative.
Kayden Young
It was so weird to see the obviously evil cop portraits from Devil Survivor 1 being used for standard cops in DS2...
In DS1, good cops only appeared during the stages themselves, in order to avoid giving them actual portraits.
Adrian Ward
Hoy.
Mason Brown
The most impressive thing is how Atlus can get away with being so cheap.
Elijah Lewis
9 days
Benjamin Smith
Boredom.
Levi Rogers
Once you Hoy your Hoy you cannot un-Hoy your Hoy.
Blake Smith
When are the reviews for Apocalypse going to be up?
David White
They do plenty. A lot of the games talk about fighting they did that didn't involve humans. And note that these humans themselves use demons. Its not just humans alone fighting. In most of these universe's plots, the human deciding the victory is a new event.
Isaiah Nelson
They've been doing it forever. Its hardly new.
Connor Campbell
Does Luck affect my rate of having a successful negotiation in Nocturne?
Jose Butler
What do the angels and demons talk about when they say "knowledge and wisdom"? Is that meant like the biblical term for knowledge of good and evil? Or is that meant as any... knowledge that makes people question the current order/state of things?
Noah Carter
I think it only affects ailments, drops and crits.
Chase Nelson
What does Nozomi do in Final, aside from be a vessel to Danu?
John Morgan
I presume it's "knowledge that makes people question the current order/state of things". The angels define "Filth" as doubts, and the only way to have doubts and to be skeptical is through knowledge.
Elijah Wood
It seems like it means knowledge of good and evil, but which in practice they mean more like knowledge of order and chaos. Meaning people with it can and will consider selfish and various chaotic things as live possibilities, whereas people without it will tend not to.
Jose Jones
She is the older sister type character that settles arguments between the companions. And she is there to provide emotional support for the other companions if you play like an asshole.
Hudson Sanchez
She seems overshadowed by the new characters, with exception to Pascal the Imouto.
Gabriel Campbell
You forgot to delete the (embed) links, but I forgive you OP.
I wonder if /eog/ also has some cheeky cunt that shitposts with SMT over there. Why can't we all be friends?
Jose White
She is the mature responsible adult without any personal issues. She doesn't develop in any way and gets no ship tease with the MC. That's probably why.
Sebastian Harris
>SMT4 the best Fucking stupid. Only two worthwhile songs on that soundtrack. Doesn't come close to even an average EO soundtrack, much less Persona or Trauma Center.
that was loltastic. They couldn't even shoop a cop hat on sad civilian man.jpg?
Charles Myers
We tried that once, remember?
Zachary Bailey
What was Gaston issues?
Kayden Wood
She's hot though, that helps.
>no ship tease Dammit Atlus
Josiah Taylor
Atlus, or whoever was in charge of Apocalypse scenario thought it was a good idea to have Toki possessed by a sexually frustrated Inanna to provide ship tease moments with Nanashi.
Michael Cooper
>the little goth-looking girl Oh okay Atlus knows the SMT audience better than me.
Luke Lopez
He starts as an arrogant glory hound, who is NUMBAONE, breaks formation during the Shesha fight just so he can get the finishing blow (which he doesn't get anyway). Because of his arrogance, he drives everyone away from him. He struggles between doing what he believes is correct and his orders from the angels.
Blake Brown
Toki looks more like a Japanese noble woman in a loli's body than a goth.
Jordan Flores
I don't mean full blown friendship and marriage.
But it would be nice if posters could enjoy both series instead of pretending that if you play one, you are forced to hate the other. But oh well, I guess expecting people from Veeky Forums to enjoy things is asking for too much.
Samuel Sullivan
It sounds like he could've been the Massacre representative if he hadn't changed. Also, why do Nips hate glory hounds and arrogant characters? They are usually fun to watch handled correctly
David Collins
It's both actually. Law is equated with good and Chaos is equated with evil. This is what YHVH intended. Not surprising as Kagutsuchi says as much when he calls freedom the root of all evil.
Evan Reed
So how awkward would it be for Hallelujah to meet his dad's ex-girlfriend friend Inanna?
Hunter Howard
Not really. Even the story has him eventually getting over not being Numbahwan. Mostly in the bonds ending.
Dagda has always been the Massacre representative.
Colton Johnson
But he is still numbah one in the hearts of players when they aren't flapping to Toki.
William Smith
They fap to Dagda, Hallelujah, Krishna, Nanashi, then Toki, then Asahi, then Navarre, and finally Gaston.
Jackson Miller
Oh sorry forget Abe Hallelujah's dad after Toki.
Jackson Bailey
What are their thoughts on Inanna? One thing I've noticed is that there's always pics of her doing the infamous Toki confession scene mid battle on the Japanese miiverse pics.
Colton Hughes
Not much art of her sadly. She'd probably get more if she got to hang out with Poo in Loo enthusiasts.
Jaxon Williams
Might have to do with the fact that she's hard to draw with all the details on her body. I'm sure she has fans.
John Walker
Hoy.
Nathan Cox
Final takes place after the neutral ending of 4 right? should i replay SMT4 to get the neutral ending before i get my hands on Final?
Lincoln Jenkins
The cheeky fucker over at /eog/ actually gave me an idea: why not create a legitimate, non-shitpost /eog/ Dungeon Crawling General? One that doesn't just talk about SMT or Etrian Odyssey, but rather all dungeon crawlers, western, eastern and everything else in between. That's not to say it would replace all the current threads Veeky Forums has on dungeon crawlers, it would just serve to give anons more games to talk about and play. Would you browse it /smtg/?
William Sanchez
> Law is equated with good and Chaos is equated with evil Law is selflessness, equality, compassion, consideration, modesty, loyalty, order/safety, peace. But it's also stagnation, intolerance, blind obedience, narrow-mindedness. In general tho, It is what makes people feel safe and happy.
Chaos is selfishness, hierarchy, pride, anger, lust, gluttony, envy and all the negative emotions in general, yes. But it is also doubt, creativity, curiosity, passion, ambition, self-determination, progress, change (for good or ill.). Chaos is what gives life actual meaning.
Eli Jenkins
You don't have to, but if you load your SMTIV save on Apocalypse you get an EXP bonus.
Ian Martin
Nope,it's set in an alternative universe that's different from IV's neutral ending.
Brayden Hernandez
damn really? well is the DLC of 4 worth looking into?
Sebastian Robinson
If you want a challenge and back story then go ahead, be warned that none of the DLC would be relevant in Final.
Austin Perez
>Chaos is what gives life actual meaning Lucifer plz
Michael Martin
Never going to happen. She wants to do her own thing and will side with anyone that will let her be free.
Julian Williams
Depends on the games.
Jeremiah Martin
How can I live in a world full of demifiends?
Jonathan Cooper
Well I think the starter pack should probably be Wasteland 2, Fallout originals and New Vegas, Pillars of Eternity, Bards Tale, and Baldur's Gate. SMT, Etrian Odyssey, and the SoulsBorne series are a given, of course.
Jose Wright
get some little kid to put a bug in your eye
Matthew Perez
I wouldn't call Soulsborne and New Vegas dungeon crawlers.
Juan Wood
Yes. Do it ASAP.
If the game registers that you have data of SMT IV which doesn't have the neutral ending, it will lock out until you get it.
Mason Perry
Well they have dungeons, as SoulsBorne literally has actual dungeons whereas Fallout has vaults and caves.
Aaron Jones
Why Hitoshura is such a meme character?
Jose Murphy
Because of that sexy neck horn.
Benjamin Garcia
Flynn is a bigger meme.
Noah Morales
demon penis on his neck
Andrew Bell
wait what
Ayden Edwards
He's bullshiting you. Don't worry about it.
I think you get some bonus stuff if the game detects a save file with all endings on it.
Leo Morgan
they really expect you to play the game 4 times? i mean sure you can just breeze through the game in new game plus, but still
Easton Wright
The bonus stuff is all just minor shit, I won't worry about it.
Grayson Lopez
Well IV did come out in 2013, so you could have easily beaten 4 times by now.
Speaking of which I just got to Tokyo in the law route and have no desire to play anymore. I hope I can stick with Final.
Charles Lopez
So whats so bad about the story in SMTIV:A?
Zachary Perry
Chaos is also the ability to make choices.
But no all the positive things are intentionally ignored because Chaos is meant by YHVH in IV and IVA to be the "evil" side in the Monotheism ideal.
Matthew Diaz
Besides bonds, nothing really. Just SMTIV shitters.
Sebastian Diaz
And people will go on about how Neutral is the "right" choice, even on other games.
Again.
Daniel Ward
From what was shown on the twitch stream the combat was heavily improved.
David Gutierrez
Hiearchy as an idea doesn't exist properly in chaos. As in Chaosfags betray the idea the moment they have a chance to.
It's a form that exists with both alignments depending on the context but chaos does not support a true Meritocracy. The Angels themselves exist in a hierarchy.
Thomas Jenkins
Which doesn't even make sense. Does YHVH want people in his world to take law instead of chaos? But chaos just provides a counterpoint? If so, how does actually taking chaos remain a bad end? The entire system seems nonsensical in light of the fact that lots of people are trying to go against yhvh, but lucifer for some reason uniquely is incapable of doing so for real. Despite his actions clearly coming off like he plans on doing so.
What I wonder is how much lucifer and merkabah are considered redeemed by the ending. Do they "realize" they're being played and decide that uniting back into satan is the solution? Or is that just satan calling them back to uniting and they never really figure out what is going on independently of him. Chaos seems to get shafted here that somehow despite claiming to be about rebellion its really not, but uniting into satan can be a real rebellion? Why couldn't lucifer just try to hijack the cosmic egg and take over?
Jeremiah Wilson
Yes and they have that choice because of freedom, which is chaos. The removal of choice is the removal of chaos.
Chaos is also tied to the human soul, while Law is tied to the Holy Spirit.
Cameron Harris
>Go to fight Mastema in IV >The moment the fight starts he Megidolaons me twice >I'm already dead Did I miss something or what?
Lincoln Powell
In Absolute Monotheism YHVH is both good and evil equally. To give humans what they wish for he equates his nature to the two paths the humans seek. So one route had to be villainous to the other being good. The middle a balance between both to give humans who seek it a temporary recluse from the battle.
Jeremiah Gray
Yes you chose Law you monster.
Connor Mitchell
Just fused Demiurge. Used Alice's source.
>the false god now has the powers of a loli
Alexander Clark
The main thing is it tries to more or less trivialize all the alignments as all just tools of yhvh's control. Except that it tries to handwave that regular neutral is part of this, despite the fact that in IV taking neutral is no different than law or chaos in terms of fighting off yhvh. Somehow this includes chaos, despite it being you know, about rebellion. So while the idea of chaos being a false flag is interesting, and of law not really being yhvh's final goal, it more or less accomplishes this by trivializing the struggle of the entire series into a bad end. Obviously this doesn't apply to previous games, only to IVs universe. But it makes lucifer as a character look pretty dubious. Not to mention merkabah. It basically makes anything abrahamic, on either side look dubious, and make polytheism inherently look better.
They also don't like that its true endings are basically two options one of which is the most happy go lucky ending in the series, and one of which is the darkest ending in terms of preservation, if not content. It cranks the neutral bias to 11 by making the standard neutral ending look like it finally won for real and somehow only neutrality could accomplish this. This ending is so happy go lucky that literally everyone in the world other than the main villain leaders is on your side by the end. And the other ending the dark ending is basically the new law ending, but the game calls it neutral anyways. And is the darkest ending in the series where you have to more or less singlehandedly kill everyone in the world. The game obviously doesn't want you to take that ending, so its making there basically be one "correct" choice.
I think that people are complaining too much though. Its true that the game shits on standard concepts of alignments, but if anything we really did need a mix up. And its not like this retroactively makes earlier alignment endings bad. It just depicts a world where they reflect options you can surpass for once.
Kayden Evans
I have to get all the endings somehow.
David Harris
I see! Thanks for the heads up.
Oliver Morris
Mastema is a cheesy-ass nigger. He gets buttmad if you run any of the reflect phys/mag spells, so don't cast them.
He would ALWAYS, ALWAYS go first, megidoaloan spam until I kicked the Berserker out of my party. Then he went second and had a still Megidoaloan-themed moveset but much less vicious. Try a party with fewer null/reflects. Post-game boss AI in SMT4 seems to get buttmad if you play the game TOO well.
Law is the good end though?
David King
chaosfags are more btfo than anyone though, since the massacre ending is ultimately more of a dark law ending, while there's nothing analogous to chaos for them. Law just has to deal with the game acting like massacre is borderline an evil ending. But they're used to that already. Typical atlus fare, etc. It makes up for it with the fact that massacre is more or less a true monotheistic ending to contrast TDE.
However, there's a ton of cool shit. The main villains are fairly unique (for mainline at least), since they are someone outside of the normal law and chaos paradigm. And satan is back, looking more badass than ever. He's even a pretty cool dude, as well.
Another reason people are mad is the waifus though. You travel with a ton of people who are all over your dick. And in massacre you get to pick one of them to have sex with. And you can pick any of them. Including the guys. So its basically a bisexual harem game.
Blake Morgan
You aren't fighting off YHVH. He's letting you believe you've achieved a victory. As Mastema himself points out humans will naturally flock to the lord willingly and belief in him in will germinate, ensuring mankind inevitably refits the system he designed without having to to do anything until its time to kickstart the next battle.
Neutral never once presents itself as some long term solution in IV and the characters act like they won some hard earned victory when they didn't.
It takes radical Gods who will fuck up the cycle completely to bring long term change. Flynn is a tool who makes others wishes happen and then dies offscreen like the bitch he is. Only Akira brings long term change as a natural born ruler of others.
Nips also think Bonds should be toned down from what I heard, but they don't loathe it as Flynn finally gets a genuine happy ending.
Stop with the Law = Massacre crap. Keep calling it that won't change how the creators don't treat it as such as it's just the headcanons.
Monotheism as treated as bad cause they are too inhuman in their treatment of things, while Polytheisms for all their faults at least act like people towards each other even if they view humans as mere commodities.
Jonathan Powell
Not really since the Reasons and characters in Nocturne were all chaos it's natural we should have a game where Chaos is serving God's will in another way.
Boddhisattva Stephen saaid otherwise in DLC. Only Demi-Bitch got summoned from TDE and that's cause he lost to Lucy. Law Flynn dying at the end is the wrong choice.
>Destroying the universe is more legit than IV Law.
Chase Long
>It takes radical Gods who will fuck up the cycle completely to bring long term change.
How is lucifer not this? If anything the takeaway is that radical things somehow don't bring change, only moderate ones. The sequence of events that allowed defeat of yhvh isn't something anyone in universe had much reason to think would at the time. Nor even knew ahead of time mattered.
>Stop with the Law = Massacre crap. Keep calling it that won't change how the creators don't treat it as such as it's just the headcanons.
This has nothing to do with headcanon. Its "not law" in a similar way to shijima not being law. Its not aligned as law since you're not complying with anyone, but as an ending its still composed mainly of lawful elements. In an interview they made it clear that you are the new yhvh, not just someone who casually is helping make the new world who is then irrelevant to it. "dark law" is presented as similar to neutral in concept, since its between light law and dark chaos. But the ideological preconceptions of being willing to kill people to ensure a greater peace that lasts forever is basically standard lawful far, but shifted into a slightly different context. The fact that it makes it clear you'll use brainwashing and genocide to establish your new single order is just more icing. The only thing about it that makes it now law is the fact that "law" in terms of alignment in game is also presented as having to do with siding with the "proper authority religious figures" that you're not doing here. The confusion comes from the ambiguity of how the alignments are defined. Its still ideologically the analogue of law, even if "its an alternate alignment system so don't call it law." This discussion ended weeks ago. You're not going to distance it from lawful associations just because its ambiguous. The amibguity is noted by everyone. Its not a normal law ending, but its still the new law analogue relative to bonds.
Joshua Evans
The reasons in nocturne weren't chaos. The characters were. Something people forget in mainline is the fact that just because certain worlds seem to attract certain people doesn't mean your alignment presumes compliance with the side that uses the same name. Which is really a flaw of mainline that they make it seem to be that way. They said they wanted the characters to be chaotic in a world with no pre set order to comply with. But once new orders are established, those aren't themselves chaos.
The real problem is that calling the mainline endings "law" and "chaos" was dubious in the first place. They should have called them peace and anarchy or something to begin with. To let you know that a chaotic figure can still create a new peace system. It sounds more odd when you say a chaotic figure can create a new system analogous to law. Because the word law makes no sense there other than by comparing it to mainline endings. Because in mainline the idea of chaotic aligned characters supporting law or lawful aligned characters supporting chaos is rarely addressed at all, other than in rare cases that are glossed over at best like chaos demons working with the center that zayin complains about.
Aiden Wright
Because you aren't paying attention especially to IV. Lucifer is humanitites limitless desires, desires includes the DESIRE FOR ORDER, and immediately upon winning and invading Mikado tells Flynn to become king and restore Law because the sons of man desire it.
The fucking White told you the moment a cell becomes too destructive the other cells will just come in and restore it back to the way it was. Even Mastema is nonchalant about Chaos potentially winning and he hates the Four Archangels. Even his domain is a Law realm made to embody order to Merkabah's chaos oriented Purgatorium.
He has no goal of rising to YHVH Space to strike at God. Only to see Flynn become a King who dies like the bitch he is restoring Law to glory.
Elijah Richardson
Chaos is the main affiliation in the game itself. Not just to the characters. Even the conception brings about chaos that destroys the old universe. They like IV's Chaos are chaotic but not that chatoic so they will become Law with the creation of the new world.
Freedom, Demon, and True Demon were the extremes for chaos, choosing freedom which is the root of chaos itself, a weak willed coward in Demon, and TDE where you set out to destroy the cycle for good.
Jack Price
Each ending actually represents a different aspect of chaos. They mention this in a guide or interview.
Anarchy, Monotony, Chaos, Elitism, Destruction, and Freedom itself.
Justin Campbell
I think this was meant for
Ryan Bailey
>Igor jap VA is dead >can't get used to the new VA >mfw
Gabriel Robinson
That's not what IVs plot was getting at at all. "Chaos" doesn't mean somehow violating causality and not having anything even tenuously implying a system. The top of the hierarchy considering themself a king and people working for radical freedom has always been a staple of it. Lucifer represents what humans want for themselves. Its contrasted with what they think they owe others. The interpretation you are trying to draw is really a stretch. Especially considering he uses the anarchy logo in IVA. He clearly thinks he's a being of chaos. The chaos is just without rising to strike yhvh.