/smtg/ - 真・女神転生/Shin Megami Tensei General

Why did Doi improve his SMT designs so much already when Soejima has still been hit and miss for years?

A lot of this significantly changes the tone of SMT4 and bogs it down with more cutscenes than it needed. It already had too many awful cutscenes for the awful plot it brought to the table though, and given a choice I would trade SMT4's cutscenes for yours any day of the week. Your tone is a helluva lot better too.

To make a counter-argument, I don't think the writers for SMT give one shit about pathos or narrative satisfaction or dramatic irony or paying off foreshadowing or recursion any of the cool stuff your plot invokes.

I'd rather it be a Soul Hackers-ish melange of cool crap so in the end it really does feel like you smash the heavens, smash hell, or both to bring the world back into something not utter trash. They bet a lot of the plot on the red pills carrying the story and it just created this incredibly corny dichotomy of either you want to suck people's brains or you want to demonize tokyo, no middle ground.

Fusion with Kaneko

Hey, you could've had a game that focused on combat and skill crafting and elaborate dungeons and went light on the plot. Instead you got Persona. Enjoy your elaborate romances between teenagers.

So I'm guessing that Hiroshi, The Patriots, and Noa were all characters in SMT SJ, right? It's nice to see a throwback, even though I didn't beat that game (I think I only made it to the third dungeon... Gotta pick it back up once the 3DS gets DS Mode hacked)

This game is so good. I've played Persona, DDS, Raidou, SMTIV, and Nocturne, and thus far this is looking to be the best SMT game yet. And this is coming from a P4babby

Toki porn when

Which makes little sense that they passed it off this way by the way. These chaos demons follow orders so absolutely that having a leader guarantees unity? I can understand some degree of control, helping a law leader bring them to god. But effectively absolute control is sketchy at best.

Yeah, and adding on to what you guys have been saying, remove Blasted Tokyo and Infernal Tokyo entirely. They completely break the pacing of the game and are totally unnecessary. Instead, have The White just send you directly to the past, maybe right after the Firmerment comes up. Now that would be interesting, and it could add more to the setting too.

Mainline

They're not. None of those are characters from SJ... The only humans you meet past the beginning are evil ones called jack's squad and some communications with the government.

Threadly reminder that folks with CFW can download this save and access Apocalypse difficulty before the DLC is out
mega.nz/#!ZQk1AbZQ!ZwxEqTRnNJWF0zD5wPsTUAJb_v3b1CdHdeJP9syNof8

But maybe you shouldn't because this shit is retarded, send help.

>Persona is the future of SMT.
>Instead you got Persona. Enjoy your elaborate romances between teenagers.
Make up your mind my man

Blasted Tokyo and Infernal Tokyo were the best part of SMTIV for me, actually. Y for once explored Law and Chaos beyond just being Demons and Angels, expanded on old concepts such as Mutants and Demonoids, and had pretty nice story.

Well they probably caused whatever event happened in SJ. They mentioned the Antartic reactor and sending people to get the energy to make japan great again.

I mean, they were cool on their own, I don't dispute that. I just think that they were really jarring and pace breaking. Perhaps there could have been a better way of integrating it into the story idk.

Just get a flashcard, 3DS stopped trying to block them ages ago.

>implying smt isn't going the romance route with all the relationship baiting between toki/nanashi and asahi/nanashi
m8

Anyone know what demons have Concentrate in Apocalypse?

I tried to warn you about the final dungeon being a retarded unending unlikeable massive teleport maze.

And I think I tried to warn you about the higher difficulties being retarded but not often enough that I could say you had a good chance of being warned. Sorry.

Some DS flashcarts work in 3DS.

>remove Blasted Tokyo and Infernal Tokyo entirely. They completely break the pacing of the game and are totally unnecessary.
They wreck the pacing of the game so completely. They could be better integrated.

That said, they are necessary for the White's ending to make sense. Not that it makes sense in the normal case.

How were they pace breaking? They entered right at the conclusion of the Walter vs Jonathan arc, introduced and reinforced Alignment just before the route lock, which is the endgame.

I know about flashcarts, I've never gotten one though because the sites all look spoopy
I buy all of my DS games, but I lost my cart of SJ hence why I was unable to finish it

Yeah. I legitimately could not tell you what order anything happens in from when you get to tokyo to when you meet lilith. Everything in that segment was so random and pointless you could have changed any of it out with no difference. If they weren't going to make what you were doing matter, at least make some parts of the plot include other characters and what they were doing. Megaten games simply don't have good enough tones to be able to rely on the tone alone with no plot for that long.

Just get it from ebay or Amazon, they cost about 15 bucks these days. Don't be shy.

Hell your local flea market probably has one, or any gaming plaza or non-official retailer will have them.

Also, more importantly, make the white something real, not recolors of characters. Like, the recolors were fine. Just make sure that the one in charge is actually something new. The white should have been treated like a real villain too. One with some foreshadowing.

You spend thirty minutes running through an area playing gotta catch em all with trash enemies and then Walter asks "Did we REALLY do the right thing killing that monstrous demon that not only threatened but promised to continue eating humans?"

Lucy is summoned for friendship and Satan to enforce Yamato's Law.

So is there something you have to do to unlock more skill expansions in Apocalypse? I'm level 20 and can't buy any more slots past the first one.

$2.49 for DLC! It's a small price to pay.

They get doled out at levels 25, 50, and 75 (!! HOLY MACKEREL)

Please tell me you're joking

I believe that it is because he has to directly "compete" against Kaneko's designs. So even if the man himself leads him in the right direction, he still has some very big shoes to fill. The fanbase demands it and Doi must know this very well.

I don't feel like dissing Soejima's work, but he can get the job done as long as he draws hot waifus.

About the DLC? Yes. I think that's the one thing you can't get DLC for.

About the levels? Fuck no.

what da fuckkkk

i got the second exp at level 50. i'm 65 now so it just might be that 75 is the last one. holy shit..

Well that's how the Courts work in DeSu. Even the Bels who still retain their individuality now serve King of Bel unwaveringly because Babel viewed him as worthy. Amane even brought up YHVH brole and distorted the world cia languages because everyone had a unified front serving under the King of Bel. Only humans had turned on him and worshiped YHVH, leading to His rise and Bels fall.

It's a feudal system of unwavering loyalty but as long as your God doesn't order you to not do sonething you can do it.

To be fair, the bels didn't entirely retain individuality. They became part of him. He could generate them out of himself, but hey likely contained a lot of his personality worked in.

No its not. It's the earth defense mechanism that made it appear in SJ. The earth always summons it to cleanse its body.

...Anonymous
09/19/16(Mon)02:04:37 No.155181639
#
Nocturne had its own rules. It's possible for demons to live indefinitely outside a universe. That was the point with nameless God Noah. He went outside creation to live in NEETDom for all eternity till a loser summoned him.

They are even described as immortal with unchanging existence by one demon

>And I think I tried to warn you about the higher difficulties being retarded but not often enough that I could say you had a good chance of being warned. Sorry.
I couldn't find anything about the difficulty differences outside a few vague gamefaqs threads, maybe I missed the discussion here.

Either way I'm sticking with it, I won't fucking give up no matter how much I hate the game by the end. I'm about to face King Frost, and I'm already overwhelmed by all the fusion options. This shit is going to take forever, grinding to fuse the perfect demons for a given situation is very time consuming.

They do retain it. That's why they are offerig war advice on Despot as they have put aside their Pettiness to serve the new guy. On Warlord they are silent as while they serve him now he's not as cruel or ruthless as they would be.

They obviously retain some individuality. But when things fuse, but the other ones are shown as emanating from them, I think we're meant to read an inherent relation to the main person into it.

Anons I have a problem. I have my stock full of demons, their fusions into useful stuff do not haopen until like 2-3 levels later and the current dungeon is full of demons I don't have. Asahi doesn't stop telling me to recruit.

You have to remember the pieces mostly fused with other demons rather than be them from their birth. Only Beelzebub I don't recall talking and him and Baal are likely pure Bel pieces.

Kunitsu Sukuna-Hikona

Threadly reminder that luck is the only correct build.

>might makes right!
>but don't kill me to empower yourselves

Real men do full Agi builds

>might makes right
>yhvh is arrogant for thinking being the strongest means he should be in charge
>might makes right is only right if you use your might to support the idea that might makes right.

Yeah, Chaos is so retarded. Walter even tells you in the end of the Law route that you beating him means that you were right. What sense does that even make?

Because Law tries to act otherwise. That's why Belial cheers for world of STR because you couldn't defeat him without proving him right.

Chaos means even those weaker can rise up and oppose you as well.

The problem is that chaos is retarded on purpose. They make it have extreme ideologies that if in any other game it was merely neutral vs chaos it would be obvious that chaos is the villain. But they do this as an excuse to """subtly""" critique the utilitarian thinking of law. They make the theoretically reasonable things law is based on as extreme as possible and contrast it with the openly bad chaos to look like a fair critique. This is presented as you having an option, but lets them present one option as the best one. For added attempts to spin law as bad, sometimes they will present chaos as similar to neutral, like in nocturne where before tde, the reset ending was the chaotic one and standard chaos got associated more with order. So they have little motivation to make chaos consistent, since it looking bad is there to make law able to be spun as bad as a counterpoint without looking too overtly strawmanpolitical.

how do you obtain boss demons? i saw some dude on the dds with krishna as his demon

Law's retarded too.

>Even animals follow Gods order
>Rape, murder, defile, cover themselves in Filth, etc.
>Chaosfags literally want to live like animals
Yet Somehow none of the stuff in God's Order fits world of str.

But you didn't prove him right. What's in question isn't the fact that power lets you do things. Everyone knows that. What chaos says is that there are no higher principles so you can and should use your power for whatever you want. This would be like if hitler left a suicide note saying that the allies winning the war using violence proves the holocaust right because its violence so violence can do things. All it shows is them missing the point.

>Chaos the unpredictable alignment
>Doesn't have to be consistent
really makes you think.

Except you do. He points out God can only enforce his Law through STR and that's why he fell. In the end bearing him proved he was right with that belief so he cheers on chaos.

Even Walter saying you are right is because you beat him by his own rules.

To be fair, he likely meant that in more of a metaphorical way. Like the principle of order exists in the universe in general, and evolution to higher forms is something they see as part of it, so they were hoping the value relations led to humans being nicer since they are at a higher stage, and can now understand the objective concept of value which in some sense exists as a pattern in reality in general.. And animals are not good, but are fine for the stage they are at. So they're basically just asking why people aren't nice in the weird way possible. To be fair, from the perspective of demons, they may be approaching the question from a way incomprehensible to humans.

"chaos" in terms of the reset ending in nocturne and the AO ending in desu II (kind of? Did you lose all technology? Since that would suck) is actually pretty tolerable. Problem is, mainline chaos has to be ridiculous to make law look bad.

God's order is everything and nothing at the same time. Isn't that so convenient? Nah, but seriously Gods's order is apparently everything living in harmony, but Merkabah tries to spin that as something natural for some reason, even though it's clearly not. Or maybe he is saying that everything should strive to be the best it can be according to what God defines as "best" and for humans that is to live in harmony without fighting and for animals it's to uphold the ecosystem or something. That would make a lot of sense now that I think about it actually.

Hitler would have left something like that if his Aryan master race were the ones who defeated him.

There are demons who act like and think like animals. Plus there are plenty of animals that show empathy between different species including ones who can kill each other just like they are brutal and do what they must to survive.

Demons generally aren't seeing things from a grander purpose unless they stand at the top of the pyramid.

how far into smt4 apocalypse does the firmament get lifted?

It would if I didn't know animals have been sentient inseries. Raidou had a wild chicken empathize with a starving girl who was smarter than the racist conformist adults and a gay cow who loved his owner so much he didn't mind dying to feed him. Which happens after Tsukigata embraces despair.

Also Pascal. There have also been animals who turned into demons as well, specifically their anger.

I'm pretty sure that's like the end of the game.

They lose all technology except what's on them yes. And the planet is now outside the Admin Systems Divine Order.

And Al is now Father Earth.

The question is, who else even survived? Was it just your team? Or was everyone on earth transported to the new earth? The logistics of the latter would be terrible. With no technology, there'd be no way to sustain them, and the majority would die. And the logistics of the former are pretty bizarre when you could have instead reverted it. Since you just let happen the thing you were trying to prevent anyways. At least fumi probably knows enough that within a few generations you could get some semi decent tech. Its ironic that both the kill administrator endings in desuII were retarded as balls, yet triangulum makes them into the golden ending.

wtf are talking about the chicken start liking the girl because she becomes vegan also how the fuck it even qualifies as racism when both the villagers,Narumi and Raidou are Japanese

Bug people are not Japanese. They hate Narumi and Raidou for being different and outsiders.

Daichis was the one that was worse.

>Tiny island Tokyo and endless sea.

My favourite part of the golden ending of the triangulum arc was how it made no sense whatsoever. So you can use the astrolabe and administrative authority to change a world that isn't part of the administrator system... how does that make any sense? How do you even make a world that is seperate from the system that created it?

what? are you fucking kidding me? what was the ending of smt4 then?

Well yeah. I was legitimately confused by that ending since it very obviously is a bad ending, yet the game doesn't obviously say so. At least if it made new land it would be one thing. But there's literally like a few square miles of land left on earth at best. The literal only choice for their future is to revert to a tribal society, and start killing any extra people. Nevermind the fact that no one grows food in tokyo, so they're all going to starve to death before they can do anything unless they start killing fast and hope there's enough canned food and seeds to survive til next year.

In IVs neutral end you tell everyone from mikado to move to tokyo then you lift the firmanent.

In IVs bonds ending masakado says you don't need to lift the entire thing anymore. He makes a hole in it to let light into tokyo, but mikdo isn't destroyed.

Why? What did you think happened.

Flynn forgot to ask.

No wonder why Akira is the king and Flynn is just his grunt.

>playing SMT4 for the first time
>at minotaur
>multi-hit attack
>get one critical
>:^j
>CRITICAL
>CRITICAL
>CRITICAL

I'd be more inclined to grind if I didn't have to climb all the way out of Naraku from 5 floors down to heal

keep save scumming to get jonathan instead of walter for assists in that fight

i knew having children as main characters was a bad idea.
after toki says fuck you to the elderly ladies and joins you, asahi mumbles all that shit to herself how she is worried nanashi might have a boner for toki
i can't take this anymore guys. this is the point the game turned into persona. fuck this.

i was assuming that partway through apocalypse the ceiling would be removed

Why? Unless there's a plot based reason it'll get shunted to the end.

I mean, there are some cool potential plot based reasons. But even so.

Murder them in Massacre and have Hallelujah bear your babies.

The hole was caused by Shesha.

I did exactly that and beat him immediately after my post. But holy shit, what a pain.

What's wrong? You realize that even for older characters those are real things people would say to themselves, right? I don't get what you're so buttmad about. You realize that at the point you're playing a dungeon crawler jrpg series, worrying about being "too weeb" is a ship that sailed long ago, right? You think that people in battle scenarios have no sex drives? Because that's definitely wrong.

Demons are still around so food source?

it didn't have to turn into a cutesy kawaii fucking teenage romance simulator.

Who cares? You realize that having love interests is a staple of most rpgs, and including megaten ones right? At least you don't have to fuck your mom anymore like in old games. Getting jealous about other girls is a real thing that happens. So you're complaining that the evtns don't have a strict tone of seriousness that doesn't even reflect real life any more than what you are complaining about.

maybe this is all child hate then

Because, like IVA made a point of, Law is just afterparty Chaos with a happy mask.

What is the ultimate conclusion of absolute Chaos? Someone, who is the strongest, will take reins and eventually sit on throne ruling over the population with subordinates to check on them. And smite the upstarts for attempting to revolt against them or not even care and fuck off to their own world, consider King Kenji in Infernal Tokyo. Which is EXACTLY what Law is in the end.
Or, they might not care and actually slay everyone, like Nanashi in Massacre End. They become the absolute ruler of reality and again, become God and exactly like Law.

Consider the other side - Law isn't monolithic at all. SMT 2 is just one such case with Archangels doing their thing, Satan his own and YHVH his own And they're all Law. Mastema in IV as well, literally shittalks Gabriel and says he follows Lord's orders himself. If both claim to follow YHVH, it's literally my interpretation>your interpretation and WURLD OF STR mentality with a handwave of "looks like God chose my side after all :^)))"

Comment sponsored by Musubi "extremists fuck off reeeeeee" [TM]

Anyone have a list of demon evolutions for SMT4F?

Sorry for being a dumbass, but how do I get to this part in Ginza? To meet the new ring of Gaea leaders.

...

Why is the game $50? I thought 3ds games only go to $40?

Gotta charge extra for that special untranslated dialogue.