/rlg/ - Roguelike general

Dicku would have prevented thisu

Still, theoretically it could be done. Take dynahack. It would take literally thousands of rerolls of scumming, but if you eventually started out with a ring of slow digestion and a wand of polymorph AND you used that wand to turn your pet into a vorpal jabberwock (I've seen that happen) and got a leash or magic whistle, you could respect all the conducts while letting your J kill everything with his vorpal attacks. Again, he might walk into a polytrap at ANY given moment which would mean losing every chance of winning since dyna's (one of the few variants that has vorpal Js except for slex and unnethack, but stays true to vanilla enough to be considered a regular win) polytraps disappear after use.
And then you'd have to actually ride or try to ride (I think wizards have riding set to unskilled so good luck riding a level 20 monster) the J, without ever hitting a monster, reading a scroll, polymorphing yourself and all the other fun stuff.
Feasible, but really really really hard. And impossible outside of dynahack except you could actually just turn your pet into an archlich in vanilla and do the same, but alich pets are one of the most annoying things because they teleport everywhere.

Also apparently if you're wearing a cloak of MR you protect your steed too.
So that crazy thing might actually not be so crazy after all.
And actually wizards cap at basic, not unskilled, so you could ride the jabberwock. It would be impossible to do it at low levels though since of how high level a vorpal J is and you cannot advance in levels without grabbing some XP beforehand, which is done by killing monsters,which violates the pacifist conduct...
But maybe we could be onto something. I need to learn more about riding.

How about a real man's conduct
Entire game on hallu

Of course! I could get the vorpal J, then Find a vault and let it kill the guards! This way I can farm potions of gain level and then finally be able to ride the jabberwock myself! This could work!

So, there are only a few more problems here though.
1) satiation. Foodless satiation is a complicate thing and wizards cannot start with a ring of polymorph control and a wand of polymorph, which means that the first 800 turns of satiation (greatly extended by the ring of slow digestion) are a limited resource. Anyone who tries this will need to actually find a ring of polymorph control on his own. They are not guaranteed anywhere and this could lead to some very ugly mid-to late starving deaths, unless I find enough sinks to kick, or a ring shop. Major hassle.
2) Guards are generated with wands of death, but my MR cloak probably saves my mount from them too. Probable hassle.
3) Getting a saddle. Saddles, like rings of polycontrol, are not guaranteed. They're rare, even. There is no guaranteed chance of finding a saddle. Major hassle.

Still, the odds are not as astronomical as I thought. Just really awful. Of course getting a wand of polymorph and a ring of slow digestion and turning your pet into a vorpal J at the same time is really really really far fetched. Especially the vorpal J part. There's a very tiny chance. And even after zapping him, I'd have to grab a saddle or deal with a very unruly pet with a leash.
But it could be done! Imagine not just a 12 conduct win, but a honest to god 18 conduct win! It would blow everything we've ever known about nethack out of the water.

Permahallu is the poor man's Zen. They're both really complicated and difficult of course, but people have won it before. I want to do something drastically new.

>It would blow everything we've ever known about nethack out of the water.
Especially the idea that it's supposed to be fun. I'm glad that enlightened scholars like yourself are dispelling such silly notions.

But what if I find these things fun? If my notion of fun is completely different from yours, does it make it objectively bad?
What about MuMo, don't you think it's fun?
Am I having fun in the wrong way, user?

>But what if I find these things fun?
>Pacifist wins are literally more boring than watching paint dry.
Mmmh.

>be you
>wake up at 8 AM
>"oh boy, time to have fun!"
>walk to work, hoping a meteor falls on you, lightning hits you, a bird poops on you, or something similarly unlikely happens
>work
>walk back to the homeless shelter, sad that nothing unusual, like a robbery, a terrorist attack, or a driveby shooting, happened
>your toaster dings; you have an email from your doctor
>"user you have cancer"
>be overjoyed that you are a rarity
TL;DR yes you're having fun the wrong way

Will Ultima Ratio Regum's conducts include "never commited turbo jihad on members of another religion"?

That reminds me: wasn't there supposed to be a big combat update or something? Has that happened yet?

Turned out to be bigger than expected and will come out later in the year.

I hardly call 1 in 7 a "rarity", and that's just deaths due to cancer.

Holy shit Sting is a useless starting spell. Does anyone actually play Venomancers?

I saw the unknown seed recipe - but can't you just read a blessed scroll of vanish curse to clean off all the seeds, anyway? That being said, I still have like, eighty spare fruit seeds with five farms.

Poison, or 'finish lair for free'

I remain confident in my assessment that Lasty is a fucking retard.

Ah yeah that does make sense. Still I have never had such a hard time in D:1

Venomancers are good in early D until you encounter zombies/skeletons (especially the centaur/frog one) and enter an ossuary wondering how the fuck you're supposed to clear it (since you're supposed to not enter it).

!degen could actually be made interesting by simply making the player quaff every potion stack if quaff ID'd resulting in a pseudo paralysis depending on number with matching Tomb-tier drain and potentially sending you to 0 stat.

>quaffing un-ID'd potions now costs 1 addition aut

every potion in the stack* If they could think of a flavor for it, think of something like a Zot Wine which makes you tipsy or something like that

Tbh almost every character can clear an early ossuary with an OK melee weapon at like skill four and using very good noise control, unless it's the guardian mummy one at least

Ohh? Can you clear the scorpion ossuary with a trident? Can you clear the triangle ossuary with 1x1 corridor and Menaukure is at the end of it? Do you always have one/three !lignis in your @ pocket during an ossuary?

Remember that, while minor, there are other ways to get experience. Stuff like consulting the oracle or eating tripe can get you to level 3/4 on their own

Do you feel lucky punk?

>freeze

>hill giant on d:8
>now this
Ok dude

I forgot an image but i have a better one now
FUCK

>not acid punk
Ultra plebian

Only reason you would EVER quaff ID is if you're desperate and couldn't identify earlier in the first place, or if you know both of them are good becuase you already identified everything else and don't want to just use ID

All that would add would be an arbitrary russian roulete that punishes players for not being lucky enough

degeneration is a fun potion
they should add poison and paralysis potions back

Those orcs sure can afford a lot of beefy guards.

Why are they only looking at haste? They could make it a level 8 spell like they did to cBlink but somehow this doesn't cross their mind at all. What is with cBlink, which is objectively an even waaaay more ridiculous spell than Haste (and game breaking when combined so both of them should be removed), that the devs love so much that they're willing to turn a blind eye to this? It's sticking out like a sore thumb yet no one pays attention to it

Orc wasnt even on that level honestly and it was easy, i confused hydra, it killed itself in the process of me running away and then i cleaned up everything bit by bit

Still it had been much more fun in the past. I remember one player surviving on potions of decay in Tomb — else he'd die of starvation.

Anything that adds even a little bit of excitement is improvement. There are people that belittles early ID game on potions, this would wreck them. If the devs could actually code !degen so it changes its spawning rate every single new game, this would make it even more exciting.

Sure, everything always comes out in the worst possible way

I still forgot a lot but the gist of it is that there are ossuaries a Venomancer is not meant to clear or even try at all. Good thing the exit is always a few tiles away from you.

Instadeath buttons are never exciting, they're just annoying. All that change would do is remove player freedom and make it possible for a single offline fatfinger to destroy almost any character. In any case, people who don't use their early ID on potions are just an stupidly and incredibly rare group they're not worth making major changes around

>using mouse at all

found your issue

what did he mean by this

>instadeath

Degens do not reduce your hp at all, making death due to solely quaffing it simply impossible.

That has nothing to do with using the mouse

Read He wanted to make it so if you quaffed a single unidentified potion you'd be forced to quaff EVERY potion in the stack, to make it possible for degen to send you to stat 0 and nigh-guaranteed death on early game

So what happens when every player drops their stacks of non-ID'd pots besides one?
Remove the ability to drop part of a stack?

all that would do is make you drop all but one un-id'd potions and then backtrack the useful ones when you've identified them

aka tedium

If you used your brain a little bit, you could easily avoid that danger if you don't quaff highly stacked unID'd potions at all, assuming that the said feature is implemented. This would add risk and a little variety to the common "if I quaff'd this highly stacked potion, this may have a chance to have !curing in it"

I have no idea what's going on, but this is breddy fun.

Should I be capturing as many dudes as possible?

Yes, you can always scuttle pokemons you don't need.

no, that adds BORING TEDIUM because the strategy will then be to drop all but one of a potion before you quaff it

>adding interest/improvement in a boring why-is-this-even-here feature a.k.a bloat is tedium

retart

you are crawl-dev material

Yes you fucking idiot, that's why it's completely irrelevant and the only time it could potentially come up is if people press the wrong key when trying to quaff something or to add an extra layer of RNG if you haven't got a lot of early ID and you need to emergency quaff. Neither is good design

What about spreading their XP too thin?

Are three swole pokemangs better than six scrubs?

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think it works like that. They get the same XP regardless of how full your roster is.

Anyway you're probably gonna need all 6 of them.

>accidentally quaffing a !degen which doesn't happen in 123120312034543 games and just getting 9(10) str 2(4) int 4(5) dex and 1 (one) turn wasted is Good Design

see

>greatsling
>freeze

Hear me out.

Evaporate was removed. Sublimation doesn't work on corpses anymore. Why not just give malpots the a ability to explode when thrown?

Congrats, you just turned a useless feature into a cool one, and hey, it works just like in Brogue, and we all know how much of a fat one the devs have for Brogue.

Try reading again, more slowly this time
>!degen could actually be made interesting by simply making the player quaff every potion stack if quaff ID'd resulting in a pseudo paralysis depending on number with matching Tomb-tier drain and potentially sending you to 0 stat.
>!degen could actually be made interesting by simply making the player quaff every potion stack if quaff ID'd
>by simply making the player quaff every potion stack if quaff ID'd
>making the player quaff every potion stack if quaff ID'd
>every potion

>resulting in a pseudo paralysis depending on number with matching Tomb-tier drain and potentially sending you to 0 stat.

And "it happens rarely" is not an excuse to have a bad feature when that rare event happening is requirement for the bad feature to be relevant

Why is freeze bad on a sling?

Instead of putting in a pointless mechanic that brings us back to the days of dropping potions to avoid freezing them, why don't they just leave it as is?

The only time you're quaff-ID'ing is when you're only a few turns away from death and are looking for !curing or !hw.

BUT since curing is never guaranteed to be the biggest stack in your inventory, this change would add nothing and only burden the player by removing INTERESTING CHOICES from the game.

The number of times I've died because I tried to find curing and ended up quaffing flight, brill, magic, agil, and cancellation instead are too many to count.

Bring back poison and para potions. Increasing variety decreases chance of curing or hw, and every potion you quaff-ID that isnt one of them adds enough excitement to the game as is.

It WOULD be unfun if it was just waiting for your pet to kill stuff, but not if you were riding an FLYING HUGE BEAST WITH CLAWS THAT TEAR REALITY ITSELF AND INSTAKILLS EVERYTHING EVERY FIVE HITS and doesn't even need food.
It's literally just like flying a fucking t-rex armed with lasers.

Why is it a bad feature? Because you can get blown the fuck out by an absolutely 100% avoidable death-inducing feature cuz baddie?

Clearing out vaults 5 right now, which of these weapons would be better for killing orbs of fire? The katana or the double sword?

>potion of poison - spawns mephitic cloud at point of impact
>potion of strong poison - spawns poison cloud at point of impact
>potion of confusion - guarantee confuse a living enemy
>potion of paralysis - guarantee paralyze a living enemy
>potion of degeneration - spawns miasma cloud at point of impact
>potion of water - spawns fog at point of impact
>potion of mutation - guarantee polymporh a living enemy

There.

>hurr durr too strong
Teduce generation rate until satisfied.

>muh inventory space
Make comestible inventory separate. Oh hey look, you solved a bunch of other problems too.

But I guess clearing up sexist monster descriptions is more important. Remove everything.

But it would affect any potion you quaff-ID

Which is probably the stupidest thing your character could do conceptually.

"I don't know what this potion is, BETTER DRINK ALL OF THEM."

Why not just give potions of degeneration stronger stat drain?

Why kill the player in 1 turn when they're probably already in a situation where they'll die in 3 turns anyways?

Shitty concept if you ask me.

Occasionally I am struck by a certain feeling, once every few hours - 'What a game, and who thought of this shit?'

>tfw these two maces along with manual of maces in minotaur
Is this game taunting me?

It's bad becuase it's irrelevant. Something that you don't normally have to put any active effort or thought towards avoiding, which you can't avoid in any way if the situation comes for it to be relevant, and which crumples up your character and sends him right to the shitter if it actually happens is terrible design

It's like making people lose a level if Menkaure torments a gnoll while a goblin is adjacent and they're paralyzed

Too nethackish. That's not streamlined at all.

I'm not arguing in favor of the feature

What am I in for?

>which you can't avoid in any way

I just told you this and you're still spouting that retarded assumption. I actually have more solutions to avoid it 100% but that would be overkill now wouldn't it?

fsim says katana, by far

user, we are talking about how to turn a CURRENTLY TOLERATED bloat to an actually relevant feature, not to add more.

>to an actually relevant feature
quaffing the whole stack of un-id'd potions would be a relevant feature in exactly 0% of the cases.

How fucking stupid are you?

>in exactly 0%

fuck off quaff ID shitter

see
You're not adding anything interesting to the game, you're just bringing back the tedium of dropping potions to avoid freezing them.
In this case you're dropping un-ID'd stacks to avoid having more than one, while having to keep track of which ones you have more of to prioritze quaff-ID'ing should the need arise.

Have you considered killing yourself yet?

I hope this guy was worth 14 max hp and four items.

>bad potions
>bloat

Have you considered that the purpose of bad potions is to discourage quaff-ID'ing in the first place?

If you're quaff-ID'ing, you're already less than 3 turns away from death, what's the purpose of reducing that to 1 turn.

The game already prevents you from being retarded and quaffing ID'd degen, why would it make you chug all of them at once? Is your character retarded?

If you want degen to be scary, make it stronger. Don't put in a "My character is an alcoholic and doesn't know when to stop drinking" mechanic.

>adding another gameplay (importance of ID'ing potions or suffer a risk) due to a single potion besides !mutation is not interesting

you're just deluding yourself at this point

Man, that morningstar almost looks like an unrand. It simply doesn't have any actual quick going for it.

quaff ID'ing*

They make for assassin demons thanks to their SP-draining attack.

Glitches. Tread very carefully!

I got some dragons and a regular jabberwock
no combination of slow digestion/poly yet, just fucking around seeing if I actually can poly my cat into a vorpal J

Name a situation where you're quaff-ID'ing for a specific potion and you're not about to die in 3 turns anyways.