My friend just told me torque is irrelevant for acceleration and only horsepower matters. He's an engineer...

Horsepower is a measure of wattage.
Torque is a measure of torque (lel) it measures the force around an axis.

HP is what realllllllly matters, but it needs to torque to do something. Super duper 1 billion % grab tires can actually cancel out torque.

That's not a lap time though.

>Torque is a measure of torque
>lel
>force around an axis
>realllllllly matters
>it needs to torque to do something
>Super duper 1 billion % grab tires
>cancel out torque
SHIIIIEEEET

It's faster

radical >you

Horsepower is a measure of work done over a period of time
It is literally acceleration
Torque is purely irrelevant for any measure of performance

Without a lap time, how can you be so sure?

radical >you

stop bullying him user

No lap time =\= faster than SR8

The Tesla Model S is 100% torque and it has the fastest acceleration in the world.

Tell your friend to kill himself

Ok, ok

radical > you

Stay BTFO

>pulling the "bullying" card

damn, this cuck actually belives anyone cares about Veeky Forums in real life

>fastest acceleration in the world
Its slower than a bike with like 100lbft

>No proof radical said this
Keep making things up

>spoon feed me!
Look it up, cuck

>can't prove it
Roflmao damage control

Im not BTFO in the least.
I just want to know what the lap time was.

He's right though. A car with 200hp and 500lb/ft torque would accelerate slower than a car with 250hp and 100lb/ft

>spoon feed me mommy!!!
Faster than the sr8

>i really don't care h-honest!
>yfw

My dad works for radical and said they have a new sr8 prototype that's faster than the rxc
Stay btfo

Faster in what way?

No he doesn't. Nice damage control.

Radical already said it's faster. Stay mad.
Around a track atleast.

Retard alert.

E=VM^2

The lower mass is the critical difference.

Learn to high school physics

Without a lap time, no it isnt faster around a track.

It is.

radical>you

Stay triggered

Wrong. There are diesel drag cars and race cars that only have 300 odd hp. They run a quarter mile in the same time as a 1000 hp gasoline car

Torque IS measured at the crank
Otherwise miatas would be reading like 10,000lbft at the wheels on a dyno
You have a very rudimentary understanding and think you know everything. You're a clueless retard and I suggest in the future you keep your dumb ass mouth shut

>A car with 200hp and 500lb/ft torque would accelerate slower than a car with 250hp and 100lb/ft
Regardless of this scenario being bullshit
>[citation needed]

>No he doesn't
Yes he does. Now go away ass blasted dog fucker

I guess that's why no one cared when each successive GTR still had 276ps but the torque figure kept increasing

is this you tell to yourself to be able to sleep?

No, he doesn't. Stay triggered.

>g-go away and stop hurting my feelings!!!
Absolutely BTFO
Kek

You are one dumb mother fucker
Please never post on this board again

>can't prove he doesn't
>just wishes that were so bevause can't deal with reality
BTFO

>miatas would be reading like 10,000lbft at the wheels on a dyno
>You have a very rudimentary understanding

Look it up cuck

>spoon feed me mommy!!
Your dad doesn't work for radical.

Kill yourself cuck

You understand that gearing multiplies torque from the engine right? So wheel reading would always be higher than reading at the engine
You can kys as well, torquecuck

My dad works for valve u gon get vac band

>V8 cuckolds btfo this hard

4th is supposed to be 1:1 or very close, no?

>You understand that gearing multiplies torque from the engine right?
You understand that gearing multiplies power from the engine right?

Call him a fucking retard and show him a book that explains it to him like he's in middle school

>You understand that gearing multiplies power from the engine right?
Are you pretending to be retarded or are you serious right now?

and 1st gear is ~4:1, and the FD is 4:1
okay it's not 10000lbft but I believe it's called exaggerating to make a point

>it's called exaggerating to make a point
It's called being a retard.

He's not the one who thinks torque equals acceleration or is measured at the wheels

>can't recognise meanings through use of language
>calls others retarded
lmao @ ur life

First post is best post.

I completely fail to understand how torque can't be measure at the wheels if it's literally defined as "a vector that measures the tendency of a force to rotate an object about some axis."

I can't tell who's trolling and who's just retarded anymore, the engineer is correct obviously.

Torque by itself is irrelevant in determining acceleration. With two correctly geared cars of the same weight the determining factor is power.

torque can be measured at the wheels it's just pointless since it's different for every gear and axle ratio.

How is it pointless if you can calculate it from 1:1 through fourth gear?

the final drive still multiplies it. What would be the purpose of measuring torque at the wheels?

...

I still dont understand tork/hp.

But what I think I know is : they are same thing calculated and expressed differently.

What you really want to know is torque CURVE and hp CURVE, cuz that makes all the difference.

That feel when no torque on a very steep hill start

torque and power are both measured at the crank and at the wheel. "bhp" means brake horsepower and it's referring to power measured at the crank, and "whp" means wheel horse power, which is the wheel.

the transmission multiplies the torque and the power.

torque is the amount of force required to move something a certain distance, and power is the amount of torque over a certain period of time.

something could theoretically have a high amount of torque and still be very slow if it delivered that torque over a long period. likewise, something could also theoretically have a very high amount of horsepower and still be slow because the torque is low and delivered over a very short interval.

really, you're both wrong. you could have something pushing 1000 hp and only be pushing like 10 ft lbs, and it wouldn't even move your miata. you could also have something push 1000 ft lbs, but only 10 hp, and it would have no problem moving your miata, but it would go extremely slowly.

Ding ding ding
The hp curve is the torque curve multiplied by RPM factor. Every wonder why on every single dynograph the hp and torque curve cross over at 5250 rpms?
OP, you are a retard. Only hp matters. In the real world "torque" is suggestive of a cars acceleration as sometimes little shitboxes like hondas dont make power til 7k rpm because no "torque all hp." Your engineer friend is right and you use redneck car science.

Only hp matters. Not peak hp either,the whole curve. Which guess what? Is directly related to the (meaningless) unit of torque because the magic of transmissions

But ur friend is wrong. Torque is measured at the wheel on a dyno. Then mathematically knowing gear ratios and RPM this is converted wheel hp and torque numbers. Hp and torque numbers given by mfgs are cheater numbers woth the engines not installed in a vehicle.

>a=F*m, with the force F being torque multiplied with the wheel radius
Its F=ma bud. Your units dont check out

how to calculate crank bhp using a wheel dyno
>From a fast idle, the operator will then hit full throttle and let the car accelerate the rollers as fast as it can until it reaches the redline, and then release the accelerator pedal, and hit the clutch.
>The vehicle will be left to decelerate by itself, still in the chosen gear, until it reaches the start speed again. The purpose of the Run Down is to measure the drag from the drivetrain. It isn't perfect, but it's the best way to estimate the frictional losses that the car has to force through, and this Drivetrain loss will be added onto the Wheel power measurement to give an estimate of the power that the engine is producing. Keeping it with just the clutch depressed isolates any engine braking that will appear as a greater drivetrain loss, and still measure the frictional losses as best it can through to the gearbox.

Bizarre never seen anyone aftermarket actually care about crank numbers. That has to be a drag queen thing. Easier way to be run a stock dyno and compare bhp from mfg to whp to calculate efficiency.

Are you retarded? F=m*a you asstwat.

Work over time. Definition of power. Not acceleration.
Jesus fuck has anyone learnt physics?

in this part of the world it's how it's done. it makes it easier to see how much power a stock car is putting out compared to the manufacturer's quoted figure, and how much power increase a tuned car has relative to stock.

i've only ever seen stuff like rwhp on this board, as if it's trying to remind FWDfags that they're inferior

>how much rwhp does your civic have?
>o-oh... i-it has z-zero
>B T F O

Odd in america nobody cares about crank hp (as it is meaningless), however you are on to somethng with your calculation of crank power via dyno. The reason fwhp, rwhp, and awhp is used is to differentiate that numbers at the wheels being equal, the awd would have the most powerful engine and the fwd the least due drivetrain losses for dick waving contests.

wouldn't they just measure it in the research and development phase, when they have the engine rigged up? it's not like when you buy a brand new car they tell you exactly what the peak torque for that car is. they tell you what they previously measured in r and d.

also, i think "crank bhp" is a redundancy

Yeah they rate the engine in isolation because from a scientific pov it makes more sense to do if you're using the same engine again and again.
Whp can vary from something like tyre pressure so it makes no sense to use it to assess how well an engine performs.

They didn't all have 276PS, that's fairly common knowledge. They had to say they did by law but its incredibly doubtful that any actually came out of the factory with 276HP.

Torque and horsepower are literally linked together by a factor of RPM, unless you increase the rev limit of the engine you can't change torque without changing horsepower.