Is there any point to using premium gasoline

premium but not from supermarkets

That's what the methanol is for.

Premium (98 RON) as I have a 98 only tune.

I very rarely venture anywhere that may not have premium, and for those times they'll have octane booster anyway.

91 for the 323, 95 for the Ninjette.

Higher octane fuel isn't worth it unless your vehicle is tuned to take advantage of the higher knock rating.

I specifically seek out Petro Canada stations with Ultra 94 (thats 101 Euro-octane). If none are near by, 91 V-Power at Shell.

my car changes its tune on regular and makes less power when factory

since Ive upped the boost I feel like I should use 93 all the time

Depends on the engine.

You're not gaining anything by doing that unless your engine has forced induction.

I fill up with 89 because it's got a somewhat high compression ratio but not enough to require premium. It does ping on 87 sometimes.

Premium in an older high performance car, yes. Otherwise no.

It depends on your driving habits. If you are easy on the acceleration, most cars can take lower octane. And modern cars have knock sensors, so detonation isn't a big problem. The ECU will just retard your timing and performance will go to shit.

Question: Why don't manufacturers put a little light on the dash which says 'knock' when the knock sensor is triggered? That way, drivers can judge whether their habits require a step up in octane or the cheap stuff will suffice.

If you tune it then yes.

That would absolutely destroy their JD Powers score

>engine gets a few extra HP
wrong

>running higher octane than needed is good now?

media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/asset.download.document.pdf.html/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/product/2016/2016-Ford-Fusion-Tech-Specs-FINAL.pdf
>2.0-liter EcoBoost I-4
>87 octane, minimum; 91-plus, recommended

autonews.com/article/20150428/BLOG06/304299998/the-knock-on-higher-octane
>Octane is a measurement of gasoline’s resistance to ignite when compressed in an engine’s cylinder. High octane can make a small engine produce more power. For example, if you fill the tank of a 2015 Ford Mustang equipped with the turbo four-cylinder engine with 93 octane premium, the horsepower is 310. But switch to 87 octane regular and the horsepower level drops. Ford won’t say by how much, but a Ford Fusion loses 9 hp running on regular vs. premium.

because 95% of drivers just want a transportation appliance.

Take the miata for example, it is a fun car, about as un appliance as you can get. THey originally had true oil pressure sensors. Customers would contact their dealership or bring it in for service because the oil pressure was low at idle. Mazda changed it to a simple sender.

Like i said most people don't care about a car, of those that do must just care that it is fast and shiny. A knock sensor is one more thing for customers to complain about and not understand.

and if you don't own one of those cars?

>different cars work differently
Point being, my car runs fine on regular, but gets 9 extra HP with premium (91 octane or above) gas. Other cars may be different, but I am not "wrong" as says in the case of my car.

Best advice: Read the owners manual and see what fuel is advised, if you put in fuel of a higher grade than recommended then you're definitely wasting your time/money.

You're a fucking moron if you think every engine needs the same octane

if you don't own an ecoboost car, you don't own a real car.

9hp is not worth the expense unless you're racing.
I bet if I fill your car with regular and told you it was premium you couldn't tell.

You're a child if you put the highest octane in because "more must be better, right?"

94 AKI because it's the only ethanol-free option
>mfw I switched from 87 + 10% ethanol and went down from 11L/100km to 8L/100km
One of these days I should actually figure out how to tune it for the higher grade and see what happens.

The same. For some month I used 100 RON while the engine wss new, but after all I think that was just a waste of money.

You lose more by having less then recommended octane, then gain by using more than recommended octane. Those few extra HP are laughable at most.

>94 here has 10% ethanol
>user manual and gas cap say up to E15 is good

No harm to longevity if I keep using it then, right?

Regular 87 from Petro Canada

>mfw seeing lower gas prices in the states

Regular is all my truck or Fit requires

All cars can (or rather should be able to) take regular fuel.
Premium isnt needed and the "extra" amount of power you get is not noticeable for 94% of the daily driving people

I actively search for shell for the premium in my mustang. In my Hyundai Sonata I go to sam's club for the regular since it's cheaper by 20-30 cents. I don't really care about that car lol

Then it is a total waste unless you have some sort of aftermarket tune/chip/etc that specifically needs it. New performance cars can detect higher octane fuel and get more power out of it by adjusting on the fly. If it detects lower octane it cuts the power.

Yeah, but my point is that I buy 87 octane most of the time and it's marginal, but when I occasionally buy 93 octane (because Costco offers no midgrade) I get a little extra HP.

I could run the car fine on 87 from the day I got it until I'm done with it and the car would run fine.

>car runs 11.0:1 compression ratio
yes you stupid fuck of course I do.

Detonation is shit yo.

>Why don't manufacturers put a little light on the dash which says 'knock' when the knock sensor is triggered?

It's a proven fact in marketing history that offering any kind of NEGATIVE feedback device results in consumers thinking the product is defective. It's far more effective for the car's computer to hide the knock (and have reduced gas mileage) on low octane regular gasoline than it is for the manufacturer to admit the car has poor gas mileage unless premium gas is used.

What trips up consumers is that when they switch to premium out of using regular, they complain the premium didn't do anything for their mileage. However, the computer also adapts its settings over a 150 mile or so driving period. If they immediately start hooning due to the feel there is a bit more power going uphill on premium, then they will negate the MPG benefit they could have had if they drove the same way when their computer was retarding the engine to prevent knocking.

How do you not cry when you see the price/litre on that

Premium. High-compression engine demands premium fuel.

Yeah, my s54 is designed for 98 RON

>Old owner used 95
>Scan for errors
>Excessively retarded spark timing
>Incorrect fuel grade used

A tune doesn't do anything in a normally aspirated engine

Premium from Chevron only. My car requires premium, so I give it the best premium I can. If I can't find a Chevron, I'll put Shell in. Nothing else.

what kind of pleb car you driving that doesnt require premium

I use 95RON on my daily, my RX7 would explode on anything less than 99 though.

Buy TOP TIER gas, they're required to put in the detergent levels recommended by car manufacturers at all grades, including regular gas. Everything else is just octane.

Being that loyal to a brand vs. other top tier brands is stupid (unless you have a credit/corporate card requiring you to buy gas from that brand).

So is sunoco considered top tier gas or what

Sunoco isn't TOP Tier. They do beat EPA minimums, but TOP Tier is about 3-4x EPA minimums and Costco uses around 5x EPA minimum.

For their part:
sunoco.com/quality-fuels/our-fuels/
>Sunoco fuels significantly exceed U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) gasoline detergency standards. All grades of Sunoco fuel contain the same level of detergent.

Kid, do some reading.

advancing ignition timing, which will require higher octane, does something.

Wrong!

Wrong!

My nigguh, this guy probably knows some stuff, rx7 won't last long in the hands of a novice. Rotary, turning normal men into mechanical engineers since 1929.

Because the manufacturer hasn't already optimized ignition timing for power and efficiency at all engine loads and speeds given the fixed compression ratio, right?

nobody said that.

certain engines require higher octane. that's all he's saying m8

Typical Veeky Forums poster
bus riding clown shoe loser

premium gas pays for itself in the extra mileage
plus like 4 horsepower

Y'all niggahs need to read and understand what activation energy is and how it ties in with Octane ratings.

They have, for a certain octane rating. If you car was set up to be optimized for 87 us octane, you could increase ignition timing and perhaps pick up a little power but you will now need to run a higher octane.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

It isn't.

My 76 runs on and pinks on 95 desu

87 octane because that's what my user manual says.

The ignition timing is set from the factory to produce peak cylinder pressure at the optimum crank angle for maximum torque. The only difference between lower octane gas and higher octane gas is that higher octane gas burns slower, so the ignition timing will have to be adjusted to compensate for the slower burning fuel. Peak pressure is still peak pressure, so you won't gain any power by using a slower burning fuel and advanced ignition timing.

In other words, a tune doesn't do anything in a normally aspirated engine.

miata.net/garage/KnowYourCar/S10_Timing.html

I'm not saying that a ecu flash on a modern normal ecu controlled engine will net you any great power, but to say adjusting ignition timing won't do anything is silly.

He's speaking in terms of power gains mr grand autismo

Well there's one thing it does for sure, and that's relieve you of your money.

BMW with M44, only go to shell because its the best gas, and use to put in cheapest (87) and car started getting a few wierd engine noises and stuttering occasionally. Swapped up to 89 and that made all the difference in the world. No more stuttering, all the noises went away and the car feels a little bit more lively. No need for premium, ive tried that and its has absolutely 0 effects for my shit engine. But in my S54 if you run anything less than 91 you are basically grenading the engine and are a retard.

So yes gas makes a difference but not on all cars. It can cause you to get better MPG too because the engine will be running smoother with less effort. Simple stuff really.

>A knock sensor is one more thing for customers to complain about and not understand.

Then that car will be engineered to tke piss in the gas tank. And the instrument cluster will be a happy face.

A knock indicator makes sense on cars that people expect more performance from than the daily driver. Also the sort of car that will be more sensitive to driving style, octane. And that's the sort of car that drivers will want some performance gauges on.

Premium here usually is non-ethanol. My car requires, and my bikes run better on it

ITT: People who don't know their shit

I honestly get at least 4mpg better with premium over regular.

By not being poor

Actually, I'm semi-poor, so I just try not to think about it.

Do you even Ecoboost son?

Older port-injected turbo cars or older high-compression engines without knock detection can't really run on regular. It was only with direct injection that you can run 87 with boost because it gets injected just before tdc and has a cooling effect. On a port injected motor the whole charge is homogeneous and compressed/heated as the piston moves upwards on the compression stroke and as 87 is more volatile it is more susceptible to pre-ignition.

All the time, mainly because the engine calls for it to prevent knock. I'm sure I could negate the need for it by using pretty much just an intercooler, but if I were to go through the trouble of spending $800 for a stage 2 water-to-air intercooler kit, then I would end up building and tuning everything else to the point where I'd need premium again anyway.

>ignition timing is set from the factory to produce peak cylinder pressure at the optimum crank angle for maximum torque
haha no. unless you drive something highly strung most manufacturers run a very safe tune

>as 87 is more volatile it is more susceptible to pre-ignition
thats sounds like bullshit

Regular for its greater energy content per volume.

are you fucking serious

read more

Shorter chain hydrocarbons are more volatile, less energy dense and less susceptible to detonation.

Its like you don't what words mean you fucking retard.
volatility =/= tendency to pre ignition or detonation

Legacy GT: 93 AKI
Why: Minimum of 91 AKI specified by manufacturer

M3: 93 AKI
Why: Minimum of 91 AKI specified by manufacturer

Miata: 87 AKI
Why: Minimum of 87 AKI specified by manufacturer

Many modern engines actually make more horsepower on premium than regular do to ECU adapting and bumping up the ignition timing. It's not enough to bother worrying about.

Also, take note that different countries may use different ratings that have similar rating scores. In the US, we use the mean number of RON and MON. When the two numbers are averaged, it's call AKI (Anti-Knock Index). Before you shit on the US for having bad gasoline (we don't), note that the rating you have in mind may be RON or MON only, which will score higher for the same fuel.

Brand doesn't make any difference at all. I don't know why people specify that they only use Shell or Mobil or whatever. It's all the same heavily regulated product, and for our purposes may as well all come from the same place. Just don't ever fill up when the station is getting refueled. If you see a fuel tanker above the gas station tanks, keep driving.

i use 91-93 (US) in my drz and the cheapest shit for my 90s nissan ecobox

Mechanical engineers don't even bother with the wankel engine.
Honestly our lecturer spent 5 seconds on it and startes the slide with, "the engine that will save the world."

Even my 12 year old SAAB gets more hp from premium fuel because it among a lot of other high-tech engines adapt to the fuel you pour into them.
If you don't put 98 octane or 91 or whatever it is in USA it will suffer performance to prevent engine knock, since it's a high compression turbo engine after all.

In short, if your engine doesn't need it, don't buy it.

>premium fuel
>prevents engine knock
Eurocucks believe this.

Idiot

THIS!

my 04 HEMI ran like shit on 87 octane, factory recommended 89 minimum. damn thing was expensive as hell to feed.

>power
maybe, maybe not
>efficiency
for efficiently combusting small amounts of fuel for emissions and mileage mandates, not necessarily efficiency in the top of the power band where the majority of drivers will never rev

There's no reason to use one over the other. While premium can give you better MPG, the price offsets it to the point that it doesn't matter.
I guess premium is better for a road trip (since you have to fill up slightly less often) but otherwise there's no reason to use it over regular unless your car NEEDS a higher octane fuel.

regular for the shitbox that recommends it.

premium for the higher compression bike that will diesel knock otherwise.

Jesus christ this. Normies will never understand.

Whatever your manual reccomends is that you should be getting.

I have a high compression forced induction engine so I use Premium 91 octane (highest regularly available in California). I'll be running a 93 tune in the next couple months, so I'll need to start mixing octane booster etc to get my required 93, but I'm fine with that.

Currently I will only fill up my car at Chevron. I refuse to gas up anywhere else.

What happens to the gas when trucks are filling the tanks?