Has anyone else seen this on the internet lately? There's a "moral dilemma" quiz being posted around the internet. Supposedly this quiz is about the ethics around self-driving vehicles, but I think the quiz itself is bait and that the entire thing is about sparking a viral discussion about something with no clear right or wrong answer.
The ethical dilemma itself is stupid. I don't believe a self-driving car can fail so catastrophically, and even if it could, programming ethical logic into it seems a premature optimization. Wouldn't a car that advanced be able to tell that the brake line has been severed anyway?
That said, who would Veeky Forums kill? Pedestrians? Passengers?
Nigga kill the pedestrians I don't want to be killed by my own car
Liam Myers
i'd take the head on, i'd actually stand a pretty good chance of surviving desu
those kids get hit at that speed they're tomato paste
and yes it'd be dumb to program ethics into a self driving car before there's even a framework for proper autonomy, and this particular scenario would basically never happen
I think the rules of the quiz make it so that either passengers or pedestrians die every time. That's what you get when you have second-rate flunkies masquerading as philosophers, though.
The sheer inapplicability of these questions convinces me even more that the quiz is bait. I wish something could be done to undermine the quiz itself.
Luis Moore
How about stop the fucking car?
Lincoln Taylor
the funniest part is that even if this hilariously improbably scenario happens.....who cares? how many lives would be saved by the technology overall before this freak accident happened?
It seems the results are likely encoded in as a 32-bit integer. Wonder if this is how the "social media" spread is being tracked.
Charles Collins
Technically you could just reck people's cars and even kill them by just running infront of one in one of these situations.
So best keep it trying to keep the driver safe since it's the pedestrians fault anyways
Ayden Powell
>people panic and run >car pushes concrete barrier onto them >everyone dies
Luis Ortiz
the early articles about this had the car ruining over people on the food path as the ethical option
>obey the law >get killed
Juan Fisher
>The ethical dilemma itself is stupid. I don't believe a self-driving car can fail so catastrophically, and even if it could, programming ethical logic into it seems a premature optimization. Wouldn't a car that advanced be able to tell that the brake line has been severed anyway?
This. All of these are false dilemmas, unless multiple systems have failed catastrophically and then we enter into the realm of the imaginary scenario.
In a real life situation, the car would be engineered in such a way that it would never enter into a situation that did not have a safe alternative. It would find an alternate route, or slow down so that it could handle unexpected obstacles.
Mason Adams
Do you think social media users use logic?
Connor Walker
I did this as if it was a self driving car, meaning no accidents should happen on your end. I assumed that's what it was about. Just realized this is for humans driving.
I was confused why the self driving car was speeding with a crosswalk activating
I ended up being 100% lawful.
Lucas Hall
this do you think ther's morality in corporations? do you think a company will sell cars that will kill its owners in whatever situation?
Colton Myers
Realistically it would be safer to just hit the kids. In a head on or small overlap crash, chances are one of the vehicles is going to bounce right into them.
The -best- solution for this would be to get close, but not necessarily hit, the other vehicle. You might hit one or two kids, but as a result you would avoid the possibility of one of the vehicles becoming a projectile and killing everyone in this scenario.
If it was a perfect world and it was a simple matter of pick A and nothing harms B, the hitting the car would be the safest bet. Vehicles are already so safe that both drivers stand a fair chance to survive at the low speeds you would be traveling for there to be a cross walk.
In the end though, its a stupid question that is hard to answer because there's so many unknown variables.
Thomas Green
Kill the occupants every time. That's what you get for being a self driving car owning cuck
Juan Miller
> second rate flunkies > MIT
Pick one
Kevin White
>believing in ivy league hype l e l
Dominic Evans
If you're a pedestrian ever it's in your best interest for the self-driving car to kill its passengers. This way, the only cars on the market are those that minimize the chances of death.
If the car were allowed to mow down peds, companies would have no incentive to build safe cars.
Kayden Hall
MIT isn't immune to doing stupid things.
Tyler Lopez
automated cars will come to a point where these decisions will happen it is unquestionable that self driving cars will become the dominant form of transportation in the near future at a certain point this will mean by sheer number of miles driven, both failures will happen and morons walking in the street will happen cars (the non-self-driving kind) already have front facing cameras that can discern humans/animals, determine if they are in the path of the vehicle, and brake for the driver
the problem comes when you throw the ability to steer into the problem now you have to make on the fly decisions on where to steer >companies would have no incentive to build safe cars governments will never not enforce safety requirements
Aiden Carter
the pedestrians didnt buy the car though. my point is no one will buy a car that will kill them
Easton Wright
This, the fact that it calls it murder suggests it was either created by idiots or made to look it it was created by idiots.
Wyatt Lewis
Why should I die because some dumb parent pushed their kid in front of me.
Lucas Evans
People buy cell phones all the time, and all of them can catch fire if there's a minor design flaw that allowed the Li-ion battery to touch an electrolytic solution such as water.
The point is to make cars so safe that people will buy them after weighing the chances of death. This puts the onus of safety on the car maker rather than regulation.
I'd settle for a happy medium where the self-driving car acts as a dumb projectile when faced with a dilemma, though.
Colton Diaz
what are the chances that a self driving car is going to be allowed to start driving when the ABS system is throwing a dtc
Jaxson Phillips
i think it's actually important that the cars be designed to continue driving despite pedestrians it isn't all butterflies and happiness to think about scenarios with 5 babies' strollers in the same intersection are being steamrolled by a robot suburban but maybe in a world where we have automated blocks of aluminium, fiberglass, and steel moving at 80mph we should be properly educating the autonomous humans in the world how to be properly safe near roads. maybe put the responsibility in the hands of those responsible instead of creating a system designed to bail them out before they even make mistakes
the humans responsible for putting 5 babies in the path of a vehicle that is moving too fast to avoid them by braking, are the humans who have an ethical dilemma, not the car driving
Camden Hughes
Kill law breakers every time.
Jayden Brooks
nigga are you retarded? it's not about safety, it's just a dumb fuck ''''dillema''''. Your cell phone doesnt actively seeks to kill you in order to save someone else.
Xavier Cooper
also never kill the passengers.
Jaxon Myers
Under what circumstances is a self-driving car in today's society with today's technology going to be able to differentiate between classes of human? I mean, don't get me wrong, a lidar with proper pattern detection can probably find SJW third wave feminists easily enough given their signal to noise ratio, but otherwise its unlikely.
To that end, I feel like they are skewing their own results by adding a completely unnecessary moral dilemma on top, albeit attempting to humanize the subjects. The reality is the passengers don't want to die and the likelihood of people knowingly purchasing a car that would put a bustle of cats or deer in priority over the driver is close to nil. (Good thing nobody researches their car purchases ahead of time anyway)
Benjamin Martin
The solution is to not let the car drive itself.
I'm going to miss when man-operated cars are outlawed.
Liam Edwards
DEJA VU
Sebastian Foster
Your car will constantly stream a mesh where points represent people and are weighted by social media presence. It will then be able to compute the value of a chunk of people by computing the sum of social value in the convex hull.
The group of people with the least followers on Twitters multiplied by Facebook friends will die.
Ethan Diaz
...
Caleb Long
It still has a '''chance''' to '''kill''' (((You))). Self-driving cars will get to that point if the market demands it.
Joshua Watson
>comparing a fucking mobile phone to an AI car
Christian Edwards
I agree with user. Predictable outcomes give us a framework to work with.
Connor Miller
Multi lane drifting.
Owen Brown
I'm comparing risk to risk, dumbass. Who cares if it is a phone, a car, a bike, or a plane.
Have you never flown on a plane? You realize planes usually kill everyone on board when they crash, right? Sure there's no ethical dilemma, but people are still wagering that there's a less-than-significant chance of dying when flying.
Brandon Richardson
Pedestrians! Who the fuck would buy a car programmed to kill them?
Lucas James
still, the risk of a self driving car vs a mobile phone is still enormous. They are incomparable
Colton Stewart
The car is only going to make the decision based on the most immediate issue. It's not going to be in a situation where it has all this stuff to "contemplate." Self driving cars are already way past this kind of nonsense, there are too many redundant safety features to have a car randomly have no brakes.
Brandon Reyes
The ai is programmed to follow the rules of the road. So those people must be jay walking for this choice to happen. In this case, run the fuckers over.
Aiden Ward
Why dont they just make rails for these smart cars.
Problem solved
Hunter Morris
First 3 lines are the only ones that matter.
>I think the quiz itself is bait This. I think it's just a way of gathering peoples' opinions.
Caleb Collins
>trains Those have existed for hundreds of years and they have been mostly phased out as personal transport in the US.
so what if it existed before the earth? If its effective then why not
Juan Allen
This. I ran over jaywalkers every time but when it came down to a brick wall or legal pedestrians I still ran over the pedos. See my results here: . Also it said I favor fit people which is great, even though I didn't look a bit at who the people were.
Jackson Lee
it's not effective because you can't have a dense grid of railways within a city.
Elijah White
You're the dumbass here. A car making an active decision to kill its passengers is not a risk. It's something that would be coded into it. "If a pedestrian comes into my path of travel then I will die" is not even close to "welllll the plane could fail".
Brandon Russell
thats the answer. But it would be effective if we obsolete cars and just stick to trains everywhere, make it like an overpass.
Owen Butler
>A car making an active decision to kill its passengers is not a risk. It's something that would be coded into it.
The car is just going to panic brake. There will never be some "coded in" thing to make a car do a heroic maneuver killing the occupant to save others.
Matthew Wright
you missed the point of the OP
Matthew Brooks
>the problem comes when you throw the ability to steer into the problem >now you have to make on the fly decisions on where to steer
No. Remember, we're talking catastrophic failure to even get into this scenario in the first place. At this point, the computer is fried and the steering is locked up.
then is becomes a vehicle malfunction like any other.
Wyatt White
>I'm going to miss when man-operated cars are outlawed.
you can't use your language correctly, what hope have you for an automobile?
Jason Powell
So I'm guessing J.K. Rowling and Stephen King are your top two favorite racers?
Logan Collins
But pigfat autopods won't be cable of manuevers that tight
>heavy for max traction >more armor than needed for the president
Jacob Evans
>Being inside a 'self driving' 'car'
Easton Bennett
...
Jayden King
>wah my car chose to kill me
You sound like an emotional boomer. You're still dying, so what's your point?
If the chance that you die driving your own car is 0.01% per mile (made up value), and the chance you die sitting in a self-driving car is 0.0001% chance per mile, then you should still choose to ride in a self-driving car, regardless of whether it "wants" to kill you.
If cars had to kill their passengers every time this "dilemma" occurred, you can be damn sure that any company that makes vehicles will not skimp on the brakes.
Ian Scott
What if the car is wrong and it can actually save somebody but decides it can't and ends up killing people it could've saved? Are we to expect people to have superior reflexes and decision making capabilities to a computer?
If we say humans can just jump in at any time and do it better than we're just saying what's the point of a self driving car then.
Angel Richardson
i dunno what that means. but i did make an argument. the laughable grammar was the illustration. people fuck shit up randomly, robots break down predictably and reliably.
Don't be bitter guys, the robots will provide you a better life. trust them.
Aaron Butler
Humans can make ethical decisions better than a computer because ethics are a purely human construct based on the unreal machinations of individual minds actively convincing and passively being convinced of which conclusions are "the best". There is no logic to it. Any ethical argument has a foundation in an unprovable fact, which must be entered by a human, who might disagree with everyone else.
It's better for us to not bother and keep living things out of roadways if they aren't operating vehicles. Ethics aside, they can cause some serious property damage no matter what they are. A fucking squirrel can pop your tire if you have shit luck.
Xavier Bailey
irobot saved the nigger instead of a little white girl fuck robots
Ryan Carter
>Implying autonomous car systems will be able to explicitly recognize pedestrians instead of "biological obstructions"
>almost 100% chance crashing into a barrier would be bad >Reasonable probability pedestrians on road are deer or something
If you have autonomous cars killing their occupants every-time a deer steps on the road then they're not going to be very successful.
Besides self-driving cars don't need to be perfect and never cause accidents, just better then the average shitty human driver.
Luke Gonzalez
If you didnt get what he meant then you're literally retarded
>but i did make an argument. same shit, you're still a fucking reditor and should go back to your hug box
Jaxon White
Does America not have single-track lanes? Autonomous cars just wouldn't work where I live.
Who the fuck wants their car to be driven by a computer anyway? I like driving.
Christopher Bell
>Who the fuck wants their car to be driven by a computer anyway? libtards
Josiah Wright
if a nation is advanced enough to have nothing but self driving cars with zero human control, then it's advanced enough to segregate high speed automobiles and pedestrians
even antiquated rail systems make some attempt to block off active crossings
the system of roads is broken. our cities are just scaled up designs meant for foot traffic and foot traffic naturally mingles with all other traffic because of that, as grid paths were scaled up for wagons and chariots.
when we're rich enough to fix that, we're rich enough to get rid of human operated vehicles. retrofitting existing metros with building to building links is easy enough.
>crosswalk? what crosswalk? skybridge nigga
Joshua Lewis
>Implying a human can make a sound moral judgement in less then a second
>Implying the car wouldn't already have started braking and reducing the energy of the impact from seconds before the human driver even recognized the problem
Jackson Johnson
What about a self-driving car that can drive REALLY well?
Like in an instant, brake, turn full left lock, hit rear brakes and off front ones to do an emergency 180, direct the now backwards car into the barrier.
You'd have a much better chance at saving everyone that way.
Luke Brown
implying companies will make their cars kill the owners. wow that sounds like a great way to make money..
Chase Wilson
>program your car to do hektik skids ECU tuning is gonna get a whole lot more interesting with self driving cars
Tyler Lee
>missing the point of OP fuckwit
Samuel Moore
>Implying a human can make a sound moral judgement in less then a second we can do it instantly.
Mason Williams
why is everyone ignoring the obvious? its easier to move a 200 lb human than it is to move a 5000lb car so the pedestrians should be the ones to die if they dont see the car coming
Logan Reed
Is it that crazy?
I mean seriously, a computer can drive as well or better than even the best human drivers.
The computer could do a very precise course to increase all odds of saving as many people as possible, regardless of how hektic the skids could be. I mean I could imagine a car doing what looks like out-of-control driving but be doing everything possible to reduce all odds of harming people.
Nathaniel King
milennials who are 100% forced to drive on over-capacity roads full of untrained morons or rely on inconvenient, constantly changing bus schedules that might get you within a 30 minute walk of your actual destination and get you there hours early
some yuro nations don't seem to care as much because their cities aren't all designed for cars
>walk from home depot to walmart in murica: half mile >travel to home to market: 1 hour bus ride or 45 minute mad dash through traffic, buses arrive every 2 hours >walk from penishire's pub and grill to aunt malliards boiled sheep bladder emporium in the UK: ten feet >travel to home from market: 20 minute train ride, trains arrive every 20 or so minutes
Dylan Watson
There are no brakes on this car, they failed catastrophically.
Hunter Lee
The car can't steer in any way to force a skid or to drive the car against the side rails? Forcing the car against a side rail would also help slow it down.
Jonathan Gomez
>car was not designed with multiple braking systems, leading up to not one but two purely mechanically actuated emergency systems that are open for both human and computer control (they can only be disengaged by a human, the servo the forces the lever down is connected to a freeweheel) >those systems are not maintained with the utmost care, going through thorough inspections, lubrications and parts replacement procedures that carry so much liability that a mechanic that worked on a failed system may receive a life sentence
0/10 chink shit would not trust life with
Nolan Davis
Oh, and it can't engine brake?
Connor Murphy
no compression stroke because it's an EV, just mild friction the program that forcibly slows the output shafts when not accelerating failed and they're spinning freely
manual brakes are the only option
Sebastian Gomez
You could put the electric engine in reverse. You can do that with even simple pulse width modulation.
Carson Barnes
>the program that forcibly slows the output shafts when not accelerating failed and they're spinning freely if it's that fucked there's very little chance the program could be capable of choosing "kill pedestrians" versus "kill occupants"
Xavier Torres
summon the forces of arabian driftgods and barrel roll over the pedestrian crossing to safety
Oliver Ross
or pull the fucking ebrake
the working vehicles behind you will stop accordingly, and slow if your hand is even near the brake, while authorities will be placed on alert and then alerted
Lincoln Barnes
Do the brakes in the car not work?
Wyatt Taylor
>Steering has locked up. I'm going to assume no emergency brakes...
Then the entire problem is moot now because the passengers can not influence the outcome of the event, only the pedestrians can.
Noah Cook
Why does the car have so much speed it cant brake right before pedestrian pass? That something that shouldnt happen ever to begin with.
Sebastian Cooper
one of them could be future hitler.
Adam Russell
ok according to description the brakes has failed so braking is imppossible to begin with but went with passenger safety every time trying to safe healthy and usefull people. Since its an AI that does all the murdering I dont have to sweat even if it goes trough a crowd of pregnant kids with doctor certificate.
Colton Cooper
>People will be so obsessed with le trolley problems that a good technology that will save countless lives won't be adopted until it's beyond perfect which will be never.
Christian Powell
Agree. I don't think there should ever be logic programmed into the car to try and compute which of multiple paths to take, there is no way you could ever program for anomalous driving conditions. The car can only same on the brakes and maintain current path, it's up to the driver to override the stearing at that point.
Jace Adams
This, fuck buying a car that chooses to kill you instead of the dipshit that stepped out in front of you