Mazda RX pricing

>gtr: 109k
>nsx: 156k
RX9: base? ~100k. if it's hybrid bullshit? 150k

someone screencap this

The RC-F had no ground swell, no fan boys, no name power.

Apples to oranges.

Thread

>2 in ground clearance
why

muh ayrohdienahmiks

concept car user
if there arent two or three ridiculous things about it then youre doing something wrong

>Best handling car

Also no manual transmission

Why the fuck does the front end look do similar to the aston martin vulcan car them fucking headlights

FD existed in a different era.
FD's competition in the US was the Corvette and worldwide faced up with the C2 964, Z32 and Supra. This was why people tolerated it's reliability problems and cost.

The primary competition of the RX8 was the Honda Prelude/Acura CL and tangentally the Z33, S2000, and MR2/Celica/tC. All cars which blew the 8 out of the fucking universe in terms of reliability.

What Mazda seemed to forget while designing the 8 and the assorted surrounding cars like the 3, 6, and CX cars was what was worth skimping on and what was worth splurging on to make the *best* car for each segment. This element of understanding competition and buyers is intriguing with Mazda because they remain the only company to understand what makes the Miata perform and sell well. Shame they lost their touch with all other cars.

The RC is a different segment entirely, It's also why the ATS-V wasn't a high seller. Mazda can not guarantee the reliability or support to fight at this level.
The CX-9 with probably also fail for the same reason this "70k" RX9 will.

Mazda should shove the BRZ and Z's dick up their own asses with the RX9, make a better, lighter, faster sports car while people will still buy one. So fucking what if it steps on the Miata's toes.

>probably gonna be released around 2020
Great. Just in time for when I graduate with my double degree. 150k starting.

The RX-9 will probably be a high-end sports car to compete the the corvette and maybe the GTR. It'll definitely have a hybrid system to make up for emissions and fuel economy.

>Mazda is going "upmarket" to reach more "affluent" customers.
This is what most people expected of them, to follow what Volvo is doing.
And for Volvo it's working. Their 3rd quarter this year has nearly doubled from $1.26billion to $2.09 billion or something around there. They're selling more cars at a higher cost thanks to making better, more expensive cars and marketing them as such.

Mazda's place is likely to try and be like the "Japanese BMW".
They can probably pull it off as well, as they've never had much of a reputation for being "cheap", except for when the first gen Mazda3s and Protege were rusting.

They can't compete by price as a smaller automaker. They can do what they've been leaning towards, which is making higher quality cars that are only $1k-$3k more than their competitors yet about as good or better as the higher

The CX-9 starts at $31.5k.
The next RX will surely not be less than $38k and will likely be closer to $60k.

Rofl. No it doesn't.

Maybe "handles" better in being easier, but the FD has a chassis that's twice as stiff, and it turns far better. They S2000 can't take corners nearly as fast as an FD, on top of being slower in a straight line.

Are you being sarcastic? The RC-F is fucking awful.

Mazda isn't stupid enough to try and sell a car at $100k+

When they made the Cosmo, it was half or a third the cost of the Jaguars and such that it was largely superior to.

When they made the RX-7, it was half the cost of the Porsche 911 Turbo which it was also faster than. It beat virtually everything around Willow Springs when Car & Driver reviewed it, cars much more expensive.
The Even the Corvette ZR1, which was "only" about 10 or 15 grand more expensive, it completely trashed.

Their engineers said that's their goal this time around as well, to offer a car that's better than the Cayman for cheaper.

However.. now days you have the GT350R and Camaro ZL1 which are not only shitting on the Cayman for cheaper, but supercars as well, while having 4 seats.
If the Cayman is still their target, this car is going to be defeated before it even comes out in 2020 since the GT350R and Camaro ZL1 are already shitting on the $85k Cayman GT-4 for $25,000 less.

But whatever. People don't just buy cars for power. If they can make a 2+2 that handles as well as a Cayman GTS, turns better, is more fun, but costs less than a base model Cayman, that's worth buying simply for how sexy and fun it'll likely be and having extra small seats in the back.

I just hope they don't pull a Honda or Nissan and turn it into some auto only benchracing supercar.

FDs were never benchracing mobiles because all of their advantages were tied to handling

Never ever.jpg
The Gtr is affordable tho

It was.

When new, it was a 911 Turbo 997 competitor that was $60,000, the same price as a lowly BMW M3 E92.

Then Nissan got cocky.

Must be an american thing. Here they cost as much as a normal 911 since forever.

It'll be priced like a Cayman since that's what'll it be competing with, although I'm inclined to think the top trim will be somewhat cheaper than the GT4.

Is it going to be a stick or is it going to be an auto? I'm sure it'll be available in a stick if they keep it in the $60k area but if it does end up being in the $120k halo car area it'll probably be auto only.

I fucking hope it won't be auto-only. Given how the ND turned out though, it seems Mazda knows their fanbase pretty well.

Has the hybrid system thing been confirmed? I want my braps pure and untainted (and swappable into old FBs)

They've specifically said they won't do another RX if it means making it a hybrid.

Oh shit, no hybrid? Holy fuck thank god, I was actually pretty sure it was already set because of regulations.
>inb4 an engine reflash magically appears that changes a decently performing emissions compliant car into a fucking brute.

>the GTR is now €99K

I don't recall it releasing at that price, I'm pretty sure it didn't. Yea I remember speaking about this 911-killer that was way cheaper. I can't find its 2007 retail price in euro so here is this chart instead

Word on the street is Mazda has done some serious rotary black magic on this one. They say they've solved the issue with the spark plug indentation but haven't said how which has led to some speculation they're using HCCI in place of a spark plug. The internal geometries of the engine will also be absurdly optimized compared to the 13b and renesis since they now have much more advanced computer simulation technology for the Wankel.

Mazda knows the fanbase for their cheaper cars well - there hasn't been a halo Mazda in a long time.

So long as it's manual, hybrid would be great.

Okay I found some French articles from 2010 that list the GTR at €84,250.
>automobile-sportive.com/guide/nissan/gtr.php

Nissan jacked up the prices, was right

The mk1 r35 gtr was 90k€...

No, it was not .

They actually said they may be forced to do electrification for the next gen, 2025+ model.

The regulations aren't as tight as people make them out to be. A rotary can definitely be made to meet pre 2020 regulations.

Yeah I've heard of that one. It really makes me wonder.

Remember those patents that have been going around are from 2011/2012. 4-5 years old. They'll be 7-9 years old by the time the car comes out.

It could be HCCI but I doubt it. You still need a spark plug to get started even with that, but it's well known that hole there is responsible for a significant loss in power, fuel economy, and increases emissions.

So it must be laser ignition, right...? Where there is a lens to have near flush to the housing. But that's not even used in racing, so it can't be, can it?

So probably not that either, so what is it?

It could simply be a special spark plug design that's mostly flat but otherwise fairly traditional.

I know some other things that have changed is that the rotor design and seals are completely new. The renesis largely had the same seal designs as the 13b and Mazda engineers said that they were responsible for oil metering not being consistent and burning more oil than was needed and some causes of reliability issues.

The FD was basically a Halo car. $58k in today's money. It was VERY successful. Sold like over 15k of them in 3 years in the US alone.

People buy sports cars less, especially 2 seaters. I hope they can make it good, and a 2+2, and repeat the FD's success.

It was common knowledge that the GT-R prices have greatly inflated year after year. It's like double what it launched at. Who the hell is trying to argue otherwise?

Taxes and prices are different in different countries.

So Eunos Cosmo 2: electric boogaloo? would be bretty cool if they get 4 seats in there

This has little to do with Nissan jacking up the prices of the GT-R in the US and in an European country (France - I could go to nissan.de, nissan.es or even nissan.co.uk and check the MSRP back in 2007 but I can't be arsed).

My point was that it was not an "american thing" as stated.

40 to 70 thousand dollar car, honestly i doubt people would pay any more for a mass produced mazda sports car.

Hell they can prob charge even more if they go start making luxury super cars like pagani or something.

I want an RX9 without a shitty engine.

But it is. 20k in almost a decade. Now compare it to anything else it competes with

>They actually said they may be forced to do electrification for the next gen, 2025+ model.
Specifically they said they want to do a stand alone rotary first to prove it isn't just being carried by hybridization which is a pretty sensible approach.

>It could be HCCI but I doubt it. You still need a spark plug to get started even with that
HCCI would be a silver bullet for them on emissions and SkyActiv uses it so I fully expect the car will use it in some form but to what extent is up for speculation. I suspect if it was just a flat sparkplug they would have just said it. I can't see a reason to be secretive about your proprietary spark plug. I really get the feeling that Mazda has a huge innovation up their sleeve on this one. I can't see any other reason for them to build a new halo car after all these years if not to generate hype for their new technology that's destined for econoboxes.

>But that's not even used in racing, so it can't be, can it?
That's my feelings on it. I expect laser ignition will show up in F1 before we see it in any street car.

The FD had 2+2 models but the rear seats were the smallest ever.
I'm hoping they can make it a 2+2 with rear seats similar to a 911 or FR-S.

I'd fucking love to see a coupe with proper rear seats and 3 rotor Cosmo.
They should really not market them as Mazda. Just call it an "RX".
RX-7 (2 rotor turbo)
RX-Cosmo (3 rotor parallel-hybrid)
If they really get this engine working well, they could have like a 0.8l rotary series-hybrid that competes with the Model 3 but with lighter weight and yet a 500+ mile range, bringing back the RX-3 or RX-4.

With a rotary hybrid, you can get an engine package that's smaller than an i4 that puts out way more power at better economy. It's a no brainer, if they can just make it reliable and build the engines fast and cheaply enough.

>Specifically they said they want to do a stand alone rotary first to prove it isn't just being carried by hybridization which is a pretty sensible approach.
Yeah, desu, a hybrid would be better.
Could give another 150lb-ft of torque off idle, and another 75 or so hp on the top end, while just adding 200lb or so. Given how light they made the ND, they could probably still make a hybrid that's 2800lb while packing 425+ hp.
I don't see how they can beat the Corvette without an electric motor added.

I just hope it's not much later than 2025 that the hybrid rotary comes and there isn't this long ass gap like with the RX-8.

>HCCI would be a silver bullet for them on emissions and SkyActiv uses
Skyactiv2 is to use it. Skyactiv does not.

Either way, it still requires a sparkplug as HCCI only operates in a narrow RPM range. I read a paper that seemed to show that HCCI operates on a much wider range for rotaries, though.

HCCI has had low RPM limits. Rotaries like to rev high...

> I really get the feeling that Mazda has a huge innovation up their sleeve on this one
Yeah, I guess. It's weird that they've said a few times that they've eliminated that gap for the spark plug, but not said how.

LASER IGNITION BLAM BLAM

Marketers will jizz their pants being tasked with marketing a laser powered doritos car.

LASERS
youtube.com/watch?v=651UYYxrfh0

>Remember how expensive this limited edition trim that was never offered in the US was?
>Well that means it's impossible that Mazda would ever sell the base model of a completely different vehicle in a different country for any less than that
I mean, I agree that it's going to be $70k+, but that's the most fucked up logic I've ever seen. It's also not completely outside the realm of possibility that the base model starts at $45k.

>RX-8 was CARB PZEV certified
>CAFE is fleet-wide and Mazda has the most fuel efficient lineup in the world by a wide margin despite their lack of HEVs
There's no regulatory concerns with designing a new rotary engined vehicle.

This is Mazda.
They make miatas.
Thankfully I don't think they give a shit about benchfgts.

100k, wouldn't want mazda to lose profits and hopefully it keeps the plebs away

Shove a 20B in an RX-8.

>auto only

If it's being marketed towards the same "affluent" crowd responsible for the auto-only AMG lineup

>It's weird that they've said a few times that they've eliminated that gap for the spark plug, but not said how.
I'm honestly not sure it's worth it. If I ever get the motivation to finish my car to the point where I'm ready to put my 13B-RE in it, I'll be taking measurements to flush fit a surface gap plug and see what happens. My guess is that I'll just be that one guy that brags about what oil he uses.

only the series 6 was sold in america and they were relatively cheap around the globe compared to the series 8
the base model series 8 cost the equivalent of 90k aud adjusted for inflation

"Upmarket" doesn't suggest nearly a hundred thousand dollars when the most expensive car they currently offer starts at $31k. I wouldn't be surprised if it started at $50,000 and competed with the base Corvette, GT350, and Cayman, maybe with a balls-out trim to compete with the C7Z and GT4.

Yeah, if that's a thing I'm surprised it's not a common mod. Especially in car cars that have 4 plugs per rotor.

However, I've noticed a lot of rotary owners/tuners are super dumb. As dumb as you average Supra owner, pretty much. Or dumb as the average of Veeky Forums that think a2w intercoolers are worse than a2a because they "heat soak".

>I read a paper that seemed to show that HCCI operates on a much wider range for rotaries, though.
I'd actually be interested in reading that, I'd like to learn more about what limits them at high loads and proposed solutions. From what I can tell it's basically that there's a loss of control over the auto-ignition process resulting in a very similar phenomenon to knocking where parts of the fuel mix start to auto-ignite before others and you end up with standing waves in the cylinder.

Turbocharging seems to be a common proposed solution to help HCCI engines at both high and low and I saw it mentioned in an old article from right after the Vision was first shown that the RX9 might use an electric assisted turbocharger. Despite seeming like pure speculation on the part of the author based on what I'm reading a finely controllable turbo would seem to be a potential solution.

High Cwhat Compression Ignition?

>upmarket
EFINI
F
I
N
I

Homogeneous charge compression ignition.

Homogeneous as in it combusts evenly from the compression istead of

Efini was dumb. They're best off just not having Mazda badges and marketing it as an "RX" like the GT-R is just "GT-R" with no Nissan badges.

etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=wright1419010366&disposition=inline

I think this as it.
At least through computer modeling it seemed to show it could operate from 2000rpm to 4000pm fine while piston engines have been in the 1700-3200 range.

>RX9 might use an electric assisted turbocharger. Despite seeming like pure speculation on the part of the author
I've seen no evidence of that, though it'd make sense to use an electric hybrid turbocharger whether it's HCCI or not.

>stretched miata
>pigfat

> Or dumb as the average of Veeky Forums that think a2w intercoolers are worse than a2a because they "heat soak".

for most purposes they are, because they do (^:

>I've seen no evidence of that
This was the article and I was wrong it didn't specifically say the RX9 might have one, just that Mazda is supposedly working on it.

motoring.com.au/new-mazda-rx-secrets-revealed-100186/

Mazda is going to get BTFO by Toyota

Nice Z5, what bodykit is that?

>Ugly hybrid BMW that nobody asked for
I'm not going to deny that it will be fast, or that probably more people would buy it than the RX-9, but it's going to be competing with the NSX more than anything else.

>modern BMW reliability and incompetence mixed with modern Toyota styling

Yeah, this will go well

Every time I read about this car, it sounds less like an RX-7, and more like a Cosmo.

270-300HP NA trim for 40k
330-370HP turbo trim for 60k

I'd be alright with that

Supra is confirmed to cost more than the Corvette.

It's going to be a fat 3500lb+ GT car and inferior to a Corvette in every way.

Even if the next RX is slower than a Stingray as well, at least it'll handle well and be fun to drive like a Cayman for less money and maybe 2 more seats, so has that going for it.

Only thing that truly worries me about the next RX is just how godly the GT350R and the Camaro ZL1 are for $60k. That's the real competition.

Well, obviously you're clueless.

The FD was like $32k in 1992 which is $58k today, which was half the cost of the 911 Turbo that it was faster than at the time, and about $10k (almost $20k today) cheaper than the Corvette ZR1 which it was also faster than.

The Cosmo was even more expensive, but still far cheaper than the Jaguars of the day that it was considered superior to by all the reviews of the time.

They still sold like 10k last gen Cosmos in Japan. You can get them for like 8-20k and import them. I'm thinking of it but I'd need to learn some nipponaise.

There's like 0 chance they will offer NA and turbo trims.

>60k
they dont actually sell for this at a dealership, try 80k

Regardless, it's still the MSRP. Demand just happens to be much higher.

If nobody can buy the car for MSRP, does MSRP even matter?

Say Mazda says MSRP is $5. But every single one sells for 70k+, you wouldn't say it's a $5 car, would you?

The value of something is whatever someone will pay for it.

Nice straw man.

Why not just admit you have no argument and lost instead of making yourself look even more retarded?

>If nobody can
Not true, just somewhat difficult

If somebody buys a 2k shitbox for 2 million does that raise the shitbox's worth to 2 million? No

There is literally no way the RX-9 is going to faster than its competition like the FD was. The 911 is stupid fast, the Corvette is stupid fast, the GT-R is stupid fast, the NSX is pretty fast, even fucking Mustangs and Camaros are stupidly fast.

If they try to make a faster car, they will lose and nobody will want to spend money on a 100K+ Mazda. So hopefully they don't try to go for records and just make something fun and sexy.

My argument is that spouting the MSRP when it's pretty much impossible to but the car for that price is stupid and doesn't mean anything.

Also it's not really a straw man. Whether the MSRP is 60k or $5 the point still stands.

That would be an outlier

It means everything. It means the manufacturer was able to make the car for about $50k, which it was sold to dealers for that amount. The dealer recommended them to charge $61k, but the dealers could get more so they can sell it for more.

It's not the dealer's fault that the demand is higher than the rate the manufacturer can supply them at.

It's basic economics which you're too stupid to understand and just using a strawman to defend your shitty favorite cars.

You're probably correct and that's the sad truth. Not with electrification, at least.

Now if Mazda made a car like the P1 or i8 but cheaper, it could be done.
As a hybrid it could have 450+hp while still being under 3000lb, reliable, and good fuel economy. Such a car would cost more than a Stingray, probably, though, just like the Supra is going to.

More like $55,000 today, which puts it right in the middle of the American "supercar killer" market with the Mustang GT350 ($48,000), Corvette ($55,500), and Camaro ZL1 ($61,000).

It also puts it toward the low end of the European sport luxury market, along with the Z4 ($50,000), Cayman and Boxster ($52,500), and F-Type ($61,000).

Unfortunately Japan no longer has a premium sportscar market, so there's not really anything to compare to there. But cars are judged by their competitors, so whatever Mazda does they'll be competing directly with either the Americans or the Germans. I could see it go either way. The RX-7 was legendary for its performance, but it also featured a well appointed interior and impressive day to day livability.

>inb4 apex seal memery

Mazda was historically always compared to European by reviewers, and not really other Japanese manufacturers, for like almost half a century now.

Not really. They've typically been compared to American and Japanese shitboxes. The Miata was a revitalization of the concept of the British roadster, but its competitors were the 240SX, MR2, and sporty Hondas rather than the Boxster. By the time the Z3 and TT came around, the Miata was considered the S2000's baby brother, which was the real competitor for those cars. The RX-7 competed more with the Supra and NSX than anything else, although there were favorable comparisons to the Corvette and 911 as well.

Pretty much every review compared the FD to the 911 Turbo which it was superior to, on top of being superior to nearly everything else in 1992.

yea for sure, talk to us when it happens user

HAHA Funny goi

I don't think you guys realize the trade deficit involved in the Japanese and US markets in the 80's and 90's. It was much like the situation with China now.

>a seal-eating, oil drinking rice box
>superior to a 911
How's life in your parallel universe m8

Japcrap fanbois are delusional everyone knowsbtha

Idk what's it like being 15 and unable to read magazines from the early 90s?

This has been the most interesting thread on Veeky Forums in awhile.

Should I expect FD prices to rise or fall when this is released? I have no interest in the new RX but have been looking for an FD for a few years now.