Alright Veeky Forums, let's settle this.
Is *****Top Tier Le trademark**** fuel worth it?
My current opinion is yes. I mean why would a group of manufacturers take the effort to spend money on fuel research and all the other costs of introducing an initiative to promote higher quality fuels? I don't think they did just as a way to jew people harder.
Other urls found in this thread:
consumerreports.org
en.wikipedia.org
costco.com
consumerreports.org
twitter.com
The only difference is the octane rating.
They are forced by the law to have the same cleaning agents in each type of petrol.
If your car can't adjust boost/ignition timing based on what octane fuel it has then it's just a meme.
>They are forced by the law to have the same cleaning agents in each type of petrol.
That is false. The law only requires 5 mg/l detergent. Top Tier has 20 mg/l.
This. The Canadian government went after Shell and other companies a decade or so ago for lying about their lower octane gasolines not having detergents and trying to get people to by fuel they didn't need and could potentially damage their vehicle. It's the law here at least.
Top tier is helpful in cleaning intake valves but nothing else.
However since detergents only work when the fuel is still unburned, it makes no difference inside the combustion chamber or exhaust. If your car is direct injection it is literally useless unless it's high compression
>direct injection it is literally useless
False. Top Tier fuel can help keep injectors clean.
>The only difference is the octane rating.
>They are forced by the law to have the same cleaning agents in each type of petrol.
False twice. You should stop making things up.
In the USA, for detergents the EPA only mandates a minimum amount and not a nominal amount. Furthermore, Top Tier gas also has other quality standards such as the max amount of metallic additives that can be present, the max amount of sulfur that is present, the max total ethanol present, etcetera. So the high sulfur less refined fuels can go to the stations that are not top tier such as sam's club. Costco did their own testing well before AAA / Consumer Reports 2016 Top Tier gas study report. Costco determined that 5X. With that much, it's like they are adding a 1/6 bottle of Techron in each full tank (18 gal).
Detergent aside, I like that top tier gasoline has other requirements regulating its quality.
Confirmed for shill.
Yup, this. Although shell gives me the best mileage. Take that as you will. I'll add gumout regane before a long trip once or twice a year. To date my 08 outback gets above sticker mpg.
Consumer Reports / AAA:2016 Test Study:
consumerreports.org
Top Tier Gasoline:
en.wikipedia.org
"""EPA detergent levels meet emissions standards but not engine longevity standards. Automakers said they were seeing persistent problems such as clogged fuel injectors, and contaminated combustion chambers, resulting in higher emissions and lower fuel economy.
By 2002, the automakers said their repair records suggested that the EPA standard for detergents wasn't high enough, but the EPA was not responsive when they asked them to increase the standards. These concerns were heightened by plans to introduce a new generation of vehicles that would meet the EPA’s “Tier Two” environmental standards for reduced emissions. These vehicles require higher levels of detergents to avoid reduced performance. Cars with direct injection technology (GDI) have been especially prone to carbon buildup, and car makers recommend fuels with higher detergent levels to combat the problem. At first GDI was mainly available in high-end autos, but it is now being used in mid-range cars and economy cars, such as the Hyundai Sonata, Ford Focus and Hyundai Accent.
In 2004 representatives of BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota got together to specify what makes a good fuel. Using recommendations from the Worldwide Fuel Charter, a global committee of automakers and engine manufacturers, they established a proprietary standard for a class of gasoline called "TOP TIER" Detergent Gasoline The new standard required increased levels of detergents, and restricted metallic content. Volkswagen/Audi joined the group of automakers in 2007. Gas brands can participate and get a TOP TIER license if they meet certain standards, which includes performance tests for intake valve and combustion chamber deposits, fuel injector fouling, and intake valve sticking."""
>I'll add gumout regane before a long trip once or twice a year.
Is there a need for that if you use Costco (Kirkland Signature) gasoline? Costco says they put FIVE times the EPA required minimum amount of detergent in their gas.
costco.com
consumerreports.org
Ill just seafoam it and maybe run 500ml of water through before an oil change every 1-2years. Total cost 15$ and would clean more then just intake valves.
Car now a days used GDi engine
We don't need that.
>ITT: Reddit users who don't know that petrol is a natural degreaser, which means that grotty intake valves are a myth.
Do the detergents have any negative effects, like not burning the same as gasoline? I thought most of Veeky Forums was all about pure gas.
All I know is I hear people talk about how Chevron gas is so good but I stopped at a chevron over the weekend and it had that label stating up to 10% ethanol. I'll stick with shell
Fuck this whole thread is shit
I'm studying to be a petroleum engineer, statics and dynamics will teach you to take the octane your car was made for.
Higher octanes have detergent additives, yes, but it won't fucking matter if you're using the right octane cuz the engineer that designed that block had splatter in mind
Tldr fill up your car with the octane it's rated for
You are actually fucking retarded. What engineering school are you in? is it in your moms basement?
Read the sticker on the Shell pump too.
There are a lot of no car poorfags on here who like to be contrarian. There a lot of autists on here paranoid about getting "ripped off" as well.
Me, I buy top tier gasoline because from what I've red it seems legit, and the price difference between shitty Safeway gas and the Chevron down the street is negligible.
They're all up to 10% ethanol unless otherwise specified.
We're not talking about octane, we're talking about detergent levels
still dont understand why retards insist on calling petrol gasoline
still dont understand why retards can't figure out what a dialect is
ok man so in my dialect the word nigger is slang for plastic bag
dont agree? stop offending me and my native dialect
Are you really this mad that different people in different regions saying different words for the same thing?
have you ever disassemble a head with 200,000 km on it?
>so in my dialect the word nigger is slang for plastic bag
Hahahahahahaha
Not the guy you were talking to but damn that caught me off guard
>Do the detergents have any negative effects
Many things including gasoline have negative combustion effects. 100% "pure" (has over 100 different compounds) gasoline fails to burn. You have to contaminate gasoline with an additive named "oxygen" to have combustion. Dihydrogen Oxide is a toxin. In sufficient quantity it will snuff your life out.
someone will fall for it
>Do the detergents have any negative effects, like not burning the same as gasoline?
Detergent doesn't need to be fuel in order to have a positive net contribution to the use of gasoline in the internal combustion engine (ICE). Besides cleaning, detergent is required in order to meet EPA emissions requirements. Therefore, it is an essential ingredient even if not 100% perfect. If ICE emissions is not legal, then neither detergent nor pure gas matters because you have a failure situation.
If what you meant to say is there a limit on how much detergent can be added before its negative effects outweight its positive effects, yeah, but that situation exists for everything.
Costco seems to be the brand with the highest amount of detergent at five times the obsolete minimum value the EPA requires for its 1980's type test engine standard and old emissions standards. Emissions requirements have become far more stringent than the 1980's, but the minimum required detergent amount hasn't been updated probably due to oil lobbyists trying to keep production costs down.
Costco did its own studies long before the AAA and Consumer Reports did theirs. Presumably, the results influence Costco in picking the detergent amount to have a balance between effectiveness and cost at five times the minimum amount the EPA requires.
So, if the EPA requires 5mg/l and Top Tier requires 20 mg/l and Costco provides 25mg/l, you can determine how much better or not better it is if you add one bottle of Techron to a tank of gas. If the techron is roughly 28% PEA detergent and regane is 33% PEA detergent, you know the volume of gasoline you have and assume it is at 5mg/l. Add the volumetric weight of the bottle of techron or regane to the tank and you can calculate how many mg/l you now have of detergent in the tank.
Chances are the top tier gasoline is a more economical source of PEA detergent than buying an additive bottle.
>petrol
>Short for petroleum
>aka crude oil, something gasoline is not
>used because an oil company chose it as their trademark
Why are brits (lowcercase b) so uncivilized?
Not entirely, but close.
It's true about the adjustments, but if you run low octane it puts stress on the ignition system since it have to work overtime.
A high compression forced inducted car therefore needs higher octane for optimal usage.
I heard that certain brands mix ethanol in their gas (or rather, some still don't). Because ethanol is around 4% less potent than gasoline i think it is assumed that your mileage would increase around the same 4%. Iunno though, i aint no petroleum expert
>but if you run low octane it puts stress on the ignition system since it have to work overtime.
Holy shit, no. It's easier to ignite low octane you idiot. The point of higher octane fuels is to keep the fuel from igniting before you want it to. That's called detonation and fucks up your engine parts.
Literally one of the dumbest things I've read on this board.
Ethanol is less energy dense than gasoline. Your fuel millage is less. It's benefit is detonation resistance. The only reason it's on gas is because of bullshit regs that suck the dick of corn farmers.
>run 500ml of water through
Through what?
Which is more effective at cleaning? Adding a bottle of techron every 1000 miles for greater concentration and cleaning? Or using Top Tier gasoline all the time without ever adding a bottle?
0/10
why the valve is not polished?
it's like they want deposits to stick.
>ignition system is more stressed on low octane
nigger, an ignition system doesn't change how hot its sparks are if you decide to run mid grade instead of regular
you are retarded
Use top tier gas all the time. The detergents prevent deposits from forming, but don't remove them very well.
Through a vacuum hose and into the combustion chamber
Apparently it steam cleans the combustion chamber and valves/ports. I've never done it but it works apparently. Just don't put too much water in at once lol.
A local store dumped their Regan fuel system cleaner (PEA detergent). It was in some sort of promotional box. Each box had 3 units and a box was $1.99 each. So I bought 3 boxes. I'll switch to top tier gas and add Regane on top of that for every other tank. I'll do that until I use up three Regane bottles. Then I'll probably use a Regane bottle once per year until I run out.
I bet surface Rust forms too from the hot water.