/scg/ /edg/ Elite Citizen: Star Dangerous General 94

Ok but i do hope SC has some level of tedium and inconvenience just because it makes the world feel bigger. it's a part of what made vanilla wow good imo. also a part of what made people actually interact.

I actually posted this article on the forums

forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/310684-Elite-Dangerous-too-much-immersion-leads-to-drowning

Come watch the Dads shit there pants.

I agree 100%, nobody likes "world" of queues and teleports. But endless stretches of flying in which you are literally just going in a straight line, not even touching the controls, and you just wait, is terrible. For all the shit about wanting to be space truckers, driving is at least somewhat engaging.

That was quick. They're already replying.

>Some level

Already has that, and they applied it properly. For example, want to go to Grim Hex station? Jumping there takes maybe 20 seconds at most. 10 seconds to jump to ICC probe, 10 seconds to jump to Yela. But to actually fly to the station hidden in the asteroids? It takes a couple of minutes to fly through the asteroid belt of Yela. That's how inconvenience should be addressed in video games. Because with that large player area, you can potentially set up other systems such as hauling routes.

How dare you attract dad attention to a well written article from a fan decrying the biggest problems with the game. Now they're going to harass him into oblivion and it's your fault.

We're getting mechs, right?

Power Armor

...

>He doesn't like the game, I hope they tailor the game to us and not him

Why can't this faggot get drafted and die?

Why are these old men so afraid of human interaction and challenge?

jesus christ, is this the level of discourse on the frontier forums?
>how dare they voice dissent!

Pretty much. The forums are filled with subhumans. I don't want to ever get involved with SC's forums. From the carefully selected examples I've seen I can already tell they're subhumans too.

forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/310662-No-Atmosphere
fucking jesus

This is a form of griefing

All we have to do is put a gun on top of that mining walker.
Bam
Battle Walker/Strider/Mech.

I regularly question whether ftroop or blizzard has the more insufferable fans.
It's one thing to like eating shit, but at the same time acknowledge you're eating shit and you could be eating not shit, but right now shit is the only thing available to eat. It's an entirely other thing to be in denial about eating shit which the dads are.

>Fucking dad's saying
>He just wants an arcade style game not a simulation!
No, we want to enhance the simulation by actually having meaningful interaction with other players throughout the game to give the galaxy a better sense of being alive and giving us more options.
But these fucking idiots somehow see that "detrimental" to immersion when it would only enhance it for anyone with half a fucking brain.

One of the first responses even pointed out that Elite is really arcadey and not really a simulation.

But of course that gets lost in the echo chamber and no one wants to or is capable of arguing against it.

>Genuinely like what E:D offers
>Still think it could do with a multitude of QoL changes and improvements
>Game needs alot more options in interacting with the world and other players
>Everytime Frontier makes a good decision towards these goals its hampered because they still listen to these fucking dads on the forums
If they just gave them the finger and focused on making it a sim thats not tedious and has legitimate multiplayer elements they would be completely and utterly golden. I'm fully expecting these faggots to get Massacre and settlement assault type mission payouts nerfed because its good pay for the best thing about the game and actually requires risk for making money quickly (depending on your ship of course)
BUT NO WE CAN'T HAVE RISK AND REWARD. ACCORDING TO THESE FUCKS REPETITION AND TEDIUM SHOULD BE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE WAY TO MAKE MONEY
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>ACCORDING TO THESE FUCKS REPETITION AND TEDIUM SHOULD BE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE WAY TO MAKE MONEY
This is honestly the most disgusting thing about dads.
It makes you the epitome of a fucking complete manchild when you think your way is the only right way and should be the only one catered to; every other way should be fucked over.
If FDev never takes the risk of losing this % of their playerbase by breaking the mold these fucks keep trying to enforce we'll be stuck in a stale mold indeed. I'm holding on to the hope that The Commanders is the big step in the right direction. Its something they've always said they want to add since the beginning, its the next expansion around the corner, and the dad's are already bitching about it while so far FDev has had no response to their bitching about The Commanders.

Elite is a game with amazing potential that is let down by questionable design decisions and terrible development practices.

If I worked for Fdev it would take every ounce of self control I have to not go off on the dads, telling them to stop defending our fuckups.

Game will keep me in because all the big boy changes of the next patch are to combat and will bring alot more viable setups to the table. I'm sure forumfags are already frothing at the mouth

>Go off on the dads

If I worked at FDev I would be putting all my effort into getting these terrible decisions reversed.

If I worked at FDev I'd do BOTH
Tell them to fuck off and reverse the shit they influenced

>Both

Nah. Best thing to do would be to convince them that this is the best train of thought and keep them funding the game. Because at this point, they must be the only ones funding the game. Otherwise Frontier wouldn't be picking up other games like Roller Coaster Tycoon.

They evidently have all the funding they need from them. Get the rest of it from the players that actually want to pick up your game when you start designing the game for people who actually like fun.

Let all come full circle. The dads have funded FDev to this point and then some so far for E:D since they also have put out Planet Coaster
Planet Coaster has exploded as being the new and improved RCT, especially with big streamers like DansGaming getting really into it which is free advertisement to thousands. That has to be making them good dosh right now and isn't really a game that needs anything else added to it with how seamless the integration of the Steam Workshop is with it.
Focus efforts on E:D away from dads now with those dollarydoos.

is there any current non-nerfed way to grind imperial ranks right now?
I've been trying stacked massacres for imperial factions but stacking takes forever now

Stacked Massacres is easily the fastest way still, with the occasional settlement generator or skimmer destruction.
Does stacking take forever? It went by relatively fast to me but combat is the only way I get lost in this game so my perspective may be a bit warped. Could depend on ship or how modded out you are.

I just can't seem to get the missions to show up. It doesn't help that depending on the type of station it can take up to a minute to open the menu and flip from open to solo

Since I'm done ranting I have a question for SC folks.
As an E:D player SC is the thing I've always kept on an eye as the ship on the horizon I jump to if E:D never evolves from its current state when SC releases or is at least near completed. Right now I prefer E:D's flight model and combat pace but SC's is still very solid and is shaping to have more actual game behind it so that would be the main deal breaker to me.
The main question though is M+KB really as superior as people we're saying the other day? I personally use controller in E:D which works perfectly with some fast keyboard presses but from the reasons I saw M+KB seems like the way to go for SC because of how gimbals and lateral movement works. Will I need to adjust to M+KB if I want to be a serious combatant?

>I just can't seem to get the missions to show up
Thats odd, every warring system I go to usually has the factions at war offer 1-2 of them to start out and then they start offering them in droves with higher pay the more rep I get off of doing them. Could probably chalk it up to Mission Server fuckery unfortunately.

I've used a controller for SC it works ok, the controls do have a learning curve to them. I"m not sure if you will be the best pilot ever but you can be competitive.

Forty-Forth for EVE: Online

>they nerfed the trial
Explain. I was going to at least give it a whirl because how could it hurt to do so when its free.

if you want to play a fighter as a space-plane, fixed guns work and should probably work better with stick, etc, as well as flying the very large ships i imagine would be comfy with a stick

but SC is omnidirectional movement. unless you want to add several modifier keybinds to allow these movements to be possible on stick, it's not working too well for you. youre removing half of your mobility options by flying most ships with stick.

aiming wise, it's a matter of comparing a f18 flight sim with fixed guns to a FPS where aiming can be as fast as your mouse allows. gimbal mounted guns instantly move with your mouse and allow for free aiming while moving your ship seperately

TLDR, yes, m/kb user has the advantage currently unless they nerf gimbals to the point where fixed guns are the only option. and then they still have more intuitive mobility control.

On one hand I like what they're trying to do. Hopefully more players will rejoin for frigate fun and breathe some life back into it.
On the other hand as a former 2007 player with access to pretty much every ship, being limited to battlecruisers just seems too restrictive for my taste. But then I spent most of my time in a covops, or my prowler.

>Even the livery panders to the dads with the sheer amount of them available for the Cobra and ASP E
I just want an FDL body kit Frontier. You made a good bit of the Vulture one look good which I wasn't expecting so I want to see what you could do with an FDL.

when does eve online gameplay become a MMO and not this weird space point and click RTS i've been playing for a few hours?

you can F2P indefinitely but many skills are limited now, like you can only pilot ships of the race your clone is now

It's not a real nerf.
The trial now is pretty much just a free account that's a bit more limited than the trial used to be. Though at the same time not really because there is no way anyone would have the SP to properly fly the best ships the old trial would allow in 2 weeks.

I went to a station where the imperial faction is in control, and here they're handing massacres out like candy. go figure

Reduced skill training speed, trial account skill list is significantly smaller, level cap on most skills
Basically, trial accounts can't train out of a shit income

The old trial account only lasted 27 days, but you could earn enough ISK to buy a PLEX during that
It takes a longer than that with the new system, significantly longer if you aren't]t killing yourself inside
But you aren't limited to 27 days, and your limited skill list has most of the essential PvP skills available
So the new trial system gimps players harder, but is more player friendly

When you start doing shit with other people instead of doing tutorials and mining by yourself.

As soon as you start taking advantage of the chat box

The skill training being a harsher timegate than the economy is kind of weird, but
> this weird space point and click RTS i've been playing for a few hours?
no idea where you've gotten that impression, you certainly haven't been a Fleet Commander

I may be an entitled millennial but I feel like Lifetime pass holders should get a monthly skin stipend.

so it doesnt get any better than clicking things and waiting for stats and %'s to sort out results?

i see how it could get interesting with large fleet combat... This "gameplay" tho

It would depend on what you consider lifetime. Because Horizons being a Season Pass didn't start out as being a Season Pass it was an entire edition of the game that even existing players originally had to buy into to access.
Eventually it obviously changed but like I said it would depend on which point in time FDev would consider life time it'd probably be the poor sods who actually paid $60 again

To be honest, most of the game is shooting the shit with corp mates in IRC while barely focusing on the game in the background, while you have something else to do on the other monitor.

Pretty much this. It's not exactly engaging, but damn is it comfy.

This why I will never buy Elite: Egg Timer in Space.

Did Coriolis fuck up the stats or is those resistances real. I can't imagine the difference between a 4D and 5D is 60 integrity and 17.5% of resistance to everything. Especially since its a Size 4 vs. Size 5

Forgot pic

Those are 100% fucked up stats. You're not getting resistances like that without Engineer tuning.

That's the wrong line of thinking that led to angers, anger that lead to becoming a dad.

Take Idris filed with npc, everybody fucking want it and it have been confirmed so player can teleport into a npc body without the hassle of an actual queue,

what you want is convenience that don't look stupid, like needing to do 10 trucking missions to amass money rather than 1000 because VISION

>10 trucking missions to amass money

and then what? Normal players reach their goals quickly and hardcore players reach them in a flash and thats it. Nothing else to do. No accomplishments when everyone is driving around in an idris in month 2. Some level of difficulty and time consuming tasks is a must.

achievements have to be progressive. high end items must take MONTHS for them to be worth something.

I'm just saying if you make things too quick and easy it becomes more boring not less.

Nobody wants dad level shit. But if you make things TOO easy to obtain thats even more boring.

Somebody misplaced a decimal point. Class 4D HRPs have 2% resistance, not 20.

20% resists would require a godly roll on a grade 5 heavy duty mod in both primary and secondary effects.

Don't confuse progression and mindless grind.
You want to do trucking until you are satisfied with the gameplay and wish to do something else.
Change 10 by whatever you think fit but if at the 10th route you only do it because you are forced to grind, it mean the balance is fucked up

Again quickness isn't the problem
Waiting 10 hours to load cargo or to gather a crew is realistic but pointless. The only things you actually want is to have fun doing that so you can dismiss the 5 minutes cheat and think fondly of the hours of what was interesting.
The only reason to keep travel time to a minimum for example is to profit of the on-board stuff (and we will love npc doing the boring stuff for us)

I agree of course but there's easy and there's fake difficulty
ex : you want an epic mission to get a super-weapon, but you don't want it to be only available on night of red full-moon with a drop rate of 1/100th just because it's technically difficult.

people are going to create their own grind, if x activity makes the most money, they are going to do it repetitively in order to be competent unless everything gives the same amount of money/rewards in which case people WILL grind the easiest activity

> people are going to create their own grind, if x activity makes the most money, they are going to do it repetitively in order to be competent unless everything gives the same amount of money/rewards in which case people WILL grind the easiest activity

And so what ? You would make the easiest activity take 100h to make enough money ? That's the thinking at the cause of E:D vision.
You don't want it to take a month to get high-end items, you want the player to have so much fun that they don't even want to speed rush to "the only thing fun".

You only have things take time if it's directly correlated to how much you appreciate it (you can't have a nice animation seating into your fighter if a click teleport you into it, but it mustn't take too long as well)

It's not my place to tell CiG their job but what you describe is why you make economy fluctuate and 80% NPC controlled. You want the player having fun going to the Market Center with a suit, immediately identify what make money or lead him where he want and do it.

> pict unrelated

>100h
Enough money to what? Enough money to get low tier items? no its too much. mid tier equipment maybe. Godlike equipment not a chance. The progression needs to escalate.

> you want the player to have so much fun that they don't even want to speed rush to "the only thing fun"

thats just a dream that can only be accomplished if the highest tier activities are less rewarding than lower tier ones

there are plenty of games that offer instant gratification, an mmo isnt.

Dog Fighting is fun?
Shooting the space mans isn't fun?
Finding cool shit isn't fun?
Running an org isn't fun?

Fuck off back to Elite, Dad. Chris Roberts said there wont be progression or a +1 enchanted space ship to own.

I am going to give you 1 chance to reword your post without exaggerating. When are capable of replying in a rational manner then shot me another message.

fuck off, Prof. Dad.

>Chris Roberts said there wont be progression or a +1 enchanted space ship to own.
Anyone who thinks this is bad is a fucktard
Progression was a mistake, it's nothing but trash.
having "Make numbers and bars get bigger" as your primary motivator is the cancer that killed MMORPGs
The draw of an MMO should be playing with other people. Having adventures and doing things in a big wide world with a bunch of other people you can make friends with and/or kill. Grinding to 'get to the endgame' is a pointless waste of content. There shouldn't be a grind and an endgame, there should just be a fucking game.

kek

>Progression was a mistake, it's nothing but trash.

Nice opinion you got there. I guess it can be backed up by the enormous amount of no grind mmos out there such as.....

arbitrary number for rhetoric purpose, it's surprising but none of us can instantly imagine a working balance.
ex :
A Hull-A doing legit trucking would take 1000h gathering money for an Idris, but 50h doing high-risk contraband flawlessly
Meanwhile a Hull-E doing legit trucking would take 50h but could be hill suited to contraband (can't pass a small jump gate)

> thats just a dream that can only be accomplished if the highest tier activities are less rewarding than lower tier ones

Let me raise your hope then, SC don't have tier leveling, a player in an Idris or Javelin don't have the same sort of fun than one in a fighter or an Prospector, and a prospector don't have the same priority with an Orion.
Big ship don't have to be less rewarding, they just have to cost more to operate.

MMO never offer "instant gratification" because most are paid with a subscription, they literally live of any time you waste and they keep you addicted by your emotional attachment to the stuff you spend hours grinding for (And there's a lot of power-leveling to hide that it's the same shit every level).
"instant gratification" is a pejorative buzz word for cheap phone game who have to be catchy.

You have been poisoned for too long is you think grind is the only way to play a game, Star Citizen is popular because it promise to stray away from that.

Just a reminder

>having "Make numbers and bars get bigger" as your primary motivator is the cancer that killed MMORPGs

One of my biggest complaints about Fallout 3. Once they made the move to a FPS engine why do they need the XP bar? Why not make the setting and world really interesting? Stalker and Metro 2033/Last Light were good games that didn't have a stupid pen and paper advancement system unnecessarily strapped to them.

but you do realize a lot of people enjoy the leveling system in the fallout games

thus the reason it is still being implemented

What about CIG? Need same pic about them.

well then you do as you want

if you want to just go and have fun with multiple fun activities thats great but dont expect to get the same rewards as the player whose end game is being efficient and amassing wealth by doing whichever activity is more profitable

because there WILL be high end highly sought after things wether it is an lti scythe or building the highest reputation with a certain faction

>Glassdoor

Okay, that system had a place in the older games (1&2). Because it wasn't the player pointing the gun and pulling the trigger I get that. But, lets talk about #4, the one where the neutered the leveling system where some people complained that skills were removed entirely replaced by perks. You think that they could have just removed all of that from the game and make it about what type of equipment and weapons you were packing instead of skills and perks?

Fallout 3 =/= Fallout 4

From what we know there is only so much you can do and earn with a single operator ship. Eventually, you will have to get something intended for a crew and the game will change for you at that point.

How the fuck did this become about grinding. original discussion was about how if an activity doesn't take a decent amount of time to complete it gets boring and feels meaningless. You don't need any fucking xp bars for that.

yes they could have but people like perks and progression

even cod and minecraft have them because thats what most people want and it is a fantastic way to keep people playing your game

...

COD baked them in after a while and so did Minecraft. I remember when Minecraft was just lego simulator. Minecraft still has creative mode! Call of Duty used to be just about shooting the mans, also no XP bullshit in the single player and if you go off Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw opinion that's all that matters.

You certainly won't take on a Vaandul fleet with an Aurora (Operation Pitchfork will be fun), but you won't take on an Idris, even filled with npc, with a Super-hornet no matter how high-tier equipment you put on it.

Same as what I said for Trucking reputation building isn't a problem as long as it's fun all along and not DADS' VSION.
You shouldn't be forced to grind rep point until you can at least "play right", you should be getting reputation with a faction because it's fun to.

Said another way, a game shouldn't start getting good at the endgame.

Because meaningful = grind in the eyes of a dad.
You have Korean grinder on one side and you have players with a family who can't play 10h per day to grind for a Javelin, even wasting 1 hour to physically gather crews is pointless if you can teleport at will into npc crews and get the same result

This is my current fleet, what else should I buy while the sale is on guys?

Friends to crew them for you.

Please stop using words that you don't understand. It's embarrassing. If you feel like putting other people down and making yourself look like some super 'hardcore' gamer, at least come up with something interesting.

Let's go over what "Dad" means, in these threads, which unfortunately have to be shared with E:D posters.

"Dad" is the equivalent of an older, slower-paced gamer who play Elite: Dangerous. They are the type of people who like "grind". They want to take 1 hour to travel from A to B, and they vote against shortcuts, as demonstrated in the last community poll.

A "Dad" does not hate grind. Do you understand?

The next time you call someone "Dad" for wanting to skip something that is meaningless, tedious, or just plain shit, please be aware that you may well get ignored because you are an idiot.

Thank you for reading this public service announcement.

This is your last chance to buy a Merchantman for $250, it'll be hitting a pretty significant price hike after this.

Get rid of the shitty Auroras, one of the Cutlasses and maybe something else and get a bulk hauler like a Hull C or the happy merchant.