Everyone is evil

How does literally anyone that's picked up a history book buy the idea that the Nazis were evil? Just look at who they were fighting.

>A monarchy that had acquired literally the biggest empire to ever exist in terms of land area. A country that had spent the previous two centuries colonizing, and subjugating everyone they could from the Zulus to the Indians in order to acquire wealth.

>A Republic that had grown powerful off of enslaving blacks for centuries, and by exterminating the residual native population on their continent in order to gain access to the continents natural resources. Manifest destiny is no different then Lebensraum.

>The Soviet Union

Its easy for all of those countries to talk about how bad Hitlers imperial, and genocidal ambitions were. Ignoring of course the simple fact that those countries were all in a position to oppose Hitler because they finished their genocide and imperialism a generation or more beforehand. In my opinion Hitler was just copying the blueprint that the other powers had already perfected. and therefore he was a copycat who was no more or less evil than the established powers opposing him.

So Veeky Forums is there any argument to be made that the Allies had any moral high ground over the Third Reich? or was WW2 simply just a repeat of WW1 in the sense that the entire war was just to contain Germany and keep it from dominating continental Europe at the expense of the Soviets, English, and french?

Nonody thinks the nazis were evil for starting the most destructive war of all time.

They think they're evil for killing G-d's chosen people.

Because they spent the first part of the war deliberately trying to kill civilians in London for no reason and then continued doing it the second half of the war for no reason.

Look dude, I'm not saying there isn't winners bias involved, but the Nazis really made it pretty darn easy to hate them.

Hitler did it in Western Europe. He broke the rules of the club.

the British declared war on Germany what did they think would happen? Also the British telling other countries not to kill weaker peoples is hilarious and the height of hypocrisy.

That's debatable.

Not all nazi soldiers are bad some are just order to do heinous things to other people.

Well they were committing genocide and trying to take over sovereign nations and impose authoritarian rule. Nobody's great, nobody was even really good, but they were far worse

It's because of the Nazi's hierarchy of race. When everyone who isn't biologically associated with the German-Nordic people are considered subhumans, well, history isn't going to look back kindly upon that.

Every great empire was created off subjugation of other people, no doubt. However, the Nazi's didn't necessarily kill people for any sort of territorial gain, or even for that much geopolitical gain. They were relatively respected and feared before they started killing everyone.

They killed to "purify" the world. So the superior German people could rule.

The Racial cleansing was not unique to the Nazis. How do you think the Europeans justified the colonization of Africa, the genocide of Australian, and american Aborigines, and the subjugation of India etc? The Nazis views on race were simply to justify to themselves the horror of killing millions in order to give themselves necessary living space in order to compete with the other great powers. Thats the point of my post. everything the Nazis have done has been done before, and more effectively by the societies that won the war against the Nazis. Stopping the Germans has never been about morals its been about money, and politics. Or else why would the same powers have conspired to stop Germany in the first world war when they weren't hell bent on killing the Jews, and Slavs.

They had space. Jews had been living there for centuries without having to be removed. You are making the assumption that Jews are similar to the natives in the sense they were holding independent land from Germany which could have been used by the state. Jews were a PART of the German identity, not an independent group from the nation as a whole. For example, if black south africans began exterminating the white portion of the population it isn't to free up land its the cleanse the population of what they perceive to be a lesser race. It seems to me you are confusing the difference between imperialist expansionism and ethnic cleansing of a population.

it's true that the other powers were not paragons of virtue. powerful arguments could be made against each of them.

but damn did nazis work to outdo them all. the SU comes close but doesn't quite manage the suicidally urgent malevolence.

The reason why the Nazis are so broadly condemned is precisely because they shine the spotlight on the evil quality of western civilization, the hollow nature of enlightenment society, and the ultimate worthlessness of humanity. It's important for western governments to be able to point to the Nazis and say look, we may be godless banally evil bureaucratic machine tyranny that manipulates or provides the ground for the manipulation of every aspect of your life and extract every cent we can out of its miserable course cradle to grave, but at least we're not Hitler, right?

Like you only need to look at the state of Israel, an ethnic supremacist state of westerners which invaded a bunch of random gay bastards in the middle east took their land and is currently in the process of a decades long ethnic cleansing of said gay bastards in the name of their ancestral right to breed all over the land, all the while shouting from the rooftops against Naziism and inveigling that any body in the United States government who doesn't want to keep up the endless flow of genocidebucks to their military is Literally Hitler, to get the point that the western civilization erects Hitler and the Nazi state as an idol of evil to make themselves look good by comparison. An objective judgment of whether they were as bad as or worse than their rival states is totally beside the point, and impossible to begin with; what matters is the reason why the comparison even occurs to us.

Its not a perfect comparison obviously. And it wasn't the Jews, but rather the Slavs who occupied the space that the Germans "needed" in order to prosper.
I disagree I don't think the Nazis outdid any of them because none of the Nazi institutions are still around today. The Soviets for instance killed people in greater numbers before during and after the war and yet Hitler is seen as the ultimate evil because Hitler lost, and his ideas were discredited whereas Stalin won, and indeed was ALLIED with the supposedly benevolent US and UK.
Well Put

your entire point in this post was about how the exterminations of Jews was no worse than systemic extermination of natives. If you want to talk about Slavs, that's a whoooole different debate. Even if you want to make this 180 with the whole slav thing, it still means you are conceeding the atrocities which were done upon the Jews and other minorities within Germany.

>I disagree I don't think the Nazis outdid any of them because none of the Nazi institutions are still around today. The Soviets for instance killed people in greater numbers before during and after the war and yet Hitler is seen as the ultimate evil because Hitler lost, and his ideas were discredited whereas Stalin won, and indeed was ALLIED with the supposedly benevolent US and UK.
nazis enabled the fuck out of soviet by first going to war with everyone else and then donating them half of europe. without them russia would have just remained europe's shitty backyard regardless of what stalin was hoping to do.

When did say that I was only talking about jews? I dont deny the atrocities the Jews and gypsies faced? Im not turning anything around. The Jews and Slavs were both persecuted within Nazi Germany for different reasons. In my post Im saying that the American enslavement of blacks, and the virtual elimination of native Americans, is no morally different than Hitler killing the Jews and enslaving the Slavs.

OP is a faggot

>taking over sovereign nations
>somehow worse than taking over centuries old tribes
eternal anglo pls

The answer might become clear if you picked up a relevant history book

since i'm all out or relevant history books. Please enlighten me on how exactly A monarchy that managed to conquer, or colonize 1/4 of the world, A totalitarian dictatorship every bit as ruthless as hitlers, and a country whos bread and butter was the enslavement of millions of people for over a hundred years are the goods guys in this conflict?

Why has the thread even moved beyond this post? The amount of ignorance on this board is appalling.

Nobody in history has clean hands but returning to the OP
>Its easy for all of those countries to talk about how bad Hitlers imperial, and genocidal ambitions were. Ignoring of course the simple fact that those countries were all in a position to oppose Hitler because they finished their genocide and imperialism a generation or more beforehand. In my opinion Hitler was just copying the blueprint that the other powers had already perfected. and therefore he was a copycat who was no more or less evil than the established powers opposing him

You acknowledge the other powers had already started to mend their ways (which they did on a scale and to an extent unmatched in history). Then you ask what is so bad about the man who, a generation into that, decided to start them right back up again, the guy who did exactly the things you say are evil exactly when the rest were trying to stop.

Whats ignorant about pointing out that the Allies were every bit as evil as the Nazis? Refute what is being said dont just come into a thread with your dick in your hands blathering on about "ignorance" or some other bullshit.

Jesus fucking christ can you assholes stop censoring 'god'?
I don't get the whole "I'm triggered because of the word 'god'" bullshit. I'm not religious and nor am I anti-religious but this fucking meme needs to stop.

If you don't want to be "triggered" on Veeky Forums then get the fuck back to whatever safe space you came from. Stop censoring god you stupid pieces of shit, there is absolutely no reason to censor it.
Good fucking GOD damn christ.
Get out of Veeky Forums you socialist communist pricks and go back to fucking /leftypol/ where you can keep masturbating to young Stalin.

The next time I see anything as stupid as "G-d" on this fucking website again I will gut your children like fish, rape your wife, beat your bedridden grandmother into the grave, and bury your sorry buttercup ass alive with asphalt.

Your argument is that the Allies' forefathers were as evil as the Nazis, unless you actually have something to say about their wartime conduct.

You sure it's the commies? Not G*d fearing folks that don't want to take the Lord's name in vain? Well, if you say so

He's referencing how ball-to-the-wall bonkers Jewish fundies spell god as g*d or g-d.

Read more, nig.

Yes Im saying that Allies Moral high ground is a high ground built entirely from generations of slaughtered innocents. The people that today in the UK and US benefit economically STILL from the actions that there ancestors carried out against native populations. Therefore if we as a society are going to claim that the Nazis are evil. Then all of the wealth that western society has accumulated is unjust, and just as morally wrong as the Nazis. A serial killer that retires is still a serial killer. Essentially a group of powers brutalized and robbed the world, and then once they'd solidified there dominance they said "OKAY now no one attack anyone because that would be morally wrong"
>Hitler litersally copys their blueprint
>OH MY GOD HITLER IS SO EVIL

I simply want everyone to admit that either the nazis did nothing wrong, or that all of the prosperity that we enjoy in the west is similarly evil.

I'm saying the Russians, British, and Americans already had there lebensraum, and therefore could afford to be slightly nicer than the Germans in 1938.

Isn't it a fairly popular position that the imperialist, genocidal etc. actions carried out by western nations that made them so rich were wrong?
People tend to understand that slavery, for example, allowed their countries to attain a lot of wealth, making their current lifestyles possible, but consider it so wrong that anybody who doesn't is basically socially crucified.

Opinions probably vary a little more on things like colonisation of Africa or elimination of "indigenous" peoples, but sympathy for the victims still doesn't seem uncommon.

>A serial killer that retires is still a serial killer
greatly preferable to an active one.

that's about it. we're all in agreement then.

Yeah, I know what you're saying, but it's cherry picking out of the period in response to judgments made on the period. They were worse than their contemporaries, and that is why people consider them evil. If you think everyone who ever happened to live in a country that ever did anything bad was evil, hang in there, puberty will be over soon.

Inst the US still active? just because were not killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the name of racial supremacy doesn't mean that were not still to this day anything more than A warmongering empire who hold more global power than the Nazis could have ever hoped. Killing is still Killing.

The difference is that I can still fly the UK flag without being assaulted. Even though just as many horrible acts have been committed under that flag as the swastika. Which simply means the victors right the history books and its as simple as that. For some reason people like to keep on pretending that their societies are so very different than the Nazi German society.

I understand that they were worse than some of there contemporaries (What is the Soviet Union?) that shouldn't stop you from realizing that, the nazis were not especially evil, and should not be viewed as something unusual or barbaric by people in our society.

>Inst the US still active? just because were not killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the name of racial supremacy doesn't mean that were not still to this day anything more than A warmongering empire who hold more global power than the Nazis could have ever hoped. Killing is still Killing.
nigga you dumb if you think all the stupid shit murrica is up to today is anything compared to the past

also doesn't exactly affect the point.

>I understand that they were worse than some of there contemporaries (What is the Soviet Union?) that shouldn't stop you from realizing that, the nazis were not especially evil, and should not be viewed as something unusual or barbaric by people in our society.

>everyone was evil
>the nazis were evil too
>so we shouldn't call them evil

OK bud

If the Nazis won and carried out a genocide against the slavs, and jews or whatever.and then x amount of years later some neighboring country started killing a bunch of people, and the nazis started a war in order to stop that neighboring country. In this scenario are the nazis the good guys?

If it's another generation separated by years of reform, why not? It's literally different people doing different things. We don't even have to imagine this scenario. Were the Germans who tore down the Berlin wall evil?

autism

is more like this

nazis do nazi shit
this goes on for generations
some nazis think maybe nazi shit isn't that amazing and stop doing it
other nazis think it is so amazing they wanna do it more
they war (though not for this reason)

which of these is more/less evil pls tell me

>A Republic that had grown powerful off of enslaving blacks for centuries
USA's real wealth comes from its huge natural resource base and immigration. They only became the world's wealthiest nation about 40-50 years after the abolition of slavery, mostly on the back of industry and finance in the north.

That's not to say that the USA are good guys though.

Fair point.

>Everyone is evil

No. Just Germanics. Germanics, be it anglos or germans are natural born genocidal racists.

Just take a look at their history.

>and here is my invisible source on this subject that has been discussed in historical science for 90 years
read a book.

>and here's my smug absolutely nothing

Poland?

I think censoring the word god is something religious. Not k*rdish censor meme started by t*rks.

How is that extra chromosome working out for ya?

>Because they spent the first part of the war deliberately trying to kill civilians in London for no reason and then continued doing it the second half of the war for no reason.

You're serious?
The US committed a literal genocide on Japanese civilians with bombing raids and it started as soon as Pearl Harbor (populated by military) was attacked
How is that any different?.

J*sus Christ user, calm down

>Implying the Allies didn't do the same
Wew lad

Specifically Jewish

The greeks and romans were plunderers and slave holders, but they are not tainted as evil.

That's some goddamn bullshit. The Germans had been doing it since the HRE. The only reason Hitler "came up" with it was for a pretext to invade other countries.

Politics is never about good vs evil. It's about who's less evil. I'd say the allies were the better. Besides the Soviet Union, Britain and Americas affect on humanity has done more positive than negative. Keep in mind that the people they "oppressed" were often simple minded low iq savages.

Also, Britains former colonies have high quality of living compared to others. They also brought with them the English language and many freedoms derived from Anglo Saxon mindset

America did not exterminate anybody. Most natives died from disease. They killed colonists in brutal ways. Often not taking prisoners. America treated Irish slaves worse than blacks. And blacks were given freedom and a standard of living not matches anywhere else in the world. Manifest destiny was also requires to civilize the west. It was inhabited by no one worth while other than dirty spaniards or something

>When everyone who isn't biologically associated with the German-Nordic people are considered subhumans, well, history isn't going to look back kindly upon that.
You're making stuff up. They never called people who weren't Nordic that.

>Le nazis wanted to conquer the world and kill anyone who wasn't the mustard race meme
Again, you're making stuff up. Or you're brainwashed.

this. nazis are hated because their motivations were new, compared to the genociders before who genocide ''for protecting their lands''

This

Caption: We, the “have-nots...”

>46 million Britons control over 40 million square kilometers of land - stolen by brute force in every part of the world! That is more than a quarter of all the inhabitable space on earth!

>86 million Germans on the other hand must earn their daily bread from 600,000 square kilometers, and should even have to ask the London plutocratic clique for permission to do that!

>We, the German “have-nots” fight for our food - and what about the British exploiter caste? They fight for dividends at the cost of the blood of the peoples - but for the last time !

>everyone is evil
>everyone has killed someone in a wrong mannner

Yeah man, the Russian Winter is so much worse than Hitler.

yes they did, My grandfather was at Waffen SS and one of the officially called every not ,,Nordic" or ,,aryan" a sub-human.

>everyone is evil
/thread