/nosg/ - Nostalrius general

evisc rank 5 crits >2.3k on a prebis rogue where as pre-scaling rank 5 would've done around 2250

who /winter/ here?

yeah they still looking for more. posted by a literally who

>rank 5
>making up numbers with no proof

>proof
mate I've played since beta and you can look up the numbers yourself, old rank 5 did 888-984

I did very conservative estimates. Hence why I didn't account for AP. And why I let the mage have 20% DR (lol). In the real world, mages don't have 20% DR, and you don't have 0 AP. But even with 0 AP and mages with 20% DR, you would still deal 95% of the pre-scaling damage.

Mages do not have 20% DR, they have about 15%. That right there would put post-scaling eviscerate as doing the same damage as pre-scaling. Throw in AP bonuses, and a gearless rogue will deal more damage with eviscerate than they would have pre-scaling.

>You know they chaged the spells base damage too right?
Got a source for that? I checked the patchnotes. I checked articles relating to the patch that were posted in mid '06. I can't find any information that even suggests that the base damage was lowered. All I can see is that the base damage is unchanged.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

good argument

>i did very conservative estimations.
>got a source for that?
Yeah fucking kill yourself retard you can't base your entire argument around shitty assumptions and then ask for proof.

Can't argue back when the person youre talking to doesn't present an argument. Is this how you win all your Veeky Forums fights?

>Salty Dogs

Is there a vanilla addon that can manage /rolls in a party/raid?

holy hell u take this topic seriously
gimme a few mins to gather ur so much needed "proof" since u lack any knowledge whatsoever urself

What assumptions? I am using actual game data.

I worked out how much damage you would deal post-scaling with a 5-combo eviscerate crit at max rank with 3 points in improved eviscerate using a character with zero attack power.

I then looked at the crits in roguecraft and reversed any damage reduction from armor.

I then found that the damage is the exact fucking same. But also, since post-scaling, the ability actually fucking scales, you would deal even more damage post-scaling than you would pre-scaling.

I am making no assumptions, here.

Better be actual proof and not more of your amazing estimates

Wow what a coincidence, I did the same thing but it did less damage like I said originally!

See why that doesn't work?

they're not estimates
you can easily look up old evisc damage and since it doesn't scale that's all it will ever deal, and if u had a rogue in 1.12 or on any vanilla server ever since with prebis gear you'd see it dealing 2.3k

gearing one up on retro-wow as we speak

Daily reminder that World of Roguecraft is fake and does not in any way apply to 1.12 WoW. Rogues are now a very balanced class and can't beat R14 Warriors naked. Because Eviscerate now scales up with attack power and does even more damage than it did originally.

agreed

the only broken class in 1.12 is spriest

Okay big mistake retard. The entire argument was that roguecraft wasn't applicable because of how evicerate was changed to scale with ap.

I don't see how you are going to find the same DR as the target you are comparing the 1.9 damagr to either.

>get btfo
>better strawman to save my ego
Kek

Lol if Rogues are so overpowered then show proof. And no World of Roguecraft doesn't count because it was filmed in 1.9 and the game we're playing is patch 1.12.

it's the damage of the spell, no DR involved. nice backpeddling bud

>3 of the four horde players are bearded nu-males

They are all as bad as each other.

>but they buffed Eviscerate!

Have you even watched the movies? The guys are literally half dead by the time he even uses Eviscerate. Also you clearly don't even know how Eviscerate works.

>when youre so butthurt you forget what patches are

>find a video showing pre scaling doing lower damage on a high armor target
>go on retrowow and evicerate a naked mage
>See it does more damage!

I just saved you the embarrassing episode and time, youre welcome

/r/inging some official blizzard forum
>private server players are criminals
posts

I never said they buffed it, please learn to read

DO NOT COUNT DAYS
DO NOT COUNT MILES
COUNT ONLY THE NUMBER OF HORDE YOU HAVE KILLED

AIMED SHOT
MULTI SHOT
THIS IS THE CRY OF YOUR RUSSIAN EARTH

web.archive.org/web/20050108153337/http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?wspell=11300 old evisc dmg

db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=11300 new evisc dmg

pic related is a crit with just pre bis gear or how much AP you got with it incase u wanna do the math urself but at this point I'm inclined to believe you're mentally retarded to some degree

Nice argument, retard.

Now do it without gear like we were talking about originally.

except I was replying to "Plus you don't know exactly how much gear or ap you would need post scaling to meet pre scaling numbers, is it t1, t2, t2.5?"

btfo newfriend

where are u lil cucks gonna reroll when grizzly clears mc and ur still leveling in tanaris with ur normie guildies talking about how ebin ur moonkin dps is gonna be

XD

i'm not a moonkin, i'm a paladin tank

So if they nerfed Eviscerate like that guy claims without posting any citation. Does that mean Rogues can't kill R14 Warriors naked anymore?

>when you're so btfo you have to use strawmans to make yourself feel better
Haha okay dude you sure "proved" me wrong, now show how much damage it does without gear like we were talking about.

I never mentioned no gear
is where u wrote it, don't get desperate

>I did the same thing but it did less damage like I said originally!
Really? Let me see what you did. Because I don't see how you could work it out any way different to mine. It's not difficult.

Between roguecraft 1 and patch 1.12, rogues had only been buffed.

So you're right. It doesn't apply to 1.12. Because rogues got even MORE powerful.

The entire point was that you could not do the things in roguecraft with 0 gear in 1.12. You are literally moving the goalposts.

>this spell does less damae without gear in 1.12, that video was taken in 1.9
>no i will prove you wrong
>see i'm wearing well itemized 1.12 gear from DM and it does more damage than it did in 1.9 without gear

Understand yet?

Also nice job using a level 58 target dummy on a funserver for your "proof".

You first, there's no way you did it right it will be easier to see.

And we're back at the "i have no proof but my feelings" stage.

>And no World of Roguecraft doesn't count because it was filmed in 1.9 and the game we're playing is patch 1.12.
So what if the patch is different? The only difference in rogue damage between the two is that eviscerate got buffed. If anything, roguecraft is even more relevant after 1.12 as it shows that even pre-buff they were overpowered.

link?

Old eviscerate deals 80 more base damage than new eviscerate.

Except that new eviscerate also scales with AP. As long as you have over 500 attack power, the scaling eviscerate will hit harder than the pre-scaling eviscerate.

no my whole goalpost from the beginning was to show what gear you needed to reach pre-scaling damage and as much I did, being a funserver or not is irrelevant since the eviscerate damage formula is the same regardless, the screenshot was just for effect since I know you don't know how to calculate the math of 800 AP

I also feel like you're having trouble conceiving that there are 2 different anons you're replying to here

warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=26540

>it's a rogue autismos argue about 10 year old game episode

>So if they nerfed Eviscerate like that guy claims without posting any citation. Does that mean Rogues can't kill R14 Warriors naked anymore?
Not at all. It's true that eviscerate was nerfed for GEARLESS players.

Without gear, the old eviscerate deals about 30 damage more than the scaling eviscerate.

When you watch roguecraft, at no point does even 100 damage make any difference.

So no. The fights could be redone in patch 1.12 and the outcome would be no different.

Consequently, however, it does mean that even if you have shitty level 40 BoE green gear, you will deal more damage with a scaling eviscerate than a non-scaling eviscerate.

Why would anyone not want to play a warrior? They are objectively the best class in the game and can tank AND dps

Warriors are pretty good in group PvP and top DPS all throughout Vanilla. Solo anything is God-awful for Warriors though. Probably the weakest solo class in the game.

mediocre at pvp

How about post some proof from your funserver?

Youre wearing DM gear, you do know how that stacks up to mc stuff right?

Sounds like old evicerate is doing more damage with 0 gear than new evicerate.
Sounds like I was completely right and youre just moving goalposts

Sounds like you're a shitposter who doesn't even play this game lol.

you're comparing 1.12 eviscerate to pre 1.12 eviscerate so of course I'm wearing 1.12 gear

Kek keep replying, you guys went through a lot of trouble to prove me right.

Should I always be using Seal of the Crusader or Seal of Command?

Or do I judge with Crusader and then use Command all the time?

>You first, there's no way you did it right it will be easier to see.
Here ya go.
>In the roguecraft video, he crit the mage for 1984. That mage probably had less than 20% damage reduction from armor.
>The top-end base damage of eviscerate (without ANY attack power modifications) is 1012. Add 15% damage from improved eviscerate and you get 1164. Add the crit damage modifier and you get 2327. Remove 20% damage from armor reduction and you are left with 1862. Pretty close to the 1984 that was dealt pre-scaling.
>Obviously, don't forget it's impossible to have 0 attack power. So you could easily deal over 1984 damage with eviscerate even after the scaling patch, even with no gear. And don't forget that the mage in the video probably didn't have 20% DR.

>And we're back at the "i have no proof but my feelings" stage.
Except if you look through the patch notes, you will see that the only changes to rogues between 1.9 and 1.12 is that rogues got buffed. I do have proof. Would you like it?

vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.12.0

Besides bugfixes, only patch 1.12.0 made any changes to rogues in the time between 1.9 and 1.12.1.

>I was trolling the entire time ha-ha!

why would a warrior ever be soloing?

>How about post some proof from your funserver?
What funserver?

I am getting all of my proof from an understanding of game mechanics.

Rank 9 evis post-1.12 can deal a top-end of 1012 damage. Multiplied by 2 for a crit and you get 2024. Add 15% from improved eviscerate and you get 2328 damage.

That means a player with 3 points in imp evis who is also debuffed to the point where he has 0 attack power, who then uses rank 9 eviscerate and crits against a target with 0 armor will deal a maximum of 2328 damage.

That is a ridiculous amount of damage for a rogue with 0 attack power. If you then account for not having 0 attack power (because even ungeared rogues have AP), and then account for a target with 15% DR from cloth armor, you will deal about the same damage as the crits seen in the roguecraft no gear footage.

That is my proof. No funserver needed.

>And no World of Roguecraft doesn't count because it had few clips of rogue fighting total retards and the people we're fighting have 12 years of experience
ftfy

>making assumptions about dr from a few frames of a video
>it still doesn't do as much damage
>it's impossible to have 0 ap even though the argument is about being naked which leaves you with your race's base ap

It literally says eviscerate is more potent with attack power, it does more with attack power and less without it (naked) which was the entire point that you couldn't kill people naked the same way.

No, i was literally 100% right and all you did was prove it for me. I am suspecting you of "trolling" now that you got btfo

"Proof" that isn't actually proof
Wow if it was so easy why don't you just get some proof?

YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING RETARDED. EVISCERATE WAS BUFFED IN 1.12. NOT NERFED.

db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=31016
That is the highest rank eviscerate in patch 1.12.
It deals 904-1012 damage and scales for more damage with AP.

web.archive.org/web/20050108153337/http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?wspell=11300
That is the highest rank eviscerate prior to patch 1.12.
It deals 888-984 damage and does NOT scale for more damage with AP.

Clearly eviscerate dealt significantly more damage in patch 1.12 than prior to 1.12. What is so fucking hard to understand? Where did this meme fucking start that eviscerate got nerfed? It never did. It was only ever buffed. You fucking retards.

See
Tell me how eviscerate got nerfed again. I would love to hear how 984 damage is somehow bigger than 1012.

>hurr durr I'm retarded

What a quality post!

>comparing rsnk 8 eviscerate to rank 9
Ahahahahahahahahaha

>ability gets buffed
>calls it a nerf because it has a number 9 instead of a number 8
Are you this fucking stupid?

Rank 9 was unobtainable prior to patch 1.12.

A level 60 using max-rank spells will deal more damage with eviscerate in patch 1.12 than in any patch prior to 1.12. Whether geared or naked.

I don't get it. Are you trying to say Eviscerate does less damage with gear than it says on the tooltip in 1.12 but it's bugged on private servers?

Just letting you guys know i'm tickled pink that youre still trying to prove me wrong when you already proved me right more than once. I will keep reading withy smug satisfaction however.

>this butthurt kid trying to convince himself that rogues are not as overpowered as they were in roguecraft
Face it kiddo, you picked the wrong class. Hope you like getting ganked in STV again.

Without gear I meant.

You use Command if your weapon speed is 3.6 or slower, if not, crusader

Fucking idiot

Oh man what a good day, putting private server babies in their place is amazing.

Wrong. Seal of Command proc rate is based on procs per minute not proc chance on hit. Meaning any variation in weapon speed will not affect its overall DPS.

>what is pvp

Isn't it beneficial to have a super slow high damage weapon with a speed buff? I thought Crusader was bugged on nost and didn't actually reduce damage.

as a general rule seal of command is for pvp and crusader is for pvp.

Also conc scales with attack power on nost and seal of crusader adds a fair amount. something to keep in mind.

crusader is the best

and crusader is for pve.**
oops.

you don't need anything but divine shield and your hearthstone for that

>ret pvp

>as a general rule seal of command is for pvp and crusader is for pvp

Why is that? Surely whatever one deals the most DPS would be better in both PvE and PvP.

Is there a server with a BG realm for 1.2?
Don't want to level on Kronos and get burned out before Nos is released but just want to play the game..

db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sExubgotZVf0t
Something like this is okay right?

retro wow, dummy

>paladin pvp

thanks pham

This is Vanilla, you don't need optimal cookie cutter builds to stomp randoms.

Leme kno who you are and ill look after you