90's Japan power outputs

GEs were ~275-280 hp, GTEs were ~320-325 hp.

yeah

at least they were rated the same

wat

GEs were 220hp

Triggered fatso spotted.
Go climb into you 4000lbs, 7 litre american "car" that puts down 120 at the wheels, lmao

>you expect a sub 3l burner to make more?
sure why not. an M2 makes 370 HP from 3L.

if americans are so great why people go amazing lengths to import JDM?

Same reason people go through amazing lengths to get USDM in other locales, or EUDM benzes were so popular in Japan.
Gotta drive foreign.

Just like it's 60,000 euro bucks for a Mustang GT

weebs

I hate American cars. That doesn't mean I'm a JDM faggot though.

Car weebs, tunability/large aftermarket as well as depictions in the media is the answer to your question.

USDM is cool in the UK so long as it's pre 80's or a huge truck.

In my opinion when it comes to cars, anything goes. You can like what you like so as you're enthusiastic about it and it makes you feel good. Veeky Forums like to chase lap times and bhp much like car culture in general, but it always comes down to how the car makes you feel.
If you like big displacement murican cars then good for you, so what if they get called land barges(lol canturn) . If you like the nimble low hp lightweight feel of Japanese cars then good for you, so what if they get call shit boxes.

I think pic related is the best of both worlds.

v300 aristo and supra have the same underrated 2jz gte dipshit

>same underrated 2jz gte

Nice b8

They definitely started to take a piss on the ''Gentleman's Agreement'' around the 2000s. There's just no fucking way the NSX-R, GTR V-Spec or EVO's had 280HP. Not to mention everyone and their dog tuned their JDM's to have more output

youtube.com/watch?v=zUax1Gpapys&t=13s

Mazda broke the agreement early in the 90s. Advertised the Eunos Cosmo (tri-rotor turbo) as having 300hp.

>viper
>corvette

>slow

go get the fucking noose

The gentleman's agreement had nothing to do with consumer safety or political pressure. It was a way for manufacturer's to cuck the populace and essentially save resources from continuously one upping each on the engine. Think about how much money they would save by saying "OK OK - Every other aspect of our business competition remains the same, we'll just stay on the same page when it comes to relative power production".

Done. Millions saved in R&D, Engineering, etc....

You see the same shit in motorcycles.

That is until some lone wolf (usually benz or BMW, never americans because they are fucking retards that can't get anything right) comes along to fuck their shit up. Then they are forced to edge up the performance

this

Show me a car that weights 4000lbs from the 90's

I dont think you understand the point of the agreement, see

The 1gz-fe on my Supra does 310 or so but it was advertised at 280. Also anyone else have v12 Toyota century engine in their cars? Mine is basically what people call top secret supra but mine doesn't have the body kit just the stock looks.

>V12 supra
fucking pics right now or your full of shit

"It's the oldest story in the book. He desires the one thing he can not have."

>Japanese
>Made until 91
>Top scales at 2ton

Fugg forgot pic

I think your getting those mixed up with the JDM and USDM spec supras

JDM GTE made 280hp and the USDM GTE made 320hp
but both GE's only made 220hp

It's an import btw (rhd) but I can keep the same plate in the US legally as I work for the UN the bad thing is that I only get to drive it around Christmas when I return to the US I'm actually going back next week. I'm not legally allowed to have any personal shit on my phone so this is the only pic I have on Google drive. Sorry for the wait it takes a while on mobile data and using the shitty website fucking Mook. :^)

Yeah, my bad, I got my GE figures mixed up. It was always 220.

cute

still pigfat

Veeky Forums thinks anything heavier than an Austin-Healey Sprite is pigfat.

The A80 frame has to be widened for the GZ to fit, the stock body kit no longer goes on the car. And the car can't have stock looks, seeing as it just got widened by two and a half inches.

So you don't have a stock body kit Supra with a 1GZ.

Thats a pretty nice spoiler for an MX-5, thumbnail made me think it was a Supra at first glance

>V12 Supra
Reminds me of the V12 C4 'vette I recently found out about and have been drooling over ever since

It's an rx7.

Why do people drool over v10 and v12s?

Is it the sound or what?

What kind of stupeed law is that?

It's a 90s jdm thing you wouldn't understand

Holy shit haha there isn't one intelligent argument in here it's all just anger

Friend bought this car to try and pretend like he was dagumi. Auto, non-turbo, mk3 supra. Literal biggest shit heap I've ever driven. Struggled with traction in even the mildest of corners. Sounded bad. Shifted bad. I told him he made a mistake buying it and to try and get a miata or foxbody to wrench on or hoon, He got really pissed and that was the last I ever spoke to him.

7M or 1J?

The sound is fantastic for sure. So is a power cycle every sixty or seventy-two degrees of crankshaft rotation.

What stock American cars were making 350-400 in the early 90s? Off the top of my head I can only think of the Viper which made 400. The LT1 corvette barely even made 300, and they made an abysmal 250 hp up until 1992.

No replacement for displacement

color me retarded

not him but Viper and ZR1 are all I know

that has nothing to do with cylinder count

7m

baka

Not old mate but NVH is through the fucking roof with larger displacements and four cylinders.

Not much of a drama in anything with an overlapping power stroke.

you're a moron and a literal fag

American cars were fucking garbage in the 90s and are still garbage now. America is now just catching up with turbocharging and gas mileage because they're becoming completely irrelevant. For fucks sake, the mustang just got independent rear suspension in this last gen. Have you sat in or drived any FCA vehicles? Their interior and build quality is fucking horrific.

It's pretty well documented that the 99+ higher end editions (Spirit R and such) made around 300-310hp from the factory.

Dynos have shown that as they're typically making 240+hp to the wheels when about 50hp is lost in the drivetrain.

And the Spirit Rs were good for making well over 300whp with just an ECU and tune. They had a bit larger turbos and other things over the earlier FDs.

As for the original 1993-1995 FD? They were making the advertised 255.

Yet, the FD when it came out in 1992, with its little 255hp, was faster around every track than the highest end Corvette model.

>America is now just catching up with turbocharging

But there were turbo vettes, mustangs, trucks and even vipers (done by tuning companies) in the late 80s and 90s.
youtube.com/watch?v=bqO6uZ0ZhX8

>the mustang just got independent rear suspension in this last gen.

The Terminator cobras had IRS and even without IRS the last mustang gen still mop the floor with Evos STIs and 370Zs and almost M3s. some cars make LRAs work great. look at the new Civic Type R. Live Rear Axle and crushes M2s at the ring. LRAs don't have to mean low tech or bad. id argue that Ford did LRAs better than they do IRS because they were so good at putting the power down.
>DAT ASS
ooooooh...

>Yet, the FD when it came out in 1992, with its little 255hp, was faster around every track than the highest end Corvette model.

I've only really seen them directly compared to the LT1 vettes on one track in the 90s.

The FD crushed pretty much everything in handling, and even at its stock power output, it set better lap times than the 911 turbo (the Corvette was SERIOUSLY btfo, not even close, someone please post the comparison pic)

this one? yea i already know about that one. that was the one i was talking about.

>Nissan NX 2000
what the fuck is this, why does this exist

for when you want a Sentra but it isnt sporty looking enough

Holy shit those FD specs

Literally batting out of its average in every aspect. The lateral grip of a heavier/AWD car, a better lap time than a car that costs 3x as much or more, comparable understeer to midship cars, and organic handling that nothing else can touch. Gives me a boner every time I see it.

Too bad the engine lasts 50k miles.

Just like European performance cars

Too bad you're a retard and couldn't manage to get 100k or more out of one

Too bad it's super cheap and easy to rebuild

Too bad a piston engine has already lost power that you're too cheap to get back at 50k miles

Too bad mitigating that will cost you more than an -entire- rebuild for a 13B

Too bad your engine weighs more than you do

Too bad your car will never beat cars 20 years newer than it at anything

On Willow Springs at least, it was faster than the ZR1 in 1992. And it was what, $15,000 cheaper? $25k in today's money cheaper?
And Willow Springs is far, far from a low speed tight track.

Sure, a few years later the newer ZR1 was faster, lots of mid 90s and late 90s cars were, but not the same year as the FD.

The FD really BTFO everything in America in 1992 when it came out except for true supercars like the Ferrari F40.
People like to compare it to the R34. The R34 came out in 1999. And the FD update to the Spirit R was still better, in 1999 despite being the same chassis as 7 years ago and all.

So much this. And I'm more than certain that an FD is more fun to drive than an F40 and better in seriously tight corners, too.

Ever seen an FD take on an R35 in real life? It's fucking hilarious I love it

fd takes on the c6 zr1. fuck the c4

>On Willow Springs at least, it was faster than the ZR1 in 1992.

I can only find comparisons with the LT. and LT lap times on willow.

>The FD really BTFO everything in America in 1992

The original Viper also came out in 92 and i don't think they were compared either. The Viper on Waterford Hills (which is almost like the american touge) is almost as fast as an E92 M3.

I considered the Viper a Supercar, but I guess it didn't cost much more than a 911 turbo, did it?

Kek. That's tuned though, right?

I own an FD myself.
It's... like falling in love, and over and over.
(and okay there's some heartbreak here and there, but it's worth it)

The way it corners is insane. It's not quite as good as like a Miata or Exige in the very tight corners (upping the steering ratio helps, but eh), but in ones like, well Willow Springs, god it's insane. Like you wonder how the fuck did this car pull 0.95g on the skidpad with 1992 tires? And how does it do over 1g with modern tires? Both without any downforce? And you drive it and it's just so solid, so much mechanical grip, and you just accept that it's magic.

Currently trying to buy a house and also save up for the upcoming one. :( I actually want to get a Cosmo and RX-8 as well...

>I'm more than certain that an FD is more fun to drive than an F40 and better in seriously tight corners, too.
Possibly. The F40 chassis is half as stiff. You can definitely feel the bending in it. Ferrari said bullshit about how they used the chassis as part of the suspension, but lolno, that's such a stupid bullshit excuse/philosophy.

>Kek. That's tuned though, right?
nah, the other cars were doing a wet lap or something

It's worth noting that FDs still, to this day, dominate races which have lax restrictions.

SCCA Autocross SMM/SM2, for example (but among others), where since its exception, year after year, almost 90% of the top 3 finishers were FDs. Lots of them only 350hp, even, beating out 500hp+ 911s, Corvettes, and so on.
They still dominated even at a time when the rules were heavily weighted against them, and a 13b FD had to ballast 100lb heavier than a 3.0L turbo car or the same weight as a car with a 6.0L, and the 20b ones had to have the same weight as a 8.0l piston car or 5.0l turbo.
It's just that good of a chassis an the engine is just so "unfair" in race trim.

So there's obviously something to be said for the chassis and engine. It's objective.

Damn son. That's exactly how I imagine it in my head.

I have an NA FC right now and I love it, but it understeers pretty badly (when it's not gripping awesomely). I'm planning on importing an FD in the spring. I'm afraid that it will be too much of a jump, and I haven't learned to control a drift on anything but gravel yet because this thing understeers so bad with convertible shocks in.

I was gonna ask how you felt about getting one if you were in my situation but I'm just gonna get one, I fucking love rotaries and I love the FD

Fucking this. Mazda really made something special, something objective that isn't overrated like the R34 or Supra

Did we meme too much with the gtr? People are now unironically saying the corvette is slow.

Ah. I've heard of that. You can definitely tune your suspension and do some mods to fix that.

My only mods on my FD suspension are koni yellows, no rollbars. It's very easy to get mild neutral steer into corners. (also easy to throttle lift oversteer or lose control in the rain if shitty tires) The stock suspension tune was nice on them.

>I was gonna ask how you felt about getting one if you were in my situation but I'm just gonna get one, I fucking love rotaries and I love the FD
I could say that I think their value might drop with the new one coming out?
I can see a lot of people selling theirs to afford the down payment. It'll probably be like a 48k-65k car.
At the moment, they've been going up. Like 20-30% more than 11 years ago when I bought mine.

But idk. If you pay 3k more than it ends up being worth at some other point in time if they do actually drop a bit, I'm not sure that's a big deal. You don't buy cars as an investment, you buy them as fun. And the FD is one of the most fun, thrilling cars ever made, so what's it matter?
I've driven lots of other cars that have around that same 5 second 0-60, and the difference in fun is night and day.
Just the way the ___meters and dash looks (besides it being hard plastic around it, been thinking of refinishing mine piano black or something), the sound of the turbos spinning, the sound of the engine with a good exhaust (not a fucking 3.5" shitcan), the backfires, the way you can feel the rear wheels under your ass, the front wheels in your hands and pedals, the surge of the turbo, the balance.
I hung out with a group of car guys. S2000, Mustangs, DSMs, highly modified Neons (this was 10 years ago and they were popular then), Miatas. My lightly modified FD was the clear favorite, but no one else had the balls to own one pretty much.
It's got the whole grab-the-steering-wheel-tight-or-it'll-rip-it-from-your-hands thing going on, too, but I like that.

I actually have a set of coilovers that came with the car, but they're in hella rough shape. All but one are blown, and the front left one is actually loose inside the shock, like the cartridge is cracked or something. I should also put my strut bar back one, since the FC doesn't like body roll in the front. I know why it's oversteering, it's just really strange to have a RWD car do it so overtly. I have DTSS eliminator bushings to help, too.

Anyway...

Price is less of a concern for me, being Canadian, because I can just import one for 12 grand rather than paying 20-30 for a clean LHD one.

Interesting you want to do that kind of interior work. That's the first thing I thought when I saw the FD's interior. Something like the trim on the facelifted RX8's interior would be cool.

My concern was mainly getting a legendary car when maybe I'm not "ready" for it. I'm not talking about maintenance--my first car was an old Jag and I learned a ton--but I feel like I'm cheating by jumping directly to an FD. However, it's the logical choice. After driving the FC I cannot go back to anything heavy or front-heavy.

You don't run any rollbars? Interesting. Are you actually doing touge runs sideways over bumps where that would be beneficial, or do you just like the neutral feeling?

Usually a front rollbar alone increases understeer, but there are cases where this isn't true.

I don't know much about FCs.

Tbh you have to worry about rust in Canada, too. FDs weren't nearly as bad with rust with other Mazdas at the time, but if you have salted roads it's still a concern isn't it? Might have to do some work to protect the underbody.

>You don't run any rollbars? Interesting. Are you actually doing touge runs sideways over bumps where that would be beneficial, or do you just like the neutral feeling?
Well it has the stock sway bars, of course. A larger rear sway bar would probably help on the FC.

And sorry I meant strut bars. I don't have those. A front strut helps turn in under breaking but... I don't know, I'm just disciplined and I feel like it'll make me more liable to not break as smoothly or at the right time. Like it'd give me a false sense of security over the very Newtonian feeling stock handling.

I'd do it if I could put on a rear strut as well to balance it out, but I was daily driving it and a rear strut makes the trunk space even worse. I'd probably need a larger front sway as well?
That's the thing with suspension mods and tuning; it makes a chain reaction when the factory suspension tune was good and just needed stiffer springs and a slight lowering.

And fuck I meant anti-roll bars when I said that which I was confusing for struts. Been up too long. I didn't mean a roll cage.

The sound of it mostly. Also power output, torque and I just got a thing for xbox huge engines

It increases understeer, usually, but the macpherson struts leave a lot of room for corner roll, which in the FC makes it steer to the outside of a corner. Huge difference with and without a strut tower bar. And I was a little weirded out thinking that you pulled your swaybars, haha. I understand now though.

I live in Vancouver so we hardly see any salt. I'll definitely do an asphalt coating when I get one, just for piece of mind.

FWIW a lot of FDs come with a stock strut bar on the front in Japan. I agree though that the stock suspension setup is great and just needs to be firmed up. I think Bilstein HDs with lowering springs would be perfect, though you just can't beat coilovers for adjustability.

Oh my god, I must be tired. I was thinking it would be funny if I fucked up and typed "piece" instead of "peace" lol

I don't run anti-roll bars on my FD either, just coilovers. FDs like a softer suspension setup: rx7club.com/suspension-wheels-tires-brakes-20/howard-colemans-fd-chassis-setup-723617/

>americans because they are fucking retards that can't get anything right
Explain the currently horsepower wars then. American manufacturers are building 650-700hp monsters, less than decade from when the best they made only had 500hp (GT500) or 505hp (Z06). Those are 150hp gains for both GM and Ford, while Mopar went from the 425hp 6.1 Hemi to it's 707hp Hellcat. Also, Tesla rips every single German manufacturer a new one in terms of acceleration.

At the same time, the Germans are downsizing and making much less of an improvement. The M5 only picked up 60hp, the E63 only picked up 50hp (or 90 in S trim), and the base RS6 actually makes less power than the last generation. That is, unless you pay Audi to add a ridiculous amount of money to add 25hp over the previous generation. Both Audi and BMW went from a badass V10 to a twinturbo V8, and Mercedes heavily downsized it's own V8.

Once the Americans move to turbo's, it's all over.

>3000GT
>3rd place lap time
>best slalom

I still love you, you qt fatty

Holy shit I didn't know the FD was so fast.

I thought it was just a faster Miata, I didn't know it could make the R34/NSX-R its bitch.

I've noticed that flashing and swapping turbos and internals dramatically decreases an engine's life. Like a 500+hp 6g72 is going to last about 50-60k or a supercharged 1uz could last about 120k before absolutely shitting itself.
Somehow amg gets away with tuning a sohc 24 valve m113 into pumping out 500+hp with a stroker kit and a supercharger and the thing runs like a charm for 200-300k.
Explain this?

> I own an FD myself
> Which is why I'm shilling so hard for it
Kekerony

Well they have anti-roll bars (aka sway bars), stock. I meant a strut bar.

>I thought it was just a faster Miata
This is just an Veeky Forums meme.
It's like calling the Ford GT just a faster Mustang.
The RX-7 was 3 times the price of the Miata and shared no parts in common with it.

BNR32 RB26 made close to 320hp stock

you want dismal keep in mind a 2L 1991 Nissan Silvia made the same horsepower as a 1991 5.0 Foxbody Mustang.

The viper has a 7L v10 and only 400 hp

New Japanese cars suck as well, they are boring, at least toyota is, which is sad

What is torque and a smooth powerband?

>Once the Americans move to turbo's, it's all over.
Aren't the 700hp monster engines all supercharged? Supers and turbos are the same shit, power-wise. Turbo just saves on gas when you aren't driving like a mad cunt.

Turbo can make way more power.

Explain, I'm genuinely curious. To get more power out of a supercharger, you could just change the pulley ratios of the drive belt and make it spin faster.

Supercharges can be clutched so they don't rob fuel at low RPM's. Supercharged Toyota's and Nissan's do this, I don't know why American cars don't.

Yeah, but you can push it higher with bigger turbine and more boost.